the silence here is both deafening and demoralizing

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    Whoa there, Mark47n and JanS, nowhere did I say that people arguing here weren’t doing anything. There was nothing “high-handed” about my response and I’m unsure about why both of you (who I agree with most of the time) reacted so furiously to me. My response was to the OP who took lack of engagement on the board as a sign of lack of engagement in the world. My response was that I’m tired of arguing with people. And I am. I’m tired of attempts to discuss devolving into insult matches. I simply want to live in the world and call my representatives and fight for what and who I believe in. I wasn’t attacking either of you and I’m not sure why you attacked me. You’ve certainly made me feel that I’ve made the right decision in withdrawing from discussions here, when people with whom I usually agree insult me.



    Melissa.. if we don’t talk about what is happening.. how are we going to get the kind of groundswell movement that we need to get the kinds of numbers that will actually create change?

    I have been writing to my elected representatives for 50+ years now.. as well as calling their switchboards.. and without a whole lot of company the best result i get is a form letter :(

    We need to be talking .. as a community.. about the actual issues that affect us all…

    As we speak the Senate is crafting a Health care bill behind closed doors. and plan to float it on the floor of the Senate without any public committee meetings or public comment.

    their goal is not health care.. it’s to craft a bill they can talk their members into passing.

    this is not a good thing.. and yet most of America still thinks that their elected representatives are more concerned about the content of bills than the politics of wins…

    if we don’t talk about this how will they figure it out?

    sorry.. tired.. rambling.. and too tired to fix it



    also sorry i didn’t see your post before posting.. though i wouldn’t have changed the content i would have noted that it is too easy to read attitude into posts that isn’t there



    As JoB notes, It’s easy to read unintended attitude. I generally solve his issue by writing, reading from other perspective and seeing if I’m really conveying my message in the manner that I intended. If not I edit. That said, I have no problem striking sparks. Im my response, Melissa, I intended to raise your hackles.

    You implied, very clearly, that you were above the fray and you only deigned to descend to point out that you’re above it. It seems that wasn’t your intent and if it wasn’t then I apologize and suggest that you edit before posting to be sure that you’re saying what you want to say.

    I will say that jabbing sharp sticks at the likes of CD and Betty034957883094830984 amuses me. I hope that you continue to agree with me in spite of my occasional disagreeable nature.



    thank god for our occasionally disagreeable natures.. raising those hackles makes people pay attention..
    but. i have to take issue with you. while it may be true that you and Jan read Melissa’s remarks as a bit condescending… and it is possible that lots of other people did too … she says she didn’t write them with that intent.

    As a writer, i long ago gave up trying to be responsible for what other people saw in my writing that i didn’t intend to put there… if i didn’t i would have been driven crazy by the picture painted of me by too many WSB readers on both sides of the political aisle ;-)



    JoB, You can certainly take issue but the remarks were condescending whether or not they were intended that way. I appreciate that Melissa didn’t intend it that way and I’ve certainly had remarks be misinterpreted and I said as much. I also said that it’s an issue of editing and considering your audience. As a writer, if you choose to not consider your audience then you making a grave mistake. Imagine if we never considered out audience, we’d never be able to communicate! We consider our audience when we communicate with children, at out places of business and when we’re talking with our friends over too many beers – well, maybe too little considering there. To not consider ones audience means misinterpretation, misunderstanding and leading to this very thing that were discussing here.



    Melissa…and that’s the problem with forums in general. Misunderstanding what was written. It certainly did sound like a bit of castigation, at least to me. I had a discussion with a friend about the lack of political posts on here, and the thought occurred that maybe those who usually comment on here are burned out by the constant , everyday onslaught of things we think are a danger to our citizens (well, except the ultra rich), on our country, the constitution being ignored, and the prez being given a pass on just about every mistake, wrong doing, lie, etc. that comes out of the WH, every day, more and more. It’s hard to take.

    If I insulted, apologies.



    mark47n … i strive for clarity and pride myself on my use of the english language…

    LOL.. at least i do so on my good days. On my bad i am lucky to find the words for those things you wear on your face so you can see ;-)

    however… when a poem written about a ride on the back of a motorcycle is read as powerful and empowering by women and as sexually demeaning by men.. i suspect somehow that clarity is not enough…

    Every time we read something that someone else has written we bring our experience and personal prejudices to the table .. we really can’t help that.

    You’re not wrong that her remarks could have been read as condescending. She’s not wrong that she didn’t see them that way. Nor am i wrong to point out that our own personal experiences temper how we understand what we read.

    i was simply lucky to have a very innocent poem i wrote as a young woman about a ride on the back of a motorcycle “misinterpreted” by two very different polarizing audiences .. it was a lesson well worth learning.

    the funny thing was.. that when i sat down and analyzed the poem from the two opposing viewpoints i could see why each reacted the way they did…

    i have always considered the ear that the reader uses to read my work one of the greatest gifts every given to a struggling writer. in spite of what i am sure many a WSB reader thinks.. it has kept me from taking myself too seriously ;-)




    i am not saying this to criticize you in any way..

    i think we are incredibly privileged to be able to get on with our lives in spite of what is currently going along politically…

    and personally so very aware of how fragile that privilege is…

    my experience tells me that no amount of political activism will affect that fragility… only public opinion will… and i believe to change that we must talk to one another



    Are you kidding me ?
    You and Jan S. who literally live on this blog. have systematically had every contributor with an opposing ( ie. Conservative ) opinion tossed off the WS blog and your wondering why it is so quiet. Gee… What could it be ?

    You really need to get back to the Russia thing. Your missing today’s BREAKING NEWS :
    CNN just announced that it has Hard evidence that Jared Kushner’s favorite movie in college was ” The Hunt for Red October ”
    BAMM ! Finally some evidence.



    Well, Betty, you’re still here.

    You really grant JoB and Jan way too much power.

    Perhaps it’s because you feel…inadequate?



    it would probably surprise you to learn that no-one can get someone else tossed off this forum.. not even you.
    The only way to get “tossed” is to repeatedly violate the posting guidelines. You gotta do it to yourself…

    It would also probably surprise you more to learn that i have reported less than a handful(5) of posts in the past 8 years.. although i have read countless others that were in clear violation.

    and far from living here i seldom visit the forum any more… the conversations just aren’t what they used to be… and my health is better so i am able to be in my garden more.

    You should try it.
    There is nothing like growing your own food to remind you about what’s important and bring a smile to your face
    i am thinking you could use a smile



    Betty stop reading and listening too all that fake news…. can you say impeachment…… relaxing in The great outdoors gardening does help and a good chuckle helps too……



    waynster.. i do miss the shared chuckles



    I have only read this forum and never commented, why? Because I support the current administration and I do not wish to be berated and called a troll. I check this forum quite often and try and keep up on the discussions, and it has been very obvious to me that the name-calling comes mainly from the left.
    The regulars on here laugh among themselves and ridicule anyone with a different opinion. They are given facts, but they do not accept the facts because they come from conservative news sources. Perhaps this is why this particular forum has become more silent.



    Yes, name calling comes only from the left. We invented it.

    As to your “facts”; if they are facts they must stand on their own merit regardless of where the fact comes from. That is a defining characteristic of a FACT! As to sources for facts perhaps you should take a high school class that requires online research. You can learn what makes a credible source online and how to ensure the accuracy of information that may be suspect.

    As to your support of the current administration; I’d be ducking and covering as well. You are currently supporting a buffoon. An illiterate buffoon. A buffoon who has the support of the haters…all of the haters. Perhaps you’ve not noticed the uptick of hate crimes? I don’t really care whether or not you’re a racist but your support of a racist makes you no better.



    Yes, I’m a jerk (the strongest word I can use here). I’m really OK with that.



    mark47n There you go, making assertions that don’t hold up to scrutiny. The so-called president is not, in fact, a buffoon. A buffoon is amusing to one degree or another, and I find nothing remotely amusing in the conduct of this unstable, grandiose hustler. Even his recent comment in Israeli that he had just arrived there from the Middle East, wasn’t amusing; it was unsettling in that it wasn’t intended as a joke.
    Furthermore, the tweeter in chief is not illiterate even though his spelling is marginal and his vocabulary is just under that of a sixth grader. In addition we know he can read because when he stays on script he tends toward coherence while his spontaneous comments are typically rambling and focused primarily on his favorite topic—-himself. Again, I don’t find any of that amusing; I find it disturbing.



    Dear Betty…I am flattered…

    and I apologize. You post was in May, and here it is June 4th. I’m sorry I just read this now, as I haven’t been on the forum lately. Guess I was off crusading…

    Dear Dandelion…what you believe is what you believe. It’s your right, even when wrong.Luckily, we can all have that privilege.. Maybe you should post more, bring up discussions on what you believe, help us understand, with facts, links, etc. to back up those beliefs. My beliefs…that we all get a fair shake, that no one is lesser than the next person, and I can’t remember calling anyone names(maybe you could help by calling me out when I do – thanks). I may suggest getting an education every now and then, though.We all need that at times, even us 70 year olds. I can be quite cynical at times.

    Have a good Sunday, everyone.



    JTB…disturbing is a good word. I sometimes throw in sickening, scary, too.



    Early on, I thought this forum would be a great tool for carrying on reasonable discussions. That did not happen. Instead, it was a game of one-upmanship. Insults were the slam dunks of the game. When a young black man was murdered by a wanna-be cop, I thought the forum might provide some insight into the matter but found this had been so politicized that conservatives defended the murder of a boy. That was when I totally gave up on the idea I was going to find stimulating discussion. Mostly, people believe what they want to believe and the sheer weight of fake news and news slanted for political gain has ruined townhall style debate. This was just one more venue for venting.


    HMC Rich

    I can tell you why I hardly ever post from the conservative side anymore… I got too busy raising my family. I saw more and more polarization which I am certain I contributed to a bit at times as the last term of the former President was starting. I saw very little in compromising thought as time went by. Locally, being a political minority in Seattle, it just wasn’t worth arguing anymore. That people like Mark47n who say they have no need to play nice with Republicans shows me that their mind is made up and no amount of facts that do favor an opposing view will be considered. But since I am human I also think I can be mistaken. Many people can’t admit mistakes.

    But to generalize any group as a whole is narrow minded and silly. But It is so easy to do when you are not face to face. We have prejudices. Learning to be civil regarding those that you have opposite opinions or observations can help everyone retain some civility.

    Personally, I hold my tongue quite a bit now. I don’t have time or the energy to argue.



    i am glad to hear you are well and busy raising your family… and agree that generalizing any group as a whole is narrow minded and silly…

    but i have to disagree with your characterization of mark47n as someone whose mind is made up and will not listen to facts… what I understand Mark47n to say they won’t listen to any longer are alternative facts… that hazy reality tv space in which saying makes truth regardless of the actual facts of the matter.. where lies become reality because they agree with what you want to hear.. where beahvior you would never condone suddenly becomes acceptable because it is pepetrated by people with whom you think you have political agreement…

    If i asked you if it was ok to starve people, to deny them shelter, to withhold medical care, etc.. you would surely tell me no.

    but the policies of the current administration are doing just that…
    what i want to know is how you justify that? How do you justify paying for security at Trump Tower and for Trump’s weekend golfing jaunts at his own resorts while cutting benefit to those who rely on them to live?

    if i were a Republican i would have a tough time of that.

    As a democrat i had a tough time watching single payer eliminated from the health care reform discussion … knowing that any compromise would still be too expensive and deliver substandard results…

    i don’t know about you but i am more than weary of all of the political posturing… what i want is a world in which i feel safe walking down the street and one in which my heart is not constantly assaulted with the reality of people who literally have no place to go.

    If you can show me how current Republican polices are going to create that.. i will listen.

    but I don’t have time for all of this he said.. she said… anything that is said has equal weight regardless of the strength of the facts backing it… stuff and nonsense.

    and.. neither should you



    JTB: I stand corrected. Trump is not a buffoon. He’s a walking horror show. Trump at the Wailing wall and at the Yad Vashem, especially the note he left, made me rather ill. His treatment of our allies and general behavior was appalling. His decision to depart from the Paris Accord, placing us on the same level as Syria and Nicaragua, is unconscionable. There is nothing funny about this.

    JoB: Indeed I will not tolerate unsupportable opinion on factual matters. There are those among us that think that means that I’m close minded or that my mind is made up but that is incorrect. My mind can be changed when presented with new FACTUAL information.



    me too
    in fact.. i love to be challenged with new information… it makes me think about whether or not i have made wise decisions based on the most current and germaine data… and sometimes it leads to one of those aha moments that make us all grow

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  JoB.
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