Shoveling is NOT an obligation

[NE]

But it IS common courtesy. To your neighbors. To the postal men. The UPS men. The Firemen. The EMT. They are having a hard enough time tryng to work in this weather. Do it for your wife, your friends and ALL of West Seattle who’s wondering why YOU’RE not doing it.

If you don’t have a shovel, you can ask your neighbor.

The city isn’t going to hold your hand.

Buck up neighbor.

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[SA]

With all due respect I’d rather walk on packed snow. Many of the sidewalks that have been cleared are now frozen with run-off that makes them much more treacherous. Unless you have the salt/de-icer to put down after you clear a sidewalk I would avoid doing it altogether.

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[JenV]

I shoveled out steps and walkway yesterday when it was warm for the mailman. So far no runoff, they’re pretty bare. I tried to do the sidewalk as well, but it was too frozen and I didn’t have a flat head shovel. The packed snow is still pretty easy to walk on.

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[Anonymous]

But it is the law:

From the P-I:

“Property owners and occupants, whether business or residential, are responsible for removing snow and ice from sidewalks that abut their properties,” Department of Transportation spokesman Rick Sheridan said. “The penalty for non-compliance is $250 for the first citation and up to $500 for subsequent citations.”

Section 15.48.010 of the Seattle Municipal Code

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[NE]

With all do respect, SA, the packed down snow lends to more treacherous sheets of ice than rough sidewalks that typically have less ice. The West Seattle roads are a perfect example–they are now turning into skating rinks as a result of the packed snow.

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[SA]

I walked over a mile from my home to the Thriftway at Morgan Junction and there was one sidewalk that had been cleared (outside Walgreens at 35th and Morgan) and it was easily the most treacherous even though it was on flat ground. The hills on Morgan did not offer the same challenge and I never slipped once.

I’ve lived in the Midwest. I know the protocol. Unless people are well equipped to do a good job I’d prefer they not do anything.

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[NE]

Well, if you are throwing merit badges into the conversation: New England, 25 years, approximately 90 inches of snow a year. Somewhat familiar with the protocal.

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[KatherineL]

I’ve been clearing my steps and sidewalk daily. Even with new snow on the sidewalk, it was easier to walk because the snow wasn’t so deep. My steps and covered front porch are safer for me to walk on; I swept any slush off so there was nothing to freeze. However, my sidewalk has a steep bank next to it. When the snow melted yesterday, it ran down onto the sidewalk. That’s now ice. There isn’t any one rule fits all. You have to look at conditions and guess what’s coming next.

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[JoB]

please be careful with de-icers.

many of the de-icers on the market are not pet friendly and pet owners who are walking their dogs in the neighborhood because they can’t get to the parks have little or no experience with what that stuff can do to a dog’s paws. it literally burns them.

they do make pet friendly de-icers.. but you have to know to ask for them… and my guess is that there isn’t enough demand here to stock them regularly.

btw.. for those who don’t care about the tender paws of you neighborhood pets.. de-icers are no friend to your vegetation either… they will brown out your carefully tended perennials and grass faster than you can spread the stuff.. especially if you are spreading it regularly.

if you shovel your walkways.. use sand on top. it’s ecofriendly and does a pretty good job even when iced over… and you can spread it generously and often without nearly the cost or collatoral damage of de-icers.

i used to use kitty litter.. but kitty litters seem to have changed and i fear those little moisture absorbing particles could become frozen ball bearings too easily…

your responsibility doesn’t stop with clearing your sidewalks, you need to make them safe to walk on…

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[NE]

Great tips, JoB!

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[elikapeka]

JoB,

Yes, kitty litter works very well. I even keep a bag in my car for traction if needed, and I’ve shared it a few times the past few days. But don’t buy the newer clumping litter, get the old fashioned clay litter. You can still buy it at most stores. My husband has been laughing at me because he says it’s been my answer to everything.

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[datamuse]

We have shoveled and salted our driveway and the section of the alleyway that is part of our property every day this past week. At this point it’s mostly dry with a couple of easily visible icy spots.

We also shoveled the end of the alleyway and out into the street. This is mostly so that our car can navigate the sharp turn at the alley entrance, but if it helps other vehicles navigate the steep grade, well, we don’t have a problem with that. :)

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[JayDee]

Well, it is OK for the city not to plow streets reasoning people can get around using chains and 4x4s. However, they can write a ticket if I don’t shovel the sidewalk. Hmmm.

–

Between the 3-4 hour Metro commute, my sidewalk and walkway will remain unshoveled. I think it will be safer than an inclined ice rink, or dog-torture device.

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[JoB]

we don’t have a snow shovel.. it’s one of those things like the snow rake for the roof.. and the sorrel boots… that we just didn’t think we would need out here.

Who knew? Now hubby is talking longingly of moving south.

thank god this will pass and leave only vague memories… and by next year we will have acquired a snow shovel in a garage sale.. someone will think they will never need it again:)

elikapeka.. the store was out of the old fashioned kind and a bag of the best compromise i could find is sitting inside my kitchen door…

but maybe it could get me unstuck so i could go have the chains put on…

Arrgh! i may not be thanking you later even if i am mobile again:)

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[OlMom]

This is only semi-related but I have a comment. When I was a girl many years ago whenever it snowed as soon as we reached about age 12 it was our responsibilty to shovel the walk. Our neighbors have a teenage boy and yet dear old dad is out there shoveling while the son is sitting inside. Is this normal in society today?? Please no silly comments regarding health issues of the son.

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[Anonymous]

So it’s OK and justified to be pissed about the city not getting every street plowed, but the response to neighbors wishing they could walk by safely is too bad so sad?

I understand long hours and frustration, but to just not care doesn’t seem right. I’ve seen neighbors helping each other. I’ve seen posts from 2 different people offering their services for pay. I’ve seen a whole thread devoted to *does anyone need snow help*. Someone offered a free shovel.

The city, who although poorly planned this response, can’t just will more snowplows into existence. We do have choices about our response to the sidewalks.

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[westwoodmom]

My neighbor has his sons on the roof shoveling it, with metal shovels-isn’t that rather dangerous on a few counts, and pointless? We never did in the midwest. Albeit we lost a gutter, but it was in poor repair already.

ETA: A friend just told me the news freaked everyone out last night that their roofs would cave in. Right, happens all over the midwest.

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[Ken]

I suspect Seattle has not handed out any snow on sidewalk tickets in years if ever.

If they did, several city owned facilities would be the first to get complaints.

Seattle Housing authority and the Highpoint Homeowners association will start getting complaints called in next year since I have begged them for two years to at least formulate a plan beyond “wait till it rains”. I will wait no more.

—

Roof collapse due to snow load is a pretty rare occurrence in a single family home that is built to code unless it is a flat roof.

But in 1996 several large nearly flat roofed rv and boat storage buildings here did collapse.

I have not watched local tv news for several years. One of the reasons is the fear mongering and schmaltz that pass for journalism here and in many other large ad markets.

I can do without the daily reminder that most of my fellow citizens are as dumb as rocks. I prefer to maintain the fantasy that my neighbors are “above average”.

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[TammiWS]

Ken, it’s not a fantasy, nearly all of us are above average. :)

JT – you’re right. As with most things, community level, grass roots organization and participation is what gets stuff done. Thats one reason why neighbors in West Seattle are so awesome!

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[BG39]

When I lived in the midwest, mailmen would NOT deliver your mail if your walk wasn’t shoveled. You would get a note about why your mail wasn’t delivered

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[OlMom]

After returning from a walk – I think all of you that did not shovel your walk are slackers. Those of you that shovel only to your car and not your front walk are still slackers.

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[JoB]

OlMom..

i was wondering today why no smart group of kids wasn’t canvassing the neighborhood offering to put on chains…

i made great spending money that way once upon a time:)

as for the sidewalk.. the slick of ice on many of those shoveled walks is making walking the dogs in this neighborhood dangerous. safer to drive down to Lincoln park now that i have chains on:(

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[Peaches]

My shoveled walk is bare and dry. The packed snow on my way to Safeway is a greasy nightmare. No brainer decision for me.

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[cheese for the whine]

Talked with our neighborhood mail carrier yesterday. I asked him how his route had been and he said it was miserable. He had slipped the day previous on an unshoveled sidewalk and hurt his elbow. He mentioned that the postmaster had put a curfew for all carriers to rap up their routes and be back at the station by 5PM because carriers were getting hurt falling on unshoveled sidewalks and walkways.

If anyone thinks that a shoveled sidewalk is more dangerous than an unshoveled sidewalk, ask your mail carrier their opinion based on their everyday working experience and you might be surprised how wrong you really are.

Pick up that shovel and make someone’s work day a little easier and safer.

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[RainyDay1235]

Responsibility and Law aside….

I have to agree that the areas where people “shoveled” were by far more dangerous than those left alone. I walked a mile each way to Westwood Village twice this week, and far preferred the untouched walkways. I had to walk with my arms out to balance on the “cleared” paths.

Just saying….

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