Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Safeway/Admiral Low Emission Vehicle Parking Spots
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May 9, 2012 at 2:50 am #603189
ElectricVehicleOwnerMemberAdvice needed — should non-low emission vehicles park in these spots? what should be done if a non-Low emission vehicle (non-LEV) parks in one of these spots?
The new Safeway (Admiral) is seeking Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) certification for their new store. One of their certification credits is the LEV parking spots in the parking, which for LEV is above the building to the left/south of the entry door. The store manager told me that they plan to install an electric charging station for vehicles like mine.
West Seattlites are normally very complying, but every time I go to Safeway there are non LEVs parking in one or more of these spots. This past week, there were three SUVs and a sedan. (Yes, I checked to see if they could possibly be LEV… but were not). When the sedan pulled in, I was getting into my car and I spoke with the driver, asking did she realize that the spot was LEV — her reply “call the police on me”. WS niceness.
While not the case today, once the electric charging station is installed, if the spot is blocked (we call ICE’d – as in Internal Combustion Engine), it could mean the difference between getting home (having enough power) or having to call a tow. This has happened before at Bellevue Square, where the EV spots are often ICEd.
Thoughts?
May 9, 2012 at 3:17 am #757729
SueParticipantI haven’t seen one of those spots before. Do the spots say that they are for LEV usage only? And is it legally enforceable (like handicapped spots), or just a courtesy spot (like stores that say a spot is for expectant mothers, like I’ve seen outside some baby stores) which (I believe) are not enforceable? I am unsure of the law on that since I don’t have such a car. Personally, if I saw a spot like that, I wouldn’t park in it. That being said, I would think it is not ideal to put yourself in a situation where your charge was so low that not having that spot available means possibly not having enough power to get home – if the spot was taken with a legitimate LEV vehicle and you couldn’t use it, or if the charger was out of service for some reason, you’d have the same issue.
May 9, 2012 at 3:19 am #757730
2 Much WhineParticipantI would NEVER park there myself but until they get the charging stations I’d probably say to MYOB. You’d be better off monitoring the handicap spots for violators. If charging stations are there it makes a lot of sense to ensure you can juice up your vehicle but until then who cares? Perhaps as we create more and more charging stations you could print out some little cards reminding folks that those spaces are necessary for you to get home and leave it on their windshield. I admire your willingness to embrace electric vehicle technology and the issues that will come along with it as it becomes more mainstream.
May 9, 2012 at 3:25 am #757731
SueParticipantLooks like there IS a regulation about not parking there unless you are a LEV in the process of charging: http://tinyurl.com/ccfwzlo
May 9, 2012 at 3:30 am #757732
DBPMember. . . . her reply “call the police on me”.
Dang! The last time I tried that line, the guy said, “I AM the police. Here’s your ticket.”
May 9, 2012 at 3:35 am #757733
changingtimesMemberHahaha your awesome DBP!!!
May 9, 2012 at 5:36 am #757734
oddrealityParticipantDo you have to pay to charge your car at the charging station or is it a store courtesy??
May 9, 2012 at 6:08 am #757735
JanSParticipantI don’t recall seeing a sign there, the few times I have parked up above to get a handicapped spot. The next time someone hands you that line, do it…or at least take their license #, a picture, and report them…bet that would make them think twice when the police go aknockin’ on their door…
May 9, 2012 at 1:27 pm #757736
ElectricVehicleOwnerMemberThanks for your thoughts.
I know one electric vehicle owner in WS is taking pictures of all cars and their license tags that park in these spots. She asserts that she is compiling a letter to the Green Buildings Council to ask them to deny the certification to Safeway. Other times she sez she wants to creat a wall of shame…..I think she may be lurking on the blog, and I am hoping will see the positive comments. It’s important to note that right now these spots are marked for compact vehicles and low emissions vehicles, not exclusively EVs. Clearly a SUV does not meet either criteria. Maybe when a charging station is installed, they will get marked for EV only…….
Because EVs are relatively new, some charging stations charge a fee and some don’t. They are all designed to charge a fee eventually, as you need an authorization card to get the charging to start. Charging stations are not as widely available yet as gas stations, so you do have to plan your longer trips to make sure to can make the distance if you have an EV. Thus when a charging spot is blocked by a non EV, it can ruin your trip. Many EVs, when charging, put a note on their vehicle with how to reach them just so if another spots ICEd, another EV in need can call ya so you can come move your vehicle to let them get a priority charge.
The primary reason for my post was to see what WS-ites think would be appropriate action when these situations occur. I really wanted to call the police at this “lady’s” comment (she was driving a 10 year old green Toyota, and was a middle aged woman with gray hair), but think that would be a huge waste of police resources. However my friend’s idea of parking wall of shame sounds very interesting.
May 9, 2012 at 2:45 pm #757737
changingtimesMemberAlthough I am not the person above I’ve seen these signs and they say “Green Vehicles” in huge letters and I also drive a green Toyota, I was like yay look I get my own spot! But I didn’t park there due to my teenage daughter complaining how embarressing I am. Lol! The point is that it is a courtesy as there is no charging machines at this time. If someone was going to call the police due to this they should make there own wall of shame.
May 9, 2012 at 4:30 pm #757738
KenParticipantumm Where exactly are the ev parking spots at the Admiral Safeway?
Since the rooftop parking opened I have noticed that there are “compact car” slots that were far closer to the door than the handicapped spots and have occasionally used them since I have a problem walking.
May 9, 2012 at 4:42 pm #757739
JanSParticipantwe have to remember that many SUV drivers think they are special and rules of the road and parking do not apply to them – lol. I notice that most of the tailgaters I have encountered lately have been SUV drivers….they just want to barrel through, and you better get out of their way. Since the parking spots are not labeled for exclusive use of EV’s, I’m thinking you might have a hard time arguing when someone else parks there. (maybe they think they’re a compact SUV)
May 9, 2012 at 7:55 pm #757740
trickycooljParticipantI just want to point out that my five year old Honda Fit is an LEV (despite being filthy at the moment) and I’m fairly certain my mom’s brand new Rav4 is also an LEV. Don’t be so quick to judge by vehicle looks alone. An LEV does not have to be hybrid or electric. It is possible that people have peeled off the stickers from their windows. I have gladly used the LEV spaces at the Pinehurst Safeway when I lived in Northgate, it was much appreciated when I needed to run in quickly for one item. Now if they had EV charging stations, no I certainly wouldn’t park there.
May 9, 2012 at 8:21 pm #757741
owenParticipantI think it’s great that there are LEV spots. And this post just made me search and realize that our families newer car actually qualifies to park there.
That said, I would highly encourage LEV and EV owners not to get vindictive about the use of those spaces. A wall of shame or protesting Safeway’s LEED application would do far more harm than good.
It’s wonderful that you have made the investment in a high efficiency vehicle – don’t be snots about it.
May 9, 2012 at 10:38 pm #757742
KenParticipantLow emission vehicle (LEV) is not the same as an electric vehicle (EV)
Wherever an “Electric vehicle charging station” (EVCS?)is installed I am pretty sure it will have the appropriate signage.
The only list I can find defining LEV is from Austin TX and includes cars back to 1999 (many of the older electrics but mostly gas burners)
(Warning PDF)
http://www.austincc.edu/sustainability/documents/ACC.GreenCar.Spec.2012.pdf
The EPA rated my 1990 Ford Festive (sold elsewhere as the mazda 121)as a Low Emission Vehicle in their 1992 testings. Current vehicles far eclipse its scores… So… should I use one of the LEV slots? Probably not unless the handicapped spots are filled.
From the link posted up thread:
1. “Electric vehicle” means any vehicle that operates, either partially or exclusively, on electrical energy from an off-board source, that is stored on-board for motive purpose. “Electric vehicle” includes:
a. Any “battery electric vehicle,” defined as any vehicle that operates exclusively on electrical energy from an off-board source that is stored in the vehicle’s batteries, and produces zero tailpipe emissions or pollution when stationary or operating;
b. Any “plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV),” defined as an electric vehicle that a) contains an internal combustion engine and also allows power to be delivered to drive wheels by an electric motor; b) charges its battery primarily by connecting to the grid or other off- board electrical source; c) may additionally be able to sustain battery charge using an on-board internal-combustion- driven generator; and 4) has the ability to travel powered by electricity;
c. Any “neighborhood electric vehicle,” defined as a self-propelled, electrically powered four- wheeled motor vehicle whose speed attainable in one mile is more than 20 miles per hour and not more than 25 miles per hour and conforms to federal regulations set forth in 49 C.F.R Sec. 571.500;
d. Any “medium-speed electric vehicle,” defined as a self-propelled, electrically powered four- wheeled motor vehicle, equipped with a roll cage or crush- proof body design, whose speed attainable in one mile is more than 25 miles per hour but not more than 35 miles per hour and otherwise meets or exceeds the federal regulations set forth in 49 C.F.R. Sec. 571.500.
2. “Electric vehicle charging station” means a public parking space that is served by battery charging station equipment that has as its primary purpose the transfer of electric energy (by conductive or inductive means) to a battery or other energy storage device in an electric vehicle, and that is 1) publicly owned and publicly available (e.g., Park & Ride parking, public library parking lot, on-street parking), or 2) privately owned and publicly available (e.g., shopping center parking, non-reserved parking in multi-family parking lots).
3. “Electric vehicle parking space” means any marked parking space that identifies the use to be exclusively for the parking of an electric vehicle.
4. “Non-electric vehicle” means any motor vehicle that does not meet the definition of “electric vehicle”.
Section 4: Section 17.04.030 of the Seattle Municipal
May 10, 2012 at 1:32 am #757743
queseraMember1) I don’t park in those spots,
2) but my boyfriend goes out of his way to do so because he finds those spots incredibly pretentious (I can’t entirely disagree),
3) a “wall of shame” is going to hurt Safeway’s business. If their customers are being “shamed” they have a problem, and
4) a “wall of shame” probably wouldn’t work because I’d bet more than a few people agree with my bf that those spots are pretentious and enjoy parking there out of spite.
May 10, 2012 at 6:07 am #757744
ElectricVehicleOwnerMemberwow- what a turnaround.
To be clear — the spots are marked green vehicles and if you read futher, they are noted as low emission vehicles, with pavement signs noting compact vehicles. This was necessary to achieve the points for LEED certification. There is no direct monetary gain for Safeway to provide the green/LEV spots. Today, WS only has one public electric charging station. So those of us who chose to help this technology become visible and successful, appreciate the potential investment in such stations. I will be more inclined to shop Safeway/Admiral because of their LEED and charging station (when its installed) because it shows a desire to be more sustaiable. I cant speak for all times of every day, but my observations of the vehicles that use these spots. Relative to my comments the vehicles I was referencing could not be construed as green in any sense other than possibly their color (and only the Toyota was a green color). If it were color of the car, my blue vehicle would not qualify, even tho I consume no gasoline. The environmentally conscious drivers i know (as we have discussed this issue) would prefer green/LEV spots to be as far from the doors as possible so as to avoid competition with spots for the disabled or others who evidently think we are “pretentious” and want to be “spite(ful)”.
quesera — I dont even know where to begin – pretentious? you will have to explain that one to me. There is alot in this world that each of us can do, but dont — because we have morals and ethics. Why would you choose to be with a BF that has such flexible morals and ethics? and who boasts of such.
May 10, 2012 at 6:59 am #757745
JanSParticipantI think we’re getting confused here between the term LEV/green vehicle…and an electric vehicle. Some LEV run on gas, is that not right? Hey…I have an old 1997 car, so I’m asking.
If those spots (I’ll look the next time I’m up there) say LEV, then, as one person has already stated, maybe those cars ARE LEV, and no longer have the sticker. For the record, I have noticed SUV drivers parking anywhere they damned well please for a long time. I had no idea there would eventually be a charging station there (I’ve also been told there were to be Zipcars there, too, but they have yet to materialize).
EVO, have you complained to the store manager about cars that park there that shouldn’t, and if so, what have you been told? If not, maybe you should, and maybe the store can perhaps do something about it…bigger signs, if nothing else.
Sadly, people will do what they want ..even down to when you get to the bottom of the ramp from the roof parking there, and make a left turn towards Calif. Ave, when there’s a sign that explicitly says to not do that. People don’t care, and will break rules when it suits them better. This is, after all the “me” generation. Sigh.
May 10, 2012 at 2:02 pm #757746
AlkiKmacParticipantThe bill referred to in post #4 applies to parking area owned or controlled by certain City of Seattle departments. I don’t see where it applies to private property…such as the Safeway lot. That being said, parking a non-qualifying vehicle in the Safeway spots would not be illegal, and not sure how Safeway could enforce such a “request”. It’s up to the public to graciously comply with the request. IMO, there are better spaces closer to the upper level doors. If I had a qualifying vehicle, I’d choose other, closer spots to park in, rather than the LEV spots (espcially since chargers aren’t available).
May 10, 2012 at 4:37 pm #757747
pattileaParticipantUntil they have the charging stations, I think anyone should be able to park there. There is not charging there now, so why should you be more special then me?
May 10, 2012 at 5:07 pm #757748
JVMember1.) I am going to start making stickers that say “Electric Vehicles” or “hybrid” and market them to SUV owners.
2.) If there was a wall of shame for parking in those spots, I’d take a picture of myself and put it up there as a sense of pride!
3.) They should make those parking spots as far away as possible; then nobody would want to park there AND the owners of EVs love to walk anyway, right? Problem solved!
May 10, 2012 at 5:19 pm #757749
2 Much WhineParticipantI don’t get it. I just don’t. EVO has a friend that is “compiling a letter to the Green Buildings Council to ask them to deny the certification to Safeway.” That seems so confusing to me. Why does she care? Wouldn’t she want to embrace a store that is trying to do the right thing? It’s not Safeway’s fault that people don’t park where they are supposed to. They have allocated part of their parking for green vehicles – are they now supposed to be responsible that people buy green vehicles? Is it their responsibility to provide a parking attendant so nobody breaks the rules? Too many people worrying about what everyone else is doing. Once they actually get charging stations AND someone parks there incorrectly AND it inconveniences an electric car owner THEN worry about it. Until then, park somewhere else, shop somewhere else and/or MYOB.
I never knew so many people were so “upset” by electric vehicle owners or SUVs – apparently everyone thinks they are better than everyone else.
May 10, 2012 at 5:21 pm #757750
dbseaMemberJV, you’d take pride in that? What exactly would you be proud of?
And the comment above pointing out that “most” SUV drivers this and most SUV drivers that seems quite the generalization. I encounter obnoxious, pushy, clueless, angry, entitled drivers in all sorts of vehicles. Hardly just SUVs.
If Safeway wishes to designate spots to green or LEV or whatever vehicles that’s up to them. And, as a responsible adult, I’ll tend to honor their wishes. But of course we all see how well many fellow adults do when it comes to the honor system in general.
May 10, 2012 at 5:51 pm #757751
JVMemberHumor dbsea, humor!
Actually, I would park in the EV spot, then hide inside my SUV and take pictures of the angry, disgusted faces of people who felt they had been robbed of their special little parking spots!
I’m not sure what I’d accomplish by filling a wall with pictures of uppity people who looked like they just smelled poop, but it probably woud be about as productive as the other “hall of shame” maker! Except funnier!
May 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm #757752
JanSParticipantdbsea…I didn’t say every SUV owner…I said some SUV owners…yes, I agree, jerks come in all sorts of flavors…but when I’m out and about driving, I have noticed that when I’m tailgated,it’s most often someone in an SUV. Me? as I said before…I recently acquired a car again after two years of not having one, and it’s an older car..nothing to brag about…it gets me where I need to go. Do I think I’m special? Well, certainly not because of the car I drive – lol…do I think EV ownera are uppity? of course not…thank you all for helping the environment. Do I agree with JV? Not on your life.
JV…in person your “humor” may come across better than how it simply does not come across in your written word. In your written work it just comes across as seemingly “jerk-like”…it does not translate…
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