Really White Center?

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  • #723442

    @Beef, no not the potheads, the crack heads and drug sellers.

    @Westseattledood, If someone was to report suspicious activity, then you might as well report all of 15th and 15th ave lately.

    #723443

    Ken
    Participant

    Ok. What time of day are the crackheads and drunks mugging people in White center. I go through there fairly often and I seem to miss them every time. I do go to sleep early but sometimes I roll through WC shortly after 4 am on weekends and still don’t see any. Of course I live in what many Seattle residents think of as Da Hood and I see mostly off leash dog walkers and both muslims and yuppies who can’t get their cell phone off their ear to drive.

    And what on 15th ave is attracting them? The social services building? Bartells? The bank?

    I have lived in large cities most of my life and know how to spot suspicious activity. Maybe West Seattle has dulled my senses since the crime rate here is damn near invisible until someone kicks in your back door and steals your ipod.

    What are you seeing and when?

    #723444

    HelperMonkey
    Participant

    the bar that was there before, and the one before that was a haven for drunken violence and drug violence. Seriously scary. I wouldn’t even walk past the place for fear of being shot, let alone go inside. give Green Piece a chance – it might be better for the neighborhood, you don’t know. I’d rather take my chances with a stoned person vs a drunken crackhead any day.

    It’s not fair to stereotype this business before anything bad has happened. it’s probably going to be better for WC than the scary, dangerous shithole that was in that space before.

    #723445

    velo_nut
    Participant

    I just want to smoke my dope in peace man.

    #723446

    redblack
    Participant

    interesting. there’s a massive contrast between the WCN comments and those in this forum.

    the owners of the former bar are pretty upset, and they claim the property is in some kind of legal dispute. if they’re not just bloviating after being ejected from the property, it sounds like they intend to sue the landlord. one of them even posted a comment to the effect of, “look at [what they’ve done to] my beautiful bar.”

    i’m not familiar with the hang around, so i’ll reserve judgment. was it really that bad?

    anyway, the state “legalized” medical marijuana, but it’s still illegal to possess it. the new law only allows for medical use as a defense after you’ve been arrested for possession.

    and we know that in seattle, if you don’t have sufficient quantity, the cops will give you a slap, maybe take your stash, and not sully your good name.

    but WC is not in seattle.

    the language of the state law also allows practitioners to recommend marijuana use for a specific list of conditions. nowhere does it allow prescription of marijuana.

    face it, folks. unless the state takes a hands-off approach, someone is going to have to go to jail for opening a dispensary. as TR pointed out, green piece is illegal. and unfortunately, that’s how laws are tested for constitutionality. green piece would have to sue the state after being shut down in order to get a ruling or a clarification.

    do they have grounds to sue? they might, because state laws are at odds with themselves.

    then there’s federal law. the DEA could shut this place down and arrest everyone inside. most would skate for possession or intent to buy, but the owner would be on the hook for trafficking/distribution/intent to distribute.

    helpermonkey: did you mean

    all we are saying/

    is give (green) piece a chance?

    funny.

    #723447

    JoB
    Participant

    redblack…

    that property has an interesting story…

    the last tenant invested time, sweat equity and money to successfully turn it around and the owner terminated their lease.

    They weren’t Company.. but they were a definite step up for White Center and i hope they do well with their lawsuit.

    #723448

    DP
    Member

    It seems that the medical marijuana thing has morphed into a push for all-out legalization. I wonder how many of the folks who voted for medical marijuana on compassionate grounds foresaw that “medication lounges” would be the end result. And how many would have voted differently if they had known. Oh well. Live and learn.

    People here have equated marijuana to prescription painkillers. OK. So why don’t we have oxycodone lounges? Why don’t we have vicodin lounges? Simple: because those drugs are not lifestyle drugs. And those drugs don’t have a lobby that’s pushing for full legalization of recreational use.

    Come on, sillies. You don’t need to go “hang out” somewhere with other patients to take your blood pressure meds, or have them baked into a brownie. Why would you need to do that with cannabis?

    redblack made the telling observation that the reaction to this lounge on the White Center Now blog has been markedly different from the reaction on this one. No mystery there, either. People in White Center don’t want this in their backyard because they’ve already got enough of an image problem, not to mention a policing problem. It’s the same reason folks here didn’t want a new jail at the bottom of the hill.

    White Center’s trying to become a safer, more family-oriented place, but that’s hard when you’ve got people from outside saying: Hey! Let’s legalize yet another addictive drug, and let’s put an outlet for it right there in White Center. With all the dive bars around there, no one will even notice.

    —Oh yes they will.

    I say Yes to medical marijuana, No to medication lounges.

    #723449

    MargL
    Member

    I dunno – the whole ‘lounge act’ this business is setting up seems a little like taking advantage of the fact that medical MJ laws are in limbo. Maybe not quite an opium den, but more like a hookah bar. Those have also figured out ways to bypass indoor smoking bans.

    #723450

    maplesyrup
    Participant

    I live in the Admiral district and wouldn’t care if a “lounge” or dispensary were opened in the neighborhood.

    Here’s the real problem with all of this: pot should be legal, but most politicians don’t have the guts to say so and do what it takes to make it legal, regulated and distributed in an organized fashion.

    So we get these back door solutions. And if that’s what it’s going to take to get the politicians off their asses and do what’s right, then I say more power to the dispensaries.

    And by the way I am not a pothead. I don’t even drink.

    #723451

    anonyme
    Participant

    What DP and redblack said. The limbo laws are allowing the MM issue to be exploited in a ridiculous fashion. When does the ‘bartender’ at this lounge cut off patrons? How much is enough? Patients with a valid reason for using MM should be concerned about the way that stoners have taken over and tainted the argument for this product.

    If this is truly a medicinal item, then it must be standardized and sold in regulated dosages – not by the primo bud, for smoking. (Smoking, by the way, is bad for your health regardless of the herb in the bowl.) You can’t buy prescription drugs on Craig’s List; why should you be able to buy weed?

    There also seems to be a widespread, erroneous interpretation – again, by stoners – that legalizing weed or having a ‘prescription’ means that you can (or will be able to) use any time, anywhere. Not so. Weed may not be any worse than alchohol, but it’s no better, either. It’s still an abused substance that causes serious problems both personal and public.

    #723452

    maplesyrup
    Participant

    Ok, what serious public problems does it cause?

    #723453

    waynster
    Participant

    First off love the poster DP…. crime in rat city never never wait let me smoke some more on that thought….Our govenor she is a lawyer you think she wouldn’t be affraid of the big bad feds then again I see why. The attorney-general he woudn’t defend it even if it went into law and was raided by the feds why his buddies in the GOP won’t support him if he did it unless its heathcare and thats a different story see he eyes the govenors seat. So what most want once again no one gets…..

    #723454

    anonyme
    Participant

    DUI, for one. Anyone who thinks that weed does not impair driving ability is either high themselves or delusional. Unfortunately, unlike alcohol, impairment is more difficult to measure.

    People who are high do stupid, obnoxious, destructive things in public places. I don’t care if it’s beer, wine or weed. I work in an outdoor setting near Seattle that potheads love to hang out in. Just like drunks, they trample plants, try to climb trees, use gardens as toilets, and litter with their homemade aluminum foil pipes – or the food wrappers from their munchies. When asked to take their activities elsewhere, many become defiant and combative. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told by one of these individuals that they have a prescription and can therefore smoke weed anywhere and any time they want.

    I’m sure there are many folks who smoke weed, medicinally or recreationally, who are responsible and respectful. But whether legal or not – currently NOT, btw – weed is still a substance of abuse, and substance abuse is a public issue.

    #723455

    maplesyrup
    Participant

    Those aren’t issues with pot. Those are issues with people being idiots and jerks.

    #723456

    anonyme
    Participant

    There’s no question that there are idiots and jerks everywhere, and that they exhibit many of the behaviors described above – with or without weed. However, add a mood-altering, judgment impairing substance and you’ve got a bigger problem than simply stupid. Weed, like alcohol, is a stupid enhancer.

    I notice the DUI issue was sidestepped rather adroitly. A normally careful and ethical individual high on ANY substance, including weed, is quite as capable of killing innocent people as “jerks and idiots”.

    #723457

    maplesyrup
    Participant

    DUIs while high would be illegal just like driving under the influence of alcohol, cough syrup or any other mind-altering substance would be.

    And people who drive under the influence are idiots and jerks.

    #723458

    JoB
    Participant

    DP..

    I don’t know how to tell you this

    but the “lifestyle drug” doesn’t get people who are crawling the walls with pain high…

    it doesn’t do much for chemo patients either other than curb nausea and stimulate appetite..

    I am at a loss to figure out how it is you think that people in that much distress are going to be hanging out at the local lounge…

    All i can say is that if those who voted for medical marijuana on compassionate grounds are regretting their decision now because some fool opens a lounge that is not likely to stay in business…

    they aren’t very compassionate.

    #723459

    anonyme
    Participant

    JoB, I interpreted DP’s comment in the opposite way. I thought he was saying that patients in pain would in fact be unlikely to be hanging out at a lounge, and that a lounge seems slanted toward “lifestyle” users – not patients. I could be wrong, and I know DP is more than capable of clarifying that for us….:>

    I’m thinking over your comments about cancer patients (as an example) not getting high, but only achieving pain management. It seems like there would still be some kind of high associated with use, especially at the point at which ‘management’ was reached. I’m trying to remember back to various surgeries I’ve had, one of which required a morphine drip. I can’t remember if there was a high associated with it – or just unconsciousness! I suppose anyone in that much pain deserves a little buzz. As long as they’re not driving.

    #723460

    JanS
    Participant

    I don’t mean to make light of any of this, as I believe MMJ really does have a place in some people’s lives…this is just a back at ya to DP :)

    Photobucket

    #723461

    austin
    Member

    There are not yet so many people in this world that there is no room for shades of grey.

    #723462

    JanS
    Participant

    Austin, I agree…and I didn’t shape my tin foil into a pipe…I made mine into a hat :)~

    #723463

    JoB
    Participant

    anonyme..

    i can only repeat what other people in significant pain have told me about their experience with marijuana because it’s one of those drugs on my wild ride to the ER list…

    but i can tell you with certainty that i sometimes take pain medications that people abuse to get high and i am lucky to get partial pain relief and no buzz from them.

    I know there is this perception that pain patients get enough medication to relieve pain and then maybe a little more besides…

    and maybe some in temporary pain do…

    but that isn’t the reality for most chronic pain patients.

    If your doctor isn’t cross examining you when you let them know you need stronger medication and requiring a pain management contract designed to get you off the medications whether your pain is relieved or not..

    the pharmacist is hassling you about filling your prescription..

    often dolling a 3 month prescription out a little at a time “so you won’t overdose”

    (but really so you don’t get the volume discount).

    And all of that is after they send you to a psychiatrist to treat you for the psychiatric causes and “secondary gain” of being in pain.

    yup.. they honestly believe you manufacture decades of pain so you can get attention…

    overlooking the statistics that it doesn’t work…

    the marriages of people in chronic pain fail at an astounding rate:(

    so much for the relief that was supposed to come when pain was recognized as one of the medical signposts:(

    for the most part.. the people who end up with an ok to purchase marijuana products from their doctors have a very real need of them.

    Did you know that most docs won’t prescribe medical marijuana until after a patient has tried and failed at all other available pharmaceutical interventions?

    lifetstyle drug my ….. :(

    chronic pain and nausea are not a lifestyle choice anyone in their right mind would make…

    What really burns me about this is that this kind of righteous indignation over people who appear to be abusing drugs makes it that much harder for people who really need them to get them..

    and all it takes is the appearance of abuse to create this kind of public outcry.

    I don’t know if this lounge constitutes abuse …

    and with my sensitivity to smoke i am not likely to risk an ER trip to find out..

    but it is evident that everyone thinks a medical marijuana lounge has to be a den of iniquity.. driving up crime rates..

    even though statistics would indicate that marijuana is one drug that doesn’t drive crime rates..

    even for those who are recreational users.

    It’s way past time for everyone to take a deep breath and ask themselves if they are overreacting here.

    the place isn’t likely to last long anyway…

    and if it does it is likely to get far more police attention than the bar down the street.

    #723464

    redblack
    Participant

    i’d be willing to bet that dispensaries would be a lot more welcome if they were more like pharmacies: a little more clinical and business-like – with an emphasis on security, as the OP and other white center citizens have addressed – and less like an opium den.

    sorry, recreational stoners. the law ain’t quite on your side yet, and you’re likely to lose out until someone goes to jail or sues the state.

    imho, opening a pot lounge and calling it a dispensary is the quickest way to attract the attention of LEO, but it may have the upside of forcing the state to deal with it if green piece is busted.

    DP: you speak truth, but i have to take issue with your assertion that pot is addictive. i hope the whole 1950’s film-strips-about-drugs and “reefer madness” mentality doesn’t creep into the argument. in other words, a little more norm stamper and a little less nancy reagan, if you please.

    [edit: DP: i just read the I-1149 thread, and now i see where you get that assertion. no offense intended. full disclosure: i get high from time to time, and i have never craved it like… well, like i’ve craved a beer.]

    and i’ll give my support to the DUI argument: we don’t need drunks doing 90 mph in a 50 mph zone while stoners are doing 35 in the left lane with their blinkers on. it’s bad enough trying not to get killed by people who are merely stupid.

    #723465

    redblack
    Participant

    jo: i know people who have legal medical marijuana “prescriptions” – who don’t have any of the symptoms or illnesses set forth in the law.

    the law is already being exploited, and i think the state needs to get on top of this right quick.

    or just legalize it altogether – with strict regulations and taxation – and let the feds challenge the state law.

    seems to be the path of least resistance after opening this exploitable medical marijuana loophole for the recreational users.

    #723466

    anonyme
    Participant

    It seems to me that a lot of the claims made – perhaps on both sides of the question – are based on purely anecdotal evidence. For example, where is the proof, the data, supporting claims that “most” MM patients are legit, and abuse is rare? Statistics “proving” that marijuana use does not contribute to crime rates? JoB, I’m not specifically targeting you on this, as these are some of the most common claims floating about at the moment. I’m asking because I really want to know so that I can further educate myself, not to challenge anyone’s integrity – especially those in real need of this useful medication. I’m merely rather fond of facts. While my own observations are indeed anecdotal, they are first hand observations.

    In case I haven’t made it clear in this particular thread (there are several on this topic going at present) I am in favor of legalization and voted for MM. My concern is the current loophole. Acknowledging that there is a problem does not negate the need for MM, nor does it challenge the integrity of valid users.

    I think the lounge opening really clouded the issue; what I don’t understand is why opponents of the lounge are seen as the enemy.

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