Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › RANT – cut off at Avalon/Harbor Ave intersection
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January 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm #601986
higginsMemberOnce or twice a week, I get cut off as I am turning right from Avalon onto Chelan Ave/WS Bridge on-ramp. I have a green light, but drivers who are turning left from Harbor Ave often do not yield to me. Can someone tell me if they have a green arrow? If they don’t, am I correct in my belief that they need to yield to me? And if they do have a green arrow, why is the light set up so I have a green light too? Does anyone else have this problem?
January 26, 2012 at 3:11 pm #746100
SueParticipanthiggins, this happens ALL the time at this intersection and it’s maddening (not to mention dangerous). If you have a green light, they do NOT have a green turn arrow – they are supposed to be yielding to you. But, as you can see, many do not. the only time they have a green arrow and right of way would be when you have the red light at that intersection. Almost every morning somebody cuts out bus off like this, and I experience it as a driver nearly everytime I approach that intersection. Frankly, I’m surprised there are not accidents there.
January 26, 2012 at 3:14 pm #746101
KimberleyParticipantThere’s enough room in that merge area for cars to turn left and right at the same time when both lanes have a green light and no cars are going straight from Avalon to Harbor. Most cars I see use the zipper approach. Conversely, when Avalon traffic has a red light, and I have the green arrow, cars cut me off all the time.
January 26, 2012 at 6:40 pm #746102
JanSParticipantKimberly…so…make that intersection one on Calif. Ave. Say, at Dawson SW. If I am going south on Calif. and want to make a right turn, and someone is coming north and wants to make a left turn, who has the right of way? I do. There are not two lanes to turn into at the base of Avalon turning onto the approach to the WS bridge. Those with the green light coming down Avalon have the right of way, period. No zipper thing there…
January 26, 2012 at 7:04 pm #746103
KBearParticipantIf you don’t have a left arrow, you must yield to oncoming traffic. The lane configuration is irrelevant.
January 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm #746104
KimberleyParticipantIf traffic is turning, are they still considered oncoming? The lane configuration is two lanes JanS, and it’s more clearly marked than before due to the rapid ride lane.
January 26, 2012 at 7:48 pm #746105
KBearParticipantKimberly, they are “oncoming” until they actually make the turn. That is why the law says left turns must yield to oncoming traffic. Sometimes drivers change their minds at the last minute or don’t turn into their own lane. Failure to yield is not only illegal, it’s unsafe.
January 26, 2012 at 8:45 pm #746106
KimberleyParticipantSo is failing to stop at a red light, which many vehicles turning right onto the bridge from avalon fail to do. Same with the no left turn from the street between admiral and avalon.
January 26, 2012 at 9:10 pm #746107
higginsMemberThe fact that sometimes people turning left get cut off on a green arrow doesn’t mean they have the right to do the same. I agree with JanS that there are not two lanes to turn into, but even if I’m wrong, I’d argue that people from out of town won’t know that there’s a secret pact between us West Seattleites to use the zipper approach at that intersection. I think following the law and obeying the lights is the best answer.
January 26, 2012 at 9:13 pm #746108
cwitParticipantRight turns have the right of way there when the light is green for them. However, the reality of it is that area gets backed up during rush hours, so people traveling west (from Alki) will proceed to make a left turn anyways. Which is fine with me as long as they do use the zipper approach – traffic keeps moving okay. When they don’t let right turners in is what gets me.
Also, I got to experience the self-important drivers who stay in the inner lane going down Avalon, bypassing all the cars backed up for the right turn to the WS bridge, and then turning right at the last second. This resulted into a bit of a jam with 3 cars all trying to get onto the stretch for the on-ramp to the bridge.
January 27, 2012 at 4:27 am #746109
redblackParticipantwhat cwit said. in other words, left turn always yields to right turn, except when there is an arrow directing otherwise.
and, no, it doesn’t matter who gets to the intersection first.
January 27, 2012 at 8:49 am #746110
create125ParticipantConversely, I have had the left hand green arrow when turning off of Harbor Ave, and been cut off by people turning right-I have seen people not even slow down before making their right turns, even though they have a red light. I agree that it makes it difficult that there are not two lanes to turn into. As higgins said, we just need to follow the law and obey the lights. Turning right on a red light without even slowing down or stopping seems to be commonplace all over Seattle, unfortunately.
January 27, 2012 at 4:45 pm #746111
LemonSeed31978MemberI just wanted to write a note to say that I totally agree with higgins! I did follow the traffic laws, turned in the right lane, stopped and waited, the light turned green, the traffic in the opposite direction was stopped at a red light. I turned right into the traffic, I was the last car in the line of cars stopped but I had fully turned and was on Chelan Ave, with stopped traffic in front of me. When the opposite traffic got the green light, a younger man, in a hoodie (hood on), driving a small, older grey pick up, maybe a Datsun, turned and tried to pull right in front of me. Legally he should have yielded and pulled in behind me, there was no reason to try and get in front of me. At one point we were side by side, every time the traffic moved we both inched forward. I rolled down my window to explain to him I have the right of way (yes I know, immature, but every morning, I follow the rules and frankly, I am tired of people pulling out in front of me). But his truck did not have automatic windows, so instead of reaching over to roll his window down, he did a series of hand gestures, started to pull forward until I actually had to move my car almost into the cement wall to my right. Once he pulled out in front of me, he did a “happy dance” in his truck while he flipped me off. I allowed that jerk to bother me all that day. People can be so mean. No one’s time is more important than anyone else’s. Glad I am not the only one who shares that sentiment.
September 18, 2013 at 4:35 pm #746112
SarahScootParticipantThis still happens all the time. It happened to me this morning–I had the solid green light to turn right onto Chelan to get onto the bridge, and approaching traffic wanting to turn left needed to yield. As I approached the intersection, another car started to turn left in front of me instead of yielding. I kept going (we weren’t in danger of colliding at that moment, and I would have stopped if it became clear he wasn’t going to); he ended up behind me and flipped me off, I assume because I didn’t let him go ahead of me.
Some people apparently are in sore need of a refresher on traffic signals.
September 18, 2013 at 7:23 pm #746113
JanSParticipantand self-importance…
September 18, 2013 at 11:43 pm #746114
datamuseParticipantThis sounds confusing enough that SDOT should take a look and maybe adjust the signaling there.
Except for the dude who failed to yield to LemonSeed31978. He was just being a jerk.
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