Racism, sexism, religion and discrimination in this election…

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    You dont respect Obama. We Obama supporters have no respect for Clinton. It is a very sad point for the Democratic party. We will be lucky if there is still a Democratic party come 2009.



    Try to see it my way,

    Do I have to keep on talking till I can’t go on?

    While you see it your way,

    Run the risk of knowing that our love may soon be gone.


    We can work it out,

    We can work it out.

    Verse #2

    Think of what you’re saying.

    You can get it wrong and still you think that it’s all right.

    Think of what I’m saying,

    We can work it out and get it straight, or say good night.


    We can work it out,

    We can work it out.


    Life is very short, and there’s no time

    For fussing and fighting, my friend.

    I have always thought that it’s a crime,

    So I will ask you once again.

    Verse #3

    Try to see it my way,

    Only time will tell if I am right or I am wrong.

    While you see it your way

    There’s a chance that we might fall apart before too long.


    We can work it out,

    We can work it out.


    Life is very short, and there’s no time

    For fussing and fighting, my friend.

    I have always thought that it’s a crime,

    So I will ask you once again.

    Verse #4

    Try to see it my way,

    Only time will tell if I am right or I am wrong.

    While you see it your way

    There’s a chance that we might fall apart before too long.


    We can work it out,

    We can work it out.

    Please wonderful West Seattlites…WE MUST WORK IT OUT!!!!



    BTW: Have you rented “Across the Universe” yet? Wonderful!!



    WS mom.. i should rent Across the universe.. i hear it is outstanding… but for today i am here.

    Kayleigh, i don’t think you understand that all of the comments about the “good of the party” were generated by you. You think the only way Hillary can benefit the party is to resign.

    I don’t think you know who you are asking to go away. This is someone who has actually worked for the good of her party. Her supporters are people who will actually work for the good of the party.

    “for the good of the party” is not a campaign slogan designed to eliminate Hillary.

    For some of us it actually means something… did last time.. did the time before that… i tried to think back to how many presidential campaigns i have witnessed.. participated in.. and sometimes worked for… all i can say is that it is a lot… and hillary has been at it longer than me.

    i never called you mindless… i said that republican labels were affecting our party politics…

    if you think that makes you mindless.. that is your problem.

    I admit to being susceptible to advertising.. and i will bet that i question it a lot more than you do.

    I haven’t done much name calling.. i have just tried to refute the endless steam of mislabeling that has occurred lately.

    beachdrivegirl.. if you truly don’t respect Hillary.. then tell me why… but don’t be repeating slanders and using labels to do so.

    tell me exactly what this person has actually done to lose your respect.

    because i told you exactly what Barak Obama has done to lose mine.

    And he didn’t lose it till the last couple of days.

    And it had nothing to do with what some pundit had to say about him.. and everything to do with what he actually did… all by himself.



    I’m not going to participate in this debate anymore. But I am going to start the STOP McCain thread before someone goes off and starts a GO McCain thread. Go away, maybe. :-)

    Meantime, our JoB called in for the last segment of the Rachel Maddow show today (hosted by David Binder). She was, as always, articulate and intelligent in her defense of Ferraro. Binder listened and moved the conversation along. They ran out of time.

    Obviously, my mind has not been changed–but I did want to extend props to JoB for her passion and her intelligence in this debate. And say how cool it was to hear someone I know on a call-in show other than Rush. We were driving home from Portland and when they announced, “Joanne from Seattle,” we just knew. We were right.

    I don’t think the program is repeated, but you can find a podcast or itunes. (JoB, we also record it on Radio Myway — if you want a copy…or is just me who collects my performances?)





    Hillary lost my respect for a couple of different reasons.

    The original reason is because I feel that she started the game of dirty politics with Obama. Yes it is an opinion, but in my mind she started attacking him first. She has really given him a lack of respect. He has more experience and is older than Bill was when he ran, but yet he just doesn’t have experience.

    Furthermore, I am tired of the way that she continually changes her stance on why she is going to win and consistently changing why she is actually winning. I have more delegates, I have won the popular vote, have won the bigger states. I am sorry I believe that she needs to take a stance and stand by it not change it to favor herself every other month.

    I am trying to find a reason to like her, respect her, and vote for her if needed in November, but she is making it very difficult for me.




    i can understand your perspective..

    but if the only difference between her and him really is experience.. then what did you expect her to focus on?

    and why does her talking about his lack of experience show a lack of respect?

    This contest is not between a younger Bill and Barak… and i would contend that being a governor is better experience for the Presidency than the state legislature and a couple of years of the senate… but that is another story and one that i don’t think has relevance here.

    The experience question was a contrast between Barak and Hillary… and he just plain isn’t old enough to have been in the game as long as she has. and she has been in the game.

    His campaign can play with the numbers any way they want.. and dismiss all of the hard work she has done.. but it still doesn’t change the reality.

    as for the changing tune.. it’s not something i have noticed much until barak kept saying he had won and she should withdraw… and she had to keep defending her right to even stay in the race…

    Barak’s latest emails say that she kept changing her tune and all her tunes are wrong.

    but if i remember right, the reasons the Barak campaign put out that caused her to defend her right to stay in the race kept changing.

    You should actually have to win the race before you insist that everyone bow out and call it for yourself.

    I have been amazed every time she pulled it out at the last minute because there really hasn’t been much hope some days.. but she does. It isn’t over.

    I don’t think it’s so simple to write off Florida and Michigan…

    nor do i think it unfair that Hillary spent time earning the respect and commitment of superdelegates when Barak ignored them.

    There are still plenty of delegates to be won by one candidate or another.. and until that happens.. this race can’t be called by anyone.




    i am not happy with you for sending me to rollingstone. i read the hillary article tonight at the library and it took a chocolate banana shake, a works burger plus egg, fries, catsup and about 3 dollars worth of dowap at the Luna Cafe to restore my good humor. It’s difficult to be unhappy in there.

    yes House.. i am aware that everything but the dowaps went straight to my hips:(

    my husband fed them to me… and played dowap for me… so it must be ok with him.

    and worse.. i don’t even get to claim props for the call-in.. it wasn’t me. There is apparently another really cool intelligent woman in Seattle named Joanne… i need to meet her ;->

    hope you had a great time in Portland.



    G-d, JoB–the woman sounded EXACTLY like you. And spoke like you and … identity theft takes all forms.

    I told you not to read the RS article about Hillary –or look at the caricature. All I can say is don’t put Matt Taibbi in your kill file yet, even though he wrote it. He still is a great political writer..definitely an iconoclast.

    I may have to make a sympathy trip to Luna Park — or we can make it the next site of a get-together.




    I was following JanS’s link to McCain when i found this… on Geraldine Ferraro…

    “In a letter to Clinton, first reported by CNN, Ferraro says:

    “Dear Hillary, I am stepping down from your finance committee so I can speak for myself and you can continue to speak for yourself about what’s at stake in this campaign. The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you. I won’t let that happen. Thank you for everything you’ve done and continue to do to make this a better world for my children and grandchildren. You have my deep admiration and respect, Gerry.”

    The back-and-forth between two Democratic trailblazers — Obama, seeking to be the nation’s first black president, and Ferraro, who in 1984 was the first woman on a major party presidential ticket — continued for a second day as they appeared on network and cable morning news programs.”

    these aren’t Obama suporters.. this is Obama…

    This is what she actually said…

    “If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”

    Ferraro said she stands by her assertion that Obama’s success in the Democratic campaign is due “in part” to his race.

    Obama, however, said that if someone in his campaign had suggested that Hillary Clinton “is where she is only because she is a woman” she would be offended.”

    Notice that Geraldine Ferrao says “in part” and Obama responds with “only because”…”

    Geraldine never said or implied that his success was due only to his race.. but that is how he is replying to the comment.

    he is making this a racist issue.. not her.

    “Ferraro, who was Walter Mondale’s vice presidential running mate, said Wednesday that her remarks were not racist and had been taken out of context.

    “I was talking about historic candidacies and what I started off by saying (was that) if you go back to 1984 and look at my historic candidacy, which I had just talked about all these things, in 1984 if my name was Gerard Ferraro instead of Geraldine Ferraro, I would have never been chosen as a vice presidential candidate,” Ferraro said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “It had nothing to do with my qualification.”

    Ferraro said she has a 40-year history of opposing discrimination of all kinds, including race, and that she was outraged at criticism of her remarks by David Axelrod, Obama’s chief media strategist, because he knows her and her record.

    “David Axelrod, his campaign manager, has chose to spin this as a racist comment… ”

    She’s goes on to comment that this is one of his campaign strategies… it is not the first time he has done this…

    and… it worked taking comments out of context with Bill Clinton… Bill backed off. I don’t think Geraldine will.

    In fact, i think this is precisely why she left the Clinton campaign.. so she would have the freedom to defend herself against that sort of attack.

    In this case, there is a great deal of difference between what was actually said and the innuendo that was implied…

    I would say who is really making race an issue? .. but i don’t think it’s that exactly.

    i think he is using the same political ploy that McCain used when caught with the lobbyists… misdirection inspiring indignation creating support for the underdog.

    good campaign strategy if you realize that is all it is…

    and if you don’t happen to be Geraldine Ferraro with your reputation slurred as a result of that strategy.



    charlabob.. i will gladly do a luna park run any time.. but i think i ought to walk this one off first:)



    hmm…whatever happens here, what gets resolved or not…I’m up for Luna Park, for sure :)



    JoB – Of course Obama made the remarks racist. He will again. I repeat… Obama made the issue about racism!!!! He will do it again.. Believe me.

    Sorry to all of you Obama supporters. But I, for one, am so sick of people tiptoeing around Obama’s race. He doesn’t have to account for anything because everybody is too scared to hold him to task for anything for fear of being labeled racist! Look what just happened! It’s sickening! If that is his campaign strategy, that is the lowest of the low!



    Women gained the right to vote in 1920, segregation ended in 1968. Give it another 40-50 years and race wont be that big of an issue anymore. Until then you bet race will matter, and Obama will use it to his advantage. Just like I’m sure no one will bring up McCains time in a prison camp. You have to tiptoe around certain issues if you know they will be used against you.

    You cant tell me spending 5 and a half years as a POW being tortured hasnt had any effect on his mental state. But you think anyone will bring it up? hell no, he’s a american hero because of what he did.

    Hillary lost my respect by trying to legislate my parenting (violent video game law, of course I’m biased and use to work for one of the companies that made these “violent” video games), and by staying with her cheating husband for political gain (perhaps she truly “loves” him, but I dont get that from their relationship).

    Obama hasnt done anything to lose my respect YET, mudslinging is part of the game. Hell I vote for republicans often to give them a chance if I dont have any reason not too. Everyone will use what they can to their advantage, now and later as they should. They’re running for president!

    Ferraro made the comment “If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any color] he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”

    Where in that statement do you see “in part”. Those “in part” comments were made afterwards. Granted I dont see her whole speech/comment in text, just what the press dishes out. She should know anything she says will be used by the opposing side, in the current situation, the opposing side is the Obama campaign, she lived it 20 years ago.

    This is a campaign that will have to be very careful the whole time, primaries, presidential race, all the time. Democrats and Republicans will have to choose their words wisely or get hammered on every little detail.

    The key for everyone is not to get caught up in the press/media storm and vote based on what you believe in, Hillary, Obama, McCain, are all GOOD candidates, and believe it or not, I’ll be happy no matter who wins. I just hope they all have good VP candidates, cause I see a slim chance that the VP could take over no matter who wins.

    Who do I want to win? Obama, who will I accept winning? Either one of them. Hillary or Obama would both be a great president, and I do hope we get a great president, one way or the other.



    new resident.. i understand the campaign strategy.. and he has the same right to use what he has as anyone else… if i defend Hillary’s use of experience.. i have to defend his use of race… and yes… d…d it… even McCain’s use of being a POW….

    but it isn’t ok when that tactic slanders someone who is not a candidate.. she was a fundraiser.

    Geraldine is right to fight back…

    and I wanted to follow up on your reverse racism comment .. was it yesterday… but i was heartsick and overwhelmed…

    yes.. reverse racism does exist.. those people who use their race to advantage… but still not nearly to the extent that racism exists…

    oh.. we are more careful about the n word now… now…

    but had the baggy pants red scarf wearing young black men of the infamous one’s post been visible in a fast food restaurant as we pulled up.. how many of us would have gone in?

    In fact how many of us are truly comfortable just walking through a crowd of latino, oriental or black teenagers on a street corner.

    and at my own causcus, i saw a woman of color treated in a dismissive manner when she supported Clinton while a young white woman was listened to attentively…

    the woman of color was speaking for clinton and was polite and respectful. the young white woman was speaking for obama and was not.

    it was subtle… we all chose to ignore it (including the woman of color) .. but it was there and it made my heart hurt.



    Every time someone here defends Hillary’s despicable campaign, including and especially the bigoted nonsense spewed from Geraldine “I’m living in 1972” Ferraro, I’ll write a check to Obama’s campaign.

    NewResident and JoB, you’ve earned him two checks so far.

    I’m now 80% sure I won’t vote for Hillary if she is the nomniee. If she turns her campaign around, she might be able to earn my vote back.

    McCain and the Republicans are probably breaking out the champagne, seeing how the party is warring and fragmenting and Hillary is writing the “How to Defeat Obama” playbook for them.

    A sad time for Democrats, for sure.



    Out of curioustiy NR, what would you like him to have to account for??




    You are an “anybody but Hillary” supporter… that’s the real point here.. isn’t it.

    write those checks to Obama..

    i hope they make you feel better.. because the “anybody but” position isn’t very fullfilling…

    I am sorry your candidate didn’t survive the primaries.. i think this would have been a better election for you if he had.

    But voting for McCain in the fall won’t support any of John Edward’s ideals… in fact… that vote would tarnish them.

    If you can, step back from your private battle with Hillary and take a look at the bigger picture…

    my hubby can’t… but even he will capitulate in the fall if Hillary is our candidate … given the alternatives…

    Our household would have been a happier one if Dennis had survived the fray… someone we could have both believed in.



    rs261… you forgot the part where black men earned the vote before all women… and the part where discrimination included women and happened later …

    but you are right.. in another 40 or 50 years if we are lucky.. this will all be ancient history… as many young people already believe it is.

    i have been quoted out of context so many times that i am testy about that little practice.. it makes such good headlines and is so difficult to refute…

    you are right that Geraldine is a grownup and should have realized the sharks are out there… and it’s easier to watch for them in prepared remarks.. but answering questions is a different matter… and we can often get caught up in a thread and don’t analyze each sentence as it comes out.

    A more gracious approach.. had she had a real chance to make it.. would have been to apologize that any remark of hers taken out of context had offended…

    One of the things i like about her tho is that she is not so gracious… women should be able to be curmudgeons too…

    Your main point that we would all do better to back away from the media hype and concentrate on what we believe in is well taken.



    I know black men had the right to vote before any women. The 19th amendment in 1920 gave women the right to vote.

    The 15th Amendment gave black men the right to vote in 1870, but many decades would pass before that apparent promise became reality.

    Thwarting the measure’s intent were a number of actions by states that sought to keep blacks from the polls.

    For example, some states required blacks to pass literacy tests before voting — a hurdle not placed before already-registered white voters. A Supreme Court decision overturned that tactic in 1915.

    And poll taxes, aimed largely at discouraging minority voters, remained legal until adoption of the 24th Amendment in 1964.

    Again it wasnt until the 1960’s. Granted women still arent treated as equals as far as pay or respect in many business fields.

    I know there have been and will continue to be discrimination against women, and blacks. Our part is not to buy into it and treat everyone like they should be….as people. I try not to look at sex or race as a defining trait of a person, and I look forward to the day when people dont see that as their defining trait as well. Sadly, that day isnt here yet, but we’re getting there.

    Really, I’m just waiting for the aliens to land their spaceship so that we can all pass laws against them. (cause discrimination against space folk isnt bad at all!)



    you can’t discriminate against space creatures!

    some of us might be related to them:)

    LOL… for all we know we are voting for them.



    Note to self: Do not post on forum after THAT many cocktails.

    Thanks, everyone, for not ripping me apart after my post last night.

    And JoB – I think it is horrible what happened at your caucus. I bet that was disturbing to see. I see that kind of thing once in a while. But being a white female, I’m actually the victim of racism very often while at work.

    So, yeah,rs261, I agree that maybe in another 40, 50 years race won’t be an issue, either way.



    I do find Obama and Hillary a lot like Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror VII

    Just remember you cant blame me, I voted for the other one.



    LOL.. kang and kodos? you have me weeping over my keyboard…

    newresident.. we would all do better to avoid posting after cocktails.. and maybe when we are emotional too:)

    but when you do.. a return to a cooler head later is always appreciated.




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