Racism, sexism, religion and discrimination in this election…

[rs261]

Its funny, I never really thought about his race or Hillary being female until the press brought it up early on. And about a month ago was the first time I thought to myself what a target Barak would be to hate mongers. The reason why Obama got secret service protection before any other candidate in history is because of his race. Hillary already has it due to being a former presidents wife. Being female, being black are both who they are, Clinton used to play the whole I’m a female thing, it didnt work for her, why cant Barak play the I’m a black man thing?

Its not because its THAT man you cant acknowledge his race…its because this is a person who is involved in THAT campaign making those statements. Obama is trying to run a very clean campaign, Clinton using Bill’s methods is having a hard time doing the same.

Is it better to be a black male in this society then a white female? I dont think I could answer that as I am neither. Me, the middle aged middle income white married male, I’m the one who isnt that remarkable.

What would Hillary do if one of Barak’s workers made public statements about her only being where she is because shes female? (not the press mind you, they make statements about race and sex all the time). Its a game the two of them are playing, and Obama is just playing it slightly better at this time.

Oh, and I would love to vote for a female president/judge/any other public position, as a matter of fact, I wrote my wife in for the last election…even if I dont agree with all of her views. She didnt win.

Oh and as for republicans, I see them as 50% democrat anyways…there are really very few issues they differ on greatly. They all want more education, a better economy, a safer nation…etc etc, its all just a matter of how we get to those.

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[Kayleigh]

Jo, you have lost your rationality on the subject of Hillary. Over and over we have offered thoughtful, reasonable reasons why we don’t like her or don’t think she is the best candidate. You insist it’s because of the right wing smear machine, or because she’s a woman, or because we’re somehow blinded to her brilliance through our own character flaws.

Some of us flat-out dislike her mean streak, her sense of entitlement, her fearmongering, her divisiveness, her reputation, her conservative past, her disrespect of Obama, and her betrayal of the party. Period.

Maybe her campaign can come into the milennium and stop with the race baiting. Before she alienates even MORE Democrats.

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[JanS]

JoB…I love you…but I am also gonna agree to disagree with you on this one. I think you’re looking at the wrong elephant. I agree with Charla..”I don’t object to her stating that he’s black. I object to her saying that he only got where he is because he’s a black man.” That’s as bigoted a statement as ever. Take Ms. Ferraro out of the process…pretend that she’s just another person on the street. She can have that opinion and state it as such, and we would agree or disagree, and feel that it’s a tad racist. But she’s not just a person on the street…she’s deep in the Clinton campaign…and there’s the difference. She can feel however she wants to..just needs to keep her mouth shut.

This has nothing to do with Hillary, or sexism, or some smear campaign, real or imagined. It has to do with who is around her, who she keeps despite their feelings on things and how they express themselves. If it were any other candidate saying that they reject what was said but that they’d keep the person on, we would be just as vocal about what that candidate really feels…again…just MHO…

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[Kayleigh]

PS: It’s perfectly reasonable to believe that Hillary is the best, smartest, and most experienced candidate. And it’s reasonable to have objections to her and dislike her on her own merits.

I don’t particularly care if I see a female president in my lifetime or a black president; though both would be cool, that isn’t my priority. I *would* like to see a true progressive president in my lifetime who would make a difference for blacks and women and everybody else.

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[JoB]

did you all actually follow the link? … and watch the video of the interview.. or were you too indignant to do that?

and if so.. did you actually listen to what was said instead of just looking for justification for your anger?

because… Geraldine Ferraro says she didn’t say that he got where he is ONLY because he was black.. at least the the statement in context didn’t say that… it was never her intention in any way to say that he got where he is ONLY because he was black… the interviewer wouldn’t even let her point that teeny little fact out because it was so much better news if geraldine ferraro was a racist.

and by implication… Hillary Clinton a racist because she didn’t immediately fire her for being quoted out of context.

Ferraro did say that Obama is a credible candidate. did you hear that?

And she said something else that it might be wise for those who want Obama to succeed in the fall (if he wins the nomination) to listen to very carefully.

She pointed out something which i think you all would do well to hear while you are busy polarizing opinion…

that if Obama is the candidate… he should be just a little bit more careful who he smears as he works his way up the ladder because he is counting on those very people to raise funds for him and campaign for him in the fall (Geraldine Ferraro is a big democratic fund raiser).

I for one am still going to campaign for him this fall (if he is our candidate) because i won’t be a party to a McCain victory.. but i can tell you right now… the only reason is that i don’t want McCain for president. I am NOT impressed with Obama. I am less impressed every single day he campaigns.

I can’t believe how myopic you are all being. Obama is NOT running a clean campaign. There was nothing clean about the attack on Ferraro.

It is the Obama campaign who took the comment (at a non-campaign paid speech on another subject… in response to a direct question about Obama’s carrying the black vote) and used it out of context; labeling it as as racist.

Anyone who actually thinks that Geraldine Ferraro is a racist had best go take a good look at her political history.

Do you realize that by those same standards.. you label me a racist.. and that is about as far from the truth as anyone can get.

Do you really think labeling good people racist is inclusive? Do you think this is the way to make them work for your candidate in the fall?

get real!

As for Barak.. he is making capital out of both his name and his race… and it’s good for him to do so. Yes.. being a black candidate named barak has been very good for his campaign.

It may not be good for his eventual safety.. so we should be paying a lot of attention to who he would choose as a running mate.. but it certainly has been good for his campaign.

those who believe in political correctness are stumbling all over themselves trying not to offend his sensibilities.. and it appears it is so easy to do so.

Which by the way is turning out to be incredibly divisive… because he has taken the high road… he says so.. that makes anyone else on the low road… he says so…

what could possibly be more divisive than dismissing anyone who doesn’t agree.

Kayleigh.. i think your statement on Hillary.. which to give you credit has been consistent from the beginning.. shows who has lost their rationality…

“Some of us flat-out dislike her mean streak, her sense of entitlement, her fearmongering, her divisiveness, her reputation, her conservative past, her disrespect of Obama, and her betrayal of the party. Period.”

You have regurgitated just about every right wing slur the republican party has been able to throw out…

except those that the democrats who would like to see anybody but Hillary and the Obama campaign created:

her conservate past …her voting record is every bit as progressive as Obama’s…

Her disrespect of Obama … What part of she is campaigning against him .. not for him.. has everyone missed? …

and i haven’t noticed Obama being so respectful of her either… but nobody seems to mind that.

her betrayal of the party … I love this one… she is not the one thumbing their nose at the party.. something everyone seems to be missing.. Obama is… didn’t anybody actually read the Rolling Stone article on Obama’s campaign? have you not listened to his constant criticism of the Democratic party? Obama may have been embraced by the anybody but Hillary faction of the Democratic party… but he has not in any way supported or tried to work with that party…

yet.. when push comes to shove.. he is certainly going to feel entitled to that party’s support.

oops.. did i just use the entitlement word against obama.. yup!

her fearmongering … so she reminds voters that it might be good if someone with a little more experience.. (and let me define that for you since some of you think that only applies to the amount of time she has held elected office… all other experience being unpaid or not in charge.. so it doesn’t count)…someone who has actually been paying attention to international politics for a long time and who has taken the initiative to be educated on those matters…. that someoen with expreience took the calls that our current administration has made much more than likely… that is fearmongering? that is political labeling.

Those political labels are the filter through which you see her every action…

She can’t even say that Obama is outspending her to make her supporters aware that without more contributions, she will not win … without you taking it as a personal slur against Obama.. she’s implying he’s got corporate money? i don’t think so.

Who has lost their perspective?

And each and every one of those charges has come from the Obama campaign… i know because i receive his emails … I think there is derogatory labeling of Hillary in every one of them.

this is a strange way of running a clean campaign… perpetually smearing your opponent with emotionally charged assertions that distract from the actual issues….

let’s see.. where have is seen that lately?… oh yeah.. it was from the Carl Rove playbook. imagine that.

i must be mistaken because Obama tells me that Hillary plays from that playbook and if obama says it.. it’s true…

Yup, i’m sarcastic.

I have already taken one walk today.. and i would like you to know that West Seattle and all of the reasons i love it are still out there. This morning i saw a bald eagle perched above alki… and watched the sea churn against the wall at alki point.. and some black and white ducks enthusiastically fished in the choppy waters.

i think i will go take another. it beats washing dishes.

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[Anonymous]

JoB – speaking only for myself, I like both candidates. I agree with most of your points, I don’t think Geraldine was being racist. Lots of people, famous, public, and otherwise have stated they are excited to specifically be voting for a “black” man. Just as many say that about the chance to vote for a woman. I feel that is all she was pointing out. It wasn’t that being black or a woman is their only qualifications, just a reason for giving them an edge, as it had done in her own campaign. Otherwise, why is Edwards out? He was a great choice and I’m disappointed he dropped out so soon. And why are we calling this a historic campaign if not for the black/female component. Is that being racist/sexist, or factual.

The only disagreement I personally have with your positions, is you don’t seem to want to see any faults in Hillary. That’s not realistic and almost sets the stage for making people want to find some. Of course, Obama supporters are just as zealous in their worship, but you portray yourself as being open-minded and interested in all sides. It’s not coming across that you are willing to be objective about Hillary.

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[Kayleigh]

Let me get this straight:

1. Hillary can do no wrong.

2. If Hillary does wrong, see #1.

3. It’s racist to support Barack because he’s black, but it’s empowering and not at all sexist to support Hillary because she’s a woman.

4. Fearmongering is OK if Hillary does it; when Barak protests, he’s a big ole weenie who should toughen up.

5. Hillary is always a victim of hate when she is criticized. There is no fair criticism of her. (See #1 again.)

6. Barack is a big ole meanie for standing up for himself.

7. It’s cool to count your spouse’s experience, your teen job in the mailroom, your lemonade stand at age 5, and your twenty minutes at the nonprofit sector as “experience in public service”.

8. Olbemrann is gonna kick Hillary’s butt tonight. (this one is actually true.)

Do I have it straight now?

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[beachdrivegirl]

JoB: I am a strong Obama supporter and you are a strong Clinton supporter. I will give you the upper hand that you have had more dignity than myself b/c you continually say that if Obama is the nominee come the fall you will rally for him. While I have had gone back and forth on whether or not I will support Clinton. After reading this article which compares the two canidates (its a bit dated but nonetheless interesting).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15920730/

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[beachdrivegirl]

PS I hope your walk was nice.

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[Anonymous]

JoB is extremely passionate in her support for Clinton (that’s putting it mildly), but I have to give her credit for admitting that she will support whoever is on the vote in the fall.

That is true support in her party.

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[andrea]

JT you are so right! I know I could go on and on about how much I agree with JoB here (because for the most part I do), but I also agree with what JT say’s about Geraldine and Hillary. Neither is a racist…puulleeze people! You can take anything a person says out of context and twist it into something more vial if you try hard enough, and thats exactly what happened here (by the media no less…surprise surprise). And as for Edwards, the ONLY reason he is no longer in this race is BECAUSE he is a white male, which against a black man and a white woman this election cycle is just plan boring. As is referenced over and over in the media, people want change, and the same old same old (as in standrad white male politician) just isn’t cutting it anymore for the American public. I truly think Edwards was and is the most qualified person for the role of President, but this time around he was the odd man out when it came to what the people wanted.

I just wish all of the Obama fans would look at this election for what it is, and know that whether its he or Hillary come this November, both are equally strong and equally qualified. The derision of Hillary in America today is completely unnecesarry and so totally right-wing based. She’s a powerful, intelligent woman, and that’s a scary thing to many. She’s not perfect, but nobody is. Not even Obama. Promise.

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[andrea]

Kayleigh your negatively is astounding. You are most definitely entitled to it, but its not helpful to the Democratic process or for people of any one party to feel that way about one of their own.

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[JoB]

You guys are great for my exercise program…

This mornings posts… the attack on Gerladine Ferraro finally made me mad. It is not ok.

When Obama’s advisor called Hillary a monster… nothing out of context there… hillary said that it was too bad that she said that.. but it does say something about what they think in that campaign…

Hillary didn’t call for her resignation or voice anything other than sadness. And her sadness was that any democratic campaign would build such a culture of hate for another candidate.

When Hillary’s head of finance got quoted out of context.. (she says she was quoted out of context and I believe the transcript reflects exactly that) Obama indignantly called for her resignation.

Apparantly Hillary’s assessment of the culture of hate inside Obama’s campaign was correct… and extends to anyone who actually supports her.

This is ugly! And in spite of everyone’s assertion of Hillary’s divisiveness… this is evidence of divisiveness fed directly by the Obama campaign.

I have been placed lately in a position i don’t want to be in… the attacks on Hillary have stepped up to such a fever pitch that i have been forced to spend all of my time refuting charges…

I feel like the recipient of the question “When did you stop beating your wife”

The assumption is that the charges are correct and the only question is when i will apologize for them.

The truth is that neither of our democratic candidates is anything for a progressive to shout about.

Neither one of them!

Neither will take a political chance… their voting records are so close as to be identical.

Neither has stepped up for any politically risky position.

Neither has run a totally clean campaign.

To be honest, i am not sure how they could… other than race, sex and age.. all taboo subjects in america… they aren’t all that different.

For every indignant charge of dirty campaigning leveled at Hillary there are at least that number if not more that are never leveled at Obama.

This is what i end up fighting and it is making my stomach turn.

I am appalled at the way democrats have let the republican agenda write the talking points for this campaign.

I am appalled at the way they are controlling the process.. starting with the early primary in Florida that was engineered by the republicans tieing paper receipts for voting to an early primary. … And following right into the Obama campaign co-opting republican labels for Hillary as part of their campaign… and enthusiastically cooperating with the anti-Hillary bias in the media.. going so far as to feed them information.

I know this is campaigning… and it is effective campaigning.. but you can’t muddy the face of the other candidate unless you are willing to be muddied yourself…

and this is what i see wrong with the Obama campaign. their attitude is mudslinging is ok.. she deserves it.. but he doesn’t.. so it’s your responsibility to be indignant if any mud gets near him.

Kayleigh :~ (

“It’s cool to count your spouse’s experience, your teen job in the mailroom, your lemonade stand at age 5, and your twenty minutes at the nonprofit sector as “experience in public service” ..

this is one of the most sexist and dismissive things i have ever heard out of any political campaign…

and yes, i know Obama’s campaign didn’t put all those ideas together for you.. but the right biased press and Obama’s campaign have given you each and every one of those.

I know. they come to my house too.

I suppose Obama had to do something to counter Hillary’s real experience …

have you forgotten that Hillary fundraised for Obama’s campaign? And for the campaigns of most Democrats who have passed through congress in the last 20+ years…

Have you forgotten that she and bill cemented their personal relationship over campaigning in texas… long before either of them was a candidate for anything?

have you forgotten that at the time Bill and Hill formed their private and public political partnership he had a much better chance than she did of being elected for anything… their partnership worked effectively.. and only when one partner’s ambitions were exceeded did the other pursue hers.

This is and always has been a partnership… and as anyone can tell you in any partnership.. the person whose name is on the door doesn’t do all of the work.

shame on you for dismissing her hard work that way. shame on you.

And shame on Obama’s campaign for feeding you that drivel… feeding anger and hate.

how does that correspond with the candidate you think you are supporting?

It is no coincidence that those who support Hillary unilaterally assert loudly that they will support the democratic candidate in the fall no matter who that candidate is.

I think it is also no coincidence that Obama supporters don’t.

Who do you think really has the good of the party firmly in mind? Or.. the good of the country for that matter.

I am not going to spend all of my time responding to this drivel…

I think Hillary is the best person for the job because when it comes to problems that ordinary American’s face, she looks for solutions that actually address the problem… not window dressing legislation that creates one more law to be enforced only when the problem gets enough publicity.

as in Clinton’s 2007 proposed legislation… mtg (truth in lending disclosure laws) and lead paint (tax credits for the removal of lead based paint)

Obama’s proposed 2007 legislation on the same issues… Mtg (laws making mtg fraud illegal .. ) and lead paint (laws restricitng lead paint on toys … )…

Fraud is already illegal… all fraud.. including mtg fraud… it’s proving intentional fraud that is difficult.. as the FBI is currently finding our regarding mtg fraud … and it is already a health hazard to coat toys with lead based paint.. a legal matter that i think is working it’s ways through the court as we speak.

will those laws add teeth to current legislation? possibly. Will they have an immediate effect on either mtg fraud or companies importing toys with lead paint? No, they won’t. They may deter.. but they won’t create immediate relief.

these, by the way, were examples cited by an opinion piece linked in this thread by an Obama supporter…

I support Hillary because she fights tirelessly for legislation that will actually help women and children.. especially legislation that will help poor women and children… a priority she has maintained internationally for decades.

I support Hillary because she listens.. when a group of retired military offered to brief candidates early in the campaign about the middle east and military options… a briefing that all of the democratic candidates attended.. including OBama.. she and Biden were the only two who stayed after to ask more questions and clarify options.

I support Hillary because she delegates. She has been criticized for mismanaging her campaign because she delegated tasks and gave her people both responsibility and authority to complete them.

I support Hillary because she is actually willing to work across party lines for something she believes in… and she has proven that in her congressional career..

I support Hillary because her fellow congressmen said this about her in her first term… she really works to understand the process and is willing to do what it takes to get the job done.

Obama’s fellow congressmen said this about him…

he really inspires people.. he personifies hope.

Do i know that Hillary has flaws? You bet.

Do i think she has made mistakes? Yup.

Do i think she will make more? Of course.

Do i think she has learned from her past mistakes and will learn from those she has yet to make? yes, i do.

And i didn’t have to accuse Obama or label him to say any of that…

excepting of course, the Obama campaign’s non-stop labeling and accusations against Hillary… and i don’t consider that doing anything other than naming the other elephant in this campaign… the contrast between the Obama campaign’s claim to running a clean campaign and their actual tactics.

I hope it’s still nice enough outside for another walk. I’ve been at this keyboard too long.

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[Anonymous]

I’m surprised it took this long for the Obama camp to start hollering about race. Get used to it folks, I’m sure we will see a lot more of this behavior. Racism is still here (as much as no one would like to admit it), but not the way you think it is.

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[Kayleigh]

9. Hillary supporters are strong, well-read independent thinkers, while anyone who criticizes her is a mindless repeater of right wing nonsense and/or just afraid of a ‘strong’ woman.

10. Hillary can betray the party by attacking Obama and helping the Republicans, but the Democrats better support and vote for her if she gets the nomination or *they’re* betraying the party.

It’s all good. I’m learning now. I’ll just keep repeating these rules over and over again so I can be correct in my thinking.

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[JanS]

so…is it time for that “let’s talk about McCain” thread yet? I’ll just bet he loves all this inside squabbling…..

I’ll start…here’s an interesting read today (remember it’s the media, so that grain of salt should always be there…..but..)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080312/pl_bloomberg/apzut4blweek

and maybe we could take this to a new thread, and stop bashing each other here? I find it refreshing, to say the least, that there is passion about the dem candidates on both sides. How often have we experienced that in the last 20 or so years? I would be so much more upset if the responses from you all were just a matter-of-fact “whatever”…

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[Anonymous]

Kayleigh – It is hilarious to me that you are implying JoB is brainwashed. You are extremely passionate about your support of Obama, almost to the extent of frantic! You are so angry and negative (I think that is the word another member used), that if anyone has been brainwashed here, it certainly isn’t JoB.

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[Anonymous]

JanS – I am all for starting that “Go McCain” thread, but to be honest, I think I’m secretly kinda waiting for House to take the initiative. I definitely know when someone is smarter than myself and more eloquent.

House, you out there?

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[JanS]

well, the point of the McCain thread wouldn’t exactly be “Go McCain”…unless we meant it as “go away” – lol. The House, if I understand from previous postings, isn’t exactly crazy about the Rep. candidate (correct me, Jon, if I’m wrong)…

I just think it’s time for the Dem. supporters to put the attention where it’s gonna be needed real soon…the opposite party…and leave the picayune ( I don’t really mean to belittle the arguments pro and con) squabbles to be worked out. We will have a Dem. candidate…one or the other…and we WILL have to support that candidate no matter what…it’s time to unite…

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[Anonymous]

I agree that all Dems should unite, regardless of their candidate, if they have any chance of winning.

I, too, am not ecstatic about McCain, but your link was refreshing in the sense that, here is someone making their own stance on issues.

At least McCain is out there DOING something and not just squabbling over words in some interview.

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[Kayleigh]

NewResident, I am actually an Edwards supporter, so you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m trying to adopt the pro-Hillary thinking. It’s been hard, but I’m coming around now, thanks to being insulted and treated to long-winded irrational defenses of her.

In fact, I think I’m going to go write her a campaign donation check now. To honor her brilliance, strength, and support of the party.

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[Anonymous]

Your sarcasm is not cute or funny. I am not a Democrat, but I admire JoB. And for not even being an Obama supporter, you sure got yourself in a tizzy.

Listen, I don’t want to go down this road, Kayleigh. I just don’t think there is a need to be so one sided and defensive. You feel strongly about Obama and what he can accomplish, that’s understood. But don’t come down on JoB because of her posts. They are always informative and well written, which is appreciated by someone who enjoys reading all viewpoints.

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[Anonymous]

BTW, when were you insulted?

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[villagegreen]

A fair amount of saracasm and the occasional insult is endemic to most blogs. This is actually one of the most polite blogs I’ve ever read. Seattlites in general need to ‘toughen up’ (as JoB would say). Not everyone is going to play nice all the time. Deal with it.

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[JoB]

i am a sad sad woman. I just heard on BBC that Geraldine Ferraro has resigned as finance director of the Clinton campaign due to the public furor over the misrepresentation of her remarks.

A furor created by the Obama campaign.

I am not happy with Hillary for accepting her resignation. There is a time to say enough is enough… and i think she should have.

It’s too d…m bad i care enough about this election to work regardless of the democratic candidate because i sure don’t respect Mr Obama very much.

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[Author]

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