Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Puppies for Sale Today? – Is this ok?
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February 13, 2012 at 10:36 pm #748042
luckymom30ParticipantHopey you have established yourself to be a very respected and trustworthy dog breeder, but I still argue that selling puppies, kitties, bunnies or whatever along the side of the road, even from a truck or in a grocert store parking lot is not illegal. Doing so is not always a red flag for an animal breeder gone bad. doing so does not make one a dog breeder. I am glad you are looking out for the welfare for animals and that is to be commmended. In your mind is everyone to go through a dog breeder to sell there puppies?
February 13, 2012 at 10:38 pm #748043
hopeyParticipantk-man, I would actually prefer to see those puppies given to a Humane Society or other rescue organization. That way the families who adopt the puppies can be screened, and if they are old enough the puppies can be spayed/neutered before the families take them home.
Other than that, yes, better the puppies be given some chance at life in a happy home rather than complete abandonment. I still don’t think what they are doing is ethical though.
February 13, 2012 at 10:43 pm #748044
hopeyParticipantluckymom — as I said above, no. Families who are ready and able to take on the (potential) challenge of a shelter dog, or who receive a placement from a rescue organization — that is fantastic! There is room for all of us, in my opinion. Everyone has different capabilities and different needs. I regularly refer people to my breed’s rescue group. If a shelter dog works for you, then great! If not, then I would ask people to look for and work with a reputable breeder as I described above. Either way is fine by me. :)
February 13, 2012 at 11:11 pm #748045
anonymeParticipantGo through a breeder, or better yet, a rescue group. IMO, ALL pets should be neutered. The only exception should be licensed breeders.
Any parent who thinks it’s cool to allow a pet to have puppies or kittens so that the kiddies can experience “the wonder of birth” should then take them to the observe the natural and inevitable consequence – the death chambers at the kill shelters, where millions of these innocent animals end up each year.
February 14, 2012 at 5:15 am #748046
hammerheadParticipantAnonyme
YOU ROCK MY WORLD.
FCAT
Luckymom, it is JUST plain irresponsible to be selling puppies or kittens out of back of a vehicle.
February 14, 2012 at 7:08 am #748047
hopeyParticipantTo bring this discussion full circle… For those interested in adopting a chihuahua, Seattle Humane has rescued 42 chihuahuas from California, and they are ready for adoption. All are spayed/neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and behavior tested. Many adoptions come with a free 6-week training class — and the trainers at Seattle Humane in Bellevue are quite good. (I have taken my puppies to their trainer-supervised puppy playtimes.) You can expect to be interviewed by a staff member before adoption. And adoption fees are currently half off for Valentine’s Day! More information here: http://www.seattlehumane.org/adopt/in-news/life-saver-program
February 15, 2012 at 12:18 am #748048
RainierMemberHopey, I am not letting you off the hook. Of course you are affecting shelter animals by breeding-you are not an island. Thank you for quoting NAIA, a group that hides behind the label Animal Welfare, but its board members are animal researchers, breeders, Vice President of the parent company to Ringling Bros.,those who are associated with the racetrack industry including teaching “the effect the animal rights organizations have on racing”, CEO of United Egg Producers, ranchers, hunters, and promoters of rodeos. They like to use the words “extreme” and “radical” to dismiss others efforts in actually promoting animal welfare. The page you linked us to shares NAIAs view on shelter pets: “The chain of thought that blames the production of purebred puppies for the death of an unwanted mongrel in an animal shelter..” Need I say more? Well I will. Even in their efforts to downplay how many pets are killed in shelters every year, they can’t help but say ” there’s no doubt that breeders and fanciers can help alleviate that tragedy”. According to their OWN numbers, there are fewer shelter pets needing homes than pets being adopted. How can that be? Because shelter pets are competing with breeders, whether backyard or mill. In response to your numbers regarding why people give up their pets: behaviour and allergies are two of the top excuses; that only means that is the box the owner is checking as they are dumping off their pet. Nobody confirms these claims. You may feel less culpable in that you are not the biggest problem, but you are a contributing factor. As William Wilberforce said, “You may choose to look the other way but you can never say again that you did not know.”
February 15, 2012 at 5:28 pm #748049
hopeyParticipantRainier, it is obvious from the way you write that there will be no discussion with you. Calling real issues like allergies “excuses” makes this very clear. You have your point of view and nothing will change your mind, so I’m not going to take the time to formulate a thoughtful response to your knee-jerk reply.
I am a professional, ethical dog breeder. My customers and other dog lovers have told me that they appreciate my high standards. Nothing is going to shake my conviction that there is room in this world for shelter adoptions, rescue groups, and ethical breeding to coexist.
February 15, 2012 at 8:28 pm #748050
kootchmanMemberSpoken like a true capitalist trying to preserve market share and economic self interest.
February 15, 2012 at 8:34 pm #748051
hopeyParticipantNo, it sounds like someone who knows better than to waste time tilting at windmills. :)
February 15, 2012 at 8:46 pm #748052
RainierMemberIf by “the way you write” you mean factual, then I suppose you’re right. I cited facts and statements on a website you referenced and give credence to but you still plug your ears. I knew you would dig in your heels which is why I quoted William Wilberforce. I hope his words stick with you.
February 15, 2012 at 9:48 pm #748053
DBPMemberI don’t understand how this thread could have ended up pitting two good people (who both obviously care about animal welfare) against each other . . .
It’s clear that people who breed animals irresponsibly are contributing to the problem of overpopulation; no one denies that. But are hopey and people like her (?) to be numbered among the ranks of the problem causers? Seems like not.
hopey, you’ve taken pains to explain the difference between responsible and irresponsible breeders to us, and I thank you for that.
As I understand it, you raise healthy, well-adjusted animals that are likely to find good homes. If a buyer of one of your dogs cannot keep the dog for some reason, then you will gladly take the dog back and find another home for it. Right?
—So in that sense, at least, responsible breeders like yourself are not contributing to the shelter problem, because your animals do not end up in shelters in the first place.
But wait . . . by supplying more dogs for the market, isn’t hopey causing shelter animals that might otherwise find good homes to stay in shelters, where they will eventually be put down?
—I doubt it, and here’s why: Breeders like hopey cater to a niche market that is looking for a certain special kind of product. Comparing your average shelter animal to a properly bred and socialized animal is like comparing apples to kumquats. Even when you’re comparing breed to breed, the market for breeder-supplied animals is totally different from the market for shelter animals.
Let’s take chihuahuas for example, since someone mentioned the large number of chihuahuas in shelters right now. Think about it: If a prospective chihuahua buyer has several hundred dollars to spend, and he’s looking for a healthy, well-socialized animal from a responsible breeder, do you think he’s going to go for a pound-rescue dog instead? Seems doubtful. Seems to me like if you ban legitimate breeders, the customer who wants a good chihuahuah from a legit breeder will just go dog-less rather than picking up a shelter animal.
So I’m with hopey on this one, but what I really wanted to say is that the animal lovers on this forum should be supporting each other and not fighting. Remember: the rest of us are looking to YOU for leadership, so we’d appreciate it if you were a little more united yourselves.
—David
February 15, 2012 at 10:07 pm #748054
hopeyParticipantThanks so much for your kind words, DBP. I really appreciate it.
February 15, 2012 at 10:16 pm #748055
kootchmanMemberI know a “person”.. who joined the English Bulldog craze. Went to the breeder, all of the stuff. Lo and behold… the poor thing is left out in the yard all day…is not allowed in the house. But they have a top o’ the line, pedigreed, dog who is poorly socialized, and lives a very drab life. The novelty wore off quick.
February 15, 2012 at 10:39 pm #748056
GoGoParticipantSomeone needs to go get that dog and find it a good home. That kind of thing makes me SO mad!
February 15, 2012 at 11:22 pm #748057
oddrealityParticipantEnglish Bulldogs are a bit nuts.People should research before they buy any dog or cat or pet.
Our Bulldog is insanely wild sometimes and he will be the only Bulldog we ever have for that reason.Well that and the gas and the belches and the spittle all over everything..even the ceiling.We can handle the snoring.
Oh yeah~~We never leave him outside and he is spoiled rotten.
I do hope someone can get that EB out of there. They are not at all suited to being outside all the time and really need to be around people.SO people oriented that breed. Breaks my heart to think of him out in the yard.
Why don’t they return the dog to the breeder?
It should be illegal to sell pets by the roadside. At the very least licensing and inspections .
February 15, 2012 at 11:25 pm #748058
DBPMember>>I know a “person”.. who joined the English Bulldog craze. Went to the breeder, all of the stuff. Lo and behold… the poor thing is left out in the yard all day…is not allowed in the house.
—Well, in this case there was a problem with the breeder, with the buyer, or both. But this is why the interview is such an important part of the process. An ethical bulldog breeder would have asked the prospective owner: “Why do you want a dog? Why do you want this kind of dog? What do you know about this breed? What is your experience with animals generally?” Etc.
Hell, even the shelters would ask at least that many questions . . .
No, it’s not fail-safe. But then, what is?
February 16, 2012 at 12:34 am #748059
hammerheadParticipantkootch: If you know this “person” well enough to ask if the guy wants to rid of the dog let me know.
February 16, 2012 at 1:36 am #748060
CandrewB1ParticipantI know a guy who realized a Boston Terrier was for him. He went to a breeder and bought a 3 yr old female spent from breeding purposes. He has proceeded to give her the best eight years (and counting) of her life and is a much-beloved member of the family.
February 16, 2012 at 2:43 am #748061
anonymeParticipantCandrewB1, I have very mixed feelings about your post. While it’s good news that the Boston has had 8 good years with a family, I find the fact that a 3-year-old dog was “spent” from breeding to be quite disturbing. Maybe that was your point.
February 16, 2012 at 5:44 am #748062
singularnameParticipantTori … There’s nothing “fishy” about what you describe.
February 16, 2012 at 6:15 am #748063
hopeyParticipantanonyme, I would prefer to think it was just a poor choice of words. Many breeders will breed a girl until a certain age, or a certain number of litters, then have her spayed and make her available as a pet. Whether that age is three years or six years is up to the individual breeder. Most veterinarians agree that female dogs should not be bred past six or seven years of age, so it’s unreasonable to think that a breeder could keep all of their older females (and males!) once they are retired. Breeders get a fair amount of inquiries asking for an older dog rather than a puppy. Re-homing a retired breeding dog is a win-win-win situation for everyone, including the dog, who can spend the rest of her days as a cherished family pet.
February 16, 2012 at 6:29 am #748064
KBearParticipantThis thread has gotten way off the tracks. There’s no reason to vilify professional breeders. To suggest that they are somehow complicit in the animal abuse perpetrated by roadside puppy mill sales is uncalled for.
February 16, 2012 at 2:33 pm #748065
anonymeParticipanthopey, I’m very familiar with the process of adopting out older purebred animals. I’ve adopted one or two myself, including greyhound broods. I usually try to adopt older animals, especially the ones likely to be looked over. My concern, as stated, was that the dog was described as “spent” at 3 years of age. That doesn’t sound like responsible breeding to me.
February 16, 2012 at 3:03 pm #748066
mehud7ParticipantKBear-We don’t know that the woman selling the puppies at Alaska and Fauntleroy was running a puppy mill. My point is that for every puppy, kitten, dog, or cat that is sold by ANYONE who breeds, one in a shelter doesn’t find a home and is killed.
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