NON-Service Dogs in grocery stores and restaurants

[SueY]

Please, please, please, STOP bringing your non-service dog (emotional therapy dogs ARE NOT service dogs) into grocery stores and restaurants! I don’t get this new trend. You are making it really hard for people who genuinely need and use a service dog to not be looked at with suspicion when so many of you are clearly flaunting the law. What happened to leaving the dog tied up outside the store, left in your car, or OH MY GOD, here’s a concept, leave the dog at home!

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[littlebrowndog]

Due to how common this is I am increasingly wishing ADA would start requiring certification. I would like to see a requirement for a medical statement that states the person has a disability that is genuinely a disability covered by ADA (mild carpal tunnel in your non-dominant hand, for example, probably does not rise to that level). The statement should only need to be that the person has a disability covered by ADA and that the person has need of a service dog to mitigate the disability, and not what the disability is. Along with that should be a required evaluation of the dog’s perfect obedience skills and passage of the Canine Good Citizen test. Then the dog and handler should receive a certificate that would need to be shown upon request. This would not preclude either self-trained or professionally trained service dogs. A city or a state cannot currently have this requirement as it is more restrictive than ADA requirements and ADA requirements trump local ones. As a former service dog user I am pretty tired of ill mannered pets being passed off as service dogs. And yes, if your pet dog does something like sniff my leg as I pass by then it is not a properly trained service dog unless you have given it the release command.

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[JoB]

littlebrowndog

neither of my dogs would pass an evaluation for perfect obedience skills yet both serve as service dogs.. each for a different condition.

and.. they were never “trained” to do so… but they sure do save my bacon on occasion… and i am grateful for that.

that said.. my dogs are left in the car or if it is too hot at home when i am in public spaces.

but… the conditions my dogs alert me to are not immediately life threatening so i have that luxury.

instead of putting even more burdens on people with disabilities..

how about we put the burden back where it belongs.. on the entitled with small minds and even smaller hearts who think our laws don’t pertain to them?

public and civil courtesy seem to have died a quiet death… more laws won’t change that.

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[littlebrowndog]

JoB, I would love to put the burden where it belongs, but those people are so self-centered and entitled that they are not going to do the right thing,becaus they take total advantage of the fact that all they have to do is say “yes, my dog is a service dog” and “my dog is trained to do X” if queried and they have no qualms whatsoever about doing that—and even laugh about it. Now that there are more and more legitimate service dogs for more and more types of disabilities these bogus people know that they can make all sorts of claims with impunity. Long gone are the days of only guide dogs and dogs for assisting people with visible physical issues, so it is easy to claim an “invisible disability”. And no, I am definitely NOT saying that is you!!!! Mine is also “invisible”. But I cannot see any way of stopping these imposters short of certification. I would not give a darn if they had no impact on those of us who do use real service dogs.

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[anonyme]

This behavior has become rampant. I don’t see why it would be a violation of anyone’s “rights” to require that real service dogs wear a special, visible license on their collars certifying that they are required for a physical condition. I don’t see why this is any different than parking in a disabled spot with no documentation of disability, and claiming you needed to park there for emotional reasons. Wouldn’t fly, would it? Emotional disabilities are real and serious, but this type of exploitation marginalizes these conditions even further.

BTW, not only is it unsafe for the dog to be tied up outside a business, it’s against the law most places (mostly for blocking the right-of-way).

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[littlebrowndog]

there are lots of disabilities that fall ouside the realm of “physical disabilities” for which service dogs are legitimate ays to mitigate the disability. Many are not visible ones. There is such a thing as legitimate psychiatric service dogs and they are not the same as emotional support dogs. They perform specific tasks, not just provide comfort. ADA is very clear that emotional support dogs are not service dogs.

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[skeeter]

I too am bothered by dogs in stores, restaurants, etc. I wish all service animals would wear an identifying garment (like a green cloth) so store owners could more properly enforce rules.

A sort of strange (to me) shift happened over the past 20~ish years. Dogs went from being pets to being family members. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to people bringing pets to work (all day!) or bringing pets to parties. Even when we had dogs I’ve always preferred the company of humans to the company of pets.

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[JoB]

This is a difficult thing…

the problem is not people who get great benefit from service dogs

the problem is people who abuse the benefits given to disabled people

and there are a lot of those people laughing at the way they are “working” the system

those people make it harder and harder for actual disabled people to function. they fill our parking spaces preventing us from accessing everything from our doctor’s office to shops and restaurants… and they make it difficult for us to legitimately ask for services.

in the state of Washington you have to carry an identification card that goes with your disabled parking permit or you could face the fine for unlawful use of a disabled parking space.

A similar card could be provided for people with legitimate service animals… but i would like to see the issuance of that card based on a physician’s statement.. just as our disabled parking placards are.. not on an outside agency that certifies our pets as service animals.

Service animals are not always a one size fits all deal and if your animal doesn’t fit “the” criteria you don’t get the standardized service requirements you could be denied legitimate service….

In my case, one of my dogs is very good at alerting me to the possibility of TIAs.. basically mini strokes… and the other alerts me to imminent collapse…

i don’t know if either dog would alert any other individual suffering from similar conditions nor do i think that if i lost one of my dogs the other would start alerting me to the condition they had previously ignored.

And i am facing that. I am likely to lose the dog that alerts me to imminent collapse .. which is the condition that occurs more often… soon. She has cancer that is not responding to treatment.

i am lucky that both dogs know when i am in trouble long before i do.. so their alerts can be given before i find myself in trouble in public..

but that might not always be the case… and i am not sure how i am supposed to find another dog that can alert me to when i am about to simply collapse and stop functioning from an illness whose cause is still unidentified.

both of my dogs are self taught and i am pretty sure their service is unique to me.

i don’t abuse the few privileges my handicap gives me.. and i really hate that some people think it’s cool to pretend a handicap because they don’t think it’s fair that someone else gets to do something they don’t.

and it’s not just parking or service dogs that are affected.

the abuse of handicapped privileges by people who are not handicapped has really gone too far.

for instance… when i travel i often ask for preboarding because it is very difficult for me to stand in lines … and even if i get to my seat without passing out and missing the flight.. after standing in line that long i am pretty much guaranteed to be in too much pain to easily get out of it at the other end.

i seldom ask for a wheelchair unless we have a connecting flight in less than an hour. It’s better for me to walk if i can.

this weekend when i asked for preboarding the gate agent asked if i had proof of disability and said that in able to give me preboarding, he was now required to order a wheelchair for me at the other end even if i didn’t use it.

i told him i had both my handicapped parking placard and the card that went with it and asked what i was supposed to do about the wheelchair if i didn’t need it.

i nearly didn’t ask for pre-boarding because the wheelchair shows up whether you need it or not and your only recourse is to ask the gate agent to notify the person pushing it that you don’t need it.. which i did.

But… that person relies on tip income.. which they don’t get if they show up and there is no-one to drive.. and in most airports they are on a rotation schedule which means that they literally have to wait in a scheduled line to get another passenger… And… there is no way to tip them for showing up except waiting for the person who says they are waiting for you :(

before all of this abuse, i could simply ask a flight attendant to order me a wheelchair at any time during the flight if i felt i needed one… now i am being asked to order one whether i need it or not :(

the catch 22 in the current situation is that if i don’t get preboarding it’s pretty certain that i will have to ask for a wheelchair at the other end… but i might not get preboarding if i don’t require one to meet me.

this is not a win win for either me or the airport supplying services for the disabled.

And it’s due entirely to people abusing handicapped services at the airport…

not a good thing.

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[Ms. Sparkles]

Isn’t the real problem ill-behaved dogs – service or otherwise?

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Would you mind a dog being present if it were well behaved, regardless of whether or not it’s person had any sort disability? It probably wouldn’t register with you at all.

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I understand why people abuse the system; health codes regarding whom the business serves are outdated. An ill toddler is more harmful to patrons health than a well behaved dog…yet the dog is only allowed if you call it a service animal.

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[Diane]

no, it’s not just about dog behavior

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it is about health

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and about breaking the law

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I cannot stand dogs in grocery stores, especially sitting their poopy butts in the grocery cart

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I do not care how well-behaved

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just stop it

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[skeeter]

That’s a good point Ms. Sparkles. Why is a badly behaved toddler allowed in a grocery store, but a perfectly behaved dog is not allowed?

I suppose the answer is the same as why our tax code gives a deduction for a child but not for a dog. Society has decided that children provide greater social utility than dogs and therefore we offer special benefits to children that we don’t offer to pets.

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[Diane]

oh dear god, do NOT go back to the ridiculous argument of comparing human children to pets

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dogs are not the same as human children, at all

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[Ms. Sparkles]

Diane no one is saying they are. I’m simply pointing out that the health code regarding dogs doesn’t make sense.

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Your first post says it’s about the law and health. I’m just pointing out that both are misguided when it comes to dogs.

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Dogs are no more unhygienic than small humans – not to say they’re the same, but if we’re cutting to the heart of the laws, then dirty / sick people should be banned from public places too…but that’s not practical.

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My point is that if it’s not practical to ban dirty / sick humans, and they’re more of a health risk than dogs, then why are we still banning dogs? It just doesn’t pass the critical thinking test.

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[Diane]

uh, yes; skeeter compared dogs to human children; that deeply offends me

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[Diane]

dogs’ poopy butts in grocery carts; disgusting, and health hazard

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I have yet to see a naked child’s butt in the grocery cart

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and no matter on what premise you try to argue, comparing human children to dogs is offensive

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[KBear]

DIane, you misread Skeeter’s comment, or you didn’t read it all the way through. He’s explaining that dogs AREN’T like children.

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[JKB]

Plus I think you mean “equating dogs with children is offensive”. Comparing them is straightforward, with most people agreeing on the result.

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[skeeter]

I re-read my post #11. What was offensive about it Diane?

My intention was to participate in the conversation and offer my thoughts. I apologize if it made anyone uncomfortable. That was not my intent.

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[KBear]

One time I actually saw a dog taking a dump in a shopping cart as a woman was pushing the cart out of the store. She didn’t clean it up. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a service dog.

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[SullivanAAT]

The more I read this the more reasons I prefer my dogs company over humans. So what if someone brings their dog into the store, unless they are obviously aggressive or dirty then just go about your day. Dogs are probably cleaner than half of the humans coughing and having poor hygiene before they touch the fruit that your eating and door handles your touching. Way more offending things to be getting bent out of shape about!

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[SniperKitty]

Dogs are animals, not people, and they do not belong in the grocery store/restaurant/workplace.

It is clearly against the rules to bring a dog who is not a service animal into the store, but some dog owners feel that they are above the rules and somehow think everyone else loves their animals as much as they do.

I am so tired of dogs. I stepped in dog crap in my front yard last week. Two days later I stepped in dog crap in a community center play field. I always hear about “responsible” dog owners, but EVERY time I go to the park/beach/play fields, there is at least one (usually more) person out there with a dog, and it is almost always off-leash.

I am not a fan of dogs, but I can tolerate them; however, at some point dog owners need to realize that not everyone wants your animal around them. Some people have been attacked in the past and are intimidated by them. Some are allergic to them. Some people simply find dogs to be annoying and just don’t want them jumping on them.

I don’t want them running up to me when I’m walking with my family. I don’t want them chasing after me while I’m exercising in the community center play fields which post signs that clearly state that no dogs are allowed. And I am definitely sick of dogs in stores that have signage on the front door barring non-service animals from the store.

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[JoB]

if all dog owners were responsible we wouldn’t be having this discussion…

but they aren’t. some dog owners think that any law which separates them however briefly from their pets shouldn’t exist

and they have no compunction abusing disability rights to justify breaking the law.

what’s responsible about that?

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[Greystreet]

I wonder if all the energy people on this blog put into shaming dog owners from every angle was redirected at the transit system if traffic would get better?

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[wakeflood]

Yes, dog owners are SO put upon in our city. Enjoying your pity party?

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[wakeflood]

And since you asked, I spend about 10hrs. a month working on West Seattle transportation advocacy. You?

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