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October 15, 2011 at 4:15 am #600900
ezzomr191ParticipantMaybe all the people complaining they can’t find a job just don’t like real work?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016507956_gregoire15m.html
October 15, 2011 at 5:11 am #737249
hammerheadParticipantit isn’t that “perfect” job, but it would be a job, if one physically fit do it.
October 15, 2011 at 5:19 am #737250
dobroParticipant“it isn’t that “perfect” job, but it would be a job…” Well, can’t argue with that logic.
It says in the article that they’d pay 120-150 dollars a day. I wonder if they pay that much to migrant laborers?
Maybe all the people complaining they can’t find a job might like one that pays a living wage and lasts longer than 3 weeks.
October 15, 2011 at 6:41 am #737251
metrognomeParticipantwell, you oughta pass this hot job tip on to Rick Perry; his wife blames Obama for their son losing his job … he worked for Deutsche Bank and new SEC regulations *supposedly* prevented him from working there and campaigning with his father.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/anita-perry-blames-obama-for-sons-job-loss/
October 15, 2011 at 8:29 am #737252
kootchmanMemberAnd how do you think they will appear? How many thousands of full time jobs have appeared from a temporary one? Worse thing that can happen is a little experience, some exposure, and some money. You play some odds, and then you start down the path. Whatever happens after that is on you.
October 15, 2011 at 1:29 pm #737253
anonymeParticipantI already work in a similar field, for a lot less money. I’d do the work willingly, if not for age and a lack of transportation.
That is not generally the case, however. One of the largest commercial wholesale nurseries in our area tried for years to hire locally. Most workers wouldn’t last a week. They finally gave up and brought in permanent housing for documented Mexican workers. It really is an unfortunate fact that most Americans just won’t do such tedious work, and nursery work is a breeze compared to picking.
October 15, 2011 at 10:12 pm #737254
dawsonctParticipantIt’s a myth that American workers won’t work in fields. It is, however, a fact that American factory farms (and the few family farmers who have somehow survived) pay the lowest wages they can get away with.
Labor shortages are good for workers; their wages start to rise to reflect both the demand for their labor as well as the profits realized FROM their labor.
Good for the workers. More money in their pockets means the places they spend their money will need to hire workers, who will spend their money at places who will hire MORE workers.
THAT is REAL trickle-down economics!
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Ya see, you give an already outrageously wealthy person a few extra millions of dollars a year, they won’t suddenly start consuming more, they just have more money to stash away in off-shore accounts. You give a middle-class and working-class more money, and they will spend most of it, creating demand for goods and services that must be met by hiring more workers.
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It seems so simple, but I guess your leaders have you convinced that if we give enough of our collective wealth to the wealthy, they will turn around and, what? Make us ALL wealthy, out of gratitude?
You people live in a fantasy world.
October 15, 2011 at 10:59 pm #737255
DBPMemberYah, dawson, but that’s the 30,000-foot view. In the meantime, how is it gonna help anyone to let the apples rot on the trees while people go hungry and $150-a-day jobs go unfilled?
It would behoove the apple growers to advertise in the nearby cities and towns for workers and offer to help with transportation and maybe even housing. It’s just not realistic for them to expect some unemployed person in Seattle to up and move to Yakima for a three-week job. It’d be a net loss.
I agree with dobro’s implication on this one.
October 16, 2011 at 1:16 pm #737256
anonymeParticipantGood point, DBP. It’s one thing to take a 3 week job that allows one to return home in the evening, but having to live somewhere else for a period of time is way more expensive than being home. Add kids to the mix, and it becomes virtually impossible – unless you’re already living in your car.
Dawsonct, I disagree that it’s a myth that Americans won’t work in fields. There are some that will, but those comprise only a fraction of the labor needed. It sounds like you’re suggesting that migrant laborers steal jobs from Americans – also a myth, IMHO.
October 16, 2011 at 2:43 pm #737257
kootchmanMemberIsn’t it a great country? It’s better to be jobless than go where there is work. Jeesh I’ve left home for a few weeks at a time… with no guarantee of any income for the trip. Single parent?.. that would be tough. But I am guessing there are plenty of single or two parent homes that could use the cash. Bus trip over is about $20? Most migrant laborers get housing … picking is 6 days a week.. couple weeks come home with 1500? How much pickers get paid is part availability of labor and part market price… if market prices are so low .. sometimes ya just let em’ drop to the ground, or plow the crop under.
October 16, 2011 at 2:52 pm #737258
WDParticipantI’d take that job in Wenatchee to pay off my student loans earlier in a heartbeat, but it’s not worth it. First I’d have to leave my full-time job here, which I can’t afford to do, because although it barely pays me enough to live on, it still pays the bills. Then the expense to get over there, plus pay for shelter and food (don’t have a camper or car big enough to sleep in), that $120 a week would be gone and the point of the job would be “fruitless.” If I lived in that area though, I’d jump at it.
October 16, 2011 at 3:51 pm #737259
metrognomeParticipantand the reality of our immigration/migrant workers policy (or lack thereof) begins to hit home. I wonder if peoples’ opinions will change when apples hit $5 a pound.
Just tried to find an actual job posting and couldn’t. The ST article doesn’t mention whether the daily wage of $120 – 150 is after taxes or whether the picker is treated like a contractor and is expected to pay federal taxes and social security deductions out of that money. I suspect the second. Also doesn’t mention housing is provided. If you pay taxes, plus paying lodging, food, etc., not a lot of money left.
Kootch, I’m guessing your not a farmer and I’m glad you’re not in charge of our agricultural policy.
October 16, 2011 at 4:22 pm #737260
dobroParticipantI’m sure he walked 10 miles back and forth to school in the snow, too. Kids these days…they just don’t know what work is!! :)
October 16, 2011 at 6:12 pm #737261
dawsonctParticipantTrue enough that historically many of our field workers were recent immigrants and migrant workers. I don’t see that as something likely to change. It is one path to eventual citizenship or to a better life back in a workers home country. In the restaurant industry, many of my fellow workers are planning on being here just long enough to get money to start a business back home, or educate their children. I feel that is a fair trade-off for their labor. I AM bothered by the willingness of an unscrupulous segment of our society to overlook the illegality of some, simply as a convenience to drive down labor costs.
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Agreed DBP, but other than this one story, I haven’t seen anything about this. Sounds like the orchardists need to increase the incentives to attract workers. One of those “supply and demand” things. Maybe they need to have a jobs fair at Bread of Life Mission, or set up a table at the employment office. Bus leaves in two days, housing provided, guaranteed minimums, RETURN transportation.
Unemployment is astronomical in America’s rural counties, where are those folks?
October 16, 2011 at 6:53 pm #737262
JanSParticipantdobro…uphill in the snow, both ways :)
October 16, 2011 at 7:58 pm #737263
JoBParticipantkootch…
bus tickets from here to spokane run 40+ one way
train tickets 80+
migrant housing is pretty much a thing of the past
and if it wasn’t
that is deducted from your wages at costs set by the grower
for substandard housing
we have heard this story before
you really should read the Grapes of Wrath
October 17, 2011 at 6:27 am #737264
ezzomr191ParticipantI can see that it would be hard for certain people to take a job like this, especially if you had to travel or were a single parent. I wouldn’t leave a full time job, but I would take a job like this if I was closer, but I’ve put my time in on a dairy farm, so I’m not shy about work.
I think my point was opportunities do exist like this, and despite them being temporary, they pay the bills while you look for a better job. Made me wonder where the rural-unemployed were as well Dawson …
October 17, 2011 at 6:39 am #737265
dobroParticipantThere’s a little something I think folks are missing about this “job” deal. People seem to think you can just waltz in and pick some apples and pocket some dough. Although farm labor may be categorized as unskilled, that’s BS. Take someone who’s not done this work (probably a lot of your “rural unemployed”) and stand them next to an experienced farm laborer and they’ll be eating that guy’s dust.
These jobs don’t pay the bills unless you can work very fast, very hard, don’t damage the fruit, and don’t take breaks. That’s what migrant farm workers do. A lot of it is piecework-you don’t get a wage, you get paid by how much you pick. I’ve worked on farms myself and for those who wonder why people aren’t flocking to these jobs, think about it.
PS the farmers aren’t all that happy about untrained workers trampling their orchards either, which may account for the difficulty in finding the ads for these jobs.
October 17, 2011 at 10:40 am #737266
kootchmanMember$61 bucks round trip Chelan County
Grapes of Wrath..? 80 year ago? See the state building code on agricultural worker housing. Sure beats Seattle, where a tent is an optional housing alternative.
October 17, 2011 at 2:21 pm #737267
anonymeParticipantI suspect that many of the rural unemployed are in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Dobro makes some excellent arguments. I worked on a dairy farm when I was young, and it’s bloody hard work – but not as hard as picking. While it may be possible to earn $120-$150 per day, that is likely the rate earned by top pickers. Inexperienced workers may earn only half of that, and there is no minimum. You must be able to run up and down ladders with full bushels. No breaks aside from lunch, and the work day is dawn to dusk – usually 10 hours or more.
October 17, 2011 at 2:27 pm #737268
sydneyMember@#19: Do you recall the last Depression was 80 years ago? Is there some good reason why we shouldn’t revisit the history, and try to LEARN from it? Kootch?
October 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm #737269
JoBParticipantkootchman…
80 years ago when my mother’s family farm was wiped out by the great dust bowl my mother’s older sisters and husbands became itinerant labor.
they made money because they were able to camp at Multnomah Falls while they picked in the Gorge.
I know this because my mother went with them.
She 10 or so at the time.
this is not ancient history to me.
nor is it ancient history to those who seek that work now.
Go meet some of those people who are living locally in tents. There are those who arrived in Washington as a result of those misleading ads…
not so very different at all.
October 17, 2011 at 2:40 pm #737270
JoBParticipantBTW…
if “those people” don’t want to work?
can you explain to me why every time I appear at Nickelsville to pick up a work crew I have to leave more willing workers behind than i take?
can you explain to me why you will find a crew of willing workers outside home improvement stores… every day.. all day?
Sometimes i wonder just what some of you have to do all day…
that you spend so much time looking for any evidence to blame the victims in this economy
i guess it shouldn’t surprise me in what has become a blame the victim society…
if you hadn’t been there.. if you weren’t wearing provocative clothing.. if you had paid more attention to security at your home… if you hadn’t had children you couldn’t afford… if you hadn’t been so stupid… and .. if you hadn’t been born poor…
winner takes all
the ends justify the means
I really don’t like what we have become
October 17, 2011 at 4:17 pm #737271
kootchmanMemberIt’s a job. It’s work, Is picking hard work.. oh yes indeedy.. the picking bags (not bushel baskets) when full before ya empty them in the big tote boxes., about 50 lbs. You will have all the experience necessary in about 2 hours…My uncle would go to the local HS and during morning announcements, when labor was short..they principal would announce, for apple pickers, tomato pickers, cabbage cutter and loaders..field or orchard crops..then you pick like hell..if you want to make money. it ain’t rocket science and it sure isn’t a career path..but it is money and a job. .. .I see a lot of illegal immigrants outside Home Depot..and they actually will work. Since you asked..they are there because they need the work..they are not eligible for the full boatload of benefits.. I have hired them for “grunt” work… now ask the “homeless” white or black “vet”, willing to work for food etc.. by the freeway underpass with their little cardboard signs… uh huh…sure JoB .. you know the top three predictors of poverty as well as I do.. single parents, incomplete HS education, substance abuse issues…self inflicted wounds. Those are the big three..accounting for about 75% of all poverty.. JoB you generalize the exceptions as the rules. When the road signs say “caution slippery when wet”… and ya zoom off at 30 mph over the speed limit… your bad.. not mine.
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