Middle Class income grew "only" 40% in 30 years!

[kootchman]

Jan ,, good heavens you are one of the first to shoot across the bow. Yes indeed justice is good justice if you can afford it. That’s nothing new. Trial lawyers love it. Avoiding taxes, minimizing tax liability? Old as the country and it’s an expense to control just like any other. Give me the hole?..with a tax code tailored for me? .. I am through it. Flat tax. The founders did indeed expect us to put a bit in the mouth of federal largesse. They gave us many rights to insure we could. Arms, Right to petition, vote, free speech, right to assemble, etc…even overthrow… our founders in the main founded a state on the supremacy of the individual over the state. How could you find any other meaning in their intent? I asked before… ya think if you stood up in front of the Continental Congress.. and told them your new plan would include confiscation of over a third of the income of citizens, warrantless searches of your banking transactions, .. you think they would have passed your plan?

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[redblack]

first of all, i’m not jan.

secondly, regarding shooting across your bow, no, i’m not afraid of you or any other conservative, and i’m fully prepared to debate anything you like. after 20 years of arguing about this crap, i’ve grown a little weary of the self-righteous arrogance and bullying swagger that conservatives unfailingly bring to every debate. your attitudes toward liberals are uniformly dismissive, as if you know all of the answers and we’re just a bunch of free-loading crackheads looking for the fastest way to a government paycheck.

it’s an expense to control just like any other.

and there’s where you’re fundamentally wrong. it’s your duty to pay taxes as the price of admission to a free society.

the founding fathers intended to end feudalism and rule by royalty and aristocrats.

and i told you before, the founding fathers couldn’t envision a nation that spanned the continent, had a global military empire, expanding business hegemony, 300 million people (1/6 of whom live below the poverty line), instant communication, supersonic travel, etc.

but what i do know is that they were damned tired of having the boot of self-appointed aristocracy on their necks. now, you say that government wears that boot. maybe. but i’d counter that the top 1% and bank of america own the boot; politicians wear it for them on command.

now, having said that, i’d like to find a way to get pay-to-play out of government, and have government that is truly responsive and reflexive. because those rich a-holes that currently run things in DC for their campaign donors aren’t doing jack for you, me, or anyone else who has to go to work to keep a roof over his head – as opposed to those who go to work just to have something to do, or to find new and creative ways to keep the government from taxing their trust funds.

you want to talk flat tax? let’s get our government back from the top 1% first.

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[JoB]

JV

i didn’t call myself stupid

i did say that some people might take the opportunity to do so

and you did

imagine that

you didn’t hit a nerve

you said something really really stupid.

and i called you on it.

I believe it’s every American’s obligation to pay the taxes they owe.

if we have earned a tax break, we take it.

but we don’t manage our lives to maximize tax breaks.

there is a huge ethical difference.

I’m an old fashioned conservative… not today’s perversion of the word.

I believe in paying my bills on time

and meeting my obligations if i can

even when my collateral no longer exceeds my debt

in managing the national dollar for value

not for ideology or corporate profit

i think our nation’s financial health

is measured by it’s middle class

not by it’s corporate bank book

I am not risk adverse

but i always factor the true cost of risk

whether the decision is medical, personal, financial or political

and i value lives more than dollars.

that’s what an old fashioned conservative is

not the hellfire spewing winner takes all ideological perversion that holds current popular attention.

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