Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Longshoreman need to be trumped!
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February 21, 2015 at 3:48 am #821748
beachdrivegirlParticipantGood news is that it does sound like there is an agreement.
In regards to articles. I think we all should be educated enough to know that reporters interrupt what they believe their direct readers want to hear. Neither you or I know what is happening. I What I do know is that courts have ruled against the longshoreman for slowing down work deliberatley to “help” their case. I also know that we had to lay off 100 + workers because we were unable ship fruit… So lets just hope we can move forward.
February 21, 2015 at 4:15 am #821749
Jd seattleParticipantSo if this big slowdown was caused by bad management and a shortage of chassis a new contract won’t fix it… Right? It will be interesting to see how whichever side was responsible for this spins whatever happens productivity wise at the ports.
Or it will go back to business as usual and everyone will have forgotten about it in a month.
February 21, 2015 at 5:59 am #821750
JTBParticipantJd. My understanding is the big sticking point was the union’s effort to be able to replace arbitrators through mutual agreement with PMA rather than have essentially a lifetime appointment.
To your other point, the increased size of container ships and method of loading inbound containers will both continue to place a strain on the ability of the ports to processes incoming loads. Apparently the shippers in Asia no longer load containers according to destination which means more sorting on the receiving end.
February 21, 2015 at 5:21 pm #821751
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl
hmmm… you work for yourself..
and you had to lay off 100+ workers
“we had to lay off 100 + workers because we were unable ship fruit… “
February 21, 2015 at 5:23 pm #821752
JoBParticipantJd
when a port has crawled to stop.. any improvement in productivity will look like a fix to bystanders
February 21, 2015 at 5:30 pm #821753
dobroParticipant“What I do know is that courts have ruled against the longshoreman for slowing down work
deliberatley to “help” their case.”
Well, according to the article on that subject you presented, you actually know that there was a ruling in the early summer of last year on a work slowdown unrelated to this case. That’s a little different than “knowing” something about this event.
February 21, 2015 at 5:37 pm #821754
Jd seattleParticipantJTB – I understand there are some new challenges for the ports. But just about every news article I’ve read says west coast ports are essentially crippled. Whether it be unorganized super ships, chassis or any of the other non labor reported issues, we should still have “crippled” ports for the foreseeable future then. At least until an operational/equipment overhaul of all of the west coast ports occurs to combat these new challenges.
I guess I’m just trying to point out that we have a lot of people pinning this entirely on the union or entirely on the PMA. One bad guy and one good guy. Does anyone truly think one or the other was standing idle and playing honest and fair while the other was pushing them around? I’ve never known big corporations or unions to get bullied without doing some bullying right back.
February 21, 2015 at 5:52 pm #821755
dobroParticipantHere’s another related article…
February 21, 2015 at 5:54 pm #821756
JTBParticipantJd, here is an article examining the factors contributing to the back-ups in West Coast ports. port delays
Picking up on your comment above, I’m reminded of the pivotal period in the 1970’s into the 80’s when U.S. industrial production sustained big declines in productivity relative to the rest of the world and management and organized labor collaborated in allowing inflation to obscure the growing deficiency rather than working together to foster mutually beneficial improvements. I’ve previously mentioned Gabor Steingart’s War for Wealth in which he holds both camps accountable for what he characterizes as corruption.
In any case, while the economic issues are different now, it does seem to a situation where you’d think the PMA and the ILWU would use the opportunity to work together on improving operations.
My sense is the PMA is mostly focussed on introducing more automated tools and reducing workforce while the ILWU is preoccupied with trying to hold onto what jobs remain. One longshoreman commented to me that they would really like to have more training available to prepare members for technical type positions as automation proceeds.
Of course, that raises the question of whether or not the ILWU members even have a shot at the positions involved with maintaining and operation highly automated equipment or not. As we saw with the chassis, employers sold off the equipment to leasing companies so they (in part) could have non-union mechanics work on them.
Cue Peter, Paul and Mary—When will they ever learn?
February 21, 2015 at 7:16 pm #821757
JoBParticipantdobro.. how refreshing.. the alternate point of view :)
February 21, 2015 at 7:17 pm #821758
JoBParticipantJTB.. because 3% is too much to pay for labor :(
February 21, 2015 at 8:27 pm #821759
miwsParticipantFebruary 21, 2015 at 8:28 pm #821760
beachdrivegirlParticipantYes JoB my husband and I are self employed. We do consultant work.
My reference to laying workers off is in regards to my families business in agriculture where I’m a passive owner. I have no say in operations and currently take no distributions but am well aware per our financials on how this affected central WA economy and loss of jobs.
February 21, 2015 at 8:35 pm #821761
beachdrivegirlParticipantIt might be a bit less. But not much. ‘m combining numbers from not picking and our packing line being reduced and a few other jobs. I know you’d love to find some reason to “prove” me wrong.
February 21, 2015 at 9:18 pm #821762
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl..
i was simply curious as to how a consultant lays off 100 employees…
also curious about what fruit is being shipped from eastern washington this time of year.
are they still shipping apples?
February 21, 2015 at 9:36 pm #821763
beachdrivegirlParticipantThey ship apples year round.
February 21, 2015 at 10:01 pm #821764
beachdrivegirlParticipantHere is an article that talks specifically about the long term affects. As well as the fact that at ONE port (not even one of the four largest on the West coast) had three times as many walk outs as usual. Union leaders can say all they want that it wasn’t their fault. But numbers don’t lie. Furthermore there argument is that they are looking out for their employees what about all the minimum wage jobs that are now just gone? Because you better believe that not all of these jobs are coming back because demand isn’t there.
February 21, 2015 at 10:07 pm #821765
beachdrivegirlParticipantAnd one more state/product specific.
I think it was good fruit grower that also did a piece on it but I can’t seem to find the article.
February 21, 2015 at 11:37 pm #821766
dobroParticipantFrom the article…
“This whole thing is not about short-term wins but trying to preserve our jobs in the future,” responded Dean McGrath, president of ILWU Local 23 in Tacoma.
Longshoremen are not only concerned that importers are shifting to the East Coast but that foreign-owned companies operating the ports are trying to do away with the longshoremen’s jobs altogether, McGrath said.”
I guess if you think unions time is over and there’s no longer a place for them then you don’t really care what the spokesmen say. Thought experiment:if what he is saying is true and foreign companies would like to do away with longshoremen jobs, what approach would you take to try and keep your job? Just give up and say “oh, well, my time is up here, guess I’ll get myself a cardboard box to live in” or perhaps use a more proactive approach?
February 21, 2015 at 11:44 pm #821767
dobroParticipantFrom the second article…
“According to the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), when a breakdown in contract negotiations resulted in a 10-day lockout in 2002, it cost the U.S. economy an estimated $1 billion a day, and took half a year to clear the backlog.”
So it seems that just as there is a history of work slowdowns as you referenced twice in previous posts, there is also a history of costly lockouts staged by management. I wonder how that would have ended had there been no union to stand up for the workers? No, actually, I don’t wonder. The workers would have been fired en masse and untrained scab labor would have taken over very dangerous jobs at severely reduced rates.
February 21, 2015 at 11:50 pm #821768
beachdrivegirlParticipantSo the unions want for their jobs is greater than all the jobs that were already lost? And my thiught is if they weren’t bullies which a lot of them are than companies wouldn’t want to move jobs away from them. Fact of the matter is aour exports are going to shift to the east coast. Our ecports will always be here the PMA would like alternate options to increase their efficiencies. Which we all should want. More efficient ports, create more exports, which helps our economy and creates more jobs. I’d love to see the statistics. But I think the jobs lost that (won’t be replaced in the short term) is greater than the number of jobs they were fighting for. It’s teally an unfortunate situation all around but this is really hurting the minimum wage workers most. Not the shipping companies. Not the longshoreman. And not the big mean corporations
February 21, 2015 at 11:57 pm #821769
beachdrivegirlParticipantBusinesses close as they please every day. It’s a business owners decisions. A management decisions. Employees in every industry get FIRED for not performing and/or not showing up. If people want to decide when a business is open or shut they should open a business or at the very least be management. And in the mean time unions need to be held to the same standard as everyone else. Workers who walk off or don’t perform should be let go and replaced.
February 22, 2015 at 12:14 am #821770
dobroParticipantSo, mostly what I get from your post is: Management does as they please. It’s their business, to open or close as they see fit. If employees don’t like the way they’re treated, that’s just tough. Do as the boss says or you’re fired. And if you don’t like it and talk back or think you should get better treatment, then you’re a bully. Start your own d*mn business!! But, besides all that, I really feel sorry for the poor minimum wage workers.
Interesting.
February 22, 2015 at 12:16 am #821771
dobroParticipantOne question: Do you think the minimum wage is high enough?
February 22, 2015 at 12:20 am #821772
beachdrivegirlParticipantI think $15/he is too high.
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