Hooray! We have a new bench!

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  • #767446

    shed22
    Participant

    I am sure this rudimentary for those involved but who is against the bench and why? What actions have been taken to discuss and/or address their concerns? I imagine the neighbors that are directly affected have tried something. I just don’t know what that is. This information is helpful in understanding why one is want to wage a “sit-in”.

    #767447

    JanS
    Participant

    There is a person who lives nearby, who I understand is a bit of a curmudgeon who has destroyed a number of benches that another unknown neighbor has placed at this viewpoint. Why does he do it? Only he knows. It’s mean, it’s uncalled for. It hurts no one, it is not on his property. I’m not sure if the neighbors have tried to talk with him. They will have to answer that question.

    #767448

    singularname
    Participant

    I haven’t spoken to this curmudgeonly neighbor but they could be thinking along these lines: I live on a dead-in, three houses, beautiful view, and middle of a steep incline. I absolutely would not want a bench offered to the public to linger for any reason. There’s a liklihood they’re casing the area (something I would think many of y’all would understand given the constant advice on the forum here to call the police if someone doesn’t like the looks of someone in their neighborhood–“better safe than sorry”). This concern came to pass this summer when four young teenagers were sitting on the steps for several days one week. On the fourth day, my son heard something outside and found them trying to break into the basement door–he yelled at them. On the fifth day, we came home to paint poured out all over our back patio. Haven’t seen them since, but if I am to catch them, they’ll be introduced to an unloaded shotgun pointed as close as they want to come.

    That said, I would *never* dismantle anything one of my neighbors put there. I’d simply talk to them about it and we’d work it out. If I were more insistent, they would remove it. If they were more insistent, I would live with it.

    #767449

    JoB
    Participant

    singularname..

    a homeowners property rights end at their property line.

    #767450

    singularname
    Participant

    Hey JoB … Yeah, I get that clearly. So I don’t understand why the OP thinks they have the right to place their personal property indefinitely on public property. But moreover, my point is to offer the possible perspective of their neighbor, as asked about several times in this thread. That’s my take on what’s possible.

    #767451

    JoB
    Participant

    singlularname

    have you missed the fact that the OP isn’t placing the benches?

    they are being placed on public property by anonymous donors… for public use.

    did you also miss that it’s a bit of a hike to get to this spot?

    even if i donate to a concrete or rock bench, i am unlikely to ever get the opportunity to sit on it because it is pretty much inaccessible to me.

    and… i have to add… it would take a pretty ambitious and clever miscreant to climb the stairs to the bench and sit on it with their backs to the view

    and case the house behind them…

    it could be done.. but i am guessing they could do a better job without the aid of the bench

    #767452

    JayDee
    Participant

    Mr. X:

    I live over a half-mile away. I do not specifically know your block but I have been through it walking to the junction. That being said, even I have a pretty good idea of who may be taking action. In accordance with the rules, I will not speculate. But you have a pretty good idea of whom this person is, correct? No need for details, just confirming that it isn’t a mystery in the neighborhood. Does anyone on the block have diplomatic relations with this homeowner?

    #767453

    Mr. X
    Participant

    JayDee, the identity of the Viewpoint Vigilante is well known. Several people have witnessed prior destructive episodes firsthand. Prior attempts at “diplomatic relations” have been rebuffed, and, as evidenced by recent actions, seem to have been completely ineffective.

    #767454

    DBP
    Member

    Hoo boy! This bench thing really brings out the curmudgeon in me.*

    Naturally, my heart is with the People of the Bench, but I can’t help questioning their common sense. Based on what we know so far, it seems unlikely that the bench breaker will be swerved from his (?) course, no matter how many new benches you bring.

    Public exposure, you say? Fah! The public exposure the bench breaker is getting here, rather than shaming him into submission, seems only to be spurring him on.

    It is reasonable to infer that the next X benches that are placed in this spot will ALL be destroyed, just as the last X benches were. Therefore, anyone who knows the history of this and places a bench there anyway is just as culpable for the destruction as the bench breaker is.

    This is known as the Law of Inevitable Consequences, which states that if you take an action that can have but one consequence, then you must be inferred to have INTENDED that consequence.

    Or, as the Talmud states: A chicken will die if you cut off its head, even if you did not intend to kill it.

    Another nice bench put out there to be destroyed? Maybe a nice stone bench this time?

    Oy-oy-oy! Vaht a vaste!

    As a couple of other folks on this thread have already grasped, the People of the Bench have a couple much more pragmatic options for dealing with this situation. One option is to engage with bench breaker and see if you can change his mind somehow. Another option is to petition the City to put a bench there. If the City agrees (which is doubtful, frankly) then you will at least have the power to punish anyone who meddles with the bench.

    Anyway, If neither of those options looks good to you, then take my advice and just give it up. Bench or no bench, the view will still be there.

    Please.

     

     

     

     

     

    *Not exactly hard to do under the best of circumstances.

    #767455

    JoB
    Participant

    DBP

    and the lesson you would like us to learn from this is that bullies should get their way because they are bullies and that they will bully is inevitable?

    no.. say it isn’t so.

    #767456

    singularname
    Participant

    My apologies to Mr. X; it is Lolo who has in past threads stated he/she has placed a bench at this site.

    #767457

    karen
    Participant

    First – I don’t live in the area and have never seen the bench(s). Second – the idea of vigilantly benchizm tickles me.

    However, in the interest of fairness, the benchers can be called bullies, too.

    It’s like this: say I live near a vacant city lot. Someone keeps coming by and dropping off old couches. So, as a good citizen, I break them up and haul them to the dump. Pisses me off that people think they can just put crap on a city lot and someone will take care of it. Bunch of cretins.

    OK – I get it, the bench is for viewing and people like it etc. But the really, people are illegally “dumping” on city land. And they just keep doing it!! No matter how many times it gets “cleaned up”, it just keeps happening. So who is the bully? The dumper or the person who cleans it up?

    If people really feel that a bench is important there, then go through the proper steps to make it so. The bench is a good thing, and a nice thing but not a legal thing and until it is, continuing to place one there is forcing someone else to accept your wishes. Kind of seems like bullying to me.

    #767458

    SomeGuy
    Participant

    I agree with Karen. That’s why I am headed down to Ercolini Playground in 10 minutes to throw all the dumped scooters, sand toys, etc into the trash can. Bullies, we like our public spaces UNIMPROVED around here.

    #767459

    KBear
    Participant

    Hey, SomeGuy beat me to it! I was going to sell those toys in my yard sale.

    #767460

    inactive
    Member

    At the end of day, bench or no bench, if the city hasn’t been included or notified by *somebody*, the bench sitters and bench removers are kidding themselves, perhaps, about who is in the “right”.

    If the city has NOT been contacted, then, Karen was exactly spot on, from my POV.

    #767461

    KBear
    Participant

    If I recall correctly, the city WAS contacted about accepting a donated bench, and the would-be donor was told it would cost some ridiculous amount to insure such a hazard to public safety (the bench), therefore, it was not feasible.

    #767462

    B-squared
    Participant

    Singularname – i think a more likely scenario is neighbors occupying the bench, providing a set of eyes if you will at the end of the street. as long as someone is sitting there (out in the open), hoodlums up to no good are going to move on. the stairs leading up to the end of the street provide a place for kids to hang out (out of sight), but if someone is occupying the bench, the stairs become less appealing.

    And Karen, you can call it dumping if you like. semantics. it implies someone discarding something they no longer want. i could even buy it if the “benches” were some mouldering sofas. but they haven’t been. I would even imagine that the bullies know it isn’t dumping as they know full well that the rest of the neighbors appreciate the bench and want it to remain. They just seem to have some kind of idea that they are entitled to all the land surrounding their home, even if it is city property. if they could articulate a compelling reason that benches should not occupy that spot, i’m sure people would be willing to listen. from what i know, they have been incapable of dialog around the subject, preferring vandalism, destruction, loud music, etc to make their feelings known. sad.

    #767463

    inactive
    Member

    At the end of day, bench or no bench, if the city hasn’t been included or notified by *somebody*, the bench sitters and bench removers are kidding themselves, perhaps, about who is in the “right”.

    If the city has NOT been contacted, then, Karen was exactly spot on, from my POV.

    #767464

    GenHillOne
    Participant

    I’m not familiar with the spot either, but if you really think about it, how many people might NOT like having something that draws more people/more people lingering near their yard? I live on a hill (not even a dead end, where I may enjoy the privacy). Would I like it if someone placed a bench on the sidewalk (also technically city property) so that more people would choose to walk by my house because there is a place to rest at the top? Honestly, not so sure. I don’t think I would have it in me to repeatedly destroy it, just saying I can see where the feeling might stem from. Yep, I’d go through the proper channels if you want anything placed there to “stick.”

    #767465

    anonyme
    Participant

    Karen, my thoughts exactly, last expressed about a year ago. The bench advocates really need to do some self-examination; from a neutral standpoint, they are the ones that appear to be engaged in bullying behavior and vigilantism. I think it would be funny if they actually set up the surveillance suggested, only to find they’d effectively documented their own illegal actions.

    #767466

    inactive
    Member

    Edit – to delete my rogue self-replicating post thinking it will stop the postings somehow. Ah technology!

    #767467

    JayDee
    Participant

    The area involved is a “Street End” and I will ask someone whose been involved in such a street end to see if they can offer advice. Street ends (even if said street does not and could not practically go through) are City of Seattle property. Part of a platted street and not “sidewalk”.

    #767468

    inactive
    Member

    At the end of day, bench or no bench, if the city hasn’t been included or notified by *somebody*, the bench sitters and bench removers are kidding themselves, perhaps, about who is in the “right”.

    If the city has NOT been contacted, then, Karen was exactly spot on, from my POV.

    #767469

    JanS
    Participant

    lol..westseattledood…..still happening …

    #767470

    inactive
    Member

    Well, then; I believe I have made my point. :)

    TR- please make it stop!!!

    Hope this post does not follow suite (different browser). I will log off everything and reboot immediately regardless.

    Thx and sorry …

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