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June 5, 2009 at 6:19 pm #668334
c@lbobMemberIt never ceases to amaze me that people buy into the totally fallacious concept that tort damages affect either consumer prices or industry profit.
Drug companies are gargantuan profit machines that pay their executives immoral salaries. The money they give up to profoundly damaged or dead victims of the shoddily tested drugs is akin to the blood sacrifice of a St. Bernard to a tick on its tail.
June 5, 2009 at 7:15 pm #668335
JoBParticipantAlki_2008…
every medication i take is prescribed for off label use:) My medications aren’t any less expensive for that…
“And I’d hope that anyone taking insulin IS under a doctor’s care. The dosage a person requires can change over time, so regular evaluation is essential to ensure someone’s not under- or over-dosing.”
Well.. there’s the catch 22… if you don’t have insurance and you don’t have money.. you probably aren’t under a doctor’s care…
Unfortunately, illness doesn’t disappear with insurance…
so…you could have diabetes or any other chronic illness not expected to immediately kill you and not have a doctor and not have access to the programs that provide free medication…
that supplies a whole new meaning to the preventative umbrella… doesn’t it…
and those most likely to get caught in this situation are middle class workers who whose jobs are terminated due to the downturn or who are terminated or forced to quit due to illness..
and yes.. that happens too.
June 5, 2009 at 7:19 pm #668336
JoBParticipantcatlbob…
thanks for letting me know. i have been sending very terse notes to move-on.org, the white house, my senators and my representative expressing my displeasure at the lack of a viable public health plan.
like you, this is the part of Senator Baucus’s announcement that worries me “some version of the public option”.
But at least public pressure is forcing them to consider some kind of option.
I don’t think their option will be enough.. but we will see…
I would even be in favor of a very basic public option plan with the insurance companies pedaling supplements… depending on the cost.
I still think consumers would be way ahead financially if a basic health plan was funded for everyone…
June 6, 2009 at 6:36 am #668337
alki_2008ParticipantThe way I see it, the amount that us “American people” pay for medications is subsidizing the multi-millions that drug companies spend on drug testing…and we’re also subsidizing veterinary drugs and drugs sold for less in other countries. We WILL pay the high prices, and so they charge us high prices…whereas other countries and pet owners will not, so they are charged less. Pharmco’s want to make their profits quickly before the drugs go generic. ;) However, there are also millions that drug companies spend on testing drugs that never end up in the marketplace, so the drugs that do make it to market subsidize those ‘failures’ as well.
I agree that pharmco executives are overpaid, as I’d rather see the researchers getting exorbitant paychecks…rather than the corporate executives. ;)
Regarding tort…not sure how much drug companies have spent on that, but malpractice insurance is a huge burden for medical professionals…soooo much moreso for human doctors than for veterinarians.
JoB – the insulin and doctor’s care thing was regarding your reference to get hooked up with one of the indigent programs that pharmaceutical companies provide. Wouldn’t it be illegal for pharm companies to give diabetics insulin if they’re not under a doctor’s care (a doctor that can provide prescriptions)? It is a catch-22, but it seems the only way pharm companies can give med discounts is if there’s a doctor saying the med is necessary.
Yes – “that happens too”, and I’ve been way too close to someone losing their job due to a terminal illness and then having to go on COBRA. Fortunately, the rates were reasonable because there was no lapse in coverage and so there was no ‘penalty’ for already being sick and racking up thousands of dollars of medical bills each month.
June 7, 2009 at 4:23 pm #668338
Myr-myrParticipantYesterday I attended a local meeting about single payer health insurance at which someone recommended checking out singlepayerwashington.org for more information. I went to the site (which seems to be sponsored by Hillary Clinton) and, after subscribing to their newsletter, discovered at the bottom of each page a running countdown of “days, hours, minutes until Obama is out of office”! I could not believe my eyes! Tried to shoot them an immediate email telling them how offensive that is. My email rebounded. Tried to unsubscribe. I found no option to unsubscribe. I am disgusted with this political maneuvering.
June 7, 2009 at 4:48 pm #668339
JoBParticipantAlki_2008
“I’ve been way too close to someone losing their job due to a terminal illness and then having to go on COBRA. Fortunately, the rates were reasonable because there was no lapse in coverage and so there was no ‘penalty’ for already being sick and racking up thousands of dollars of medical bills each month. “
Did your friend go from employer insurance to cobra to individual insurance?
They must have had resources.. because even Cobra is not what i would call affordable…
Myr-Myr…
was this just a ploy to taint single payer with the Hillary brush? So last campaign… or maybe that is last decade…
The political movement for a single payer insurance plan is much larger than Hillary.. i think the largest political group promoting a single payer option right now is Move-on.org… who backed Obama very early in the primaries.
please provide a link to the site singlepayerwashington.org.
With a google search, I could find Hillary’s Village with references to the Single Payer ralley in Washington DC..
but was unable to find the website you mentioned.
June 7, 2009 at 7:22 pm #668340
JoBParticipantBill Moyer’s interview with Donna Smith on the Single Payer Health care system …
well worth taking the time to listen… there is also a transcript available..
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/watch.html
from that broadcast…
If Barak Obama wanted a single payer system it would happen… the largest obstacle to a single payer system is congress who counts on the insurance industry for the campaign funds that get them re-elected…
June 8, 2009 at 6:00 am #668341
alki_2008ParticipantJoB – they went from employer insurance to COBRA, but died before COBRA ran out. Not sure what the options would’ve been if making it past COBRA’s expiration, although I think there might’ve been options to extend COBRA in such cases. The monthly premiums for COBRA were less than $300/month, which was quite reasonable for the coverage that covered just about everything. SSI covered the monthly premiums.
From the brief bit I know of the “single payer” idea…it sounds fine with me, although I’d still want the ‘free market’ options to exist.
June 8, 2009 at 4:10 pm #668342
JoBParticipantalki_2008…
I am sorry about your friend.
I have to admit i am flabbergasted at COBRA payments of 300/mo. Hubby has been briefly unemployed more than once in the past few years so we receive the COBRA info… for the last one.. less than 2 years ago.. COBRA would have been over 700/mo for the two of us…
and a friend who recently retired told me his COBRA option was over 1000/mo. They were very relieved to become old enough for medicare this year… his supplemental is more than 300/mo.
The insurance safety net is not as safe as it should be… even when you are willing to pay for it.
According to Elizabeth Warren who chairs the special congressional panel monitoring the bank bailout…in the latest issue of AARP Bulletin… “nearly half of all US bankruptcies were filed by working families in the aftermath of a major illness or injury”.. and these aren’t all just people living on the edge… lacking insurance.
Donna Smith… the activist interviewed by Bill Moyer, became an activist after she and her husband became ill. They both had good jobs, had resources, had the best medical insurance available to them, had supplemental insurance, had disability insurance.. and between co-pays and limits they ended up in bankruptcy.
As she states, she was chosen to testify because she is the new face of those who end up in bankruptcy because of major illness.
I personally know doctors, lawyers, dentists, and a whole host of other professionals who found their assets decimated by illness in spite of being responsible enough to carry the best insurance available to them.
And we won’t even go into the denial of medical coverage that nearly cost a couple of them their lives…
The medical healthcare crisis in the United States today is not just affecting the poor or working poor… or even just blue collar workers. It is impacting the middle and upper middle class as well… people who assumed they were well covered by their insurance until they found out the hard way that they weren’t.
A single payer system makes sense… It effectively cuts out the 30% we currently pay in health costs.. just to manage health insurance approvals and billing.
and… does not have to include a lack of “free market” options.
June 9, 2009 at 1:59 am #668343
alki_2008ParticipantJoB – they weren’t old enough for Medicare and it was only single-person coverage, and the monthly premiums were definitely less than $300. The SSI payments covered the premiums, Rx co-pays, food, and most of the housing…then supplemented by family/friends.
One thing I’d like to see in the ‘medical illness leads to bankruptcy’ issue is how much debt the person had before becoming sick. I mean, there are a lot of people that live from paycheck-to-paycheck and due to irresponsible use of credit. When their illness forces them to stop working, then they can’t pay their credit card bills and/or they pay medical bills instead of credit card bills. I’m not saying that this makes it “okay” for these folks to go bankrupt, but it should be factored into the discussion of major illness’ financial impacts. These folks could’ve lost their jobs for a host of other reasons and ended up in bankruptcy as well. Just sayin’.
I’m not sure about the single payer system cutting 30% of the health care costs aspect. I mean, won’t there will still need to be billing and approvals…otherwise insurance fraud will run rampant as doctors “pad” their bills with unnecessary tests/procedures. The paperwork will need to be done by someone, so an entire government-run department will need to be funded by the taxpayers and/or the participants in the single payer system. Not sure how much that would cost?
June 9, 2009 at 3:27 am #668344
JoBParticipantAlki_2008..
i have heard about doctors who pad their income with unnecessary tests/procedures… but i have never really met one.
there are some tests done by specialists now which were once done by GPs but that is a decision that was made at the clinic level.. my doc refers me to the specialist because he is no longer allowed to run the test himself.
This is an attempt by clinics.. not doctors… to cover the cost of equipment which is really only necessary for a small percentage of patients… by requiring all patients to access tests through specialists…
i don’t know if that is also CYA for malpractice issues…
A single payer system would encourage clinics to centralize more expensive procedures.. thus widening the patient pool with a need to use the more expensive equipment and lessening the need to use it for patients for whom a less expensive test would suffice.
Right now, most hospitals and clinic will give you a 20% discount without blinking if you pay cash and ask for it. And some will discount 30%… all because they are saved the administrative cost of billing insurance companies…
and that doesn’t even mention the dollars saved because doctors do not have to spend their time getting pre-authorization from an insurance company before they treat patients… and can actually spend their time treating more patients.
in a single payer system there would be one set of rules and procedures for insurance reimbursement.. not the 100s hospitals deal with now. Standardization of coverage and forms would eliminate the need for so many insurance specialists on the caregiver end (eliminating one profit center) … and would streamline the process on the payer end… thus saving money for all.
Not to mention.. a single payer system wouldn’t have stockholders to satisfy with ever increasing profit margins… imagine a system where your medical care dollars actually paid for medical care… not a multitude of profit centers…
i admit.. that’s pure fantasy.. someone will always find a way to make money…
but right now according to the doctor’s organization for a single payer system… we could give every American state of the art medical care for the money we are currently spending if we moved to a single payer system that included preventative care…
imagine that:)
June 9, 2009 at 3:47 am #668345
jamminjMember“everyone in the United States is allowed healthcare.”
unless you have certain pre-existing conditions.
June 29, 2009 at 11:28 pm #668346
Tonya42MemberI am in healthcare, have been for years and previous to my job I had a job involved with providing, deliniating charity care to Prov and Swedish hospitals.
Nobody goes without if they don’t want to.
Secondly, I am all for extending a program that will cover the people that don’t have coverage now but for gosh sakes, single payor and socialized are not the way to go.
I have lived under socialized medicine and there is nothing good or free about it.
Socialized health care is just one step on the Road to Serfdom—though a dramatic one. And a deep dive down the Bureaucratic Twilight Zone of the Absurd. Take France for instance:
The much vaunted1 French “free”2, mandatory, state-run health care insurance may reimburse any patient’s second hearing aid if, and only if he is blind.
Get that? Socialized health care means that you will be allowed to hear only if you can’t see3. I mean, hey, you can’t have it all—there are other people waiting, you know. Selfish bastard.
And of course, the poor deaf and blind soul may get that if he first obtained the bureaucrats’ authorization to get said second hearing aid. We can’t have any sort of self-medication going on, can we?
June 30, 2009 at 1:26 am #668347
JoBParticipantTonya42…
i beg to differ with you. I know people who are going without preventative and palliative health care who don’t want to.
I am about to be one of those since we have already exceeded our primary benefits this calendar year… in less than two months… and i am not likely to spend on anything more that isn’t absolutely necessary.
and i have decent health insurance.. if things go terribly wrong we will be fairly well covered.
a single payer system would not limit health care to what is provided under a basic policy… it would just make sure everyone was covered by a basic policy and got cheaper preventative care instead of more expensive emergency care.
You could still get hearing aids color matched to your outfits if you chose…
June 30, 2009 at 7:58 am #668348
HMC RichParticipantLet’s keep the dialogue going. I want to hear from more people in the health and medical fields.
June 30, 2009 at 8:39 pm #668349
Tonya42Memberjamminj
Member
“everyone in the United States is allowed healthcare.”
unless you have certain pre-existing conditions.
Not so fast, there is something called Portability and it in many cases ucerps pre-exist, deductibles etc if you transfer from one plan to another within 90 days.
JoB-
Tonya42…
i beg to differ with you. I know people who are going without preventative and palliative health care who don’t want to.”
There is help and if they need help they can get it. Especially preventitive and palliative care. If you want to help them and don’t know how you can email me.
Primary benefits meaning your medical is not typically limited on a calender year, rather you have a lifetime max. Benefits such as mental health and substance abuse do have calander year maximums however with the Mental Health Parity Act, if you are being denied those types of benefits then your plan is in breech of the ERISA laws which are Federal laws that bypass state laws.
“JoB -a single payer system would not limit health care to what is provided under a basic policy… it would just make sure everyone was covered by a basic policy and got cheaper preventative care instead of more expensive emergency care.”
You could not be any more wrong, I’m sorry.
JoB-“You could still get hearing aids color matched to your outfits if you chose…”
Making light of a serious situation is rather awkward and strange don’t you think? I don’t know what you meant by it but my depiction of living under socialized medicine is true and accurate.
“
June 30, 2009 at 10:09 pm #668350
JanSParticipantTonya…care to explain why you’re such an expert on things? why we simply have to take your word for it over someone else’s? Just saying “you couldn’t be any more wrong” doesn’t cut it…please explain why she’s wrong…details are nice, I think…give us something to think about. Thanks.
June 30, 2009 at 10:38 pm #668351
KenParticipantI have friends who live and work in Germany, France and England. They just cackle like mad gibbons when I send them the descriptions wingnuts pull from their nether regions.
I have two sisters in the health care industry, one a (republican) physical therapist and the other a global project head of a immunization product of one of the largest pharmacuticle companies on the planet (Dem).
They both understand that the current system is broken and the insurance companies are what is broken about it.
If you want some real info, check the following links. If you want the cherry picked unsubstantiated or irrelevant anecdotes of local conservative clowns (and their supporters / authoritarian followers) just stay tuned to this thread.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande
http://dollarsandsense.org/archives/2008/0508harrison.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9994.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared
July 1, 2009 at 1:13 am #668352
JanSParticipantJuly 1, 2009 at 2:19 am #668353
JoBParticipantKen…
you do make my day..
Tonya42…
I assure you my health plan is legal. I can certainly get health care after meeting my initial allotment.. but it will not be paid for by my insurance until i meet a substantial deductible… which probably won’t happen unless i get really sick.
You may think that is a good thing.. but since i have had a chronic illness creating unusual stress for 45+ years and my blood sugar is a bit too high and my blood pressure reflects the amount of pain i am in… my doc thinks i would do better with regular preventative care and new medication trials…
I will be in the uncomfortable position of deciding whether i want to pay out of pocket to fill prescriptions i am unlikely to be able to take and for the office visits to monitor the trials.
We had planned to balance this policy with a flex ben option.. but hubby forgot to renew so i really am looking at totally out of pocket expenses this year:(
but i am very very lucky. if something unexpected and expensive happens, we will be covered.
I have friends in this state who are not so lucky and who have already accessed every program available to them.
It is a big fantasy that preventative and palliative health care is available to all.. it is also a fallacy that emergency health care is available to all…
If you are in the right place at the right time and are persistent.. yes… if someone decides to take the time to help you navigate the system.. maybe…
In spite of all the programs available there are a good number of people who simply fall through the cracks…
while the single payer systems you have experienced may not have provided options… that is not the only kind of single payer option available. We could have a basic insurance plan that was single payer with supplemental insurance available…
oh wait.. we already have a working model here. it’s called medicare.
as for my frivolity… you are right.. my comment about matching hearing aids to outfits was frivolous… tho certainly not intended to be insulting to anyone.
but perhaps it was not as frivolous or offensive as many of the misrepresentations about any form of national health care currently being presented as truth :(
July 1, 2009 at 2:39 am #668354
jamminjMemberIn this discussion I haven’t heard why the private insurance companies fear the public option???
they are spending millions to fight this option, if not more. why?
The argument is that a public option would provide less adequate care, that obama would be deciding your health care.
So even though private insurance might cost a bit more, they can tout that their plan provides a more comprehensive complete care for individuals and their families.
why such the fear???
for those who are concerned about govt health care, nothing I have heard says you cannot pay for our own health care. you can still subscribe to blue shield or group health if you want.
so we are faced with govt sponsored health care (which we provide to our brave military members, as well as our elderly already), or private care which many of us have.
why afraid of choices?
July 1, 2009 at 3:20 am #668355
JoBParticipantif those who don’t get insurance from their employers qualify for a govt sponsored plan… they are likely to pay less for more coverage.. diminishing insurance profits from those policies.
July 1, 2009 at 3:34 am #668356
jamminjMember“they are likely to pay less for more coverage..”
why would a govt plan provide ‘more’ coverage. Thought private insurance was the best system for health care. If one has a choice to substandard govt care or the best private care money can buy, I go with the best.
Those who would get the govt plan already don’t have insurance. I get the privilege of paying $550+ a month for our family. why would I switch to socialized medicine when I can get the best private medical plan.
The insurance companies are acting out of fear, when they need to behave as if they are the best option for families.
July 1, 2009 at 4:15 am #668357
charlabobParticipantThey don’t behave like they are the best option for families because they are not. Insurance companies do not provide health care — they impede it.
July 1, 2009 at 7:57 am #668358
JoBParticipantwhat she said:)
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