Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Goodbye Farmers Markets
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December 21, 2010 at 12:15 am #597374
greatfree1MemberS.510, I can’t believe this actually passed…the goverment does not want you to be healthy, it’s not profitable!
December 21, 2010 at 12:25 am #711924
austinMemberIf farmers markets are outlawed, only outlaws will have farmers markets.
December 21, 2010 at 12:45 am #711925
redblackParticipantyeah, which would be true if it wasn’t for the tester amendment.
this bill exempts farmers whose gross sales are less than $500,000.
agri-business and their trade lobbyists oppose the bill, so it must be the right thing to do.
December 21, 2010 at 12:48 am #711926
KenParticipant“Small farms and food facilities that do less than $500,000 in sales annually and sell most of their food locally would be exempt from most of the new regulations in the bill”
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s510/show
Well yes those who sell Tomatoes for 11.00 an ounce might be in trouble.
Why can you post a link to the part of the bill that outlaws local vendors at farmers markets?
Do you assume they all make 500k per anum or sell out of state to chain stores? Then perhaps they should be regulated.
The serious whiners re this bill seem to all be raw milk nuts or “organic” agribusiness level conglomerates.
Prove me wrong.
December 21, 2010 at 12:56 am #711927
redblackParticipantken, for some reason the phrase “raw milk nuts” makes me laugh.
December 21, 2010 at 1:09 am #711928
maplesyrupParticipantWe need better food safety standards.
It’s crazy, more people died in the U.S. in the past 10 years from food poisoning than died in the 9/11 attack. That’s not to devalue the lives lost on 9/11 but food safety sure doesn’t command a trillion dollar spending spree and hysterical orange alerts.
December 21, 2010 at 1:19 am #711929
greatfree1MemberIt’s more goverment control, if you like that then you probably won’t mind. It’s going to be hard for small farms to met the new rules and regulations. They can seize any farm for no reason. I’ll post the some actual parts that are pretty scary as soon as they release the finalized bill.
December 21, 2010 at 1:21 am #711930
redblackParticipantwhen it comes to food and drug safety, i prefer government control to private control.
December 21, 2010 at 1:22 am #711931
Monosyllabic GirlMemberThere is nothing nutty about enjoying raw milk. It’s delicious.
December 21, 2010 at 1:25 am #711932
maplesyrupParticipantI’d rather the government err on the side of caution when it comes to food.
And I doubt they’ll be able to seize any farm for no reason.
Nor would they. They can’t even manage to keep track of meat and poultry processors; do you really think that all of the sudden the organic farm police will be knocking on doors as a result of this bill?
December 21, 2010 at 1:25 am #711933
DPMembergreatfree1: Can you tell us specifically why you are opposed to this bill? Do you work at or own some food-related business that would be hurt? Do you know someone who would be hurt?
Thanks for posting the link, Ken. It always helps to go straight to the text of a new law before formulating an opinion on it.
Also, not everyone who advocates for raw milk is a nut. There are some demonstrated benefits, along with demonstrated risks.
Personally, I think it should be a choice . . .
December 21, 2010 at 1:27 am #711934
DPMemberDecember 21, 2010 at 1:30 am #711935
redblackParticipantoh, i don’t know, DP. i think pasteur might have been onto something.
a choice? i guess. if you’re shooting for a darwin award, though, your odds of winning will increase if you drink raw milk.
however, i’m a firm believer that mammals shouldn’t drink other mammals’ milk. especially after childhood.
cheese, on the other hand…
December 21, 2010 at 1:48 am #711936
christopherboffoliParticipantRaw milk is fantastic! The risks (for healthy adults) are totally overblown. I was recently surprised when a lactose intolerant friend of mine started drinking raw milk without any ill effects. Apparently the natural enzymes that help her digest it get cooked out of the milk when it is pasteurized. So in its natural state the milk is fine. Tastes amazing too!
December 21, 2010 at 3:37 am #711937
DPMemberredblack: No really. I don’t disagree that drinking raw milk has its hazards. People can and do get sick from it. But there are real, documented benefits, too.
In the 2010 Thanksgiving issue of the New Yorker, there’s a great piece about the modern probiotic food movement, and the article discusses raw milk at length. The whole article isn’t available online, but here’s an abstract:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11/22/101122fa_fact_bilger
Some choice quotes from the article:
The immune system builds up fewer antibodies in a sterile environment; the deadliest pathogens can grow more resistant to antibiotics; and innocent bystanders such as peanuts or gluten are more likely to provoke allergic reactions. All of which may explain why a number of studies found that children raised on farms [many drinking raw milk, incidentally –D.P.] are less susceptible to allergies, asthma, and autoimmune diseases. The cleaner we are, it sometimes seems, the sicker we get.
Raw milk may be more susceptible to contamination than most foods (though it’s still ten times less likely to contain listeria than deli meat is). But just because it can’t be produced industrially doesn’t mean it can’t be produced safely, in smaller quantities. Wisconsin has some thirteen thousand dairies, about half of which, local experts estimate, are owned by farmers who drink their own raw milk. Yet relatively few people have been known to get sick from it.
Raw milk is rigorously tested in California and has to meet strict limits for bacterial count. The state’s standards hark back to the early days of pasteurization, when many doctors considered raw milk far more nutritious than pasteurized, and separate regulations insured its cleanliness. Dealing with live cultures [raw milk advocates] Katz and McAfee argue, forces dairies to do what all of agriculture should be doing anyway: downsize, localize, clean up production. “We need to go back a hundred and fifty years years, McAfee told me. “Going back is what’s going to help us go forward.”
–Very interesting piece. I’ll lend you the mag over a pasteurized beer, if you want to check it out.
December 21, 2010 at 4:29 pm #711938
greatfree1MemberSorry if I didn’t word it correctly, its not that i think farmers markets will be outlawed but these new regulations are going to make it tougher on the smaller farms as they have to jump through a bunch more hoops to sell. Also, most smaller farms are organic and parts of this bill may make them use pesticides on their farms in the name of safety. I think that is a crock of S*@t.
I may be getting all worked up as the actual bill has not been completly published but this is what I’m hearing. I get a little conspiracy crazy at times and this sets off those alarms. More goverment control over our food means they can take it away easier and say it’s for safety.
December 21, 2010 at 4:41 pm #711939
KenParticipantDecember 21, 2010 at 4:46 pm #711940
dhgParticipantOkay, I hear alarm bells when I hear the phrase “More government control…” The LACK of government control is the reason we can no longer eat raw hamburger. My dad worked in a meat processing plant most of his life. The federal inspectors made their life miserable by shutting down lines and ordering clean ups. Ronald Reagan ended all that. Food would be safe, he said, because it would not make economic sense to send out contaminated food. History has proven that wrong. We need more food inspectors. ESPECIALLY in the meat processing plants.
December 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm #711941
greatfree1Member“If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.”
~Thomas Jefferson, 1781
December 21, 2010 at 6:46 pm #711942
dawsonctParticipantIn light of 200+ years of scientific advances, I’m certain Thomas Jefferson would have changed some of his positions.
I DO love it when people take Jefferson quotes out of context to make him appear libertarian, or at least conservative.
I KNOW that is the narrative that the conservatives are pushing, but like most of the rest of our Founders, he was a liberal and a progressive.
The conservatives fled to Canada, or back to England.
December 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm #711943
christopherboffoliParticipantdawsonct: Ha! Jefferson was a politician. So I’m sure he was averse to changing any position lest he be labeled a flip-flopper.
He was certainly a guy who had a lot going for him. But it would be nice to think that at some point he would have reconsidered his positions against the education of women and, of course, owning slaves.
December 21, 2010 at 7:11 pm #711944
dawsonctParticipantDon’t think so Christopher. Taking politicians to task for provable intellectual growth is only a fairly recent phenomenon.
December 21, 2010 at 7:13 pm #711945
redblackParticipantgreatfree: the government doesn’t decide what foods and medicine we should ingest. food, inc., big pharma, and their armies of lobbyists do.
they (the federal government) do and should, however, decide that what goes to mass markets is safe for consumption.
i don’t hear anyone discussing the recent influx of melamine-and-other-noxious-stuff-tainted foodstuffs from china, though, which i believe this bill was crafted in part to address.
after reading this 2007 wapo article, do you think it’s at least possible that food, inc., might be trying to use small farmers as human shields against regulation?
regulation that protects american consumers will cost them money, and i don’t think they give a damn about what we ingest, as long as we keep buying.
December 21, 2010 at 8:02 pm #711946
DPMemberdhg:
The LACK of government control is the reason we can no longer eat raw hamburger.
—Agreed. However, (and this is a little off thread) if you happen to have a taste for fresh hamburger, you can buy it safely at Hans’s German Deli in Burien. It’s virtually 100% lean and looks delicious. Haven’t tried it yet, but am planning to.
You can also get several other kinds of meat there that have been cold-smoked and not chemically treated. Don’t know whether they’re organic or not. Probably not.
But the meat is minimally processed, very tasty, and safe. Germans are sticklers when it comes to food cleanliness.
December 21, 2010 at 9:05 pm #711947
dawsonctParticipantdhg, you could probably eat The Swinery’s hamburger without worry.
If you want steak tartare though, why not get a chunk of tenderloin and chop it yourself? It is much better when the meat is sliced into tiny bits, rather than ground like sausage.
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Make a dressing of chopped shallots or red onions, capers, parsley, maybe an anchovy or two, Dijon, a few dashes of Worcestershire and hot sauce, salt, pepper, olive oil. Stir together to combine, toss the chopped meat in the dressing and mound on a plate. Make an indention in the mound and place an egg yolk in it (chicken is fine, but a duck egg would be much, much better), serve it with some nice, toasty pieces of baguette and a bit of undressed salad along the side. YUM!
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I realize that wasn’t the point of your post, sorry.
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