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    I truly don’t give a crap about all the numbers being spewed left and right out there about this that and the other with regards to who won what, who will do what, and what all that might mean. It is all speculation. All of it.

    I will vote for whomever wins the Democratic nomination this June.

    Until that time however, I will continue to do the dance of joy for Hillary and her win last night, and hope for more wins in the future.

    That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.



    The simple truth is that neither candidate will be able to win this outright without the support of the super delegates.

    Obama will most likely go into the convention with a lead in pledged delegates and popular votes, but without having reached the magic numbers.

    The percentages being bandied about that Clinton needs in the upcoming primary is just to overtake him for the lead in one or more categories. The odds are extremely long that she’ll have a lead at the convention.

    Then our candidate becomes an issue for the party insiders. Do they follow the will of the people and give it to the leader? Do they override the past few months and give the nomination to the fellow party insider? Or do they seek some form of compromise.



    My prediction is the worms will turn and suddenly try talk Barack into dropping out, “for the good of the party”. As someone said this morning, she could drop out now, on a high note. As I screamed at the television when I heard it, “Yeah, and pigs will fly.” :-)




    Huindekmi- if Obama wins the popular vote, and keeps his lead in pledged delegates he will need approximately 90 of the remaining 307 supers to break his way. This will happen well before the convention.

    To situations aren’t at all similar. The truth is Obama needs 1 out 4 remaining folks to back the candidate that wins in every metric. Clinton needs 3 out of 4 remaining sups to overthrow the election results and choose a candidate that doesn’t lead in any metric…

    So, it is in fact wildly misleading to say that “both candidates need the supers”, as what they need them to do for them couldn’t be more wildly different…

    To take it a step further, if you remove all of the superdelegates from both tallies- a candidate needs 2025 out of 3300 pledged delegates to win. Or you need 61% of the delegates to win “without help”.



    WSMom the speach gave me goose bumps last night. I really do not think he could have made me any prouder.



    Socrates, to answer your question about Superdelegates. At this time, I for one, do not think that Superdelegate should be aboloshed. However, I do think that maybe the actual descriptions of their duties should be revised. I do not believe that an elite roughly 800 individuals should be allowed to determine the nomination. That is not Democratic.



    49 high-level supporters of John Edwards announced their support for Barack *today*!




    it is rumored that Elizabeth Edwards will begin campaigning for Clinton in North Carolina tomorrow. If she does, it’s the health care, stupid. :-(



    Socrates, if you believe what you said in 524, there’s no reason to reason with you. You’re wrong. If you don’t know that, you’re too far into the kool aid to be redeemed. Can you say Osama Bin Laden? Can you say Saudi Arabia? Nope, didn’t think so.



    charlabob, please explain where I am wrong.

    I must be slow-witted. Explain your references to OBL and Saudi Arabia too.

    Maybe you can convert me.



    Socrates you sound very childish repeating Bush talking points. It is very nice to know that in 8 months, you and the other 28% of the country that support this current administration will no longer be in power.

    We’ll fight them there, so they can’t fight us here is probably the stupidest justification for war in Iraq in the history of the world.

    Where to start? Well, the folks that attacked us aren’t there, they are less then 5% of the current militants on the ground, what is there is the startings of a Civil War that we started, and our now policing with our blood and treasure.

    The folks that did attack us, we have done nothing to contain, and have given the greatest possible recruiting tool by starting this war. Every day we spend occupying Iraq, we fall further behind in the battle for the hearts and minds of the region. Hamas, Al Qaeda and militant Islamic-extremists in general have dramatically grown in number, strength, and public support and this has largely been funded by our tax dollars supporting this illegal, immoral war that is bankrupting our economy.

    We’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here. At least it rhymes. We will be greated as liberators. Saddam Hussein has WMD’s. Saddam Hussein helped plot 9/11. The oil in Iraq will fund the entire occupation. We may be there 6 days, 6 weeks, I doubt 6 months.



    Don’t feed the trolls.




    New numbers- it looks like Hillary is going to need over 75% of the undecided supers to support her… And needs to win 75% of the remaining pledged delegates to get near a tie in the actual race…



    Another reason to vote for Obama


    Also kind of makes you wonder how she was able to have her “$10 million in donations” ….lets see automatic credit cards that are reoccuring donations and then probably a few of her earmark recipiants…



    Huindekmi…I assume that your “don’t feed the trolls” remark is to socrates. If I am wrong about that, I apologize ahead of time.

    I have been reading this thread but have yet to jump in as I have on previous threads. It seems to me that socrates has clarified his position on certain issues earlier in the thread and is looking for proper discourse. charlabob seemed to dismiss him by saying “there is no reason to reason with you” and that “you are wrong”

    To dismiss someone for having a point of view other then the generally left leaning point of view on this board as a troll seems to go against what everyone on this board is trying to encourage…open debate about all issues.

    Just my 2 cents…



    LOL…you know it’s amazing…

    you guys says things like “the will of the people” like the only people who count are Senator Obama supporters…

    have you not noticed that he does not even get all of the popular vote? There is no 70/30 split here.. not even a 60/40… The differences are statistically small…

    there was a time when the only one who thought that George Bush had an overwhelming mandate with such numbers was Mr Bush…

    now i hear similar margins repeated as though they really meant something…

    yet… if those same numbers are the margin of a CLinton win.. they aren’t important…

    and i think you should check the results of the Texas primary… i seem to recall that Senator Obama did not end up with the majority of delegates there…

    And what about Florida and Michigan? it’s true that Obama wasn’t on the ballot on for one of those states.. but i believe he was for the other…

    of course, i forgot… the democrats in those states don’t count any more than the democrats who support Clinton…

    Pennsylvania doesn’t count because it is a “Hillary home state” full of old and poor voters…

    So the old and poor don’t count as citizens either?

    Gosh… voters who count haven’t been so restricted since they lifted the property requirements for voting…

    And what is with the assertion that Clinton’s supporters really want the republicans to win if they don’t get their candidate?

    hmmm.. i just somehow got lumped with traitors for nothing more than not choosing Senator Obama…

    Imagine that.. anyone who doesn’t actively support Senator Obama is now helping the Republican cause…

    and who is being divisive??????

    Somebody needs to get over themselves….

    I hear you think he has addressed his “acquaintances” …. calling them acquaintances settles the issues for Senator Obama’s supporters…

    what is the matter with the rest of us who think maybe he should stop evading the questions?

    The truth is that he hasn’t answered any of those questions… he has called political supporters and friends acquaintances and told America they don’t need to be hoodwinked by things that are irrelevant.

    In other words… he wants us to listen to his words and not look too closely at anything else.

    I admit, his words are compelling. i just read the editor from Utne Reader comparing the impact of his words to Paul Wellstone’s … and we all know his movement is compared favorably to Kennedy’s …

    but to quote Hillary.. it’s words… he is a compelling speaker…

    but what has he done?

    who has he done it with?

    and what makes anyone think dismissing half of his possible constituency is inclusive?





    i contributed to Hillary’s 10 million… and i don’t have any corporate interests…

    in fact… i am in it for the little guy.. and for women and children.. who really need a fair shake… not just some pretty words glossing over their ugly circumstances..



    AS you can see in the article above major players in the Democratic party are saying it is a Delegat race meaning Hillary has lost.

    Secondly, check your facts.

    Texas Primary

    Clinton 65

    Obama 61

    Texas Cuacus

    Clinton 29

    Obama 38


    CLINTON 94

    OBAMA 99




    did the number of earmarks concern you at all? The Woodstock Festival muesum was the best does one of the world richest men really need a $1 milliond dollar earmark? Do you really want your tax dollers going to that? And we want someone who spends money like that running our country?



    just for clarity…

    i followed the latest link to the Huffington Post and must have been reading a different article… because there is nothing “sooner than you think” there…

    “Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid took his comments about the state of the Democratic primary one step further today, suggesting that he and other prominent Democrats would intervene in the race IF THE PRIMARY SEASON CONCLUDES WITHOUT A CLEAR WINNER:

    Reid said he would consider writing a joint letter with Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) demanding that superdelegates make their endorsements public.”

    The primary season ends with the last primary…

    That means you have to wait to actually see how the primaries play out before you get to call a winner….

    it’s the American way.. everyone is supposed to get a chance to vote when there is no clear winner…

    imagine that…



    “The truth is he hasn’t answered any of those questions… he has called political supporters and friends acquaintances and told America they don’t need to be hoodwinked by things that are irrelevant.

    “in other words… he wants us to listen to his words and not look too closely and anything else.”

    No truer words have been written.

    And when the Democrat bashing of each other is over, IF Obama is the candidate, the Reps are not going to let him get away with this evasion. Therefore, I do have to say, I really hope Obama gets the nomination!!!



    “If the votes of the superdelegates overturn what’s happened in the elections, it would be harmful to the Democratic party,” Pelosi said in an interview taped Friday for broadcast Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.”…

    “It’s a delegate race,” she said. “The way the system works is that the delegates choose the nominee.”

    This is the part I was referring to where Pelosi states that it is a delegate race and that the Superdelegates will not overturn the delegates becasue it woudld be to harmful to the Democratic party!! This is great news because mathmatically hillary wont even come close in the delegates!!



    perhaps you should take a closer look at Senator Obmama’s earmarks before you get too excitable about Hillary’s.

    You will find he leaves plenty in his wake.. and most of them don’t benefit local citizens…

    And.. perhaps you should take a closer look at Hillary’s… istead of rushing to judgment…

    were you aware that the museum is intended to generate income from the tourist traffic that already exists for a community that badly needs some source of revenue?

    it will actually be of help to her local constituents…

    isn’t that what a Senator is supposed to do? Help focus funds where they will actually help local taxpayers?

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