Alki beach

[Dunno]

Time for camera’s on Alki?

I hate to be bring big brother to my favorite

spot, but look at what’s happening there, and

what may come. In my opinion, this would help

police identify the time to add presence. I would

add Whale Tail park to this need. Do you want your child hit by a stray bullet?

It’s now a matter of public safety!

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[Dunno]

I also meant to thank the WSB for the amazing

coverage of last night’s shooting!! I have family

that lives just a block form the shooting.

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[charlabob]

Yes, thank you WSB — this is great coverage and what community media can do best. Obviously, you’re the best of the best.

There’s a very forum like discussion under the thread for the shooting. I was going to post there, but this seems a better venue. We’re right to be concerned and angry. We need just need to make sure we’re angry at the right people (and that “We” includes all of us who are angry.)

We’ll be at the next WSCPC meeting (see blog article for details) and we’ll hope to see SRO and beyond.

Meantime, think about this. What we’re all choosing to call “The Elephant in the room” isn’t the enemy; it’s thugs. How do we know that Alki has been overrun by thugs? If it has anything to do with the color of skin color or gender, then we’re wrong and we’re part of the problem.

Black, hispanic, and white punks are the problem. All young black and hispanic males are not. I’ve seen people cringe and hold their children closer when a young black man walks on a sidewalk in the admiral, carrying a briefcase. Closer to home, I had a helpfully watchful neighbor call the police when a friend from Delridge left some books on my porch when I wasn’t home. That is not the answer.

Please help with a solution to this very serious problem; and please make sure that the solution starts with understanding what the problem really is.

Note that I am not accusing everyone who is afraid or angry or concerned of being racist, though I know that’s some of what will be said. I’m just saying think about it and if that is a knee-jerk reaction, think a bit more. :-)

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[Dunno]

April-Sept, 6 months a year, is when Alki gets

used the most. Rather than close off the roads

or have a police post 24/7 taking them away from

other problems, set up a camera security array. Pretty amazing how well these have worked in other area’s. I believe this would

be the most cost and safety effective means of

preserving Alki for all.

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[Jeffro]

I think the cars are most of the problem, and to tame the wild traffic would go a long way toward making things feel safer down there. I feel like I am more likely to get hit by an aggressive or inattentive driver than a stray bullet down there. To cross Alki blvd is to possibly have a confrontation with an impatient or distracted motorist.

I was there a couple hours before the shooting. It was crowded, and the sheer number of people made things feel a little less safe. I think a little police presence could have helped a lot.

I am bugged by the people that say “this is our neighborhood, get out” and the people that blame “trash” and “ghetto” folk. Alki beach should be a safe place for everyone, and that includes the people that “don’t look like they’re from around here”. What I saw Friday night were people of every age and race, mostly minding their own business.

What I think a lot of the dangerous behavior stems from is a few teenagers that haven’t figured out the limits of their freedom, both in how they drive and interact with other people, and that’s why I think a little more police presence would be helpful. ANYONE smoking weed along the walkways should be promptly dealt with.

Alki has always seemed a little crazy to me starting with the first really warm weather and ending about when the school year ends. It’s nothing new, and it’s usually something that seems to die down shortly after the 4th of July.

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[Anonymous]

I for one am scared to death about going back to Alki after last night. Sorry but its the truth. It just feels like everything has gotten so much worse in the past twenty years. I appreciate the postivie points of view but last night really shook me and my kids up badly.

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[Dunno]

NM,

You’re feelings are natural. I wasn’t there but felt sick to my stomach about my family memebers and others that could have come into the line of fire. Something has to be done to make you feel

safe there again.

J,

The loud crowds and trouble at Alki continues until the weather gets colder or rains send people

home. You’re right about trouble ramping up to July 4th, but it continue’s beyond.

Traffic is a huge problem as you stated, but there

has to be found a balance for residents and the need of business that help make Alki the great place it is. At least with camera’s rolling, we

would have a tremendous tool for law enforcement

and have footage of the cars and people making trouble. If you’re not breaking the law, you’d

have nothing to fear, and families would feel much safer. We have a problem that seems to get

worse every year. BTW, when police clear Alki,

the crowd often regroups at Whale Tail park.

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[JimmyG]

Last nights shooting won’t stop me from going to Alki, but then again I pack legally and have for over 20 years. I’m willing to lawfully protect myself and my neighbors.

Cameras will only help solve a crime after it happens. Unless the cameras are monitored 24/7, which they won’t be as that’s cost prohibitive.

If cameras stopped crime then there would be no shoplifting in stores with camera systems and no assaults on the streets of the UK (which has one of the highest concentrations of cameras surveilling public places of any country in the world).

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[Dunno]

JG,

Then why does the UK and store bother? Because they work! They are used in court all the time.

Most of the problems on Alki happen

Friday, Sat, and Sun between 4pm-11pm. Most of

the characters involved are well know to police.

It would only take four or fewer camera’s to cover

most of the problem area’s and could be monitored at

the Southwest Precint as well as downtown. Alki needs a solution, we have traffic cameras all over. Make these public camera’s on the internet just like many other spots have. Whats one life worth, whats the saftey of your child worth? Then talk to me about $$$$’s. Alki is a unique Seattle treasure, and should be treated as such!

BTW,

Even Seattle Police cars now have them, why?

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[alki_2008]

Dunno – I’m on the same wavelength as you regarding cameras.

I posted in the comments on the main news page’s article about the shooting, and then afterwards saw this thread. Sure, cameras may not stop crime from happening in the first place, but it would be invaluable in identifying and prosecuting the perpetrators…rather then letting them just get away and commit more crimes. What’s wrong with that? I would hope that, after a while, troublemakers would realize that they’re not going to get away scott-free at Alki and then take their activities elsewhere.

I think everyone should be able to enjoy Alki beach, whether they live here or not. Alki doesn’t need troublemakers that stop traffic to talk to people walking on the sidewalk/boardwalk, ignore crosswalks, block sidewalks, harass or intimidate passerby, or otherwise disrupt the enjoyment of the Alki area by either residents or visitors.

If people don’t think these type of things happen, then try living in Alki and walking the sidewalks between 57th and 60th every sunny day. Even the side streets are problematic sometimes.

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[JanS]

My thoughts this weekend about West Seattle-ites who are maybe thinking that now they just want to stay away. Doesn’t that let the street thugs win? I’m wondering. I do think that now we’ll see a greater police presence, as an aftermath to this shooting.And maybe surveillance cameras ARE a somewhat good idea, even if after the fact. They will be able to give descriptions, or license plate #s, etc, if anything else happens. But…the community needs to rally, and take back the streets. I feel pretty sure that the Alki Community Council will address this, and what to do about it. Maybe besides the meeting at SW District, those of us concerned need to attend the next Alki meeting, too.

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[JimmyG]

I’m not saying cameras won’t help, just don’t be lulled into a false sense of security that cameras stop crimes, they don’t.

They assist in solving the crime after it’s happened (and as you say assist in court) but they aren’t the deterrent that we’re led to believe.

So the gangsters from the other night would still have shot their buddy, but there might be part of the shooting caught on tape to assist in the investigation.

That is nice for the cops but doesn’t make your family any safer while the crime is going down.

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[Anonymous]

At this point I’m so upset that I don’t care if the street thugs or gang bangers win because there is nothing I can do about it and I’m not putting myself or my family in the line of fire. Plus this was a totally random shooting and could have been anybody. We are being terrorized by these people.

If they had more police there on a regular bases I might feel differently. Maybe there should be a community police station there like they have in White Center that shows the police aer part of the community and are around.

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[rykrite]

I hope that those participating in this dialogue will join me at the May 19th Southwest Precinct meeting. I don’t like what happened either, but I’m not going to hope that someone else will take care of it. It is OUR community, and WE will make it better. Please bring your ideas – all of them, even those I disagree with ;-) – to the meeting, and let’s make some progress. It is fantastic to have the Blog to throw these ideas around…now let’s ramp it up a notch and figure out what the next steps are.

.

I can’t avoid Alki. My daughter is there every day at 3:15 when school lets out, and I am not going to whisk her off the playground on these beautiful sunny days. I’m scared, but I’m not giving up. Let’s band together to come up with a community solution.

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[rykrite]

NaturalMom, there is no excuse for a shooting, premeditated or otherwise, but what makes you believe that this was totally random? Of course I don’t know because I wasn’t involved, but the comments by one who overheard the shooter implied that they knew who they were going after, and if this was gang related violence, then I think it very likely could have been gang vs gang or even an internal gang problem. Whoever the victim was, he didn’t deserve to be shot (nobody does), but I’m not convinced that this was random.

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[mcwhite72]

I think camera’s are the way to go. It’s effective and inexpensive. They could even make the feed public so we could check out the beach before we head down. Anything to keep our beautiful Alki safe and clean. Places like Alki are to rare to let it be taken over by jacks asses shooting at each other. Let those fools kill each other somewhere else.

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[Anonymous]

rykite. I understood based on the story that was posted that the shooting was random.

mcwhite72. Thats the best idea I have heard yet. Thank you for the info.

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[Traci]

I ride my bike to Alki often, and enjoy long lazy days knitting, eating, dog watching, hopefully getting some coveted bonfire spots soon, etc. Today it was gorgeous there. Totally packed with people and had its usual sunny day vibe.

It’s so unfortunate about the shooting, and not surprising, but I’ll keep going back without a second thought. There is crime throughout WS, and all of Seattle. There are stupid kids that shoot other stupid kids everywhere.

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[Cait]

A perspective from someone who clearly remembers being the age of most of these kids as it was only about 5 years ago:

The beach has always been and always will be the place to see and be seen for the pre-teen to late 20’s set on nice days – it’s just a given. It’s practically West Seattle human nature – migration if you will. Even at my young age I find myself off-put by these youngins, but at the beach I’ve grown to expect their presence and welcome it. Watching their increasingly silly outfits, their super AWESOME bikes and watching their little mini-dramas is just par for the course.

That being said, don’t lump those kids in with the ones that would do violent things of this nature. There are plenty of good kids on Alki enjoying their summers and creating memories that I myself STILL look back on fondly. The Gang Unit does need to have more of a presence down there, that’s a given. And I’m sure that will happen now. It’s sad that it took something like this to make it happen but now that this happened, Alki will ironically be one of the safest places in West Seattle. At least we hope. And I hope that during this time we don’t make this an ageism situation and start giving young kids or those you perceive as “thugs” the side-eye. Most of these kids are harmless or “dressing a part” and not packing heat like these MORONS.

I don’t want to stand by and watch Alki turn to crap, but I don’t want to see this turn into another situation where we lump all the young people that frequent Alki into one group like we did with the “thugs” that “hang out” at Talarico’s after the shooting outside their completely uninvolved establishment.

Let’s rise above, try to get on with life in West Seattle as soon as possible and do what we can do help. Be safe but don’t assume things of people based on looks. 9 times out of 10 you’re going to be wrong about a person on that basis and you’ll be wasting your time. This was a tragedy but don’t allow yourself to be terrified out of going somewhere.

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[Gina]

35 years ago young people were using explosives to blow up garbage cans on Alki, parked and played loud music endlessly and had big smoking bonfires on the beach, or anywhere they could. No parking restrictions. People publically fornicated. Stoned, drunk, wasted. No leash laws, the evil dog blamed for all ills was the doberman.

Screaming fistfights, bottles tossed everywhere, glass everywhere.

Nothing new under the sun.

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[Cait]

o_O I just learned more about my mother’s West Seattle generation than I cared to.

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[alki_2008]

There are troublemakers loitering on Alki almost every sunny day. These troublemakers are usually teens, but they’re not the only teens on Alki. There are a lot of teens that are “harmless” and just enjoying the beach. The harmless teens and troublemakers aren’t distinguished from each other solely by their appearance, but more by their behaviors and attitudes. Not all teens are troublemakers, but that doesn’t mean we should pretend that the troublemakers are just “harmless kids” either.

If the troublemakers are gang members and they only harmed each other, then I wouldn’t care…but I’ve heard many incidents of gang violence (not in Seattle) where innocent bystanders of all ages were caught in the crossfire, and that is NOT okay with me. YMMV.

NaturalMom – I believe this was not a “random” shooting. The prevailing theory seems to be that the victim was known by the shooter.

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[WSB]

FWIW there is no “theory” publicly released at this point. Police have not released any new information over the weekend (and we have checked multiple times daily) on either the shooting or the victim’s condition. It was never described as random, either – police did say the shooter was on the inland side of the street and shot across the street, where the victim, facing away from the shooter, was standing by a vehicle.

I will be talking in the morning to both the police media unit regarding the investigation and the victim’s condition and to Southwest Precinct leadership regarding plans for Alki police presence, going forward. Look for a story here by lunchtime.

We drove Alki late today, just to see how things looked on the first sunny afternoon/evening since the shooting (given that Saturday was monsoon-like) – saw a police cruiser parked alongside the Pepperdock building, facing the water. Also saw another cruiser driving westward.

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[Dunno]

Our West Seattle SPD force is limited in size and has a lot of ground to cover. Alki is remote in location relative to the core of West Seattle.

Putting too many officers there leaves others parts of West Seattle vulnerble. I like what the captain had to say about citizens calling if they suspect

trouble brewing, but someone please clue in the 911 ops who often want something more specific than potential trouble and can be a bit… I think we all want a solution that makes Alki safer for all. The single

best idea I could come up with is several high tech 360 cameras in the busy locations. Post signs area patrolled just like the red light cameras. Gets my attention. As far as Alki being

dangerous in the past, not like bullets flying Friday night, and I’m not ok with the bad stuff that was happening 35 years ago.

I’m sure any good idea’s are welcome!

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