Home › Forums › Open Discussion › restripe of Avalon ??
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June 6, 2013 at 9:39 pm #607795
KenParticipantSooo. What part of the Seattle bike master plan is going to bugger Avalon between 35th and Fauntleroy? A major arterial re-striped for Bikes and eliminating a car lane? Removing the right turn lane eastbound? (in front of KFC) This is the only lane that keeps Avalon from backing up into Fauntleroy in the morning and evening.
And which one of the politicos thought this was a “GOOD IDEA” I will be talking to dang near every Dem up for re-election this year in the next week and I want to know which one to punch.
June 6, 2013 at 11:06 pm #791315
pigeonmomParticipantThey did this to my mom’s street in North Seattle. It’s turned out to be a total nightmare.
June 6, 2013 at 11:07 pm #791316
celeste17ParticipantI noticed it today when I went that way and thought well there goes that road from flowing to a standstill (just like Alaska St from before Fauntleroy to the junction. Pretty soon you’re not going to be able to drive any where in west Seattle.
The politico’s should be made to drive these roads every day especially if there is an accident somewhere along the route.
June 6, 2013 at 11:14 pm #791317
ricoMemberKen I would like to join you.
Getting from 35th to west of California is ridiculously long (3 – 4 light cycles) on Alaska with the one lane change, so I have been going to Avalon instead. If they screw up Avalon there will be a lot of people going back to using Alaska, including the bus only lane. The peasants need to revolt against being screwed with.
As for who is behind this, clearly Mike Mcginn and Dave (forget his last name) the guy who Mcginn hired as his Bike czar.
June 6, 2013 at 11:31 pm #791318
SmittyParticipantMore Condos + More Townhomes = Fewer car lanes.
It’s like the metric system guys. You can force it down our throats all you want. Fewer lanes, bus bulbs, bus-lanes, bike lanes, re-channeling, etc. but Americans won’t change and magically start riding the bus or pedeling a bike no matter how much you try and social engineer it.
Get over yourselves.
June 7, 2013 at 12:12 am #791319
sam-cParticipantsaw it today too and was trying to figure out if I’d seen a story on WSB about it already…I was surprised.
there always are lots of cyclists going that way.
June 7, 2013 at 5:13 am #791320
KenParticipantThe “lots of cyclists” are mostly pretending to be pedestrians in the crosswalk and magically becoming lane using vehicles after we all stop and let them cross 4 lanes of traffic. Yes it is dangerous. That’s why I spent my 20 years as a cyclist waiting for the walk signal or the green light. Not crossing with neither and at full speed.
Arterials are for moving cars. If you bugger all the east west arterials for the sake of commuters
whether on bikes or buses, it will not force those of us who are not going downtown to quit driving. We will just look around for someone to blame. This is the only major city I have ever lived in that made transit impossible to use between neighborhoods without dedicating the entire day to the process.
June 7, 2013 at 11:54 am #791321
yes2wsParticipant35th to Calif (via Alaska) is beyond ridiculous with the re-stripe. I agree the persons responsible should be forced to drive insane routes such as this one. Maybe then, sanity would be restored.
June 7, 2013 at 1:11 pm #791322
kayoParticipantI noticed that, too. Hoping for the best, but bracing for the worst. I am thankful I don’t typically have to drive up there from my Delridge neighborhood at rush hour. It is fine during the day, but at rush hour west on Alaska is awful and I am guessing Avalon will be, too, after the restripe.
June 7, 2013 at 2:10 pm #791323
hammerheadParticipantYes it is horrible during rush hour. I go all of the back roads.
I saw that restripping and thought god can’t we just leave well enough alone.
June 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm #791324
kayoParticipantExactly Hammerhead!
June 7, 2013 at 8:02 pm #791325
wsn00bParticipantLane markings = lipstick on a pig.
Between bike lanes and rough, potholed, rutted third world arterials (like Forest Service Road 35th Ave SW), I’ve started to ignore lane markings and treat them as accident prevention recommendations when there is a lot of traffic.
When there is no traffic around, I’ve found myself lane spanning like a large metro bus so that my car suspension survives on the small leftover decent patches of road. Those patches may include unoccupied bike “lanes”. Lanes-shmanes. Drive like a third-world driver on third-world roads. Riding a bike on dangerous sharrows/bike lanes on bad surfaces ain’t gonna happen. I’ll be soon forced to trade our 45mpg skinny wheel sedan for a SUV with a cushy suspension next time around.
June 7, 2013 at 10:00 pm #791326
tom kelleyParticipantOur only hope is at the ballot box!!
June 10, 2013 at 5:18 pm #791327
Jeff HParticipantI reported this post as inappropriate. I’m appalled at this conversation and what’s been said.
…and I want to know which one to punch.
Really? So that’s a solution? I didn’t see anyone offer a real solution to the traffic problem in West Seattle.
Here’s a solution: MORE bike lanes. For MORE people to use. LESS cars.
I’ll be taking the lane as I bike home up Avalon and cross 35th on my way to 36th. Maybe I’ll even go across the crosswalk where I’m legally allowed to ride.
One of the best quotes I’ve ever read recently:
You’re not sitting in traffic…you ARE traffic.
No need to rant about how you NEED to drive a car…this post will be removed soon.
Enjoy your drive today! The weather is beautiful for a bike ride. Maybe someone can come punch me in the face because I was one of several people who made the recommendation to this re-configuration. ;-)
June 10, 2013 at 6:59 pm #791328
elikapekaParticipantReally unfortunate post, Jeff.
We don’t need more bike lanes. We need better planning all the way around. The first thing we need is better mass transit. I travel a lot to other cities, and the bus/rail system here leaves a lot to be desired. Portland, Salt Lake, Denver, right off the top of my head, do a much better job of moving people. Connections aren’t easy, schedules are constantly cut. First we need a dependable and consistent transit system in place. A park and ride with a transit hub would have been great in the Triangle.
Next, I appreciate bike riders. I appreciate that it’s a healthy way to get around and it decreases traffic for people like me who, yes, NEED to drive. But the reality is that with the terrain and weather here, only so many people are ever going to ride bicycles, and the perception is that a disproportionate amount of resources are being devoted to it.
Instead of cobbling together piecemeal bicycle routes by restriping and reconfiguring roads, I wish the traffic planners would take an overview of traffic patterns, realizing that both cars and bikes need to travel safely. To completely clog up every arterial with a mishmash of cars and bikes and transit to the point that nothing moves is nuts. The best way would be as much clear separation as possible. Perhaps instead of a bike lane on an arterial, move the bicycle traffic to a side street and restrict automobile traffic there to residents only. Or in the case of Avalon, why not widen the sidewalk a little bit if necessary, and designate that as a dual bike/pedestrian path so that traffic can continue to move through there?
There are solutions, but only if we all stop insisting that only our preferred mode of transportation gets all the goodies.
June 10, 2013 at 8:07 pm #791329
Jeff HParticipantBetter planning is being done. And the “piecemeal” updates will eventually be part of a larger transit network. The system can’t be completed overnight, so smaller pieces that can be done now are sprouting up, with intentions of connecting to future corridors.
I’ve experienced good (and terrible) public transportation options all around the world. There is no perfect transit system in any city. Seattle certainly has room for improvement, which is what most people know. And there’s never any glory for SDOT.
I have no preferred mode of transportation. Bicycle infrastructure costs are negligible compared to the costs for automobile infrastructure. I want “goodies” for everything, but right now cars are last on the list because they already have most of it, and are the least sustainable and most costly transportation option that takes up the most space.
I’m frustrated with the anti-car rhetoric. And then to read about someone wanting to physically harm others, just because of change? Jeez.
I’m out lobbying for more bicycle infrastructure all over West Seattle. I’m providing solutions, not complaining about problems. I wish others would do the same. I had direct influence in this update to Avalon, and will feel more comfortable riding a bike through here even though it’s only some painted lines. Much better than the status quo.
Having no space to expand Avalon in this section, the best was to remove a seldom used right-turn only car lane. Avalon is one lane heading east/north (downhill) from 35th, so there’s no reason to have more car lanes funnel into one. There’s only a single lane coming off of Fauntleroy onto Avalon. More car lanes won’t help…less cars will. This “corridor” is one of a few into and out of the interior of West Seattle. Where’s the alternative route(s) to this that bikes or buses should travel on?
June 10, 2013 at 8:17 pm #791330
JanSParticipantDear Jeff. I need a car. 66 years old, disabled with End Stage Renal Disease. And I’m courteous to bicyclists, which is more than I can say for some of them. Yes , I go around them when they go 15mph, and the speed limit is 30. But lots of people do. In another state, on some roads, there are signs that say if you are holding up more than 5 cars, get over and let them pass. Makes sense to me.
Thank whoever you deem as a spiritual guide for your health and your ability to ride that bike wherever and whenever you want. But don’t think you’re more important than those who don’t. But don’t knock us car drivers…thanks.
Having said that, I quite understand the change in traffic patterns at 35th and Avalon. And for people going to the businesses on the corner..you can go into the KFC lot before the corner. And The Bridge is moving. Will, however, be interesting at that corner once the development starts where The Bridge is located.
June 10, 2013 at 8:33 pm #791331
JanSParticipantRico…getting to Calif. from 35th and Avalon is a breeze. You go to Fauntleroy, go right on Oregon, and go west. One light at Calif. and Oregon. I don’t get what the problem is.
June 10, 2013 at 8:52 pm #791332
ricoMemberJanS, We may be talking from two different directions. I am talking about when going north on 35th from High point.
June 10, 2013 at 9:47 pm #791333
WSBKeymasterJeff – Our “report this post” function has been broken for a while so I didn’t see your note. Am just seeing this now because I have been trying to get a complete picture of the rechannelization of Avalon from SDOT. They don’t put all this information online so I can only go through the media folks, who are nice but handling an entire city worth of media requests, mine included. I would appreciate if EVERYONE who has some knowledge of a road change around here – got a note on your door? a postcard in your mailbox? – would let us know, because we do NOT get notification from the city unless it’s some massive thing.
Anyway, all I have from them right now is that they are restriping to extend the uphill bike lane to Fauntleroy/36th, but what I saw looked a little more complicated than that, so I am sending a followup question.
And to everyone, PLEASE stop with the bike-vs-car tempers, whichever standpoint you might be coming from. The roads ARE for everyone, like it or not, regardless of how they are configured, except for the freeways that are restricted to motor vehicles.
Tracy
June 10, 2013 at 10:01 pm #791334
Jeff HParticipantSooo. What part of the Seattle bike master plan is going to bugger Avalon between 35th and Fauntleroy? A major arterial re-striped for Bikes and eliminating a car lane? Removing the right turn lane eastbound? (in front of KFC) This is the only lane that keeps Avalon from backing up into Fauntleroy in the morning and evening.
And which one of the politicos thought this was a “GOOD IDEA” I will be talking to dang near every Dem up for re-election this year in the next week and I want to know which one to punch.
I get aggressively responsive when people talk like this and I feel my safety is threatened. Attitudes like this encourage “entitled” driving and I don’t tolerate it.
I have no problems with those who need to drive a car. It’s a choice for most and a need for others. I sometimes drive a car. 99% of the time everyone is very courteous while I’m riding a bike, running, or walking…and I’m thankful. I am also thankful for being healthy and being able to get around under my own power.
But we’re not talking about “need” vs “choice”. We’re talking about rhetorical claims and threats based on feelings (not facts or data). It is compelling to me to think this tiny section of Avalon will get “buggered” up (more than it already gets) by removing a car lane and adding bike lanes. I think most people would want this corridor to be more predictable with all users – bikes, peds, and cars having their own lanes. Adding bike lanes encourages more people on bikes…and less cars on the roads.
June 11, 2013 at 8:06 pm #791335
WSBKeymasterStory with information about the reconfiguration coming up in a few minutes.
June 12, 2013 at 12:26 am #791336
trickycooljParticipantThe single lane to get from Fauntleroy to 35th was backed up from 35th down Fauntleroy almost to Oregon just now. Not really sure about the improvement. Saw a cyclist struggle to turn left from Avalon to 36th through the backed up traffic blocking the box while I was waiting for the light to change.
June 12, 2013 at 4:52 pm #791337
CeeBeeParticipantThere is a public meeting tonight (Weds 6/12) on the proposed revisions to the Bike Master Plan. Everyone should show up to give their input, they are looking to confirm what they heard in other public meetings earlier this year.Columbia Branch Library, 4712 Rainier Ave s
6:00 – 7:30 pm, Presentations at 6:30 pm.
(this is the closest one to WS). From their flyer:
You’re Invited – Help shape the future of bicycling in Seattle. At the open houses you will:
Get an overview of the updated Draft Bicycle Master Plan.
See a citywide map of proposed bike facilities (bike lanes, neighborhood greenways, cycle tracks and more) and learn how the map was designed and refined.
Review other parts of the draft plan – programs, project prioritization, end-of-trip facilities, maintenance and funding strategies.
Share your opinions.
June 12, 2013 at 10:52 pm #791338
KenParticipantI get aggressively responsive when people talk like this and I feel my safety is threatened.
We shall ignore the implied threat in your post.
I will defend myself with my cane and stumble slowly away when you come to my house to defend your safety. :)
The arterial starts at California and Oregon headed south, where the left turn is provided because there is no more left turns allowed for several blocks. Sometimes one and sometimes two lanes take traffic from north of the junction to two lanes turning on to Fauntleroy. Both of these lanes carry commuters (mingled with the Vashon ferry racers) to the bridge of your choice via Fauntleroy or Avalon. The left turn onto 35th provided a relief valve so those turning left did not clog up the single lane to Avalon.
If your outlook is so bicycle centric that you do not see this as something that will be sorely missed by damn near everyone who does not work downtown, then there is nothing I can do about that but do my best to make sure you compatriot (the current Mayor) is not returned to office. The damage is done and I am happy you got something you really wanted.
In this case the wants of the few are triumphant over the needs of the many.
Enjoy.
edit: that should be “right turn on to 35th” oops.
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