VIDEO: Lincoln Park court-conversion opponents rally, plot strategy

As they promised last weekend, opponents of Seattle Parks‘ plan to convert Lincoln Park‘s former tennis courts into pickleball courts came back today for a larger protest rally.

Their main concerns remain two-fold: That pickleball is too noisy for an area of the park where birds roost and nest in trees and people come for refuge from urban bustle, that possible lighting of the courts would also disrupt wildlife and that Seattle Parks made the court-conversion decision without environmental review and public input.

To recap – we reported in August, after a reader tip, that Parks planned to add pickleball striping to three of nearby Solstice Park‘s six courts during resurfacing work. At the time, the resurfacing work was considered imminent. But it hadn’t happened by the time Parks announced a change in plan in mid-September – that it would create six pickleball-only courts on the former tennis courts in the north part of the park, long used for storage. Solstice, Parks said, would remain tennis-only. Both these protesters and pickleball players said soon after that they would like to see Parks go back to the previous plan.

We counted about 60 people at the gathering’s peak. The protesters waved signs along Fauntleroy Way for a while before marching and chanting to the planned court site, where they gathered for speeches, by both organizers and by park users who spoke passionately about the solace they take in visiting it.

(Video added below, 7:33 pm)

They acknowledged a youth soccer match happening next to the court and described children’s laughter as a welcome sound, unlike the sound of pickleball, a recording of which was played at one point during the gathering, They also talked strategy, since so far Parks has not granted their request to have a public-comment period on the court-conversion plan. They plan to continue gathering names on an online petition, as well as emailing politicians and political candidates, from the City Council to Congress. Parks, meantime, plans to put an informational sign at the site this week, according to a brief discussion at this past week’s Morgan Community Association meeting, and Parks told us last week – after one activist launched an “occupation” – that a “work zone” will be created at the site.

170 Replies to "VIDEO: Lincoln Park court-conversion opponents rally, plot strategy"

  • Rhonda October 21, 2023 (5:06 pm)

    I’m so proud of them. I wish I could’ve joined them. Protect Lincoln Park for future generations! 🌲🍁🌱

    • Ryan October 21, 2023 (10:59 pm)

      We all have opinions and thoughts… what a train wreck! The energy being used to fight this battle… I use this situation as an example for my kids on the importance of having compassion for all but not over stepping in pursuing something personal.Train wreck… 🤦‍♂️

      • Rhonda October 22, 2023 (12:06 am)

        Ryan, Lincoln Park is worth fighting for to preserve so your kids have a quiet place to experience nature with your grandchildren.

        • bill October 22, 2023 (7:32 am)

          Lincoln Park is not “nature”! 

          • Jethro Marx October 22, 2023 (6:24 pm)

            If my hypothetical grandchildren think a city park that has natural elements is the full experience of wildness we have all failed. The ease with which we divide into warring sides of the issue (and pretty soon almost hate the other side) over racquet sports or birds or whatever is alarming. That picture of people holding signs is an absolute homerun if the call was “The group, absurd but well-off city residents, protesting some obscure and ridiculous made-up issue on a classy neighborhood’s street corner.” If we prevent the parks department from using existing laws and permitting standards to make decisions on improvements to our parks we are keeping them from doing their job. 

        • TM October 22, 2023 (8:09 am)

          Agreed Rhonda, Lincoln Park is a valuable natural resource, and not just a commodity. Future generations will benefit from Lincoln Park’s nature as well.

          We recognize that Seattle will be able to construct (or re-line) more pickleball courts in the future. But Seattle is long past the point where we can ever add any more parks like Lincoln.

          I think some people don’t get it, and that’s ok. But the folks who do are stakeholders here, leaving folks who don’t care either way and should respect that it may be really important to others, and pickleballers who just want more courts. These folks are also stakeholders, but need to realize getting more courts in town and leaving LP as-is are not mutually exclusive.

          • Jackson K October 22, 2023 (11:49 am)

            Have you seen where this is being built? It’s a part of the park next to existing soccer and baseball fields. It’s an eyesore. The new courts will enhance the park! 

          • Salo October 22, 2023 (1:45 pm)

            Well said! Too bad Seattle Parks did not engage with stakeholders in any meaningful way before charging forward.

        • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (9:32 am)

          The old tennis court was a part of that park for many years. Why would children want a “ quiet” park? My grandchildren go to a nature park outside of Seattle all the time, they’re not quiet nor is the playground at the end of the trail. 

      • Suzy Q October 22, 2023 (8:01 am)

        I agree Ryan,  nicely said 

      • Kt October 22, 2023 (2:32 pm)

        Google Pickle Ball noise lawsuits.   You will understand what these people are fighting for.  Cities being sued all over the country due to the nonstop noise.

        • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (3:17 pm)

          Just because there’s a lawsuit, doesn’t mean it’s true. It could be petty people looking to fight over the fact it exists, oh wait. 

        • Laura October 22, 2023 (4:18 pm)

          …Which is why it’s a bad idea to put pickleball courts in Solstice Park, which is surrounded by homes wanting to protect their right to quiet enjoyment of their property. Putting them in the middle of Lincoln park where no one lives makes sense and this does nothing to diminish the natural surroundings of the park (it’s HUGE and they’re making use of a small unused area that used to be tennis courts). It boggles my mind that people are protesting this. 

    • Derek October 22, 2023 (10:14 am)

      I don’t see a lot of diversity in this crowd 

      • Salo October 22, 2023 (7:39 pm)

        Crowd was as diverse as the neighborhood. ~10% POC. Source: I was there and I am one of them.

    • Diversityinparks October 22, 2023 (10:25 am)

      I too witnessed what I have always appreciated about Lincon Park as it being a multi-recreational park.  
      I was reassured and relieved to hear the human noises in the recreation area of the park (with the exception of the one older group with the outdoor sound system).  

      The children’s play area was scrambling with shrieks of delight, the playfields were all occupied with shouting athletes and cheering friends and parents on the sidelines.  
      Families were setting up for picnics. People were running, biking, walking dogs and just strolling.  

      I saw a wide variety of people, diversely enjoying the park as always in its history.  

      I saw some crows. &nb

      I then attended the protest against PB.  The turnout of a couple of dozen at 11:30 was surprisingly small after all of the hype.  
      The group of protesters differed from those people I witnessed   actively enjoying the park.  

      There was little, if any,  diversity both in age and race.  

      They were overwhelmingly white older naturally  greying, like myself, and mostly women.  

      There were several with dogs.

      I saw no children, tweens, teens or young adults engaged in the sign waving.  

      It saddened me the traction such a small group of hyper-activists has achieved with seemingly specious claims and was relieve by the low turnout.

      • TM October 22, 2023 (2:44 pm)

        A couple of dozen? Then you must have been in the wrong place, I counted at least 60. Re: diversity, I agree to some extent but if I go into any WS grocery store etc I see a very similar demographic. Kids, tweens, teens? Most of them have other things they want to be doing on a Saturday morning, and probably a lot of young parents and kids were at sports games etc. Your observation is not as telling as you are trying to make it to be. For anyone to come down to the park and spend 90+ minutes on a Saturday gathering for something they believe in is meaningful. I was looking forward to meeting and speaking with supporters of the current parks plan, but saw no posters, heard no dissenting voices during what was a fairly open meeting. You should have spoken up. It sounds like your goal was more to spy and spin what you saw?  If so that’s disappointing.

        • Diversityinpark October 22, 2023 (8:48 pm)

          Two pictures are worth two thousand petitions!

          This was well after the published 11:00 start of the activists.  
          There is virtually no diversity in sight.I  was there but there was no opportunity for any discussion.  

          This was like a liberal showing up at a MAGA rally,  what is the point in even talking?  

          There is no factual backup for the claims being made.  It was promoted as a protest, certainly not a forum for any sort of exchange of ideas.

          • JustSarah October 22, 2023 (9:21 pm)

            Let’s not pretend Kersti wants to have a discussion. She still has not managed to clearly articulate her stance. That video of her speech is comical, and undermines any point she thinks she’s making. She says she was standing at the site talking to a city planner when a sweeper came by on the path, and then later a blower… Which actually proves that this is an active, manicured, and sometimes noisy part of the park already. And yeah, I also see those, Parks trucks, riding mowers, etc. all the time. The arguments against this project are so incredibly full of holes.

          • SE Dick October 23, 2023 (11:04 am)

            Well Sarah *I’ve* clearly articulated my stance, at maybe too much length for you, and haven’t read a single *responsive, substantive* dispute or disproof of anything I’ve argued. But *I’d* like to have a discussion, so if you would, too, then let’s go, one thing at a time. I’ll start: applicable law exempts from public review and comment a lot of the work public agencies do, including the “maintenance” of “existing” facilities. I think that would mean like when I play tennis at the courts on Henderson one week and the next week find them closed for resurfacing, but later play tennis on them again. I don’t think what we’re all discussing is an existing–“in existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.“–facility, and I don’t think this is maintenance: “the process of maintaining or preserving someone or something, or the state of being maintained.“we support local initiatives that ensure the maintenance of community spirit”.So I don’t think the proposal to install pickleball courts on the site of long-abandoned tennis courts qualifies, under our law, as exempt from review of its impacts and public comment on same. I think the pretense of an exemption is unlawful, and I think our courts would agree. I think anyone filing now for an immediate injunction would be granted one, Parks’ action would be halted, and the bad idea reconsidered–legally. I think that would best serve and protect everyone’s varying interests and so the community’s, society’s, *greater* interest–the greater good. What do you think?

          • JustSarah October 23, 2023 (11:19 am)

            I think Kersti was seeking an attorney a few weeks ago for those reasons, and if there were legal grounds here the work would be halted. I also think that with all the chaos stirred up by the misleading information about where the courts were going, a lot of people have reached out to our mayor and other city leadership and likely triggered a lot of internal review. Yet the project is moving forward, which indicates they’re very confident in their legal grounds here. 

          • TM October 23, 2023 (10:21 am)

            Thanks for the pics and the reply. I was there, your sample pics don’t capture the scope of the group. As a relevant data point, you can see the WSB pic showing the crowd listening to speakers. I count circa 36 folks in there (incl news folks though), that pic alone undermines your count. And the pic was taken from about halfway into the crowd, so at least another 20 (including myself) are out of the frame. Maybe you just went to the early part out on the street.

            I’m sorry you didn’t feel that you could engage with the crowd. Pretty peaceful folks (greying even!), I know if I had had a chance to speak with you it would have been respectful. Everyone comes from different experiences and perspectives, it’s important to try to work things out. Would have been more effective communication than online comments.

          • Diversityinpark October 23, 2023 (11:12 am)

            TM, I stand by my photos taken at 11:07.  
            I arrived just before they headed out onto Fauntleroy and took the photos at the same time Tracy was taking notes on the sidewalk before approaching the activists and Patrick was taking photos from the east side of Fauntleroy Way.  
            Accepting your count, I had left,  of 36 including media half an hour later at the tennis courts is still a paltry turnout on a beautiful Sunday.  
            I doubt Kersti and company are declaring an overwhelming turn-out what with 4,000+ dittos.

            As far as discussions, you only need to view Kersti’s haughty dismissive comment that smacked down the young father with infant in stroller available on video.  Classy.

            I actually had a good conversation with the hero of the group “occupier” Lance several days ago.  
            He had never even heard of the Audubon Society!!! (thought it was a freeway in Germany) and is fine with people using the meadow for off leash dogs which was happening as we spoke.  
            And of course this was never promoted as a discussion gathering for two sides of an issue.  
            Kersti’s misleading petition makes no suggestion of civic engagement, just oppositional protest.  
            The fact that she littered the park with those plastic enclosed misleading  flyers is also indicative. 

  • West Marge October 21, 2023 (5:22 pm) love to see this energy to oppose the Link. If bet 100 bucks, no one even knows about the negative environmental impact of this project

    • Jay October 21, 2023 (6:28 pm)

      Think how misguided and out-of-touch this campaign is when they can’t even draw a fraction of the protesters that show up to oppose a pickleball court in a spot that used to hold a tennis court. ST3 was voted for and has overwhelming popularity among West Seattle residents.

    • Scarlett October 21, 2023 (6:48 pm)

      No, they probably don’t and neither do they care.  LIght rail has been elevated to the status of an ideology where cost-benefit analysis,  realistic assumptions and projections are heresy to the true believers.   People believe want they want to believe. 

      • Derek October 22, 2023 (1:09 pm)

        Scarlett, your lightrail comments over the past few years is boiled down to hating trains and preferring cars and not anything to do with the immense benefits of the lightrail. You change your reasoning so much.

  • R2 October 21, 2023 (5:23 pm)

    Just curious. Is there a difference in definition between a “park” and a “preserve” in terms of their intended use or purpose? 

    • Niko October 21, 2023 (6:34 pm)

      Well there’s the nisqually wildlife reserve down south which is partly a wetland and has trails but further restrictions as to going off trail and that sort of thing. However parks are designated with certain stipulations to protect them. Lincoln Park is unique and that it is quite large and very biodiverse

      • Lou October 22, 2023 (10:59 am)

        Schmitz park is a preserve. Lincoln park is mixed use.

  • Francis Parkman October 21, 2023 (5:28 pm)

    Please think of the birds! Sign my petition to ban screaming kids, barking dogs running loose, and whiny neighbors howling about Pickleball from Lincoln Park! Petition · Implement Noise Control Measures in West Seattle’s Lincoln Park ·

    • CC October 21, 2023 (9:52 pm)


  • justme October 21, 2023 (5:37 pm)

    The soccer game there today was much more noisy than any pickleball game I’ve heard.

    • Jon October 21, 2023 (6:35 pm)

      That is absolutely untrue

      • L October 21, 2023 (9:52 pm)

        Decibel metres exist. Perhaps this would be a good way to bring some objectivity into this discussion, especially as noise levels seem to be the primary complaint against pickleball…..

        • Sean October 23, 2023 (9:28 am)

          True or not, I have to say it was pretty funny that we could barely hear the speakers in the video over the background noise of kids and recreation happening in the background.

          • TM October 23, 2023 (10:27 am)

            Actually the only time I couldn’t hear the speakers was when the one person played the pickleball game recording. It’s unusual, it’s not as much the volume rather the pitch and staccato nature. 

  • DIversityinPark October 21, 2023 (5:43 pm)

    They acknowledged a youth soccer match happening next to the court and described children’s laughter as a welcome sound, unlike the sound of pickleball.”    NIMP’s statement.

    Remarkably ironic considering recent scholarly studies show the most feared sound in the animal kingdom is the human voice, even apex predators fear the human voice.  
    It confirms years of bear country warnings to talk and make noise. 
    Please note the people making up this protest, remarkably singular in race and age groups.  
    No families, no kids, tweens or teens.  Just older white people, like myself, and the odd person with a dog (mostly on leash).  
    The dog irony cannot be overstated, as they quite obviously degrade the parks flora and fauna and the petition conflated an off leash area (the meadow already is?) and the pickleball into one opposition. 

    • CarDriver October 21, 2023 (6:18 pm)

      So where are the yes to pickleball in Lincoln Park protestors??? If they want it so badly wouldn’t they be out here too?? They’re not intimidated by the no to pb people are they? I get the impression that there really isn’t that much interest in getting courts there and this provides a good excuse to not push for them.

      • Duwamesque October 21, 2023 (6:43 pm)

        The (majority) of folks who are fine with adding another sports modality to a recreational park are presumably not hysterical enough to physically “protest” such a minor change.

        • CarDriver October 21, 2023 (7:28 pm)

          So, commenting here is all they feel is needed to show they’re really in favor? after all they wouldn’t want their desire for something to label them as hysterical

          • Jackson K October 21, 2023 (8:56 pm)

            Because they are being built. Why do those of us that want them have to do anything? We are getting 6 courts to play Pickleball, socialize, and enjoy the beauty of Lincoln Park. 

      • Tyler October 23, 2023 (7:49 am)

        We exist, we just have better things to do with our time than protests.  If the city says they are going to do something we want, why do we need to show a public presence of gratitude?

  • Chris October 21, 2023 (5:53 pm)

    Did the noise from the chanting impact the birds?

    • Niko October 21, 2023 (6:37 pm)

      No one was chanting anything

      • WSB October 21, 2023 (7:17 pm)

        Yes, they were. They chanted as they walked from the roadside to the court-conversion site, as I reported above. The chant was rehearsed just before they started walking: “Keep our parks/a refuge for all.” I have video, but it was from the tail end as the group walked, so I wasn’t planning on including it in the clips we add to this shortly.

        • TM October 22, 2023 (8:28 am)

          It was pretty mild though, and only went for a few minutes. Respectful group all around. 

  • Marshall October 21, 2023 (5:58 pm)

    “… waved signs along Fauntleroy Way for a while before marching and chanting to the planned court site, where they gathered for speeches…”Shouldn’t they have walked quietly and silently to the site and had a moment of silence?

  • Suzanne October 21, 2023 (6:06 pm)

    Wasn’t able to be there today but wish I could have been.  Definitely hoping Parks opens this controversial decision to public comments.  That’s the right thing to do.  

    The native wildlife that depends on LP is getting squeezed out slowly but surely. Unlike humans, most animals can’t just pick up and move. 

    The peacefulness there is a world apart and an essential gift. Once it’s lost, it can’t be recovered. 

    • B October 21, 2023 (7:01 pm)

      I agree.  Pickleboard courts can go anywhere, but Lincoln park is a treasure that should be preserved in its natural state as much as possible.  West Seattle is extremely lucky to have this level of nature in the middle of our urban environment.

    • HS October 21, 2023 (8:01 pm)


      • Jackson K October 22, 2023 (11:52 am)

        Respectfully disagree. 

  • TJ October 21, 2023 (6:06 pm)

    So pickleball will hinder future generations use of the park Rhonda? On a existing concrete slab that once was tennis, which by the way the park survived for the current generation.  The park is meant for human recreation, not roosting birds. No birds will be harmed by this and seeing these signs is comical. It’s not a natural preserve or wildlife refuge. This is such a misguided thing to get worked up on and am glad the parks department is seeing that 

    • Rhonda October 21, 2023 (7:24 pm)

      Where does it end, TJ? When it’s no longer Lincoln Park and it’s become the Lincoln Sports Complex? This sets a precedent for more facilities like a BMX track, outdoor modern art and spulpture exhibit, more tennis courts, zipline, Frisbee golf course, basketball court(s), aerial obstacle course, beach volleyball pits, etc. There should be at least ONE place in West Seattle where trees, sand, water, and dirt have priority over concrete.

      • Zipline October 21, 2023 (8:00 pm)

        There is already a zip line in Lincoln park…

        • Fauntleroy Fairy October 21, 2023 (9:32 pm)

          A “zipline” in Lincoln Park? Not a great comparison considering it’s more more like a rope with a pulley and has had no impact at all on surrounding trees. 

      • DemandCurve October 21, 2023 (8:20 pm)

        Agreed if we approve re-striping some tennis courts the next stop is a nascar racetrack, open pit mining, and underground nuclear testing.  

      • Diversityinpark October 21, 2023 (9:17 pm)

        Yes  Rhonda.Where does it all end up if you get your way?No more baseball, no more swimming pool, no more children’s play area, no more soccer, no more horseshoes, no more trail workout stations, no more maintained paths, no more picnic facilities, no more wading pool, no more restrooms no more fishing, no more dogs…leading finally to Lincoln Park being a fenced off sanctuary for all but humans. And if Rhonda is new to West Seattle, they should become familiar with  Lowman Beach Park that had it tennis courts removed, the several tidal park sites along the Duwamish and the ArroyosNatural Area  to make FOUR “place(s)  in West Seattle where trees, sand, water, and dirt have priority over concrete.” 

        • Rhonda October 21, 2023 (11:13 pm)

          Diversityinpark, those facilities already exist in Lincoln Park. It has more than its fair share of such facilities and doesn’t need any more. It’s already reached a saturation point. BTW, our daughter and I used to play tennis on the Lowman court. The courts up the hill are just as fun.

          • Jackson K October 22, 2023 (11:53 am)

            Oh Rhonda. 

          • Diversityinparks October 23, 2023 (12:40 pm)

            “Just as fun,” Rhonda?

            I remember family picnics at Lowman Beach with rounds of tennis uniquely sited on the shores of Puget Sound with the lapping of waves and fresh ocean beach air.

            I wonder why we never considered the Solstice Park for an equal experience?  
            Maybe the main thoroughfare Fauntleroy Way is a sidewalk away with constant vehicular traffic, trucks, busses, roaring motorcycle and the occasional coal roller getting off the Southworth?  
            The sounds can drown out your stroke strikes.  
            At times, the fumes can feel palpable.  
            But the Solstice court surface is newer and has received updates and maintenance by Parks as well as some remarkably dedicated volunteers that quietly maintain the courts.  
            I have had fun on those court since they were installed (without SEPA?).
            I salute those dedicated volunteer tennis players I see nearly every morning at Solstice.  

      • WildPark October 21, 2023 (10:59 pm)

        @Rhonda: Like, Schmitz Park?

      • Resident October 22, 2023 (12:22 am)

        There is such a place. It’s name is Schmitz Park.

        • TM October 22, 2023 (10:20 am)

          Are you saying if we have 1 natural park in WS, then that should sate the nature folks? Can we think the same way about pickleball- if there are already multiple courts and locations in town, aren’t they good then? Seems to make sense using your reasoning.

          • Diversityinpark October 23, 2023 (2:21 pm)

            Of c course no one is saying there should only be 1 natural park in West Seattle.  

            There are already dozens of them.

             Close by we have Fauntleroy Park a wonderland with Fauntleroy Creek (yes salmon!) burbling through, Orchard Street Ravine, a hidden loop walk gem disguised at the cul-de-sac end of Orchard Street  east of California.  
            We have the new Arroyos Park.  
            We have the parks along the Duwamish.  
            We have Westcrest with its dedicated trail area fenced separate from off-leash.  
            We have the legendary Camp Long.  
            We have the Longfellow Creek Parks.
            West Seattle is blessed acres and acres of public green-space lining our hillsides of Marine View Drive, Beach Drive, Alki Ave, Harbor Ave and West Marginal Way.  

      • Bob October 22, 2023 (9:54 am)


        Beginning a statement with “where does it end” indicates to me that you’re leaning heavily into the fallacious slippery slope argument type. It’s quite literally illogical. I encourage you to take a step back and reconsider your argument and reframe it using a more logical thought structure so as to not dabble in fear mongering. Thanks!

  • Jackson K October 21, 2023 (6:11 pm)

    UPDATE: I found a new Pickleball partner! Looking forward to playing at these Lincoln Park courts. My group is not loud, we don’t whine, and always pick up after we leave. I also ride my bike to Lincoln Park. Once we get started, I’ll even offer some free clinics for beginners. 

    • Suzy Q October 22, 2023 (8:06 am)

      I would be there! Let’s go

  • rob October 21, 2023 (6:19 pm)

    this has to be the most stupid thing in this town in over thirty years . seattle the home of the never ending protesters

    • Zipda October 21, 2023 (7:11 pm)

      Why? Protests against pickles is as  a time honored pursuit.

      • Rob October 21, 2023 (8:48 pm)


  • Mike October 21, 2023 (6:24 pm)

    I can’t believe this is legitimately an issue.  Out of all things that enraged a group to protest, it’s this.  Record homicides, overdoses and hate crimes… People keep voting for the same stupid, but pickleball… The pitchfork and torches come out.

  • Neighbor October 21, 2023 (6:38 pm)

    Look at that space!  What a perfect spot for pickleball courts.  Thanks Parks!

    • Jackson K October 22, 2023 (11:57 am)

      Agreed! I encourage everyone to go to Lincoln Park to see where these courts are being built. It will be an improvement!!! No trees coming down, just a major upgrade to an abandoned tennis court. 

  • onion October 21, 2023 (6:55 pm)

    Lincoln Park belongs to the people, the Parks Dept. is merely tasked with maintaining the park per the wishes of the owners. If enough owners have concerns or objections to a proposed change then they should be heard. And owners who want pickleball should be heard as well. Why is this complicated?

    • D-Mom October 21, 2023 (7:28 pm)


    • Rudy h October 22, 2023 (10:40 am)

      well,then, let’s see what the de-comissioned Duwamish tribe would like to see there.

    • Highland Park neighbor October 22, 2023 (2:07 pm)

      Just move it back to Solstice Park which was the original plan. It’s simpler, it uses existing courts and lighting, and it won’t bother the birds or the wildlife. We finally have ravens nesting in the park again! I don’t know why you didn’t listen to players in the first place- Solstice is easier to get to for players too.

      Parks department, please just let this one go, it was a bad idea. Don’t try to pull a fast one by skipping the environmental impact survey on a site that hasn’t been used for at least 30 years for that purpose.

    • David October 22, 2023 (9:42 pm)

      Agreed parks should have held comment first- let discourse be heard. I remember those tennis courts and why there not there now- too hard to maintain with the forrest always wanting more space, tree roots popping up through the surface and constant need of cleaning and I’m not talking just a sweep. I’m all for more pickle ball  if it’s really needed. I’m not convinced it is? Where’s the data? Parks let’s engage in real conversation, So we don’t don’t be little each other as citizens!

      • Diversityinpark October 23, 2023 (10:01 am)

        Quite imaginative scenario, David.  
        I wonder what happed to all of those tree roots popping up through the surface?  
        After decades of no maintenance there are virtually no tree roots popping up (check out the photos or visit the site yourself), despite the fact the trees ringing the courts have grown.  
        I played those courts hundreds of times and never experienced the conditions you claim.

  • Scarlett October 21, 2023 (6:55 pm)

    In a city that is inward, self-preoccupied and prone to excessive  rumination, I’m questioning whether more space for quiet reflection is a good thing.

    • Vic October 21, 2023 (7:42 pm)


    • junctioneer October 21, 2023 (9:32 pm)

      That’s actually a darn good insight

    • Cat Girl October 22, 2023 (6:14 am)

      This is comment is ridiculous. Leave us introverts alone and let us have some quiet natural spaces! The world needs more places for quiet contemplation. Every rude comment on here makes me hate pickle ball more. Is there something about this so called “sport” that attracts rude people? 

      • Jackson K October 22, 2023 (12:00 pm)

        I play and I’m not rude. I promise you will still have PLENTY of quiet space after the courts are built. If you stay away from the existing soccer field and baseball fields (and soon pickleball courts) you will be able to enjoy 88% of the park for quiet reflection. 

  • alkiannie October 21, 2023 (6:59 pm)

    Thank you, Tracy and Patrick, for continuing to report on this. 

  • Mel October 21, 2023 (7:31 pm)

    This is the silliest thing I’ve ever seen. With all the issues this city has, pickle ball in the park is what you choose to stand up for? I was at the soon to be courts today, at a kid’s soccer match. And guess what? I can guarantee the kids on the fields, and on the playground next door were far more loud than pickle ball players. I also don’t even care about pickle ball, I just can’t get over that this has become such a big deal.

  • Mike October 21, 2023 (7:47 pm)

    So cool and so edgy to be a part of something so dumb. Kids dying around the world today and these clowns are trying to protest an OLD tennis court being REFURBISHED for people to have FUN and step away from their phones, tvs and computers….

    • This October 21, 2023 (9:33 pm)

      Mike is right, pure comedy. This is not the issue that I expected to draw 60+ protesters in west seattle today. Innocent people being bombed around the world, our country divided, record high homicide rates in Seattle, oh yeah, and pickle ball paint jobs…  

  • Paul October 21, 2023 (8:22 pm)

    I almost thought this was satire. Of all the issues and problems in this world that deserve one’s attention, this has to be near the bottom of the list. Also, this trend of using the plight of stressed wildlife to justify blocking change of any sort is nothing more than a ruse to disguise one’s avarice and inability to share a resource. This scarcity mindset is far to prevalent in Washington and I swear it’s getting worse (it seems to be a negative trait of brainy/intellectual temperament). More sharing and less hoarding would be a welcome change. 

    • Jackson K October 21, 2023 (9:01 pm)

      Great post! I’ve never seen avarice  used in a sentence! 

      • WSB October 21, 2023 (9:09 pm)

        9th time in comments on our site in 16 years, according to my admin-end search of the comment database. (Had to look that up since you mentioned it.)

        • Jackson K October 21, 2023 (10:29 pm)

          Now you’re showing off, WSB! 

    • junctioneer October 21, 2023 (9:43 pm)

      It’s hard to take seriously concerns about wildlife when the concerns are only brought up when they coincide with people’s personal wishes, yet they still use the wildlife as their justification. Can we at least be honest? Just say the sound is annoying and suddenly we can have a conversation.

      • Alf October 21, 2023 (11:33 pm)

        As a non pickle player, I think it is important to remember that Lincoln Park is a urban park not a national park back country We are taxed to have access for community activities that cross a variety of interests and  communities.  Fortunately the park is large enough to incorporate structured activities and wide open spaces that are quiet and more  tranquil.parks and rec are repurposing a concrete slab, no indication any elimination of trees and lights are not a done deal and the park has hours of operations so folks won’t be playing at 2 am-keep feeling there is another agenda

      • Scarlett October 22, 2023 (12:29 am)

        junctioneer:  My thoughts exactly.  

    • 1994 October 21, 2023 (11:28 pm)

      Sharing is caring. Isn’t that what preschoolers are taught? Great post Paul!

  • 1994 October 21, 2023 (8:26 pm)

    Ooohhh, just think of the other activities that can take place on a pickle ball court! Little tykes riding their scooters or other wheeled things about, or even learning how to play a sport!  The court can be used for other activities besides pickle ball. The ‘nature preserve’ people need to get over it! Besides, this is a  city park not a nature preserve, not a wildlife refuge, it has no designation as a critical area….Yes there is wildlife living in the park but there is wildlife roaming our streets too!  See all the  blog reports on rabbits, coyotes, eagles, squirrels, even a cougar report that ended up to be untrue. My neighbor had a pickle ball court for many years until the property sold. This was in a residential neighborhood here in West Seattle. You learn to live with it. Animals adapt. People need to adapt.

    • Cat Girl October 22, 2023 (6:15 am)

      Animals don’t adapt that quickly though and that’s why we are having mass extinctions all over the world. Pickle ball can adapt and move elsewhere a lot easier. 

  • SE Dick October 21, 2023 (8:36 pm)

    No dog in this fight but a long love *and knowledge* of nature incl birds, and a deepening awareness that one toxic root of the decline in US civility and discourse is individuals conflating their own ignorance of a given topic–say, ravens–with there being nothing to know about that topic, or with that topic not really being a thing. Ppl here righteously mock, ‘it’s a park, people!’ as if with no further definition that word conveys one universal meaning–recreation. Both are infantile and drag the body politic down.So on reading a post-protest post (post, people! Post!) On quoting SPR’s Rachel Schulkin, I have to join in. Seattle Parks and Recreation (wait for it… *there* ya go) is quoted, “While there is no hard and fast rule, projects that bring a new use to a park or park-owned space could trigger a parking study. A maintenance project like replacing a play area or resurfacing an old court do not.”This is ignorant or misleading–one of the two. “No hard and fast rule”… what? We just all get along? make things up as we go? roll with the changes? all for one? Holy cow. SPR relentlessly refers to SEPA and “existing facilities”… So google Seattle SEPA. It’s not a “hard and fast rule”–it’s the law. Seattle Municipal Code, under Washington Administrative Code, and it’s super-long, and tedious, and detailed. The law, and law generally, strive to provide rules so *very* hard and fast as to completely obviate ambiguities and arguments and rancor like this. So the SMC carefully defines many maybe seemingly simple words, like ‘affecting’: ” “Affecting” means having, or may be having, an effect on.. ” Great. But SMC does not define ‘existing’. Is a slab of concrete wthout nets or painted lines, buried for years under eco blocks compost and heavy machinery–or, cleared of those–is that an ‘existing’ tennis court? Is the slab of a burned-down house an existing house? Is a parking lot or tarmac an existing tennis court?SMC doesn’t define ‘maintain’. What is it to ‘maintain’? SPR wouldn’t want the dictionary def, that’s for sure. Have the tennis courts been ‘maintained’? Can they be ‘maintained’ to their ‘existing’ use? Or would that necessarily dictionarily need be something like ‘restored’?Except for the fact that as it stands now they won’t even be *restored* to their existing, former, original, or intended use: they’ll be modified to serve a new use. The much-cited SEPA under SMC and WAC exempts from review and public comment *all* “maintenance” of *any* kind of *any* public facility *anywhere under the municipal sun*… well… “involving no… changes in use beyond that previously existing.” So, storage area, as far as I can see. Or, to pretend any of the rest of it makes any sense at all, is a croquet game on a golf course a change of use? Or no? Ask the duffers. Is pickleball the same as tennis–as ping pong, as badminton–because of the hitting of something over a net with something else? Or is it the same as racquetball paddleball and squash, net not part of the definition? Hockey? ‘Over’ not part of it?Or is pickleball a different game, a different use, than a storage area no I mean than ‘existing tennis’ because it’s a different game played on yes hard flat ground but a much smaller area–so more courts and users and games ball-strikes and traffic–with entirely different game pieces that make entirely different kinds of noise which are absolutely certain to disturb wildlife–esp birds–at entirely different pitches than tennis ever has or did, even long long ago when its play there existed–was existing?I believe Parks (and Rec) is just trying to do the best it can to accommodate a very vocal, entitled (because Lawd, we all are) ‘community’–minority– (because at this level of interest we all are) who’ve been demanding that those tennis courts be made available for a (their) new, or for new, use.We’ve recently learned that whales communicate on wavelengths our old technology couldn’t intercept before. Because we couldn’t ‘hear’ it, we didn’t think they did. More, we thought they didn’t. Earlier this month a Scientific American headline was that “solar storms can hinder bird migration”. I still don’t really know what a solar storm is or how any living thing could have anything at all to do with one. We don’t know 1% of what we don’t know. And birds worldwide have declined 60% in 60yrs–because the know-nothings make the most noise.I got no dog in this fight, don’t even like serving the interests of privileged NIMBYs, if that’s any of what’s going on here. I’ve lived a mile from Seward Park for 30yrs, watched it go from one main ‘spine’ trail to I don’t know how many now chopping it up into ever smaller pieces–because Parks cannot police every entitled individual blazing their own path through the acre, and has to mitigate the damage they collectively do. If you don’t think that takes a real knowable toll on non-human beings, you don’t know what you’re talking about and it would be real decent of you, and helpful, to humbly defer.Because all we can do, as we multiply and multiply and densify, is make better and wiser decisions to control ourselves as a whole. And to do that we can sometimes look to the law–SEPA SMC WAC–and the lawyers.So WS ppl, bird lovers, libtards, tree-huggers, poets, somebody–bring a lawyer to the fight. Finger in the dike. World in flames. What can we do. It’s just an effin squirrel, right?

    • Diversityinparks October 21, 2023 (9:25 pm)

       “absolutely certain to disturb wildlife–esp birds”
      After such a thorough  unpacking of of your take on SEPA and Seattle Rules, 
      can you please share your similar research showing the “absolute certainty” of wildlife detriment?

      • SE Dick October 21, 2023 (10:58 pm)

        You bet, Diversity. Here’s a start. Ask Google anything, pick yer authority. Does noise harm birds?,and%20inescapable%20source%20of%20stress.What I actually said was that pickleball is certain to disturb wildlife *differently than tennis did*, so, different impact from new, changed use, worthy of policy pause. But did that presume that the insane noise humans produce and pretend to adjust to is harmful to the natural world? Absolutely without question–according to science. Thanx fr asking.

        • Diversityinparks October 22, 2023 (8:59 am)

          Thanks for the Google search SE Dick.  
          Maybe read the citations you provide.  
          They do not address the issues discussed here.  
          They regard light in peoples backyard and traffic noise and  migrating n birds.  
          Nothing regarding pickleball.”
          The study shows that depending on the circumstances and bird species, light and noise can have different impacts, whether those are positive or negative.
          But it also shows that decreasing both light and noise pollution could have some positive effects. “Restoring natural sensory environments reclaims usable habitat for lots and lots of species,” he said.  
          study conducted on tree swallows found that ongoing traffic noise disrupts stress hormone levels in nestlings and adult females”

          • SE Dick October 22, 2023 (12:57 pm)

            Sorry, big D. I thought your objection, like that of a number of uninformed ppl abv, was that noise, generally, isn’t importantly harmful to wildlife. I’ve read and learned so much, watched listened and witnessed so much, to the contrary that I don’t need to read any more citations on the topic. (As Mike rightly gets, what I need is to breathe.) It is widely, deeply studied and evidenced fact, available to all able and willing to read it.But (did Sarah’s dbl ‘carriage return’ work? Thx, JS! Those w the attn span will thank you!) what you wanted was for me to provide my evidence on pickleball per se vis a vis wildlife. My understanding is it’s a pretty new thing/product/fad, so I’ve ignored it, and science is probably just digging in. Google ‘pickleball noise’ tho and we can conclude unless we’re ignorant obstructionists that it’s noisy–first result on my browser alleges twice as loud as tennis, all others just a chorus of ‘pickleball, noisy’.So let’s go ‘pickleball noise wildlife’. What do we see. Just a lot more on how really noisy–‘sharp popping sound’–and contentious this fad seems to be. Let’s click ‘show results with wildlife’. Amazing: all results seem to be about this brewing local battle right here. Could that be because those long-ago former tennis courts were placed right up against a fragment of forest habitat that in 2023 is incomprehensibly scarcer than when the vestigial slab was poured there, maybe before Rachel Carson exposed the lie of DDT? I don’t know. But let’s research this another way:’Pickleball noise frequency’, that sharp popping sound that will have me marking all outdoor courts on Google Maps so as to avoid them. “Pickleball has a high pitch, with a frequency of 1.2k Hz”. So, ok: more like big ping pong than soft tennis, the crack of a hardball bat, every second or two, times six (at first). Still, so what (maybe sez you).’Noise frequency harmful wildlife.’ Wow the absolute universe of human knowledge and information right here in our hands. Absolutely miraculous. Such an endless string of scientific exploration. Almost too much to make use of. And I don’t even know that ‘frequency’s the issue. Just a guess. A start. But here: “Behavioural measures of absolute auditory sensitivity in a wide variety of bird species show a region of maximum sensitivity between 1 and 5 kHz.”So, “maximum sensitivity” including just the range at issue. So you say, hell I’m sensitive! So what! I go in the other room! Prove to me that pickleball harms anything! And I say, man I need to breathe. I don’t need to do even more research now to convince ppl who don’t want to know. I’ll tell you that what I’ve learned in the past is that stress affects number of offspring, reduces thickness of egg shells, that habitat is a fraction of what it used to be, here and everywhere, a century ago and last year. Google some of these terms and ‘failure to thrive’, google some of the birds you can name and the word ‘decline’. If you want to *learn* about *whether* the noise pickleball generates *might* add consequentially to the burdens humans place on all non-human beings and *allow* that those beings have *their own value*, Diversity, google for yourself. The proof is out there.

          • Diversityinpark October 23, 2023 (10:41 am)

            I am quite enjoying your googled diatribe, Dick.
            And your creative questions, “Could that be because those long-ago former tennis courts were placed right up against a fragment of forest habitat that in 2023 is incomprehensibly scarcer than when the vestigial slab was poured there?”

            I can answer that with an unequivocal no.  
            I was born in the 50s in Fauntleroy.  
            Lincoln Park was our ‘backyard’.  
            We played on those courts then and the 
            trees that were newly planted circling the court were low and a challenge to finding errant tennis (white, no yellow then) balls.  

            Anecdotally I admit, though with vast more experience in Lincoln Park than most people weighing in, there were fewer protections of wildlife, less knowledge and less wildlife in the park than now. 

            By virtually all reputable accounts Lincoln Park is thriving with wildlife despite their biggest challenge to emerge in the last 60 years,

            Back in the day, you rarely saw a dog in Lincoln Park, off leash dogs were even more scarce. 
            Of course that was back when there were many more children in Seattle than dogs.  
            Not now.

            The damage that dogs do, both on leash and off leash, to Lincoln Park and its Puget Sound beach far surpasses any of pickleball’s suggestion of threat.  

            Dogs are louder than pickleball (barking), urinate and defecate (surprisingly not all dog owners do not bag their dog waste), chase, scare, and sometimes capture & kill or maim wildlife, destroy natural areas off of trails, disrupt nests, chase squirrels, threaten and occasionally bite innocent park users.  

            Now, its impossible to take a quiet stroll through Lincoln Park without encountering dogs and irresponsible entitled dog owners.  
            Some of the NIMPs (Not In My Park) actually showed up at the protest with dogs!  
            Where are their real concerns?

          • SE Dick October 23, 2023 (11:57 am)

            Hey D this is great! Maybe we could do this! Because–you’ll love this–I’ll readily admit I looked and looked for an aerial pic of where those courts used to be, thinking that if they were on a thoroughfare I’d leave it all alone. Finally found one: seemed to be–yes–fields, maybe sports fields, to the left, old-growth–looked like to me!–doug-fir forest frag to right. That’s when I dove in. But–new topic, #2–I’m more than with you on all dog issues! and I’ve had and loved ’em. But my thoughts on entitled off-leash a-holes are not protected by free speech. They as much as anything will have destroyed Seward Park. But. The worst offenses have no bearing on other offenses; assault does not excuse or incline us to invite bullying. And. Neither of these things–old-growth (I was wrong!) or 60yo; dogs or their ignorant (of the social contract) owners–really has any bearing. Bringing dogs in is like saying we shouldn’t be talking abt LP at all bc of Gaza, and I can tell you from intimate personal experience that a small stand of trees just 25yo provides habitat for more wild life forms than you might believe, from tiny fungi to hawks. None of that’s pertinent now if at all. What’s pertinent now I laid out for Sarah’s rebuttal above. By the time this maybe posts you or she may have destroyed that logically. If not we can talk about trees dogs noise fads and civility, exchanging ideas or shouting nonsense as we please, at legally-mandated public hearings over which/whose priorities should prevail. See you there.

          • stew October 23, 2023 (1:12 pm)

            DOGS!!!!!! …………….dogs are gross loud and eat wildlife…………..dogs are emotional slaves ………………ban all dogs in all parks an public spaces

    • Actually Mike October 22, 2023 (7:02 am)

      Good grief, Dick–come up for air already! And NO PICKLEBALL IN LINCOLN PARK!

  • SE Dick October 21, 2023 (8:42 pm)

    I didn’t read 37 comments while i worked through that, and knew it was awful long but didn’t know paragraphs wouldn’t even work, so, sorry, to any i owe that. Or, sue me. Sorta wink.

    • Lura October 21, 2023 (9:00 pm)

      I read every word and I thought it was a great perspective. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write it up and share it.

    • bill October 22, 2023 (7:43 am)

      TL;DR. Since you mention paragraphs, some people manage to incorporate paragraphs in comments here. I would like to know the secret.

      • JustSarah October 22, 2023 (10:22 am)

        • SE Dick October 22, 2023 (3:08 pm)

          Just because I think sarcasm is a cancer and don’t want to be misconstrued as cancerous here, in the uncertain event you read my abv 2nd response to Diversityinparks near the start there when I thanked you that was what I thought would be after my first successful paragraph break of maybe five, which would have made another screed look more like six li’l tweets that the likes of proud refuseniks like bill might read. I even went back, delete delete to run the sentences together, then enter enter again, to be sure. But no go. So, I’m sorry. Didn’t work for me or any stalwarts who waded thru–or maybe Mugsy, and I hope some read that too.

  • Graciano October 21, 2023 (8:48 pm)

    For those protesting Pickleball in Lincoln park, will you be directly effected by someone playing Pickleball, didn’t think so. 

  • Alki resident October 21, 2023 (9:03 pm)

    The irony of complaining about the pickle ball noise but the chants through the park and yelling in the background from adults and children were perfectly acceptable. And once again, the misleading statements about lighting harming wildlife when that exact tennis court had lighting back in the day. The majority of the people protesting has zero knowledge of the old court. Also, I’ll add the reason why people who actually want the pickle ball court in Lincoln Park aren’t “ protesting “ is because it’s not that serious, we’ve already seen the start of the project and we have better things to do than look silly standing on Fauntleroy. Ps. You’ve got quite a few people coming from Puyallup that are on a pickle ball league that will be putting money into our community after they play at LP. 

    • TM October 22, 2023 (7:48 am)

      “You’ve got quite a few people coming from Puyallup that are on a pickle ball league that will be putting money into our community after they play at LP.“

      This is really interesting. So we can expect a local economic boon as a by-product of the courts? To what degree, should businesses start girding for the rush?

      But wait a minute, I thought Seattle Parks’ plan was supporting a perceived lack of pickleball options for Seattleites. Are we leveraging Lincoln Park for populations well outside the city? Packing the courts regularly with folks from places like Puyallup seems like it might extend the “scarcity” of courts for local folks. Maybe it’s just part of this big economic plan I’m not understanding?

      Alki Resident, seems like you are pretty read in, can you explain more? How and why is this Puyallup group already planning to be Lincoln regulars?

      • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (12:44 pm)

        My son in law is from West Seattle and now lives in Puyallup if it’s any of your business. The troll has brought in many visitors to our area as well, coming from as far as England and Norway. They’ve been eating and shopping here. Pickle ball has 5 million players in our country alone. There are leagues in Auburn and everywhere else. It’ll be nice for other communities to see what our community has to offer. We go to many small towns and communities all the time and support businesses. This’ll be no different. Lots of kids and adults are looking forward to the refurbished court.  Where do you think people go from the ferry? No different. 

  • justme October 21, 2023 (9:14 pm)

    This comment thread should win a mention at least for the humor and entertainment. Thanks WSB for sharing all the views.

  • TJ October 21, 2023 (9:25 pm)

    Schmitz Park is completely natural and there is no recreation in it besides trails for those who need that. Lincoln Park is a multi use park. Using wildlife as a excuse to try to stop this is a joke as none will be harmed. This whole thing is turning in to the silliest protest I’ve heard of. Citing decibel ratings of the ball off the paddle. A sit in. This thing can’t get fast tracked fast enough 

  • Kalo October 21, 2023 (10:19 pm)

    Seems to me, animals in are in enough of a “pickle” in this neighborhood with all the destruction of their habitat. Let them continue to have a space that is quiet and calm, a place reserved for them to call home nd thrive.

    • Mugsy October 22, 2023 (11:00 am)

      I agree!  Let’s look at a “pie” of Lincoln Park and realize how carved away it has gotten to be.  Many types of recreation are already served with dedicated, developed areas, which are melded into swaths of use with picnic table groupings, shelters and established trails, or footpaths disrespectfully trampled in by shortcuts.  Why is an out-of-the-way section preserved for “quiet space” not deemed to be a valuable resource worth fighting for?  Instead, it is being viewed as a poor use of space or an opportunity to repurpose for pickleball an area that already was already used decades ago by tennis players.  We might be missing the point that this is an excellent opportunity to “undo” a previous decision made long ago, when our West Seattle population was a fraction of what it used to be.  I don’t have a statistic to back up that statement…I don’t need one.  I open my eyes and see single family homes all around me being torn down for development with density in mind over aesthetics or quality of life.  More and more people are moving here, and that is not likely to change.    I have lived here since 1980 and have watched the use of the park grow with each decade. From our home, we hear the squeals of children playing, people yelling, bagpipes and drumming, event whistles blowing, the clang of bats and crowds cheering at the baseball field and frequent car alarms from the often  times packed parking lots.  These sounds carry and are increased or decreased with the seasons.   We accept these sounds, knowing they are brief, not daily, and part of living near a popular city park.  We get that, so don’t tell us to move away.  There is no escaping noise in a big city. West Seattle is no longer known for it’s quiet “mature/senior” population.  That change was inevitable and predictable with the general growth of the city, and the attraction of the unique beauty of West Seattle.   That is not my issue!  My issue is the lack of value placed on the small “piece of the pie” that the protestors are fighting for, and, I venture to say, we should ALL be fighting for.  It’s about recognizing that a portion of our population realizes this rare opportunity to serve the soul and spirit of individuals THAT MATTER AS MUCH AS swimmers, baseball players, fitness course users, picnic planners, bicyclists, event participants, and potential picklers.  Like the quiet we are seeking to preserve, our voices might also be quiet. I was unable to attend, but  I applaud and support the folks who showed up for the cause of preserving this small area, because if we are too quiet, we surely might lose this opportunity to PAUSE and consider what we are really doing.   The repurposing of the tennis courts is a quick fix bad idea  that will add a level of disruption that many of you may never have witnessed, so may not fully understand.   Make a trip over to Delridge or High Point Community Center when teams are playing outdoors.  Listen for yourselves.  Daily pickleball noise (plastic pop pop pop!) cannot and should not be compared with the intermittent sounds I previously mentioned.   Once we have invited the sport into the park, it will be hard to go back.  Lights for night play will come next when funding is available.  Lincoln Park should be able to offer recreational opportunities as well as a sweet spot of silence to our population, not become one step closer to an outdoor sports complex.  As it is, it’s becoming harder to find quiet spots in the park.  Let’s not lose this one too.  Think about the future of the restorative benefits of nature that we are losing at an alarming rate, before it’s too late.  PLEASE NO PICKLEBALL IN LINCOLN PARK!!

  • Lots of Options October 21, 2023 (10:30 pm)

    There are other options for restriping tennis courts in West Seattle: Hiawatha, Delridge, SW Athletic Complex, even River Playfield on 12th near Myrtle.  No need to be confined to LP or Solstice.  

  • Cat Girl October 22, 2023 (6:23 am)

    All the hateful and rude comments here are beyond unnecessary. Is it really that awful that people in West Seattle want a to protect nesting birds and natural spaces? Pickle ball is incredibly loud. My parents live 4 blocks from a court and you can hear it from their backyard. A court in Lincoln Park will disturb everyone and every creature in the park much more than an occasional soccer game or kids playing in a designated play area. It is not ridiculous to care about your neighborhood and local parks. It is ridiculous to mock those who do. 

    • TM October 22, 2023 (11:01 am)

      Agreed. Those who value the park as-is and are concerned about the impact of noise are stakeholders here. The mockery bit is ridiculous, lame, and unproductive. We’re not a minority of random entitled wingnuts, we are your neighbors. And you are ours. Noise impacts are not just random opinions argued over in blog comments, it’s a known issue nationwide, just google it. Local Pickeball groups and Parks are aware of this, and the pressure may be driving the non-transparent, rushed effort to put pickleball courts in Lincoln Park. 

    • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (11:43 am)

      The court has been there since the 60’s which is more proof how much you protestors know nothing about this situation. 

    • Duwamesque October 22, 2023 (12:34 pm)

      Yes it is ridiculous and this “protest” is worthy of ridicule. There’s no evidence whatsoever that pickleball disturbs nature any more than any other loud activity at a recreational park. You personally don’t like the sport and are using environmental “concerns” as a fig leaf for that opinion. This is absurd NIMBYism bordering on the deranged.

      • Cat Girl October 22, 2023 (2:35 pm)

        I don’t give one fig about pickleball. What I don’t like is the absolute rudeness and disregard that the pro pickleball people are show In the comments and that has turned me off to the game and the players. I’m incredibly concerned with the local ecosystem and the environment as a whole, as are many other people in West Seattle. You don’t know me or my personal convictions so keep your accusations to yourself. Natural spaces are incredibly important to humans in urban environments. If you want a concrete jungle I recommend you move to NYC. 

        • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (3:25 pm)

          Cat Girl you just proved you know nothing about the existence of the court. It’s been sitting there since the 60’s. It was well lit with tall lights and was very used all through my childhood by many in the 70’ and 80’s. Your concrete jungle comment is far fetched and unwarranted. This court will simply be resurfaced and brought back to life There were birds there before and the birds will still be there when pickle ball is played by whomever that’s welcome to come play. 

          • TM October 22, 2023 (4:50 pm)

            The “court” is now a fairly beat-up slab. It was originally a tennis court, a different use, and a very different impact. I moved into a house on Fauntleroy across the street from the park 25 years ago, it wasn’t in use then. We know this, your gatekeeping is getting tedious. 

            None of your arguments or counters (“the ferry will drown out the sound”, “we’ll enjoy an economic boon from pickleball players from out of town”, “when I played there in the 60’s and 70’s it obviously didn’t affect birds”, among many others) have sold me, at all. In fact you have definitely energized more people against your cause. Keep it up! 

          • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (7:01 pm)

            On the contrary. You being across from the park is all the reason to simply be yet another nay sayer. The condition of the court is better than non at all and will quickly be restored at very little cost . You can mock all you want but living as a child at Lincoln Park everyday vs an adult strictly living near by gives you no history of the past tennis courts use. And yes, the ferry certainly drowns out a lot of noise, as do the many sirens a day going to Kenny Home and beyond, and motorcycles on Fauntleroy. Where are your hostile chants about that? 

          • Cat Girl October 22, 2023 (5:14 pm)

            So, it hasn’t been used in 30 years? And back then  it was used for tennis, which is nowhere near as disruptive as pickleball? I’m well aware of all these facts. Just because it was used long long ago, doesn’t mean it needs to be revived. 70% of the wild animal populations have disappeared since the 1970s, so you are incorrect in your assertion that animals will be fine and always here.

          • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (7:03 pm)

            Wildlife die off and move around. They don’t necessarily stay in one place their whole life. It wasn’t many many years ago that it was used like you’d love to believe. Non the less it it still there and it’s going to be very welcomed and enjoyed soon. 

          • Cat Girl October 23, 2023 (6:35 am)

            I don’t think I have ever seen someone express absolute ignorance with as much clarity as Alki Resident has here. Where did 70% of the global wildlife population move to?!?! Off planet?!?! Alki Resident is just another greedy old person who doesn’t care about protecting the environment for future generations, because they’ll die before conditions become unlivable. 

          • TM October 22, 2023 (8:29 pm)

             Wildlife die off and move around.”

            Alki Resident, you have really outdone yourself with this one. Not a lot of use in trying to have a dialogue with someone who really doesn’t care what the truth is, rather is interested in just what she herself wants, and will use any random angle to avoid saying “you might have a point there”. 

          • SE Dick October 22, 2023 (10:05 pm)

            The beautiful thing, TM (and Cat Girl, Lura, Denise and others) is that ppl can engage in this unfounded, unresponsive, nonsensical wishful thinking until they pop a vein… but just as it’s doing in NY, GA, FL and DC, once it hits US courts it’ll be heard and considered by educated people trained in nothing but reason logic and law, and it’ll meet the brick wall of what still clamps this sloppy democracy together. ‘Maintenance of an existing facility’ is hitting the ball one week and the next finding the place closed for resurfacing, not what Parks is trying to ram through here to make the bullying stop. This exemption from review and public process is unlawful. Your link on Cap Hill makes clear they know just what they’re doing and what a contemporary EIS would do here. Right-thinking ppl file for an injunction, the whole bad idea will fold. So go, protesters, organizers, gentle ppl, go to court. The force will be with you.

  • Watertowerjim October 22, 2023 (6:28 am)

    The shark has officially been jumped.

  • waikikigirl October 22, 2023 (6:51 am)

    How can other “Cities” in the Seattle vicinity have so many Pickleball courts and we not heard about any protests for having them?

  • JK October 22, 2023 (7:47 am)

    This entire thing is every Almost Live episode wrapped up into one, with the main characters not realizing they’re the joke. 

  • Actually Mike October 22, 2023 (8:46 am)

    Why is this all of a sudden a “Pickleball Emergency” that must be jammed through without public input, SEPA review, etc.? Parks & Rec already offers 12 (count ’em, Twelve) pickleball courts in West Seattle alone–in addition to those at the YMCA and other locations.

    But there’s only one Lincoln Park, and nothing else like it anywhere in West Seattle. How would you feel about a rush-rush plan to stuff a pinball arcade into the sanctuary of your church, all of a sudden like let’s get it done yesterday already? 

  • Admiral Mom October 22, 2023 (9:04 am)

    Yes to pickleball courts. Yes to options for our youth to stay away from substances and out of their bedrooms, glued to their phones. Parents of teenagers understand.

    • TM October 22, 2023 (10:31 am)

      I live in the Fauntleroy area, and am the parent of teenagers who grew up across the street from LP. They still enjoy it regularly, for what it is. We’ve seen whales 20’ off of the point in front of Colman. Bald eagles nearly every visit. Owls, etc. They appreciate LP for the serenity and nature. They haven’t been waiting for pickleball to free them from screens (which of course they still use). There are sports-specific facilities all over this town and region, and options to add more pickleball capacity without using LP. 

      • Admiral Mom October 22, 2023 (10:58 am)

        My teens have enjoyed the nature and owls and eagles and everything else. They also have played there. And would love to be able to add pickleball to the wonderful options. I don’t see why this is such contentious conversation

        • TM October 22, 2023 (1:44 pm)

          Because it’s not an either-or. Pickleball will be fine without Lincoln Park. 

      • Diversityinpark October 22, 2023 (9:45 pm)

        I certainly hope that your kids that so enjoy Lincoln Park for (non-native) owls and whales off the point do not have to got to “sports-specific facilities all over this town and region” when they can swim or play water polo in Colman Pool, play baseball next to the old tennis courts, play soccer in the soccer field, learn horseshoes in the pits, run cross-country through the developed trails, do circuit training, etc.  
        I shudder at the carbon footprint of your driving your kids to sports-specific facilities all over this town and region.  
        We have these wonderful active parks just so you do not have to travel all over contributing to demise of all.  
        Of course here in West Seattle we are blessed with an urban abundance of public greenspaces and crowned by gems like Schmitz and Fauntleroy that have no sports.  
        The flora and fauna have the whole pie of more of parks properties in West Seattle than Lincoln with its minor amount of sports do. 

  • k October 22, 2023 (9:17 am)

    Illegal tree cutting 1700 block of alki ave sw right now. Monkey tree very large. Please help.

    • Moon October 22, 2023 (7:01 pm)

      Oh no!!! 

  • Keenan October 22, 2023 (10:58 am)

    Pickleball courts are loud and annoying.  Have you ever been to Whale Tail park by Alki elementary?  They have pickleball there.  I tried playing fetch with my dog in that field and all you hear is a constant BONK BONK BONK BONK.  Every day, without rest, it’s BONK BONK BONK on one site and screaming elementary kids on recess on the other side.  It’s impossible to hear yourself think.Lincoln Park is one of the ONLY PLACES in West Seattle where you can walk through the trees and be in nature in relative silence.  Let’s keep it that way  I don’t care if you call us ridiculous Nimbys, we live in a democracy and the people ultimately  get to decide what happens in this city.  A very large number of residents are passionately opposed to these courts and we will not be ignored!

    • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (11:37 am)

      A large number of residents are for the courts whether you believe it or not hence the parks decision  to refinish the old tennis court. There sure were plenty of birds growing up when we played tennis there under the lights and there sure will still be birds when we play pickle ball. 

    • not the argument you thought October 22, 2023 (5:17 pm)

      I guarantee you that birds are more bothered by your off-leash dog running around than they are the noise of pickle ball.  Oh, wait, you’ve dropped the pretend argument that it’ll bother the birds, and you’re just personally aggravated by the sounds of recreation.  Tell you what, leave the city and take your pick of places far away from other people.  Heaven forbid you are subjected to the sounds of recreation and GASP children!

    • Admiral Mom October 23, 2023 (7:30 am)

      You play fetch with your dog on a park with specific signs “no unleash dogs allowed”?!?!? You are the problem. Shame on you

  • Lou October 22, 2023 (11:04 am)

    Pickleball in Lincoln park is gonna disturb the birds….. hmmmm. I can think of a lot of activities in Lincoln park that might disturb the birds, but I don’t think the birds are going to mind much. I think it’s the PEOPLE who mind. Using the birds as a scapegoat is stupid. I don’t think ravens use their ears for scavenging as much as they use their eyes. They will be happy to have more people using the area so they can snag snacks. 

    • TM October 22, 2023 (1:46 pm)

      Lou, here’s a summary article of a recent study on noise and light impacts, funded by the NSF: Noise and light pollution affect breeding habits in birds

      • not the argument you thought October 22, 2023 (5:13 pm)

        “Noise pollution delayed nesting for birds whose songs are at a lower
        frequency and thus more difficult to hear through low-frequency human

        Hmm…  Haven’t people been complaining about how high frequency the noise from pickle ball is?  Maybe it bothers people more than it actually bothers birds, what a surprise!

  • Zach Thomas October 22, 2023 (2:13 pm)

    Y’all have too much time on your hands. Maybe you should take up a hobby to kill time and stay active….maybe pickball? Stop thinking your small groups opinion represents that of the thousands of residents in the area. Kudos to the City for keeping their plan to provide a great amenity for the greater community.

  • Denise October 22, 2023 (2:49 pm)

    Petition just exceeded 4,000 signatures.

    • Alki resident October 22, 2023 (3:27 pm)

      That’s great. It won’t change the decision already made by parks to simply resurface a once well loved tennis court. Hard to believe how many were coerced into signing a poorly written and misleading petition. 

    • SE Dick October 22, 2023 (3:42 pm)

      So beautifully said. Absolutely masterful.

    • Bring on the pickle! October 22, 2023 (5:38 pm)

      So let’s be conservative and say 100,000 people visit the park each year(I’m sure it’s more than this). You have 4,000 signatures against the pickle ball court. That means 96 percent of people that use the park either want the courts there or aren’t affected by them being there. Do you really believe that 4 percent of the people who use the park should be able to dictate what the park is used for? 

      • TM October 22, 2023 (6:36 pm)

        That means 96 percent of people that use the park either want the courts there or aren’t affected by them being there.”

        Wow, your logic and data is absolutely bombproof. Case closed! Serious comedy.

        Wacky assumptions and math aside, 4000 folks having found their way to and signed a petition (that may not capture their specific perspective, but is the only game in town for opposition consensus) is significant.

    • JustSarah October 22, 2023 (7:09 pm)

      Congratulations on your muddled and misleading petition has garnering 4000 “signatures”! I could probably do that as well if I used alarmist language, broad claims, and targeted tourists coming to see the troll. Oh, and plastered the flyers all over the quietest trails. Plus a ton of those are from random people in places well beyond Seattle who saw the link posted by their grandson or whatever. Your petition holds no water. 

  • Pickled Baller October 22, 2023 (4:14 pm)

    Where were all these “protestors/environmentalists” when the troll was being built?

  • David October 22, 2023 (10:01 pm)

    Parks should have held comment first- let discourse be heard. I remember those tennis courts and why they no longer exist – too hard to maintain with the forrest always wanting more space, tree roots popping up through the surface and constant need of cleaning and I’m not talking just a sweep. I’m all for more pickle ball  if it’s really needed. I’m not convinced it is? Where’s the data? Parks let’s engage in data based conversation, so as a community we don’t don’t belittle each other!

  • Octobermist October 23, 2023 (9:00 am)

    I think what I’m finding most entertaining today are the comments about the “quiet” space that is going to be overtaken by PB. It is steps from a baseball field and of the times I’ve ran by or ridden a mtn bike by, NO ONE was sitting in this area meditating or practicing downward dog. I ran around Green Lake the other day, they had a very vibrant, well-attended PB match going on on their tennis courts…I didn’t have my headphones in on that run and all protest-ire aside, I could NOT hear the PB court at all until I was right next to it and quickly faded into my background as I ran by. I can’t help but agree with most of the comments above about how all of a sudden wildlife preservation is a convenience when a subject people find to be annoying infringes upon them and then out of nowhere it is “Save the birds!”…the birds were there before we were here and they will be here long after we are gone, just like Elsa says…Let it go. 

  • SC October 23, 2023 (9:30 am)

    Open SwimmingSoccerBaseballSoftballPlaygroundsBird WatchingCross countryRacesSwim MeetsPicnicsWhale watchingBeachcombing HikingDog walkingProtestsKids campWater sportsZip linesSwing setsWadding poolsGatherings (with and without music)Dog training classesFishingPublic art installationsBike ridingPhotographyBarbequesPickleballWe must protect Lincoln Park’s natural state! <sarcasim>

  • Quiz October 23, 2023 (9:47 am)

    LOL. You can’t make this stuff up.

  • Parker October 23, 2023 (10:58 am)

    At a minimum, there should be a review of why the tennis courts fell out of use. Several questions should be investigated (and if they have been already, the findings should be made public in the WSB): Would the issues that contributed to the closure of the tennis courts also affect pickleball courts? Was the fact that players cannot park within sight of the courts a deterrent to their use? If keeping them clear of leaves and needles was what doomed the tennis courts, why would we expect anything else with a different sport in that location?

  • Sean October 23, 2023 (8:10 pm)

    Can we ALL go protest as to why the pickleball courts will be done BEFORE the playfield in the south end of the park that’s been closed for 6+ years?

  • Heather October 27, 2023 (11:30 am)

    Do we know who approved the plan to ruin Lincoln Park? – I would love to vote them out of their office, if I can.

Sorry, comment time is over.