WEST SEATTLE CRIME WATCH: Gunfire at 5-way investigated as ‘road rage’

| Crime | West Seattle news | West Seattle police

6:23 PM: No injuries this afternoon when someone in a car shot at someone in another car at or near the 5-way intersection just west of the low bridge. It’s taken a while to piece this together, but here’s what we have so far: The victim(s) called police and met them along Avalon; gunfire damage to their car was reported to include a flat tire. Then the suspect(s) called 911 and met up with officers in Riverside, near 17th/Marginal:

(WSB photo)

Meantime, officers went to the original scene at the Chelan/Marginal/Spokane/Delridge intersection and told dispatch they found three casings – from two different guns. We caught up with police at the Riverside scene, and they told us they’re investigating this as a case of “road rage” but they were still sorting it out and hadn’t arrested anyone yet.

7:46 PM: Just talked to SPD spokesperson Det. Valerie Carson. Here’s what she says police now have, after talking to people in both cars: This started on Highway 99 as a “merging issue” involving people in a Honda (car in the background of our photo above) and Subaru. As the two cars proceeded westward, they got close enough that some yelling ensued. Then after they both crossed the low bridge, they were stopped at the 5-way light, when two people in the Honda got out and came over to the Subaru, pounding on its windows, At one point, someone from the Honda allegedly punched someone from the Subaru; they claimed someone from the Subaru spat at them. The Subaru driver decided to drive away; both people from the Honda pulled guns and fired. They told police they did so in self-defense, feeling that the Subaru driver was going to run over them; the Subaru driver claimed they were already pulling away when the people from the Honda shot at them. Bullets hit a rear tire. No arrests as police continue to investigate; Det. Carson says they did confiscate the guns, and that both people in the Honda had valid concealed pistol licenses for them.

ADDED 11:49 AM: SPD Blotter has a post about this – same narrative as we added last night after talking with Det. Carson (spelling corrected), but with two photos added – first, the Subaru’s flat tire:

(SPD photo)

And the guns surrendered by the people in the Honda:

(SPD photo)

The post also notes that each car carried a woman and a man at the time of the incident.

Lamont August 24, 2021 (7:08 pm)

Lemme guess that the right lane for westbound marginal was backed up and one of the vehicles involved drove to the end of the left lane and cut the line. I won’t miss that route after the bridge gets fixed.

Trickycoolj August 24, 2021 (8:10 pm)

If they crossed the low bridge from 99 then the altercation started on East Marginal not West Marginal.
major_sigh August 24, 2021 (9:04 pm)

People do this only because there are fools who let them.
S.A. August 24, 2021 (9:28 pm)

Zipper merging is the most effective. It’s been studied time and time again. https://mynorthwest.com/2603318/zipper-merge-education-bill-washington-2021/
- CAM August 24, 2021 (11:00 pm)
  
  That isn’t zipper merging. Only people in Seattle seem to be under the impression it is. Zipper merging is in fact a good thing. What you are endorsing is not it.
  - Marianne August 25, 2021 (7:47 am)
    
    Thank you!
  - Jon August 25, 2021 (8:32 am)
    
    Correct. Zipper merging is when two lanes merge into one. Best practice for efficient traffic flow (“zipper merging”) is to utilize both lanes until the merge rather than merging early to be “polite”. At this 5-way intersection, the two westbound on W Marginal Way do not merge into one lane. The left lane continues via left turn onto Delridge. Utilizing that left lane up to the intersection and then cutting into the right lane to go straight onto Chelan Ave. / Spokane St. is NOT zipper merging.
  - S.A. August 25, 2021 (9:03 am)
    
    Zipper merging is making full use of both lanes until the point of forced merge. If one person drives to the end of the pinch-off lane and merges, that’s zipper merging… it’s just that no one else is doing it. Maybe because they’re afraid of encountering absurdly disproportionate road rage from people who think they’ve got the “right” to the lane they’re in and jealously guard against anyone else “taking” their space by… zipper merging.
    - Stuck on Avalon August 25, 2021 (9:30 am)
      
      Except what the person you’re replying to is talking about isn’t a merge. It’s inconsiderate people driving up a left turn only lane and cutting over. It’s the same thing with people cutting over to get onto the 1st Ave bridge. There is no forced merge, just jerks.
    - Lagartija Nick August 25, 2021 (9:45 am)
      
      Lanes intended for zipper merging are clearly designed and marked as such. The left lane there is clearly designed and marked for left turn only. This is 100% not a zipper merge scenario. And those who wait until the last minute to force their way into the right lane are entitled jerks who think traffic laws don’t apply to them.
    - Jay August 25, 2021 (9:48 am)
      
      The left lane is a left turn lane. Cutting in to the straight traffic lane from it is not a zipper merge.
    - Ron Swanson August 25, 2021 (10:23 am)
      
      As several people just explained to you, that isn’t a “forced merge” – it’s a lane that goes a different direction. Trying to cut in at the end isn’t being smarter than everyone else, it’s just being a jerk.
    - Seaviewer August 25, 2021 (10:34 am)
      
      Zipper merging only applies when one lane ends and merges with another. Like the two westbound lanes of Michigan as they cross under the First Ave. Bridge.
      
      Travelling in a lane going elsewhere that is not ending just to skip waiting in the slow moving lane that is going where you want to go is NOT zipper merging. It’s just cutting a line. And since the people doing this are MAKING the correct lane move slowly (by merging in constantly) they have no ethical basis to do what they are doing. That they also slow the lane down going to the other place is an additional issue.
      
      This is like trying to skip a long line at the grocery store by getting into a closed check stand line and then merging in. Get in line. Wait your turn. Don’t unnecessarily merge which slows the entire line down further.
      
      The places where you see the most often are the merges onto NB First Avenue Bridge from both access points.
      
      These selfish drivers make the slow lanes slow by trying to avoid it. They are exacerbating the problem they are trying to avoid.
      
      It doesn’t help that people don’t know how to drive in traffic. When a light turns from red to green there is no reason for people to wait to take their foot off the brake. Everyone can release their brake immediately and start moving the whole line at walking speed and then space out as they speed up. But that would require drivers to pay attention which is apparently too much to ask. We should be getting more cars through each green light. But people cutting in does nothing to help this out.
    - Detour August 25, 2021 (11:29 am)
      
      Some are able to access their destination by taking either the Delridge exit or staying in the right lane and taking the Avalon Wy exit. When the right lane is absurdly backed up I can opt to travel the left lane with the intention of taking the Delridge exit, however what people are failing to mention is the horrid driving/distracted driving that happens in the right lane traffic, nearly every time I’m in the left lane waiting to exit onto Delridge. Drivers in the R lane will literally sit leaving 3-4-5 car lengths ahead of them, fail to accelerate when the light turns green when traffic starts moving etc and when that happens I will move over to the right lane. I have not slowed traffic or cut anybody off in any way, It is mind bogglinh how drivers sitting in bumper to bumper, detour traffic waiting to get through that intersection slow traffic immensely by not actually driving. It’s often the people in front of you in that line of traffic that are slowing traffic down.
wscommuter August 25, 2021 (5:22 pm)

Not zippering. It amazes me that there are these people who would never be so brazen as to cut in line at a movie theater, but they’ll freely do so in the assumed anonymity of a car. Agree with commenter above – sadly, this kind of stupid violence was inevitable .
John S August 25, 2021 (9:44 pm)

I also hate that move, but this actually happened at the intersection coming from the low bridge. They were road raging at each other while exiting off Hwy 99 and crossing the bridge.

Eric August 24, 2021 (7:09 pm)

I knew this was going to happen

Sean August 24, 2021 (7:30 pm)

Me too. There’s a lot of people cutting at the front when heading west. People fake out being in the shorter left only lane then forcing their way in, to head straight towards Chelan Cafe. Same goes for Highlandpark Way when turning right to Marginal Way. Maybe this scenario isn’t what caused rage today but there is rage at these intersections.
After we discussed it a few weeks ago I filed a request on Seattle dot gov for police to enforce traffic violations at these 2 intersections. But I know it’s not likely due to staffing levels.
- alki_2008 August 25, 2021 (10:22 am)
  
  It could also help if the city put signs that explain the lanes further back. Plenty of people don’t know that the left lane is only for Delridge until they get past the ‘curve’, and by that point they would have to “cut” into the right lane. Considering how long the right lane line tends to be nowadays, there should be signage further back.
  - Derek August 26, 2021 (10:42 am)
    
    Many people fake not knowing too. STOP LETTING PEOPLE IN.

Flivver August 24, 2021 (7:20 pm)

Local station said this happened ON the low bridge??? Follow up will be interesting to hear. Did either one actually live in WS and what actually led up to the rage.

WSB August 24, 2021 (7:45 pm)

Well, they were wrong, not surprising on a day when two tv stations claimed (unrelated) things happened in West Seattle that actually happened elsewhere … but I digress. Nobody’s perfect, certainly not us either. At any rate, I just spoke with SPD’s PIO and am adding new details above. – TR

mark August 24, 2021 (7:45 pm)

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. I wish SDOT would be working with us not against us. Blocking one of the Eastbound lanes this morning on Roxbury with absolutely no work being done is one example. We asked for help down here on Beach Drive since it has become a freeway since the bridge was closed and they were unable to even deliver a please slow down sign.

major_sigh August 24, 2021 (9:07 pm)

Or maybe we could all start taking the bus!! They are up and running again. Oh and they get to take the low bridge. Beats getting caught up in a road rage incident.
- Anne August 24, 2021 (9:28 pm)
  
  No we shouldn’t ALL be taking the bus. With Delta variant surging the last place I want to be is on a bus.
- Mark August 24, 2021 (10:51 pm)
  
  Thanks Major. I ride my bike 4 out of 5 days. Today I needed to drive from work to another location that wasn’t practicle with a bus. But I agree it seems silly that the lower bridge is filled with empty busses.
Jort August 24, 2021 (9:19 pm)

Hilarious. People are shooting each other in furious anger about merging their cars on a road and somehow this is SDOT’s fault. Good lord.
- Xman August 25, 2021 (7:24 am)
  
  It’s not really hilarious.
- Sasquatch August 25, 2021 (8:22 am)
  
  SDOT Didn’t pull the trigger so you’re right about that. But that detour causes my blood pressure to rise and I only do it once a week or less. Coming back from vacation I was one of those jerks that cut into the right lane at the last minute after five hours of driving… Glad I didn’t get shot for that. One thing of note, coming back from surgery with my wife we used the low bridge six weeks ago and still haven’t received any warning nor fine in the mail. Are those cameras working?
- Geriatric Millenial August 26, 2021 (4:50 pm)
  
  Hostile city design has a lot to do with it. Look up how progressive cities like Amsterdam design their cities. Look up YouTube for “Safe Cycling Showdown – Good vs. Bad City Design – Plus 1 Minus 2” since linking to YouTube is apparently not allowed here.
  - WSB August 27, 2021 (12:03 am)
    
    What? Yes, YouTube links are allowed (assuming it’s not explicit content) – we have 900+ comments in the archives with YT links.
- Geriatric Millenial August 27, 2021 (1:47 pm)
  
  Traffic calming is the phrase you want to look up. SDOT can copy the whole city design from Amsterdam if they wanted to.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxRYrpbnuA

Cool guns man! August 24, 2021 (8:12 pm)

When you rely on a hammer to keep you safe, all of your problems will start to look like nails.

West Seattle Mad Sci Guy August 24, 2021 (10:18 pm)

I love this. Not necessarily because I agree with the sentiment (though, I very little/sort of do in this case, based on the very vague details). I mostly like it because it reminds me of where I first heard it (a movie called arrival. I recommend if you haven’t seen it).
MickeyAvalonWay August 24, 2021 (10:40 pm)

The people in the Subaru sure were wishing they had hammer today as they were being shot at
- Matt August 25, 2021 (7:47 am)
  
  Just what the situation called for: even more guns!
  - admiral resident August 25, 2021 (3:52 pm)
    
    check out the spd blotter, these two had matching pistols… it looks like you can get the pistols for 250 dollars… im sure driving very politely around in their honda civic. it sounds like both parties are at fault but especially these two shooters having matching junk pistols while driving around and escalating conflict? this is seattle what do you bet nothing will happen… it seems like you can empty a magazine next to a daycare and schoolbus full of nuns as long as you felt “threatened” in the emerald city
- S.A. August 25, 2021 (9:22 am)
  
  Oh yes, so there could be a full-on gun battle on the West Seattle streets. That would be perfect. Miraculously, the Subaru folks managed to solve the problem quite effectively by… driving away.
- Cool guns man! August 25, 2021 (12:54 pm)
  
  Yes, had the Subaru driver shot back at Honda driver, it would have be great for everyone, especially those not involved who just happened to be in the area! Even better if if they killed them, less traffic for all!! I am sure shooting a gun at someone who is acting road-ragey at you will make you feel great about yourself when you reflect on your well-lived life as well.

HarborIslandworker August 24, 2021 (8:17 pm)

How the heck does someone not get arrested for discharging there weapon in public….

CAM August 24, 2021 (10:57 pm)

The same way that the guy who attempted to “shoot out the tires” of his own vehicle as the person stealing it was driving away, to attempt to prevent them from stealing it, in the middle of the Junction in the middle of the day didn’t get arrested or cited.
- WSB August 24, 2021 (11:47 pm)
  
  Just a note, I don’t know if anyone was eventually cited/arrested in that case. I don’t have the # and can’t find it, so am not likely to be able to find out, but it’s one of those cases in which – like this one – a charging decision COULD be made later, and there’s no easy way to ever find out. (That inccdent was 2 months ago.)
- Geriatric Millenial August 26, 2021 (5:36 pm)
  
  Wow, people here do that? Whatever happened to call law enforcement?

StopCuttingDownTrees August 24, 2021 (8:19 pm)

We don’t know all the details and no one was arrested, but getting out to approach and pound on another vehicle is a STUPID move. Exiting your car to strike ones fists on a legally-stopped vehicle is assault and is absolutely guaranteed to needlessly escalate an already tense situation. I’m hoping that the events didn’t actually unfold as they were described here.

Jon Wright August 24, 2021 (8:20 pm)

Worst thing that happens to them is going to be the $75 fine for driving across the low bridge.

Jort August 24, 2021 (9:21 pm)

I’m sure they’ll both commit purjury on the bridge ticket, anyway, and claim “it wasn’t ME driving across the bridge in my car! I swear! I have no idea how this keeps happening over and over, either!”

Lamont August 24, 2021 (8:39 pm)

Two individuals that need to be banned from ever owning firearms again,
and someone failed to explain to them what responsibilities come with a
CCW permit. Hopefully they get more than a slap on the wrist (and yeah, what kind of background do these people have that they don’t get arrested?)

CAM August 24, 2021 (9:14 pm)

Well see when we make decisions about whether or not to arrest someone based on whether or not they’ve ever been arrested before that guarantees that only one group of people gets arrested and the other group of people gets an indefinite free pass. Maybe we just start making decisions about arrest based on behavior and not on how the officer feels about the person in front of them?
major_sigh August 24, 2021 (9:14 pm)

Agreed. Not to turn this into a gun control debate but if these are the kinds of people who own guns legally then we need to do a much better job.I know not all of the info is out yet but I am pulling for arrests here.
1994 August 24, 2021 (9:24 pm)

Guns become too easy to use for some people, even those with concealed pistol permits. I guess a concealed pistol permit doesn’t mean the owner has any special training on when to use their pistol? Driving is an earned privilege that comes with special training – called driver’s education. Driver’s earn their license, it is not a right. Pack your patience, and leave your gun at home, to maintain your driving privilege and keep the roads safe for all of us.
Rhonda August 24, 2021 (9:44 pm)

We should all let the SPD investigation play out before passing any sort of judgement. A pistol is no match for a moving 4000+ pound vehicle. Either they will discover that they fired in self defense and the Subaru driver was attempting vehicular assault or vise versa. But it’s always best to avoid ridiculous traffic confrontations in the first place unless one drives an armored vehicle.
- Witness August 24, 2021 (11:01 pm)
  
  Agreed.
- ProbablyYourNeighbor August 24, 2021 (11:25 pm)
  
  Self defense maybe seems like a simple concept, but in the context of firing a gun at another human being, what the law sees as valid self defense out in the world is an extremely narrow set of criteria, as it should be. Starting from the point of all of these people being in their respective cars, there is almost nothing the people in the Subaru could have done (and nothing described by the police or in the witness comments) that would even begin to qualify as justification for the Honda people to start shooting.
- Lamont August 25, 2021 (11:02 am)
  
  They exited their vehicle and got into a confrontation.
  
  If you CCW you need to be one of the chillest people in the world.
  
  You need to never be hopping out of your vehicle and confronting other people.
  
  No matter what the Subaru did in the moment, the individuals with the weapons never should have exited their vehicle. That may not be a legal distinction, but that tells me 100% enough to know that they should never be driving around armed.
  - This August 25, 2021 (6:30 pm)
    
    From what’s been described by some witnesses here, sounds like the Honda folks may have been the bigger escalators, both with approaching the Subaru and attacking physically, and then walking back to their car and getting firearms and shooting. Might be interpreting wrong, but maybe the Subaru driver hit the Honda person because they had threatened to get their gun or shoot them, and they may have used their car in a self defense? Not that they should have, but wondering if that’s what happened.
    - Fern August 25, 2021 (10:50 pm)
      
      I pictured the Subaru hitting the Honda after the driver was punched and trying to flee.

ProbablyYourNeighbor August 24, 2021 (8:43 pm)

Saw the Subaru on Avalon with a spare fitted, and then a news crew around W Marginal and 17th on my way out for a ride. Glad to have missed the actual event, and thankful as always for the fine WSB folks for keeping the community informed.

I wouldn’t expect the shooters/Honda occupants to provide anything other than a story that shows their actions as reasonable, but trying to claim self defense after they decided to get out of the car, pounded on the windows of the Subaru, and assaulted one of the occupants is some sickening mix of laughable and appalling. Hopefully there are meaningful consequences for all of those poor choices, and glad no one was seriously injured as a result of them.

MickeyAvalonWay August 24, 2021 (9:41 pm)

Completely agree. There was a cyclist across the intersection directly in the line of fire from the shots that were fired as the Subaru turned left through the intersection, lucky he wasn’t hit. I was hoping to find out here that they had been arrested. No consequences for someone firing rounds through a busy intersection at rush hour is very concerning.
- WSB August 24, 2021 (9:55 pm)
  
  Note that people not being arrested at the scene does NOT mean they won’t ever be charged. If police recommend the filing of charges, a prosecutor would then review. They were talking to witnesses – I heard a couple dispatch mentions of people calling in to say they saw it – and also looking for video (there was a mention of a Metro bus that might have recorded something).
  - T August 24, 2021 (10:23 pm)
    
    I was on the bus. Didn’t see how it started. Subaru driver intentionally ran into Honda driver and pinned him against his own car then sped off. Then Honda driver went back to his car to get the gun. I only heard two shots but that’s about the time the bus driver took off.
    - neighbor August 25, 2021 (8:43 am)
      
      So what you’re saying is that the Subaru was leaving before the shots were fired. That would make it NOT self defense.
  - MickeyAvalonWay August 24, 2021 (10:30 pm)
    
    That is a solid point. Hopefully the witness accounts will make the evidence clear. The metro bus was broadside right next to the Subaru during the encounter so maybe someone got footage. Wishing now that I had pulled out my phone to record..

North Delridge Home Owner August 24, 2021 (8:50 pm)

Is anyone here other than me wondering if either of these cars have the required access to utilize documentation, other than their concealed pistol licenses that seems to make the hold of said license feel they have the right to do anything, to be crossing over the low bridge at this time of day as indicated by this story (Then after they both crossed the low bridge). Maybe the concealed pistol license holders need to have that privilege reviewed. Claims of self defense when firing at a car that has pulled away from you, hitting the rear tire, sounds a little like gaslighting to me.

MickeyAvalonWay August 24, 2021 (9:32 pm)

Watched this happen in the westbound Marginal Way SW lane. Persons in Honda had no grounds for self defense as the subaru pulled away to avoid being shot. Woman from Honda vehicle fired from the rear before driver of the Subaru rammed Honda to get past. Both passengers from Honda were yelling and yanking at the doors of the Subaru telling them to get out by gunpoint.. hard to argue “self defense” in doing everything you can to antagonize someone. The fact that they had concealed carry permits is completely irrelevant and ridiculous that SPD even stated that fact and that even more so that they made no arrests.

West Seattle Mad Sci Guy August 24, 2021 (10:22 pm)

Please call the police and give a witness statement.
Witness August 24, 2021 (10:59 pm)

I’m not trying to invalidate your comment, but from my point of view it seemed as if the Subaru driver swerved right towards a man and the Honda. There were no shots fired until the Subaru swerved first, making the Honda react by pulling out their fire-arm.

Judy McCollum August 24, 2021 (9:53 pm)

“Started on 99…merging issue” means they were coming from downtown where you have to merge to the left. They took the WS exit (hmmmm) and hit the light together at the 5-way intersection after the lower bridge.

Witness August 24, 2021 (10:54 pm)

I was on that metro bus to the left of the incident. We saw the Honda driver in the window of the Subaru driver sticking his hands in, assuming it was to throw a punch. The Honda passenger was also behind the Subaru car. Then, the Honda driver backs away from the Subaru car heading back to their vehicle. The Subaru driver claiming that they were pulling away is completely false, we purposely saw them swerve towards a person and the Honda vehicle. We’re not sure if the person got hit it or not, but we saw the damage dealt on the Honda vehicle. After the impact is when the Honda passenger drew their fire-arm. I think some charges should be put at place for both parties. I do think it was self defense on the Honda party, but it doesn’t excuse them pulling their fire-arm out.

WS Resident August 24, 2021 (11:36 pm)

Witnessed this awful event. Escalated quickly from yelling to assault to car hit and run to shooting. The Subaru hit the Honda driver intentionally. There was enough space for the Subaru to exit. It was a retaliation after the Honda folks were assaulting them. Subaru pinned the drivers legs. I was shocked seeing this unfold and then scared to be in line of fire. It was horrific. Glad nobody was injured.

This August 25, 2021 (6:22 am)

The real issue here is people. People issues. The road, it’s conditions, traffic, cars, buses, guns… Did not force anyone to be violent.

But, would be nice if the lot could be figured out too. Especially eliminating guns. The stress of the world (caused by people) seems to have increased faster than people can figure out how to deal with.

anonyme August 25, 2021 (7:15 am)

I find it interesting that two random vehicles on the road would both contain individuals who were fully armed and ready to rumble. It also goes to show that having a proper permit for a firearm says absolutely nothing about the mental ability of the carrier to use it properly. People cannot control themselves; the only reasonable option is to control guns instead.

WSB August 25, 2021 (9:52 am)

There was no mention of any weapon(s) in the Subaru. What I wrote above is (according to police) “both people from the Honda pulled guns and fired.” Officers told dispatch the three casings they found at the intersection were from two different guns – 2 from one, 1 from another.

captkrash August 25, 2021 (7:35 am)

I know and appreciate the zip rules. I see people refusing to let people move into their lane even when those drivers are running out of pavement. I see cheaters who use turn-only lanes to drive ahead of a long line of exhausted drivers who are waiting in congested lanes for long lights to turn green. The cheaters block the turn-only lane and irritate drivers in the congested lane as they push their way into the busy lane. This is not zipping. It is rudeness. It passes me off. Here’s how I handle it. When zipping in from a disappearing lane, I do it at the end of my pavement. Most people let me in there; some don’t. I wait until someone does. If I am in the situation where someone is zipping illegally and forces his car into the 3′ crack between me and the driver ahead, I let them. Yes, they’re jerks. I don’t try to hit them. I don’t try to shoot them. I just wish them really bad karma (which they probably reap daily in their rude lives). To not let them break in line means I stop traffic behind them in the turn lane they’ve usurped. Everybody, please be polite, sacrifice some pride, and occasionally tolerate the intolerable. We’ll all be safer and happier for it. And, a lot of those jerks are hot-headed gun-toting dolts who have no qualms about using them. Letting those few people have their way costs you, what, 3-seconds, of your life? Someday these cheaters will get their come-uppance, rest assured. West Seattle folks, you’re good people. I love living among you!

Xman August 25, 2021 (11:01 am)

Thanks for being level headed. There’s high level of anger in the world right now.
Lamont August 25, 2021 (11:08 am)

> When zipping in from a disappearing lane…

There is no disappearing lane on westbound marginal way, it is a left turn only lane. If you’re in the left turn only lane you need to turn left, not cut into the right straight lane. (Although I posted that comment long before the information came in that the whole thing started on 99 and that was a wrong guess entirely)
Little One August 25, 2021 (11:40 am)

Kaptcrash, you are wise. I needed to read this after an annoying commute this morning. I hate to be one of the cars to let some jerk in, but ultimately, you’re right. There’s only so much we can do and if someone is making an illegal move and very aggressive about it, it requires swallowing some pride and moving on with the day.

As much as I’d like to blame traffic frustrations on the bridge being out, I do recall seeing cars fly (or creep so darn slowly) in the eastbound bus lane on the high bridge only to cut in left to SoDo/I-5 or to 99. A good reminder that this sort of thing isn’t temporary. Sigh.

Mike August 25, 2021 (8:12 am)

Just another day in Seattle.

shotinthefoot August 25, 2021 (8:20 am)

missing the important part here, people. where is the outrage they were on the low bridge? did they have a permit? the horror!

Joan August 25, 2021 (8:23 am)

Once again, people are driving around with guns in their cars. “Just in case”? No different from the wild west.

Sasquatch August 25, 2021 (8:34 am)

Hopefully police are checking license plates to see if they are stolen. Such blatant use of the low bridge indicates that they might have stolen plates to avoid fine.

Duffy August 25, 2021 (8:46 am)

I’ve read a lot of troubling stories on here lately but this one might take the cake. The fact that the people in the Honda felt it necessary to discharge their firearms in a crowded intersection because of some stupid road rage merging encounter is almost incomprehensible to me. Of course the people in the Subaru felt in danger; the idiots in the Honda get out of their car and start pounding on windows and doors because they didn’t appreciate the way the Subaru was driving? Am I taking crazy pills? This sounds like complete madness. Please for some damn sanity in this world bring charges against the Honda occupants. You cannot pull out a gun and start shooting at vehicles when there are busses, cyclists, pedestrians around. The fact the words “self defense” are even appearing in the narrative of this insane story is asinine.

WSeattleite30yrs August 25, 2021 (10:02 am)

You are 100% accurate Duffy – these people should be arrested and their concealed weapons permit revoked! there is NO WAY they felt in Danger – they were taking out uncontrolled anger and need to go to anger management training
alki_2008 August 25, 2021 (10:38 am)

Maybe you should read the accounts of people who were actually there, like “Witness” comments that were posted about 10 hrs before your comment. They clearly describe that it wasn’t just “not liking how someone drives”, the Subaru drove into and pinned the Honda driver.
- Duffy August 25, 2021 (11:13 am)
  
  Yes, I’ve read them. Trying to escape the Honda occupants assault on them and their car. The Honda occupants were the aggressors here and “self defense” will not fly. Keep up.
- Lamont August 25, 2021 (11:19 am)
  
  Why was the Honda driver out of their vehicle? Did they punch someone in the Subaru first?
  
  The law is going to have to figure out who to charge, but everyone is an a–hole here.
  
  It is entirely possible that both of them are deadly force aggressors and they both committed assault.
  
  Sounds like neither of them should be driving vehicles or owning guns.
- anonyme August 25, 2021 (11:35 am)
  
  I would have done the same based on their behavior. We also don’t know if the guns had been displayed but not yet discharged. If someone who had attacked me in my car and was going batsh!t crazy revealed a gun, I’d ram them for sure. We don’t know that happened, but as the Honda occupants began firing seconds later, it’s a reasonable assumption that the guns were at least visible. I’m sure more details will be revealed in the coming updates.
- neighbor August 25, 2021 (11:59 am)
  
  They also clearly indicate that the Subaru was leaving when the shots were fired. Even if the Subaru driver hit them, shooting at a car driving away is NOT self defense. Discharging a firearm in a public place because you’re angry – even if you had good reason to be angry- is a criminal act.

BILLY August 25, 2021 (9:17 am)

People with guns can’t wait to use them. And both of them had guns on them and both acted this way? Lucky nobody is dead. Their privileges should be revoked permanently. There must be consequences. And stopping your car in the middle of a road rage incident?? Dumb and dumber.

ohbillysmh August 26, 2021 (10:35 am)

@Billy “people with guns can’t wait to use them.”

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read in my entire life. And this isn’t hyperbole. I grew up in the country, shot my first gun at five, killed my first deer at 12, and joined the military at 17. Everyone I know professionally, personally, and acquaintances through hobbies actively hope to NOT use their gun, EVER. So to see crimes happen and say that people “can’t wait to use them” is simply asinine.

You have no idea what you are talking about and should consider reframing your position. Or at least getting educated to the actual statistics of gun ownership, usage, and associated crimes.

CPL holder August 25, 2021 (10:00 am)

If you have a CPL, you cannot be an aggressor in a situation where you fire your gun. Getting out of the car to confront someone while armed, then shooting at them is a no-no. Once the cops do their due diligence, the people with guns will almost certainly have their CPL taken away.

WS CPL holder August 25, 2021 (3:04 pm)

I concur. As a CPL holder, I would NEVER pull my weapon unless I was in immanent danger. A car driving away is not a threat, even if they were a threat 30 seconds earlier. From all accounts and from what I understand, the Honda was in front of the Subaru. So if the Subaru had in fact pinned the driver to his car, at that point they were justified in firing their weapons. But they shot the rear passenger tire, it means the Subaru had cleared their car and was leaving the scene. At that point self defense is no longer in play. Its akin to shooting a fleeing burglar in the back.That being said, its also tough to claim self defense when you start the altercation. You don’t get to attack someones vehicle and then get upset they retaliated. That is irresponsible and they need to lose their CPL for showing poor judgement.
1994 August 25, 2021 (9:24 pm)

I hope you are right! Very frightening to think of those 2 people with concealed pistol permits! The sooner their guns are taken away from them we are all a little bit safer. What happened to self- control? As another commenter said the gun toting folks need anger management therapy.

Dean Fuller August 25, 2021 (11:34 am)

You guys and your C.P.L. comments . . . . transporting a firearm in a vehicle does not require a C.P.L.

Nonsense August 25, 2021 (12:38 pm)

Sorry Mr. Fuller your comment is not quite accurate. WA RCW 9.41.050 (2)(a)”A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless
the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol
is on the licensee’s person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at
all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from
the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed
from view from outside the vehicle.”
- Rhonda August 25, 2021 (3:45 pm)
  
  Anyone can legally open-carry a loaded pistol exposed and on their person, WITHOUT a concealed pistol license, in a vehicle or otherwise. It’s illegal for an unlicensed person to keep a loaded pistol locked inside an unoccupied vehicle or concealed inside a vehicle. Unlicensed people must unload their pistols before locking them in their vehicles OR they must open-carry them while their vehicles are unoccupied.
  - ProbablyYourNeighbor August 25, 2021 (7:56 pm)
    
    Out of all of this, an odd point to belabor, but as someone kindly commented above- the RCW addressing this has extremely plain language saying that individuals are only allowed to have loaded pistols in vehicles if they have a valid CPL. Not something that open carry allows for.
    - WSB August 25, 2021 (8:42 pm)
      
      Lest anybody else engage in point and counterpoint, here’s the law (as quoted by “Nonsense” upthread):
      https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
      However, there are exceptions. We don’t know if any of these applied as no information has been released about the people involved
      https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060
    - Rhonda August 25, 2021 (10:57 pm)
      
      It’s VERY difficult for a law enforcement officer to ascertain whether one is or is not participating in any of the following activities. Therefore, driving with a loaded pistol without a concealed carry license to hike around Greenlake is perfectly legal.(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
  - Lamont August 25, 2021 (9:10 pm)
    
    If they were open carrying when they got out of their vehicle and assaulted the occupants of the other vehicle, that is equally problematic. Either way this goes for them it is highly irresponsible.
Lamont August 25, 2021 (12:40 pm)

They were outside of their vehicle with the weapons on their persons.

WSB August 25, 2021 (11:59 am)

A post is now on SPD Blotter; same narrative we published last night, but including two photos we have added above – the Subaru’s tire, and the guns. – TR

Brian August 25, 2021 (12:28 pm)

So they surrendered the guns but weren’t jailed for discharging a firearm… what are the odds they are SPD or SPD adjacent?

flimflam August 25, 2021 (12:56 pm)

Wheat her or not charges will be filed I find it astounding that this sort of dangerous incident yields zero arrests.

Steven Lorenza August 25, 2021 (1:26 pm)

These fools need to grow up. Not get out of their cars with guns (how brave of you all!) and start a fight.

StopCuttingDownTrees August 25, 2021 (5:08 pm)

It never ceases to amaze me that people will honk their horns and give obscene gestures to complete strangers in other vehicles for simply not signalling, accidental merges, etc. That could be a serial killer you just gave the middle finger to because he didn’t know his high beams were on. I’m a 6′ 2″ 250-pound weightlifter, heavily armed at all times, and twist opponents into pretzels for exercise at the MMA gym. But I would never flash faces or rude hand gestures at someone for traffic mishaps or, especially, get out of my car and confront them. Drivers and passengers should behave like they do inside grocery stores, banks, or book stores.

Bear August 25, 2021 (8:05 pm)

I hope all these witnesses have told the police what they saw rather than just putting it on this blog….

Fern August 25, 2021 (10:39 pm)

And why weren’t the shooters arrested for firing weapons in public??? They could’ve even arrested the other driver for spitting as assault. I cannot believe it’s legal for two people to shoot at a car in the street. Shame on the police for wimping out on their duty to protect the public. WTF?

bolo August 25, 2021 (10:53 pm)

This incident is deeply troubling. Crowded intersection, plus bus with riders, bicyclists, with bullets whizzing by.
But possibly at least one of the shooters may be an excellent marks(man?).
Because one would shoot out a tire of an escaping vehicle to make the vehicle stop soon, without further damage. I’m thinking surgical strike type of action. If that is what the shooter was aiming to do, they were successful. Not easy to achieve.
Although the Subaru damaged tire will end up being expen$ive. A friend had damaged a tire on her Subie to find out they all need to be replaced in order to keep the treadwear balanced for the AWD system to work properly. Like I said, expen$ive.

I learned long ago (running service calls with a Viet Nam Vet in a city far more violent than Seattle) to not annoy, aggravate, or upset another driver no matter what they do because you never know who has a deadly weapon and might be willing to use it. Those Vietnam Vets knew a lot about self preservation.

Jethro Marx August 26, 2021 (9:38 am)

I feel like at least one of us should point out how dumb it is to have crappy cutesy matching couple guns. And I am totally down with rescinding permits for trigger-happy dolts with poor taste.

Mangoees August 26, 2021 (9:50 am)

Weak minded people use guns when they can’t handle their problems. Enjoy prison!

WS Islander August 26, 2021 (12:46 pm)

I would feel much safer with all these hotheads in jail.I hope those who witnessed the event will contact the police.Btw, the dark humor here is that all the changes SDoT are do to ‘calm traffic’ is just making it worse.

Sorry, comment time is over.