29 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE BRIDGE CLOSURE: HPAC forming Detour Subcommittee"

• Raven May 19, 2020 (5:38 pm)

  I am told there is talk of a REDUCED water taxi trip cost for residents of west Seattle when we all start commuting back to work soon.  $5 each way is more than we should be expected to pay just because the city decided not to properly maintain the bridge infrastructure for its residents. That adds up to $50 a week and that just gets you to the ferry terminal, not to your office! For a couple that would be $100 per week! 

  Has anyone heard the finalized figures on what the reduced water taxi cost will be for west Seattle residents?

  • BBILL May 19, 2020 (6:34 pm)

    So many factors. First it’s King County that operates the Water Taxi, so you’re asking the County to reduce fares for what you describe as “city decided not to properly maintain the bridge infrastructure for its residents.” Second the Water Taxi to and from West Seattle is a premium service. Bus service is the lower cost option. Third taking transit reduces your vehicle operating expense, so the added cost is not the full $50. Forth transfers are free, so the $5 fare would cover the entire transit trip. Taking the bus cost $2.75 each way, $5.50 round trip. Now subtract the vehicle expense you’re avoiding, and your total transportation expense could go down. Depending on your starting and ending points, driving the detour will cost about $5 a day in extra vehicle operating cost.

  • heartless May 19, 2020 (6:53 pm)

    It’d be nice if it was cheaper.  But it’s still a helluva lot cheaper than the cost of owning a car, so there’s that.  

    • Guy May 20, 2020 (8:31 am)

      $50/week for one person or $100/wk for a couple is not “hell of a lot cheaper than owning a car”, you serious? For $400/month you can lease a nice car and still have around $200/month left for gas and insurance, and with a car you have the flexibility to go anywhere you want any time. So don’t make up claims please.

      • JTM May 20, 2020 (9:35 am)

        Sure, but it also costs $300+ just to park downtown (I know, I paid it pre-Covid), so you need to add that in to all of your other costs when you think about the costs of commuting. 

      • heartless May 20, 2020 (11:30 am)

        The numbers might have surprised you, but no, I’m not making up claims.
        A quick Google search:
        AAA reports that (in 2017) the average cost of ownership was $700 a month
        https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car

        Another source (which seems to take from a Department of Labor report) suggests an average $9,500 per year to own and operate a vehicle, which would be $790 a month.
        https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/08/cost-car-ownership.asp

        These figures don’t, as JTM points out, include the cost to park your vehicle downtown.

        So yeah, I’m serious.  $200 per month compared to $700+ per month is, indeed, A HELLUVA LOT CHEAPER.

      • KM May 20, 2020 (12:23 pm)

        AAA reports it’s about $713 a month in 2016 to own a car, so yeah, it is a hell of a lot cheaper on a per-person basis. Not to mention, the upfront costs of leasing a car (and sometimes additional fees upon the turn in) are left out of your equation, as well as parking–out in public or the space required to keep your car on your property. Leasing is also one of the more expensive ways to drive your “own” car.  https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/what-does-it-cost-to-own-and-operate-a-car

        • LK May 20, 2020 (4:26 pm)

          Important to calculate the cost of other transportation needs outside of work. For parents of children there are activities that happen outside of West Seattle, plus a lot of doctor visits not to mention the need to get to a hospital quickly (extreme cost for those without insurance who have to rely on ambulance). Also the hidden cost of time to figure out complex schedules around work, kids, appointments, extended family care, etc without a car/ability to use the bridge. 

        • KM May 20, 2020 (4:43 pm)

          I’m all for including hidden costs, I’d like to see a robust study (I’m sure there’s something out there), but we’re missing a huge cost in discussions thus far: the environment and cost to our healthcare system of a car-dependent culture. In other words, the cost of poor air quality, manufacturing implications, dangerous roadways, polluted waterways, less exercise, etc. When I didn’t own a car and had a couple emergencies, I used a neighbor or a taxi. We made a point to seek services closer to home, rather than having a dentist 10 miles away. This brings up another point, the affect that zoning policies have on our transportation wants/needs. Living in a city that has banned most of its land from having businesses we work or visit sure makes giving up a car a lot trickier.

  • tsurly May 20, 2020 (9:37 am)

    A few weeks of water taxi fare could buy a solid bicycle that will last for years with little spent on maintenance. I know, its insensitive for me to point this out. 

    • Chemist May 20, 2020 (10:41 am)

      You have to save up more if you want a motor-assisted bike that can get up the hills SDOT installs bike lanes on.  Even SDOT folks won’t pedal up Highland Park Way‘s hill.

      Even though Mr Curtin admitted during the meeting that he has yet to peddle his way completely up the sidewalk on Highland Park Way,  he did concede that it is “a great connection to the Duwamish Trail.

      • WSB May 20, 2020 (10:59 am)

        Please note that is a COMMENT excerpt, NOT part of the story. Here is the direct link to the comment in question:
        https://westseattleblog.com/2019/10/what-sdot-told-hpac-about-highland-park-area-safety-project-pending-funding-finalization/#comment-2228393

      • tsurly May 20, 2020 (11:11 am)

        “You have to save up more if you want a motor-assisted bike that can get up the hills SDOT installs bike lanes on. “

        Nonsense. Do I need to go down there and ride my 80 pound non-motorized cargo bike up that sidewalk and post a video on Youtube as a demonstration? Should I throw a kid on the back for good measure? 

        • Chemist May 20, 2020 (4:27 pm)

          If you can do it on video on one of the original pedal powered pronto bikes or an ofo/spin/lime pedal bike I will cheer.  A 21 speed cargo bike is going to be geared better than those were.

        • Tsurly May 20, 2020 (4:51 pm)

          Challenge accepted. I would welcome some help from my neighbors to help me find one of those POSs.

        • KM May 20, 2020 (4:33 pm)

          Why would T do a demo on a bike that no longer exists in our market? Seems like demoing this on a bike people actually, can access currently, and commute if what we’re looking for.  Nonetheless, I’m team video.

        • heartless May 20, 2020 (5:13 pm)

          I’ll bring beer and snacks!

        • Chemist May 20, 2020 (11:10 pm)

          As someone who once tried to pedal a Lime pedal bike up 48th from Lowman beach, good luck.  I ended up standing on the pedal once I lost momentum about 25% up.

• JB May 19, 2020 (6:08 pm)

  Think it interesting that tolls on the tunnel have not stopped or reduced during this time.  I work in Magnolia at a grocery store and have been paying tolls up to $2.50.  Sent requests to Lisa and her brilliant answer was it was a state highway, no control from city council.  Hope you have better luck with the water taxi.

  • Tom May 19, 2020 (7:48 pm)

    That “brilliant” answer is the right one. The county has nothing to do with the bridge, and paying for the tunnel is completely and 100% unrelated to the fact that the bridge is out. Do you ask Safeway for a discount because QFC was out of flour? Get real. 

  • AMD May 19, 2020 (8:38 pm)

    The county is in charge of the water taxi, not the city, so you’ll get a similar answer there.  I don’t really see a reason to reduce or eliminate tolls in the tunnel due to COVID.  Surface streets are practically empty downtown, making them a more viable alternative than they would be under normal circumstances.  You’re asking for a discount on a service that’s even less necessary right now because a bridge a few miles away is closed?  Surely once you say that out loud you can see why it’s not being seriously considered.

    • bill May 19, 2020 (10:18 pm)

      Such a pity the comments don’t include a review function – thumbs up, thumbs down, and especially ROFL.

• Christy C May 20, 2020 (8:01 am)

  I mean, it’s maybe not unreasonable to wonder if a discount might be possible because of (eventually) increased ridership. Not because we’re “owed” a discount in some way, but because we’re in the middle of a pandemic plus a transportation crisis. It should also be noted, though,  that $5 *is* a reduced price — for Orca card holders. We are going to need every route available to us unless West Seattleites continue working from home in massive numbers. I am an essential worker, and I must commute. I’m pulling for wfh options for those who can.I haven’t heard anyone address how we all get to work in phase 2 and 3 with drastically-reduced bus capacities. I think normal size busses are currently restricted to 12 people. When you read that the bridge could collapse, impacting the low bridge? Scary, scary times. We cannot pack the busses full. Not now, and not for some time. What do we do?I hope that ferries be expanded and more water taxis added. Another huge part of surviving this is an explosion of services and businesses (including medical, dental, eyecare, hospital, car dealerships, far more retail, more restaurants and nightlife, more of everything, really.) We could have a satellite City court. So many ideas for making us a little more independent and reducing the need for travel! Increasing employment opportunities in WSea is critical, really.I’m worried about cascading bridge failures due to increased traffic. Somebody change my mind.

• GUY May 20, 2020 (8:38 am)

  I bet all the people responding along the lines of “stop asking for discounts (at tunnel or water taxi)” never had to drive the bridge regularly to get to work themselves and so don’t feel the pain associated with figuring out what to do now. Some of us work on the east side. Commuting  to work  by car from here took 30min with the bridge open, and by bus would be closer to 1-1.5hr because you have to switch busses downtown. That’s not a solution that worked even when the bridge was fine.Why aren’t we talking about who the heck is responsible for this failure? Our money paid for this bridge, someone messed up its design or maintenance, and we’ll be expected to pay for the fix while no one is held accountable?

• Moose15 May 20, 2020 (11:55 am)

  If you own a car in Seattle and work in Seattle and don’t have a garage or can’t afford to pay for garaging you should seriously think of selling your car because the tea leaves are clear, Seattle doesn’t want cars. If you live in Seattle and work outside of Seattle it might be time to move because traffic is going to be horrendous when we open up. Not trying to make this a political discussion, just stating the facts.

• Don Brubeck May 20, 2020 (1:37 pm)

  Actual cost  of each one-way King County water taxi trip was $11.38 per person boarding and average fair collected was $4.37.   The Water Taxis are already subsidized by all of us, at $7 per person per trip, and that may not include the cost of the free Metro #773 and #775 shuttle buses.  For comparison, Metro bus cost is ~$5.00 per person boarding with ~ $1,25 of that recovered by fares.  The city streets and bridges are heavily taxpayer-subsidized, too, by property taxes, with no tolls or fares or parking fees required in West Seattle.  But for passenger transit options,  buses look a lot more cost effective than ferries, and are easier to get to. It would take many more water taxis running every few minutes to make a big dent in lost West Seattle Bridge capacity. In a good year, the Water Taxi has 375,000 one-way boardings all year. The West Seattle Bridge carries that many people in just a few days.https://kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/water-taxi/~/media/depts/transportation/water-taxi/kc-water-taxi-facts-2017.ashx  [but you have to do some math]https://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/transportation/metro/about/accountability-center/performance/financial/annual.aspx#transit-operating-cost-per-boarding

• Really May 20, 2020 (1:47 pm)

  With the bridge being down and likely not ready for use in the near future, now is a good time for us as a community to come together and consider a forgotten mode of transportation that could really work for us – the dirigible balloon! Think about it – we have the industry here locally (Boeing) to design and build a fleet of them. And there is no shortage of hot air being produced in Seattle, so I think we’d have all the fuel we need. Just my two cents on how we can creatively solve this problem

  • Ice May 21, 2020 (12:03 am)

    I’m still lobbying for a cannon and publicly subsidized parachutes. 

• Joe May 20, 2020 (4:48 pm)

  Two words: Zip line.

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