32 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE CRIME WATCH: 2 vandalism incidents"

• Liz June 6, 2019 (2:53 pm)

  our cars have been keyed on 61st SW too

  • Lexi June 6, 2019 (4:32 pm)

    I’m sorry to hear you’ve been impacted too. If you haven’t already I highly recommend filing a police report. 

• RJ June 6, 2019 (3:36 pm)

  My car was keyed last week, 63rd & Alki

  • AlkiNeighbor June 6, 2019 (9:16 pm)

    Were the cars that got keyed by Alki parked in the alley or on the street? I also live in that area and am wondering where my car is less likely to be damaged. Thanks. 

    • Liz June 7, 2019 (10:02 am)

      our cars are always parked on the street in front of our house..

• wsrez June 6, 2019 (5:01 pm)

  apparently west seattle computers had a rock thrown through their front door last night too

  • Tyler McKenzie June 6, 2019 (7:26 pm)

    That’s a good piece of feedback. Thank you for the update. We actually used West Seattle Computers for our desktop infrastructure install with great results. Too bad we share a common unfortunate circumstance, too.

• 63rd Ave SW resident June 6, 2019 (5:25 pm)

  WSB, you’re always great in staying in touch with local police. Any idea if more patrols will be stepped up? 

• MJ June 6, 2019 (6:16 pm)

  Having your stuff vandalized sucks!  Even when cops catch the perpetrators the criminal justice system fails us, catch and release.  Punishing the perpetrators in a manner to make think twice before committing further crimes is needed.  

  • heartless June 6, 2019 (7:40 pm)

    MJ:  I get REALLY tired of telling you this–it’s almost like you’re not listening?!–but you are wrong. 

    Here is some reading:https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspxSpecifically, I’d like to call attention to the 4th section:

    4. Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.

    Laws and policies designed to deter crime by focusing mainly on increasing the severity of punishment are ineffective partly because criminals know little about the sanctions for specific crimes.More severe punishments do not “chasten” individuals convicted of crimes, and prisons may exacerbate recidivism.See Understanding the Relationship Between Sentencing and Deterrence for additional discussion on prison as an ineffective deterrent.

    • flimflam June 6, 2019 (8:24 pm)

      ugh. really?

    • Mark Schletty June 6, 2019 (8:40 pm)

      Heartless— the National Institute of Justice article you refer to addresses the issue of lengthening current sentencing times. It suggests that longer prison terms don’t deter crime very much. But it also points out that short term incarceration is an effective deterrent when coupled with high likelihood of getting caught and sentenced. It also states that being incarcerated can be particularly effective with young repeat offenders when they can be identified. The problem we face is that the offenders know there is NO punishment, not that they might be faced with more severe punishment. They have no incentive to avoid criminal activity.

      • heartless June 6, 2019 (9:44 pm)

        Mark–yeah, I actually read the information I linked.  If you, in turn, read the thread I was responding to, you will note that I was explicitly addressing MJ’s argument about levels of punishment.

        “The problem we face is that the offenders know there is NO punishment”  Whether or not that is true it is orthogonal to the current argument–NOBODY was talking about no punishment.  MJ mentioned that the punishment for crimes such as these should be harsher–and I was pointing out that, actually, no, that REALLY would not have the desired effect.  Do you understand now?  

        ps
        When you–or anyone–writes that with a lack of punishment people “have no incentive to avoid criminal activity” it just makes me sad.  Do you really think that poorly of people?—actually, let me ask that a slightly different way–do you really think that poorly of yourself?  In a situation where you are guaranteed to receive no punishment, do you really turn into a monster?  

        • Mark Schletty June 6, 2019 (10:42 pm)

          Heartless— MJ was referring to the current “catch and release” phenomenon, which is no punishment. MJ, to my way of reading it, was calling for some punishment more than none, not severely punishing. Just enough to get the offender to think about it. And I didm’t say that without punishment people have no incentive to avoid criminal activity. I said offenders have no incentive. Most people are not offenders.

        • Eric1 June 6, 2019 (11:11 pm)

          Heartless.  It isn’t that people would turn into monsters given no punishment.  I have no incentive to turn in money I find but I always do.  The point is most of us have integrity and jobs which pay better than crime. Why would I take up a lower paying job (crime) that involves more work (I’d have to break into a lot of cars/homes/businesses then fence the to make my daily salary).  But to some people crime is their job.  If there is no punishment why would they look for a real job?  My guess is that even working at $15 an hour pays better than breaking into cars.  But working involves actually holding a schedule, showing up on time, actually doing a good job, etc… I assure you 99% of people have enough integrity to not steal even if there is no punishment.  Seattle is a perfect example…..

        • heartless June 7, 2019 (7:42 am)

          Mark: I think we just disagree about MJs initial point.  I read it as a cry to increase punishment more than a cry to have punishment at all–although I must admit most people would find it terribly aversive to be arrested–having the cops come to your home or work and take you away, yeah in a sense that’s punishment itself.
          “And I didm’t say that without punishment people have no incentive to avoid criminal activity. I said offenders have no incentive. Most people are not offenders.

          Fair enough, but this seems pretty tautological–I mean, you’re saying offenders have no incentive to avoid criminal activity, and you know this because they are offenders, but they are offenders because they have no incentive to not be offenders?  You have to get out of that loop somehow.

          Eric1: “The point is most of us have integrity and jobs which pay better than crime. Why would I take up a lower paying job (crime) that involves more work (I’d have to break into a lot of cars/homes/businesses then fence the to make my daily salary).”

          People make horrible economic decisions all of the time, and there are quite a few answers to the question you pose–but I’m not sure any of this is relevant to the current topic.  I mean, the crimes here are cars being keyed and a rock thrown at a business–these aren’t exactly money-making schemes…

          “But to some people crime is their job.  If there is no punishment why would they look for a real job?”

          Well, this just brings us back to square one.  That’s more or less what Mark wrote (“They have no incentive to avoid criminal activity.”).  And, indeed, it stands in contrast to your initial point about integrity and why you return money you’ve found.

          ps
          I appreciate all the thought people have put into this topic, and I enjoy reading all of the responses–I really do. Even (maybe especially) when we disagree I find these discussions can be fruitful. So thanks.

  • Peter June 7, 2019 (9:30 am)

    Hate to break it to you, but people have rights, even people you don’t like. Have you ever heard of the rule of law? Right to a trial? Proportionality? And, oh, I dunno, actually having to prove someone committed a crime? Without those things, we would live in a police state, and nobody would have rights.

• Tyler McKenzie June 6, 2019 (7:32 pm)

  We still have the rock. Fingerprints, anyone? We’ll have more cameras moving forward, too. 

• BJG June 6, 2019 (8:01 pm)

  Over here on Rutan Pl we had our second car prowl in less than 2 months. Thief took all the rest of our car’s emergency essentials plus my professional first aid kit, butane stove with butane cylinders and good sport shoes and wool blanket. Craziest thing was a big pack of water bottles that was falling apart as he was getting away. A real treasure trove for his camp I guess. Only thing left to take now is the car. Just waiting. Junction seems under siege. Desk officer who took my report said “Sometimes we catch a few of them.” Sigh.

  • Karen June 7, 2019 (8:31 am)

    BJG, I’m so disgusted that this happened to you again!  

    • BJG June 7, 2019 (5:24 pm)

      Thanks Karen. Sense of security gone. Gang gunfights on corner. Thefts. Random drunks threatening to shoot our neighbors. That’s just lately. Not our sweet neighborhood anymore. Been here too long. West Seattle Junction is scary. Time to move.

• diane de rooij June 6, 2019 (10:26 pm)

  I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I’ll bet that rock was propelled from one of those slingshots that goes around your wrist. Local governments in many places have tried to ban those things because they are as dangerous as guns. But what can we say. Doesn’t seem like our government responds to anything we really need these days

  • Fauntleroy Rez June 7, 2019 (10:15 am)

    But our government responded by requiring my 4’9 grandmother to use a booster seat when driving.  

• MJ June 6, 2019 (10:39 pm)

  Heartless – apparently you did not understand my post.  I stated the perpetrator need to be punished in a manner to make them think twice before committing another crime.  Are you saying perpetraters/criminals should not be held accountable?  I personally believe that this a part of the problem in Seattle with its failure to hold people accountable for their actions and to treat everyone equally.

  • heartless June 7, 2019 (10:01 am)

    I understood what you wrote here, and I notice what you regularly write.  You often make posts about how you wish punishments were more severe.

    You consistently focus on the concept of “restitution”; you have written about how you want people “locked up for good!”,  how you want the City to “crack down hard” on thieves, how people should be “put in prison and made to work behind bars”, how a “perpetrator deserves zero mercy”, and on and on and on.

    Regarding the Westcrest Park murder you wrote “The victim was 15 years old, say the average life expectancy is 75 years that is 60 years of life taken away.  The purp’s sentence does not equate to the crime and the life taken away!”

    A blinding focus on punishment is your raison d’etre in this forum.  For you to shift that into a current claim of simply wanting people to be held accountable for their actions is disingenuous–and I refuse to allow you to conflate rampant idolization of  punishment with simple accountability.

    My initial point, and the one I will continue to make (until the evidence shows otherwise), is that your ideas of punishment do not work.  They do not reduce crime.  They do not make financial sense.  They do not make for a better society.   

• Lola June 7, 2019 (10:15 am)

  Tyler McKenzie,It is funny that you say you still have the rock.  A few years back my son when he was 16 a guy chased him down in his car behind the junction in the old JC Penny’s parking lot.  In the lot he got out of his car and threw a piece of cement into the side window to get to him.  He pulled him out through the window.  Luckily another guy (bodybuilder) came over and helped my son.  By the time I got there the cops had left and my brother-in-law said here is the Rock or piece of cement that the guy threw at him.  I kept it in my garage untill they fianlly had a trial a few years later.  The prosecution used the Rock and I was called the Rock Witness even tho I was not at the scene when it took place. The guy still got off Scott Free. 

• John June 7, 2019 (10:15 am)

  Regardless of the various interpretations of what was written, I for one, do appreciate the level of discussion in these responses, that are so often absent from our posts.Thanks all for respectful disagreements.

• UberBeth June 7, 2019 (11:15 am)

  60th and Admiral, haven’t had vandalism damage. We park on our property off the alley, but no fence. We did have a car break-in about a month ago. It was accidentally unlocked and encounter the person rooting through the car at about 3:30am.

• Mj June 7, 2019 (11:49 am)

  Heartless – and what is your solution?  No punishment, no accountability?  

  • heartless June 7, 2019 (2:53 pm)

    Yeah, there’s the rub.

    Shocking, I know, but I cannot solve the problem of crime.

    I am no criminologist, or policy wonk, but I do feel that after all of this I should at least offer some suggestions, so here goes.

    First, we know what doesn’t work: jail time for smaller offenses, stricter sentencing, and capital punishment to name some.  All those things that don’t reduce crime actually cost a fair bit of money, both directly and indirectly.  So I’d suggest we stop doing all of those things.  

    With the money saved by removing ineffective policies I would push for work in these areas-

    1: more money for cops.  More cops hired, better salaries, and, just as importantly, better training.  Training both at the academy level but also continuing eduction and support.  Police visibility is a deterrent to crime.  And a competent and well-trained police presence makes communities safer.

    2: social welfare programs, from activity centers for kids to wet houses for drunks to programs designed to keep kids from dropping out of school.  All of which have been shown to reduce crime rates.

    3: higher alcohol taxes.    

    4: more money for urban maintenance and beautification.  Street sweepers, cleaner sidewalks, flower baskets, more green spaces, the whole nine yards.

    5: outlaw low tides.  As someone recently brought to my attention low tides really are a blight on society–AND they reveal extra rocks that delinquents could use for nefarious ends. (sorry, couldn’t resist–but please don’t think the other suggestions were also jokes!)

• slimantha_jane June 7, 2019 (1:31 pm)

  Hmm

• Shadowtripper June 7, 2019 (8:39 pm)

  How about this;   As they do in most other major cities… install cameras in major business areas and residential areas.   Residents 6 years ago had cameras removed off Alki because they feared a camera would look in their window.  I really doubt it.   Police can’t be everywhere, but a camera provides 24/7 information.  If that doesn’t work, install camera on your own property (including street view).  ID these criminals.  

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