56 Replies to "How hot is the West Seattle real-estate market? This hot"

• Diane July 6, 2016 (1:06 am)

  this is 7 houses from my corner in SE Admiral (Belvidere); and I would bet 100% that the “adding another story and remodeling” will not happen in reality; remember when the house at 37th & Hinds was completely demolished 2/26/15 while the city permit said “remodel”?  and 4 brand new ginormous million $$$ houses were built; same same same everywhere; they will demolish and build at least 2 HUGE maxed out to code houses for maximum profit

  • john July 8, 2016 (7:35 am)

    “4 brand new ginormous million $$$ houses were built”

    Fact check.

    I don’t know the definition of ‘ginormous’, but these new homes are actually less than 2,900 square feet.   That is certainly not a large house for one with four bedrooms.  The size of houses has been trending down in recent years. 

• WD fundie July 6, 2016 (7:45 am)

  Confused why people hem and haw about developer profit. Why do you go to work everyday? Why do you assume the risks and invest in the stock market?

• Bill Bob July 6, 2016 (7:46 am)

  I can’t stand this home price inflation. Who is pricing us out? Disgusting.

  • Peter July 6, 2016 (1:52 pm)

    “Who is pricing us out?”

    Supply and demand, exacerbated by Seattle’s ridiculously strict zoning and land use laws.

• Greystreet July 6, 2016 (8:01 am)

  I’m glad I bought when I did, I would not be able to afford to rent, but property taxes and such are quickly catching up to make own in a challenge tok

  • RC July 6, 2016 (10:24 am)

    Your property taxes will exceed your mortgage payment eventually. As has been stated before “Will Amazon allow us to stay?”.

• Sunuva July 6, 2016 (8:06 am)

  WD Fundie, I don’t hear much complaining about developer profits. Rather, I hear complaining about how they are skirting laws and regulations to cram huge and ugly box homes into our neighborhoods. I hear about how these steep price jumps are partly caused by investors and developers causing all-cash bidding wars on basic single-family homes causing the prices to be unaffordable for families in search of a home. I hear about developers disrespect to the environment, to the neighbors, to the trees. I hear about developers arrogantly doing as they please because this city let’s them. As a family trying to buy in this area, it is very disheartening to realize that it is not affordable and the game is rigged so the all-cash investor or developer wins.

• HTB July 6, 2016 (8:18 am)

  If you already own a house here this is great news. It’s like buying in San Francisco or Silicon Valley in the 70’s!

• Kim July 6, 2016 (8:20 am)

  There are too few homes to purchase.  It’s supply and demand, and there’s nothing for sale.  If something does come on, it’s a bidding war for sure.  

• Duskyviolet July 6, 2016 (8:30 am)

  There were too few homes to purchase but if you do a Redfin or any other real estate site search for West Seattle homes for sale there is a literal boom of everyone trying to get top dollar and I presume leave Seattle. 

• hey lady July 6, 2016 (9:24 am)

  Good fortune to ALL. I appreciate the diversity in the Arbor Heights/Westwood area. I hope it does not change!

• valvashon July 6, 2016 (9:32 am)

  Here’s the closed listing on the realtors “homes I sold” website:

  Belvidere listing

  Have
  a look while it’s still up.  The pictures are unbelievable.  Vacant
  home actions have been in the works since 2009 so I’m not sure what was
  going on with this house.  Somebody owned it during this time but wasn’t doing any maintenance or repairs.  My guess is that mom and dad eventually couldn’t take care of themselves anymore and there was some sort of family fight about that or the house.  As a result it was eventually sold for way less than it could have been and we will probably lose another Mid-Century Modern house and all of it’s probably interesting details.  Even if they do a to-the-studs remodel (which I don’t fault them for doing- I’ve seen the inside pictures) it will end up as a “new” house.

  • WSB July 6, 2016 (9:57 am)

    Just to quash too much speculation … the story is about the house, not the people who owned it, but published obituaries indicate the husband died three years ago, nine years after his wife died. The county-records page linked in the story does not list any formal transactions in recent years, before this one. – TR

    • valvashon July 6, 2016 (10:27 am)

      This is about the house- it has been under “VBM”- Vacant Building Monitoring since 2009.  The noted condition is ”
      Secure; no rear access; outdoor storage; veg. overgrowth; deterioration.”  Whatever an “inspection” entails it has consistently failed them quarterly since 2009.  If somebody was living there yet it was under “VBM” city inspectors or some other agency dropped the ball on this one.

• sc July 6, 2016 (9:49 am)

  Whenever I drive by a small house for sale I always say “bye, bye little house”!

• waikikigirl July 6, 2016 (9:59 am)

  Valvashon…. OMG what happened to that house for it to be in such terrible condition? Happy it sold and that it’ll be fixed up or replaced but geez it’s/was horrid!

• RC July 6, 2016 (10:27 am)

  West Seattle is getting ugly. I’ve appreciated my 50 years here and I’ll miss it.

• John July 6, 2016 (10:48 am)

  This sold for the two lots….simple as that.  They will build a second home in the back that will have alley access only.  Unfortunately it’s very common now.  Smart move by Tang.

• Alan July 6, 2016 (11:42 am)

  There doesn’t appear to be an alley and the house is in the center of the lot, so I don’t see how a second house could go on this lot without demolishing (no loss) the existing structure.

  • ktrapp July 6, 2016 (12:06 pm)

    According to the map posted in that listing, the plot split actually divides the property side-to-side, not front-and-back.  So you’re right.  If they do intend to put a house on each plot, they’ll definitely have to take out the existing structure.

    • Sunuva July 6, 2016 (12:59 pm)

      This house sounds doesn’t sound like a remodel candidate. It sounds like a tear down one and build two that each cost twice as much as the original one. From what I’ve seen in Arbor Heights, the developers will find a way to put a driveway to each house one way or another, alley or no alley.

      • WSB July 6, 2016 (1:16 pm)

        Again, we are in the realm of speculation here. The site plan that’s publicly filed proposes remodel/addition; we’ve got it on our watch list now just because it’s been made regionally famous. Two-lot sites’ boundaries can be changed if the owner applies for a lot boundary adjustment. There is absolutely nothing in the file for this house right now – and remember, it’s been 2 months since the purchase – aside from the “site plan” in May to which I refer. But as was also noted by Diane, plans do change, and there also are projects logged as “remodels” that technically are almost fully rebuilds but keep some aspect of the original structure – the foundation, for example – to qualify for the “remodel” label instead. We’ve been watching one, for example, at 7519 California SW, in Gatewood, because we drive by multiple times a day – a small house that was raised and now has been almost fully gutted. The permit says “additions and alterations” plus an “accessory dwelling unit” (mother-in-law apt.) going into lower-level space created by the raising .. TR

• Belvidere SW July 6, 2016 (11:42 am)

  I have lived a block away from the eyesore for 15 years. Went to high school with the girl that grew up in the house. 

  Many of us along Belvidere have complained to the city for many years about the continual lack of care to this home. Thus, there are many varmets that have overtaken this home as well as blackberry bushes to the roof. It has created a safety and fire hazard to all homeowners in the area. 

  I’m sure that when they actually take a good look at the interior studs and all; it will be a “remodel” per our lovely DPD by laws. 

• Tony S July 6, 2016 (1:00 pm)

  I grew up next door to this house (the one in picture next door to the north) in the late 1960’s through early 80’s. One main reason my parents sold and moved in 1983 was because of the “neighbor” that owned it. He was a mean, shifty character that kept everyone at wits end. He decided to re-roof the house himself in the late 1970’s and it was (sort of) covered by tarps ever since. He pretty much abandoned the place when his wife died years ago. Not a lot of happy stories came out of there over the past 40 years. It’s a shame, it was a nice place at one time with a great backyard to play in when the neighbors that owned it before he came along. Good riddance, finally.

• WSobserver July 6, 2016 (1:03 pm)

  Teardowns and Shadow-Flipping: Living Inside the Insane Vancouver Housing Bubble

  The benchmark price for homes in Metro Vancouver soared 32% in June!

  
  

  The benchmark price for detached houses skyrocketed 38.7% to C$1.56 million.

  
  

  http://wolfstreet.com/2016/07/05/teardowns-shadow-flipping-living-inside-vancouver-housing-bubble/

  • datamuse July 6, 2016 (3:37 pm)

    I get about one flipper a month offering to buy my place, sight unseen, as is. Not sure if they’re intending a teardown or not (the house is already about what the lot it’s on can hold) but they definitely seem to be looking for such opportunities in West Seattle. (My house isn’t in bad shape but it is rather poorly constructed–a relic of the housing boom in the late 90s.)

• Yeaaaaah! July 6, 2016 (1:26 pm)

  I’ll never be able to own in West Seattle unless my father leaves his house to me. While its paid off, the property taxes I know will, in a few years, be more than any mortgage I can afford. Bummer because it’s been my home since 73. Glad to see that delapitated home turn into something nice for the neighborhood!

• Kim July 6, 2016 (2:05 pm)

  Yeaaah: I say no way.  Someone leaves you a fully paid-off house, and you think the taxes will be more than any mortgage?!?  Even if they grew to 10k a year, that’s less than 1k a month–which sounds a whole lot less than the mortgages of many who’ve purchased in the last ten years.

  • Meyer July 6, 2016 (7:00 pm)

    Yes I am quite confused by people who say their property taxes will exceed any mortgage. The math simply doesn’t add up unless the numbers for the mortgage you are using are from 40+ years ago and you aren’t adjusting for inflation.

    If anyone has property tax that is higher than their mortgage I would consider them lucky. They must have got their home back when houses were much more affordable and their home has appreciated so much in value. They are literally sitting on a cash cow.

    I know for me, that unless home values increase 900% in less than 30 years, or taxes go up by the same amount, I will never have a mortgage that is less than my property tax.

• Les July 6, 2016 (2:14 pm)

   Hey Sound Transit houses in Seattle cost more than $400,000  now days.

• Community Member July 6, 2016 (2:15 pm)

   I wonder if this lot (or two lots)  has the potential to be an incredible view property, once it’s built up to 35feet, with a rooftop deck to see everything from Mt. Baker to Mt. Rainier. If that’s the case, then the sale price really isn’t surprising.  

• Azimuth July 6, 2016 (3:50 pm)

  The King County grade of “7” Average and Condition of “Average” is amusing! Are these 2,500 sf lots exempt from the stated SF 5000 zoning? Not sure what takes precedence here… Looking at the assessor map that whole area is carved up into 25′ wide lots.

• Diane July 6, 2016 (3:59 pm)

  yep; all you have to do is drive by this house, and look at the REALLY tall newish mod-house just a couple doors south (it now has a for-sale sign); that is how high code will allow and for sure there will be views; the base-line for homes on that side of the street is already about 10 ft above the sidewalk, same as the four million $$$ homes built at 37th & Hinds

• Tony S July 6, 2016 (7:02 pm)

  You’re right Diane, it’s a terrific view property. Across the east side of the hill there’s a boom of properties taking advantage of the view potential. It happened in the late 80’s to mid-90’s and it starting back up again. You COULD say it’s righting the mistake that the original developers made.

  Keep in mind, the area is filled with 1920’s homes, then a pause followed by late 1940’s to early 50’s. I’m sure, if the homeowners in the area had the inter-webs back in 1949, would be pissing and moaning about all the “unsuitable” housing being built in their area. Now they look quaint and “belong”.  It’s the nature of being in a living, breathing city.

• TM July 6, 2016 (7:05 pm)

  This story makes me wonder, what’s the latest on the construction in Gatewood on 42nd just off of Thistle? The smaller house that was torn down, split lot, including the one structure permitted for a garage but then built up 3 stories above the garage. Seems to still be in progress but has been an eyesore and unkempt for a year now. Did the developer/owner push through some kind of deal?

• wb July 6, 2016 (7:40 pm)

  Can’t wait for the crash.  It cracks me up when people say “I own this home.”  9/10 times the bank owns it.

• wsn00b July 6, 2016 (7:43 pm)

  I’m praying (even though I know that’s pretty meaningless) that somebody buys the house, in a similar condition, near where I live and builds a million dollar-plus home. It’d be such an improvement to the neighborhood. 

• Mike July 7, 2016 (8:58 am)

  People that think the housing market will crash like it did a few years ago are the same fools that still rent.  Yes, ypu might rent from a bank if you have a mortgage, but at least you recoup your rent when you sell and most of the time profit.  You never make money renting.

  • newnative July 7, 2016 (9:09 am)

    No need for name calling.  There are those of us who can’t afford down payments and may not be able to commit a few years to  buying a house.  I won’t get that rent payment back, but I’m not putting so much capital in one place either.  

    • Mike July 10, 2016 (10:39 am)

      renting puts no capital in at all, it’s just handing money to your landlord and / or company that maintains the building.  Totally true that not everyone can put in cash for a downpayment, fully understand that.  However, the people that keep saying there’s going to be a bubble like last time seem to not grasp that last time there was way more inventory, banks were handing out loans without downpayments (can’t do that now) and now you compete against developers, people moving from more expensive areas and overseas investors putting in full cash offers (don’t need a bank when you can plop down $1m without batting an eye).

  • Sunuva July 7, 2016 (3:18 pm)

    Market bubbles have happened as long as there have been markets. Just because the Real Estate bubble popped rather recently doesn’t mean it can’t do so again. After the most recent crash, some weak legislation was passed and many banks veered very conservative in their loan approvals for a bit. However, there is so much money to be made here in this frothy market and I would bet there is very risky speculation, over-extension of credit, over-extension of wages, risky loans being made, hasty decisions, etc that make for an unsustainable market with potential high volatility in the future.

    • Mike July 10, 2016 (10:44 am)

      When the tech industry here starts laying off people and construction stops, that’s the bubble.

• Diane July 7, 2016 (1:26 pm)

  “same fools that still rent”; offensive, rude, not accurate; violation of wsblog rules re name-calling not allowed here

  • Mike July 10, 2016 (10:41 am)

    Sorry you feel offended.  I’m offended you are trying to take away my 1st Amendment rights.

    • Steen July 13, 2016 (1:33 pm)

      You think you have First Amendment Rights on a *privately* held blog’s *comment* section? I would chuckle at you for making such a silly declaration but I’m concerned you might be older and losing cognitive abilities/ or ill. As far as the market, the only foolish people are the  greedy and delusional who’ve somehow managed to delude themselves into believing that once again the Seattle housing market is immune or insulated from the real world, as if the rules dont apply.  We’re seeing some of the same ridiculous behavior that we saw before the crash in 08-09, and in some ways we’ve surpassed that correction.  Houses consistently selling in 24 hours, all cash, 10-15% above asking  is not sustainable.  Whether that haircut comes from a local regional correction or (more likely) from a worldwide slowdown, one is coming. Book it. You “rah rah “all is good types, who spout this enthusiastic ignorance are a huge distraction, drowning out the  out the prudent folks people need to hear. 

• Skoo-B July 7, 2016 (3:38 pm)

  Bruce was cool dude. He claimed to have started selling random stuff at the Midway swap meet and opening flee markets when he came up from CA. He started buying Real Estate in the 70’s or so and this house, yes, his wife died in there and he spent many days and nights taking care of her before she died. It was her choice to live out the rest of her days at that house. So, when she died, he quote, “Locked the door and walked away.”  I remember trying to buy this house from Bruce before he died and Bruce replies “nobody sells $hi* on Belvidere” and he is right… The north admiral is THEE most prestigious area in allll of West Seattle. I grew up in WS and i’m 3rd generation.  My opinion of the investor on this…Tang is in a race to sell before the 10yr cycle or market crashes.  So they better build it fast and jam a high paid tech company employee in there. -West Seattle forever and ever!  

• Gladys Kravitz July 7, 2016 (6:27 pm)

  Another house on Henderson and 12th comes up as being owned by “Bruce” and his late wife (on the permit website) and by the “Maccollum Estate” on the King County Parcel Viewer website.  This house seems to have survived with only a “vegetation overgrowth” complaint (x2) made in 2004 and resolved in 2006.  They seem to have had three daughters, two of who survive; one of those may also be the name on the Henderson house.  This house has also had new wiring and a new furnace this year, seemingly installed about the same time the Belvidere house sold.

  The Belvidere house is listed on the Parcel Viewer site as still owned by “Bruce” and his late wife; perhaps the “estate” opted not to hold this house so as to avoid any liability for the toxicity of it.

  In the long run everybody’s property values will go up once this house gets pulled down or remodeled, and the blue tarp on the roof (which you can see from Google Maps!) will be gone.

• tk July 7, 2016 (9:42 pm)

   WSB- In this block, almost all of the houses are sitting on 2 x 25 ft. lots (5,000 sq. ft). This does not mean that the house can be torn down & 2 skinny houses take it’s place- the current code does not allow that because  the existing building covers both lots. Besides, even if it was always 2 empty lots, the code has changed and the new minimum lot size for new construction is now 3,200 sq. ft. (without applying for a variance, like on 39th Ave SW currently). They could build a backyard cottage or MIL addition (like the house for sale a bit to the south), but they cannot be sold/built on as 2 separate lots.

  Finally, there are many loopholes & exemptions to the code that the developers are experts at, such as lot boundary adjustments to split the lots, but these only work if it is one of the larger lots on a block (ie 8,000 sq. ft) which this one is not. I think the value here is if they build to the maximum 30 ft (with the flat roofed “blockhead” houses) they will have an incredible roof deck view!

  • AMD July 7, 2016 (10:07 pm)

    When codes change, you can still be grandfathered into whatever was approved under the old codes.  Time will tell how the developer is allowed to use the property(ties), but I wouldn’t count on him being automatically forced into 2016 rules.

    Sad story about the former occupants of the house, but it sounds like whatever is done with the property will alleviate a neighborhood concern in some fashion.

• Superoptimistic July 7, 2016 (11:19 pm)

  The only way to build 2 houses on this parcel would be if the current house was wholly built on 1 lot and not using the 2nd lot to qualify setbacks. (5 ft or more from dividing lot line.) in this case, lot 2 would be grandfathered as a buildable lot persuant to the code minimum of 2500 sf  when these properties were plated about 1910. In the mid 1950’s, the minimum was increased to 5000 sf.

• tk July 7, 2016 (11:43 pm)

  OK, Superoptimistic, but the fact is that the current house is built fully on both lots (the site plan shows only 8 to 9 ft. on the side yards). So in this case, there is no “empty” grandfathered-in 2,500 sq. ft. lot, so how could it qualify as a (2nd) buildable lot?

• Superoptimistic July 8, 2016 (2:54 am)

  I’m sorry, I meant- in the hypothetical case I was describing that WOULD allow both lots of the parcel to be separatly developed. 

  Lot 2 would ONLY be grandfathered as a separate building lot under the old code  2500 sf minimums, IF- it had not been previously used or built upon,  OR- had not been used as part of the setback for the adjacent structure. 

  in the old days, people would purchase multiple  2500 sf lots (usually 25’x100′) and combine into a single parcel, and build a house somewhere on the parcel. 

   The subject house was built accross both lots of the parcel, therefore- neither lot qualifies to be grandfathered under the old code minimums. 

• tk July 8, 2016 (9:07 am)

  Thanks for the confirmation, Superoptimistic. My comments were addressing the original article from WSB, hopefully to clarify that the sales price was not in part due to being 2 lots- From WSB: ” One note of interest – county information shows the house is on 5,000 square feet platted as two lots, which could have been part of the perceived value.” (but- not the case in the Belvidere situation).

  Also, the comment “Two-lot sites’ boundaries can be changed if the owner applies for a lot boundary adjustment” does not really apply in this case either, as lot boundary adjustments (to create 2 separate buildable lots) only work if the lot is much larger than the average lot size on the specific block (due to the 75/80 rule).

   Once again, I think the high sales price was due to the specific neighborhood with the potential for a great view because of the hillside. 

• Superoptimistic July 8, 2016 (9:46 am)

  That’s true- it’s a great spot, and Belvediere is a very desirable address- but, the real story appears to be lost on everyone.  The house didn’t sell super high, it was priced super low- far below market value-to feed a bidding war sales angle.  

  I had seen this home priced at $200, which is unheard of in this area, and looked into it. The listing stated that all offers would be accepted about a week after it was listed. The strategy (IMO) was to get lots of eyes on this place, give them time to ruminate over the possibilities, and let the feeding frenzy begin. I predicted the house would go $400+, and my realtor buddy thought $450.  

  So the house technically sold for twice the “asking” price, which- even for a tear down- was half the market value. The property sold for normal market value. 

• john July 10, 2016 (11:38 am)

  TK and SUPEROPTIMISTIC,

  Thanks for displaying such an intelligent, respectful and most of all informed discussion of this property which  the Seattle Times’ provocative piece chose to sensationalize.  

  AMD’s dismissive retort is factually wrong in this case.

  There are indeed some grandfather clauses, but most remaining are for the relief of owners of existing homes.  

Sorry, comment time is over.