FOLLOWUP: 30 mph still on the way for Delridge, Fauntleroy, Harbor, Olson/Roxbury

| Safety | Transportation | West Seattle news

Four West Seattle roads are still in line for a five-mph speed-limit reduction. That’s what we’ve learned since a reader calling himself “A Dad on Dangerous Delridge” e-mailed us Thursday to wonder what happened to SDOT‘s plan to reduce the speed limit on 5 West Seattle arterials by year’s end. We wrote about it in mid-February, when SDOT released details of its Vision Zero plan. “Dad” CC’d various city officials, including Councilmember Tom Rasmussen, who asked SDOT to respond, even before we started inquiring. SDOT’s Jim Curtin responded: “We will be reducing the speed limit from 35 mph to 30 mph (on Delridge Way) north of SW Orchard Street in December.” We then asked about the other roads on the list. Curtin’s reply: “35th was reduced to 30 between Roxbury and Holly in September. … Fauntleroy, Delridge, and Harbor will be reduced to 30 before the end of 2015. We’re designing additional countermeasures for the Olson Pl SW/Roxbury reduction to 30 mph. This will include radar speed signs for both Roxbury and Olson Place along with flashing beacons to add additional emphasis to our curve-warning signs (where we’ve had some trouble over the years as you know). Still aiming to implement in 2015.”

Ray November 6, 2015 (1:25 pm)

“Move Seattle”?

The irony of our transportation departments, where everything they do does anything but improve traffic flow.

catsup November 6, 2015 (1:53 pm)

OFM

Jon Wright November 6, 2015 (1:54 pm)

Ray, I think there is a misunderstanding. They are the Department Of Transportation, not the “Department Of Catering To Car Drivers.” They have also, thankfully, adopted safety as a core value. Their job (and a difficult one because of all the armchair transportation planners that critique everything SDOT does) is to make sure the city safely accommodates all forms of transportation as best as possible, not just people driving cars. I understand sometimes car drivers feel that SDOT is working against them, but sometimes that happens when transit riders, cyclists, and walkers are given a fair shake.

wsn00b November 6, 2015 (2:08 pm)

People will still do 40-45 in a 30mph. Stop the expensive and slow self-flagellation and enforce speed limits with cops and/or speed cameras with minimum $500 speeding tickets. Then fix the broken roads with that money.

Chad November 6, 2015 (2:18 pm)

I doubt SDOT will ever implement something that makes everyone happy, but I think it’s important they try to accommodate as many forms of transportation as possible. Seattle is going to continue to grow and I don’t feel the answer is adding infrastructure for only cars. The city needs to invest in multiple modes of transportation and implement those with safety in mind. Unfortunately, some of those changes may not always be what drivers want. I’m saying this as a driver, a pedestrian, a cyclist and an occasional transit user. I think Prop 1 shows that many people in this city are in favor of this approach.

Oakley34 November 6, 2015 (2:21 pm)

Well said Jon. And yes more enforcement please. Signs can only do so much.

dsa November 6, 2015 (2:23 pm)

SDOT is working against car drivers, and that is a fact. Show me some improvements that have relieved congestion in the last 12 months. It’s been the opposite.

Jeff November 6, 2015 (2:25 pm)

Fine Jon, well spoken. But explain why so much of the “fair shake” you mention is PAID FOR by property owners and CAR TAB FEES. Surely you aren’t going to deny that bicyclists and bus-riders are getting subsidized, while car drivers are paying MORE to get LESS.

WSB November 6, 2015 (2:43 pm)

As we’ve gone through here and elsewhere many times: Bicycle owners and bus riders actually pay more than their fair share. Most of them own cars too. And what car owners contribute does not begin to cover the cost of the damage heavier vehicles do the road. Somebody please re-find the links = I’m in a courtroom hallway and have to move on.

Mok November 6, 2015 (2:32 pm)

Why is 35mph an unsafe speed? Good lord, if you’re scared or don’t know how to drive safely at 35mph (and I get it, I was learning how to drive once too), go to another street. We have, what, 3 roads in WS with a 35mph speed limit? Can’t we leave at least one of them so that it doesn’t take 30 minutes to get from one side of WS to the other?

Mark32 November 6, 2015 (2:56 pm)

dsa, I think you meant to say 12 YEARS.

Fc November 6, 2015 (3:01 pm)

There should be a fair and equitable transportation system for Seattle- one where everything is equitable where if a group wants their use they need to pay for it. Autos pay more transportation cost so should be better accommodated, not pushed out of the city!

Oakley34 November 6, 2015 (3:29 pm)

Straw man Mok? The rhetorical argument of choice for those with passion but no sense…

Bubbasaurus November 6, 2015 (3:36 pm)

Is it really that everyone is driving so much faster on the same streets than 20 years ago that we need to drop the speed limits on all arterials in Seattle? I seriously doubt it. I hate driving around Jefferson Square now because I never know when someone will dart out from behind a car to cross the street in the middle of the block. And of course, when a pedestrian is hit by a car, it’s going to the fault of the car driver.

Jon Wright November 6, 2015 (3:57 pm)

Can we just create an FAQ and whenever a “war on cars” screed gets posted, just link to the FAQ? ;)
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But you seriously think autos pay more transportation cost? What is the opportunity cost for all the property allocated to roads for autos? What is the externalized cost of all the air and noise pollution autos create? What is the cost of damage to property and life and limb that cars cause? If one wants to dig deeper, what are the impacts to global ecology and climate attributed to fossil fuel use by autos? No, I don’t think your car tabs cover all that. I bet if you really factored all the impacts of autos into the equation, you would find autos are the most subsidized form of transportation.
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As far as better accommodating cars, how? Pave over the entire city? Double-deck all the roads? Seattle is growing and there is not room for any more cars! Our only hope for maintaining mobility is encouraging other forms of transportation. If slowing down the speed limit makes people feel safe enough to cross the street to get to the bus stop and ride transit, that’s a big net win!
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There is a great picture that shows just how inefficient autos are for moving people and how big their footprint really is. Click here and check it out!
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My family owns 3 cars. We drive every day. I am not anti-car! But we also walk and take transit. I am grateful that SDOT is working to ensure we do have options to driving. Thanks for reading!

Chad November 6, 2015 (4:08 pm)

“There should be a fair and equitable transportation system for Seattle- one where everything is equitable where if a group wants their use they need to pay for it. Autos pay more transportation cost so should be better accommodated”

Autos don’t pay more taxes, it’s the tax payers paying the taxes and in this case, with the latest levy, it’s based on property taxes.

Jon Wright November 6, 2015 (4:35 pm)

The purpose of reducing speed limits is not a reflection of people’s driving ability. It is about improving safety by giving drivers more reaction time and also making crashes (especially when a pedestrian or cyclist is involved) more survivable.

Admiral parent November 6, 2015 (4:43 pm)

So what happened to the rest of the 35th arterial that leads into the neighborhood on 35th, manning, 37th and Hanford arterial section not count? So when the street gets more compressed the speed limit is allowed to be faster. Do they not realize that we’re tired of our kids almost getting run over. Do they not pay attention to the insurance reports for all of our side mirrors they get hit. So when the street gets more compressed the speed limit is allowed to be faster. Section I mentioned above is the narrowest of all the existing arterials or collateral arterials as they call them yet it still maintains the fastest speed limit and has the least with for cars to oppose each other

CMP November 6, 2015 (5:12 pm)

I’m too lazy to read through any rationale on this so I apologize if it’s been addressed already, but why on earth did SDOT not make 35th Ave SW 30 mph the whole way through from Avalon to Roxbury? The stretch that is still four lanes should be 30 mph, not 35 mph. I know people complain about driving slower but with narrow lanes like that, homes all around and articulated buses using that road, I’m all for 30 mph. SDOT generally defies logic to me though so I shouldn’t be surprised by it at all.

Jarv November 6, 2015 (5:20 pm)

n00b is correct.

But it no matters actuals, 20, 30, 65 mph, I don’t give 2 shi…akes the speed is set at, just set it and effin do you job SPD! Pole-lease, it’s in you name for ducks sake. 3 over, anything more and you get a ticket…no need to make the fine crazy high, just make the fine real and without leeway.

Tom November 6, 2015 (5:33 pm)

“I hate driving around Jefferson Square now because I never know when someone will dart out from behind a car to cross the street in the middle of the block. And of course, when a pedestrian is hit by a car, it’s going to the fault of the car driver.”

So you think it’s fine to hit people with your car? Nice. maybe move away. Far. Kidding aside, I dart out in front of cars that are clearly speeding on purpose. I wait until they are real close and have to literally slam on the brakes. Oh they get so mad.

I’m a 18 year veteran stuntman with 47 major movie credits to my name. I’ve been hit by more cars than I remember. Regular sedan, I can jump over at the last minute, clip the roof at the worst. but they dont know that.

Oh, and my brother is an ambulance chaser, on speed dial.

M November 6, 2015 (5:44 pm)

I just hope that doesn’t mean people that use to drive 30 in a 35 zone now drive 25 in a 30 zone.

Eric1 November 6, 2015 (5:46 pm)

Actually, taxes like Move Seattle are property taxes and everybody pays. The average guy will pay $250 or so and that is about what one of my cars cost to license. If I didn’t have a car, I wouldn’t use roads so I guess it would be a wash. .
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I don’t get why people are in a rush to get somewhere. Job? LOL, Family? Maybe, But just leave 10 minutes earlier if it is that important. Don’t bring up 20 years ago I got to work in 20 minutes at 8 AM. Yeah, I did too but it is 2015 and traffic sucks. People drive like crap and safety is needed. 50 people on the bus removes 50 cars from traffic. The the bus merge in front of you, it will get out of your way soon and you will have passed 50 people. Above all just relax, and you will live longer.

Mok November 6, 2015 (6:36 pm)

Oakley34, I have no idea what you’re referring to. I wasn’t replying to anyone in the comments section. I was simply looking at the posted report and lamenting the fact that streets like Fauntleroy – specifically Fauntleroy- are going to become frustratingly undriveable (people already go 5-10mph under the speed limit, and I imagine that will not improve once the speed limit becomes 30). I guess we can argue about the safety of going 30 vs 35, if that is what you are referring to, but let me actually make an argument before you accuse me of being passionate and senseless.

Chris S November 6, 2015 (6:58 pm)

“I bet if you really factored all the impacts of autos into the equation, you would find autos are the most subsidized form of transportation.”

Well said, Jon Wright.

AJP November 6, 2015 (8:53 pm)

+1 to everything Jon Wright said!! Very well said.

me November 6, 2015 (9:24 pm)

I love all the people who love to ignore the speed limit whining and complaining!

XXX November 6, 2015 (10:38 pm)

“Somebody please re-find the links = I’m in a courtroom hallway and have to move on.”

That’s your job, not the readers’

re-move seattle November 6, 2015 (11:19 pm)

Why stop at 30 mph around West Seattle, hell lets make it 15 mph. It should be twice as safe right?

I now take side streets and avoid 35th and Roxbury completely. 37th works pretty well from Webster to Barton and you avoid the car train during commute times.

I am for safety as well, but it’s getting damned hard to drive anywhere in West Seattle.

Not everyone can take a bus or ride a bike to get to work. Wait till they add the bike lanes on 35th now that Move Seattle has passed. You think you had bicycle accidents before?

Gotta love all these people who think these changes are great. Perhaps you would like a road diet in your grocery store. Would you really want to shop there? It’s a dangerous place after all.

There has to be a balance between safety and allowing traffic to flow. Soon it will be faster to walk 35th than to drive it.

TheKing November 7, 2015 (1:56 am)

I agree with Mok, the speed reduction is to bring everyone to the lowest common denominator of driving skill. If you can’t drive 35 mph, what in the world do you do on I-5?, scream at the top of your lungs at 47 until you reach an exit? Haha. Geez. Before long we will all be given helmets at the movie theater and it won’t start until you have your seat belt on so everyone is safe. Over regulation is sad.

redblack November 7, 2015 (7:47 am)

re-move seattle: i live on one of those streets that people use to avoid traffic lights on fauntleroy. speeds frequently reach 40 mph on a street with little kids, disabled persons, joggers with pets, etc.

so i love it when i’m coming home and one of those people is tailgating me as i ease it down to 10 mph, signal, and turn in to my driveway.

they get pretty upset. i think it’s funny.

i think i’m going to start leaving improvised speed bumps on the street…

Make it 5 mph Zzzzzzzzz November 7, 2015 (8:32 am)

If safety is really the Almighty goal and zero deaths. I say what’s preventing them reducing it to 5mph. We can get there quicker. Quicker – now there’s word rarely used in traffic planning.

Lagartija Nick November 7, 2015 (8:44 am)

Re-Move Seattle: Just so everyone is clear on this, you are now speeding through residential streets with a posted limit of 20 mph just so you can avoid the inconvenience of having to slow down by 5 mph on an arterial. That makes perfect sense! Perhaps if your need for speed didn’t trump everyone else’s need for safer streets you wouldn’t be in this position.

chemist November 7, 2015 (9:12 am)

I think “road damage” on bikes vs cars is entirely red herring. As far as I know, most studies on road surface damage tend to go back to the AASHO experiments from the late 50s-60s that derived the 4th power law modeling damage per axle done by trucks vs heavier trucks. They warn against extrapolating all the way down to passenger vehicle weights, but even then suggest trucks and buses do several hundred to several thousand times more damage than a passenger car.
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If you want to talk road damage, buses may be worse than individual cars. I saw one presentation where it was written “When discussing road wear cars don’t matter: road damage is effectively caused by trucks”. Extrapolating further to bikes vs cars and road damage may be outside the important bounds/cars don’t damage roads much faster than weather does. There is a reason that bus routes and stops wind up rutted in asphalt and get upgraded to concrete or concrete pads at stops.
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I can jump up on a coffee table only so many times before it crumbles. My 5 year old can probably do it a few more times. It would be misguided to extrapolate how many times my cat can jump onto it or a how many times I can drop a magazine onto that coffee table before it breaks.

Born on Alki 59 November 7, 2015 (9:17 am)

“So you think it’s fine to hit people with your car? Nice. maybe move away. Far. Kidding aside, I dart out in front of cars that are clearly speeding on purpose. I wait until they are real close and have to literally slam on the brakes. Oh they get so mad.”

Ok, I nominate this for the 2015 WS Blog stupid post of the year award. Really, you dart in front of “speeding” cars on purpose. Wow, do you have any idea how bad people drive and what sort of accident you may cause by being idiotic Tom?

J November 7, 2015 (10:37 am)

I think the road diet was successful for one of its main objectives of allowing pedestrians a safer 35th to cross going east or west.

However, the pedestrians crossing north and south are now in way more danger.

Every single time I drive 35th a car waiting to turn at the red light darts in front of the car train and I’ve even seen the second car follow the first. Furthermore drivers trying to find a break in the car train are slicing through the smallest of gaps endangering other drivers and pedestrians walking north/south.

Unfortunately I am no longer able to maintain my safe following distance on 35th because of the cars trying to make forceful turns. Now I have to close the gap to avoid a t-bone accident from a driver turning at the last second trough a gap in cars that wasn’t big enough.

If people are having to drive that aggressive to make a turn I hardly believe they’ve taken the time to ensure pedestrian safety. (If they are even able see past the train of cars)

Lastly northbound 35th at Roxbury is very unsafe. Instead of making right lane a “right turn only” it allows drivers to block the right turn lane to drag race as the lane merges immediately on the other side of the intersection. Pointless.

re-move seattle November 7, 2015 (11:13 am)

Lagartija Nick: Who said anything about speeding through residential streets? I do the speed limit for residential streets, I just avoid the cluster **** that is now 35th. I am sure your the person doing 5mph under the speed limit where ever you go. Proably why you have someone tail gating you.

Lagartija Nick November 7, 2015 (4:25 pm)

Re-Move, sorry to burst your bubble but I drive at or just above the limit where possible yet never at others expense or safety. But you are cruising through residential streets at 20mph just to avoid having to go 30mph on an arterial. Like I said, makes perfect sense. Let’s go 20 so I can complain about having to go 30.

MOVE! Seattle PLEASE! November 7, 2015 (8:52 pm)

“There has to be a balance between safety and allowing traffic to flow. Soon it will be faster to walk 35th than to drive it. Comment by re-move seattle”
Satire follows.
****I am waiting for my new foot-ware stipend check from SDOT so I can commute more comfortably by foot. Especially since about an additional $500 to $600 of my wages will be going to towards higher property taxes. I will have less disposable income for my own necessities/basics like a good pair of walking shoes.

re-move seattle November 7, 2015 (10:29 pm)

largartjia Nick,

Fortunately for all of us you don’t get to choose where other people drive their cars. I for one feel so much safer knowing you are driving over the speed limit. So unless you parked your house in the middle of the road diet, I would love to see how you get to your house without traveling a residential street. Maybe you are just learning to drive and that’s cool. I understand how a new driver is nervous out there.

Lagartija Nick November 8, 2015 (8:15 am)

Re-Move, thank you so much for insulting me, twice now! All I did was point out the logical fallacy of choosing to drive 20mph on residential streets all while complaining about having to drive 30mph on an arterial. And you’ve chosen to attack and disparage my driving skills which you know nothing about (meanwhile you’ve chosen to make public yours). I have no tickets or accidents on my record going back 30 yrs. Can you say the same?

Ah, no need to answer that, I’m done feeding the troll. Thanks again for the insults and TRY to have a nice day!

Lagartija Nick November 8, 2015 (8:19 am)

Oh, and I’d like to point out that I know a residential street is just that, a residential street. Not a thoroughfare, that is what an arterial is for.

TheKing November 8, 2015 (12:12 pm)

Portland has 20mph speed limits in residential and business districts. Seattle had 10 pedestrian fatalities in 2014, Portland had 15. Looks like lowering speed limits is more dangerous.

WSB November 8, 2015 (12:35 pm)

The 20 mph roads are not where they are having the problems. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/524195 page 6:

“About 80% of Portland’s fatalities and serious injuries occur on just 19% of our roadways that are posted at 30 MPH or higher. A person is 25 times more likely to be killed on a Portland road posted at 35 MPH or higher compared to a road posted at 25 MPH or slower, when comparing per mile of roadway.”

Denn G. November 8, 2015 (2:13 pm)

Y’all need to remember the world consists of more than just you.

Jefe' on IDA ST. November 8, 2015 (8:04 pm)

Jon Wright you must not live in a road diet area. They make these adjustments in the name of Safety. BullSh$t. I have seen more accidents in the last couple of weeks than I have seen in two years. We now have people blasting down the neighborhood street because they don’t want to wait. Cars are stacked four blocks back only to wait again for another cycle of lights so they cut down side streets. Road diets work in some areas, not 35th. What a joke. Nothing is safe on our side streets now. Thanks SDOT. Morons. Oh and no one is going to take the stupid bus just because of this. Build a light rail that doesn’t stop at every corner like the bus and you might get some folks.

skeeter November 10, 2015 (12:42 pm)

*Everyone* is getting subsidized. Most money for roads, sidewalks, safety enforcement, and busses does NOT come from user fees and motor vehicle taxes. The majority of the money comes from sales tax and property tax. So if you pay sales tax and property tax you are paying for all these transportation costs.

Sorry, comment time is over.