New speed cameras on Roxbury: ‘Real’ tickets start Thursday

(WSB file photo – camera near Roxhill Elementary)
The new speed-enforcement cameras on SW Roxbury – in the Roxhill Elementary and Holy Family school zones – will start issuing “real” tickets this Thursday, October 2nd, as planned. We just checked with Seattle Police to verify that, and they confirm that the “warning period,” which started on September 3rd, ends Wednesday. If you received a “warning” ticket this month, we’d be interested to hear from you (please comment or e-mail us); we asked for information on how many “warnings” have been issued and are told we’ll have to request that via the public-disclosure process, so it might take a while. According to an SPD-provided info-sheet, West Seattle’s first speed-cam zone, Fauntleroy Way near Gatewood Elementary, was responsible for 5,500 $189 citations last school year. The city expects to add more cameras next year, but hasn’t announced the locations yet.

ACG September 29, 2014 (11:48 am)

5500×189= over a million dollars. Wow.

Jeff September 29, 2014 (12:37 pm)

The vendor typically gets half of the ticket fees.

Joe Szilagyi September 29, 2014 (12:51 pm)

5500, assuming — what, 40~ weeks of usage per year? 40×5 school days = 200 operational days, so that’s probably somewhere around 26-28 tickets per day of use. It’s amazing how people keep on speeding through that area in spite of this.
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Do you get any negative impact from these tickets onto your license and insurance?

carole September 29, 2014 (1:02 pm)

5500, about 30 per day in this ONE school zone. Add to that this story from the Times, Sept 11:

“In a single day last May, Seattle school-bus drivers reported that 320 vehicles passed them illegally while they were stopped with signs extended and red lights flashing — including 15 motorists who passed on the right side where students get on and off.”

SLOW DOWN PEOPLE, pay attention, leave 10 minutes earlier.

lux September 29, 2014 (1:48 pm)

No points are attached to the fine.

I ran a red light on 35th a couple of years ago, and only had to pay the ticket without any driving record penalty.

Joe Szilagyi September 29, 2014 (2:00 pm)

If we issued points for these the speeding would be ended pretty quickly.

kgdlg September 29, 2014 (2:25 pm)

It is important to remember that this is not a moving violation, because, technically, it is a picture of your car (license plate) not YOU driving the car (technically). So, it is not on your record in the same way as a moving violation.

This is why, technically, if you are driving someone’s car (not your own), you are not liable for the ticket. It is the car that gets the ticket. I don’t make these rules up. This is really the law.

Rumbles September 29, 2014 (3:03 pm)

@Joe S
Or raise the fine amount, it seems that under $200 is too small,,

Ken September 29, 2014 (3:43 pm)

I will continue to drive around these since the difference between 19 mph and 23 mph doesn’t even register on non digital speedometers. Besides as the school driver for family for the last 8 years I know for a fact the most dangerous drivers are the moms in SUV’s. The largest danger to school children is actually their jaywalking parents and their own inability to look before crossing no matter what their age.

Al September 29, 2014 (3:59 pm)

I sometimes drive through, get this, 3 – 4 (the horror!) school zones during the week. And have absolutely no problem being able to slow down my vehicle to 20 mph…even with a (gasp!) non-digital speedometer. And sometimes there’s lots of kids around. You know, walking, on bikes, on skateboards, in crosswalks, etc. trying to get to school. And my view is THEY take precedence. Not me. Not my, maybe, 5 minutes of time. Why is it people get so mad about following the road rules – that are there so people don’t get killed?

Les September 29, 2014 (4:46 pm)

I was driving on Mercer Island today and their school zone had the same flashing yellow lights and the same 20MPH but NO CAMARAS.
Is this really about children’s safety or just an easy way for the city of Seattle to get revenue?
I know from first hand experience that you can drive up to 25MPH when the lights are flashing without getting a ticket but 26MPH cost me $189.

G September 29, 2014 (4:52 pm)

I wouldn’t even know where to begin with driving here, especially when it involves pedestrians. It feels like Russian Roulette….does the car stop, or not?

WS Since 66 September 29, 2014 (4:56 pm)

My problem with them are the time when they are in use. Most of the time when I drive by them and see them flashing there are NO children present anywhere around. Turn them on when the kids are out. But I understand it is a great money maker for the company in Phoenix who owns them.

Al September 29, 2014 (5:14 pm)

And if no one speeds then no revenue…the signs are not that difficult. Seriously.

WS Since 66 September 29, 2014 (5:37 pm)

I agree Al no one should be speeding. But seriously it is all about the timing when they are used.

I. Ponder September 29, 2014 (5:38 pm)

I’m lobbying for having cameras used to fine drivers who don’t stop for pedestrians in crosswalks.

L September 29, 2014 (6:03 pm)

The eastbound Roxbury camera next to Roxhill elementary photographed me last week. It’s right at the very end of the school zone.

I had slowed down to 20, but started to speed up as I approached the 30mph limit sign that marks the end of the zone. I was probably going 27 when the camera’s flash went off. That placement seems really predatory. Be careful.

Haven’t received any warning letter yet, though.

L September 29, 2014 (6:06 pm)

“I was driving on Mercer Island today and their school zone had the same flashing yellow lights and the same 20MPH but NO CAMERAS.”

I commuted through that school zone on Island Crest Way every day for a few months. There are routinely cops with radar guns stationed there. Not every day, but at least once a week. So Mercer Island does enforce it.

PSPS September 29, 2014 (6:53 pm)

The cops enforcing the zones on Mercer Island indicates their primary concern is safety. Seattle’s ‘camera’ option indicates their primary concern is the money. The camera outfit in Phoenix, which gets $50/ticket, just loves doing business with cities like Seattle.

old timer September 29, 2014 (7:28 pm)

Well, I am ashamed to admit that I do not know what to do when the red light flashing school bus is in the opposite lane.
For example, I’m driving north and the flashing bus is going south. Should traffic stop in both directions?
I see many other drivers who by their actions are as confused as I am.

WSB September 29, 2014 (7:29 pm)

OT – http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2008/12/02/when-can-i-pass-a-school-bus-with-lights-going/

drahcir61 September 29, 2014 (7:33 pm)

Put some cameras in the school zone on 16th Ave SW & SW Myrtle … & you’ll double the numbers listed above. Once a month they have a cop car & he stays pretty busy … then another 29 days go by.
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50% of drivers don’t know the rules of the road, 25% don’t care, & 25% drive safely.
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And I agree with a previous post, many of the worst drivers are moms speeding away from the school after just dropping off junior (the “I don’t care” group).

StringCheese September 29, 2014 (8:03 pm)

WSB, that link was really quite helpful. I must admit that I am still left wondering whether a middle “turn lane” counts as a lane. Would streets like Delridge and Fauntleroy be considered as 3-lane streets and therefore not require drivers going in the opposite direction to stop?
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Can anyone clarify?

old timer September 29, 2014 (8:06 pm)

Thank you WSB.
That link cleared my confusion.

whhy September 29, 2014 (9:18 pm)

They are not marked far enough in ADVANCE !! and some are behind trees. This is a total joke. Plus they are running when kids are clearly not PRESENT.

giffff September 29, 2014 (9:33 pm)

Being one of the 5500, I’d like to point out a couple things.
1. If the goal is to protect kids the sign (& camera) going W on Fauntleroy should be MUCH more visable.
2. Likewise it makes sense to have it when kids are going and coming from school.

Having hard to see until you are on top of it and running it as much as possible will net you more $ and eventually locals will learn and slow way down. better signage would help to better protect kids but would cost the city$. After all not all the cars going down Fauntleroy are local.

pupsarebest September 30, 2014 (1:34 am)

The speed trap/camera for Quadelupe School on 35th SW is set up so those turning from Willow or Myrtle, headed south on 35th SW, have to guess from the other slow-moving cars that the trap is in activation-mode.
The sign indicating the trap even exists is positioned north of Willow and Myrtle—I call bulls**t.

dmurin September 30, 2014 (7:47 am)

@Stringcheese: the turn lane is for turning, not passing. It does not count as a third lane. EVERYONE stops for red flashing lights with two traffic lanes in opposite directions. Only drivers on bus side stop when there are two or more lanes in each direction.

cpeterson September 30, 2014 (10:13 am)

I just got my warning in the mail. It was so odd because I am very careful to follow the school zone speeds. (Maybe I catch myself going 22 or 23 MPH, but nothing excessive). It was an odd warning because it said I was speeding at 3:40 PM one day in Sept. I didn’t think the lights flashed that late- is it still a school zone then? Another point I was confused on was that I work until 5PM, so it would be quite unusual for me to be driving that road at 3:40. Made me wonder if their time stamps were off or if they were taking pictures outside of school zone times.

Craig September 30, 2014 (1:31 pm)

dmurin… You may want to make an update to this entry on wikipedia… “Drivers in Washington state are not required to stop for a school bus on any highway (Under Washington law, any public road is defined as a highway) with three or more lanes when traveling in the opposite direction.[8] This has been interpreted to mean that when approaching a bus from the opposite direction on a normal road with a turn lane, or a road with two lanes in each direction, etc., a driver is not required to stop their vehicle.”
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_bus_traffic_stop_laws#cite_note-8
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Of course I think the turn lane counts as a “marked traffic lane”, but it certainly isn’t real clear in the RCW.

j September 30, 2014 (3:26 pm)

Gatewood light would be moved to the north if it were truly about safety and not money instead of being tucked around the corner behind bushes and parked cars.
Same situation as Pups at Roxhill. Side street has no warning lights. Warning lights and signs need to be on any side street and/or alley that enters the zone and at both ends of the school zone. I would also propose for safety that we add additional warning lights to these school zones that are so unsafe they need cameras. A warning light 100yds before the speed zone would increase safety.
What happens when lights aren’t adjusted properly during day light savings or during glitches in the system. Is Traffic Safety Solutions fined?
We are sending millions of our dollars out if state people! Bad economics.
Learn from other cities and get rid of the cameras and hire people.

lost October 3, 2014 (12:34 pm)

So does the speed camera get you when those yellow lights are flashing? Or how does this work? If I am going 32mph at 11am I get a ticket?

really October 3, 2014 (11:39 pm)

STOP HIDING THE CAMERAS OR ELSE We’ll just drive around them. Yes that means in front of your house.

Bradley October 6, 2014 (12:44 am)

Do we really want drivers looking at their speedometers instead of at the road and scanning for children? Seems to me that we’ve just let the city create a couple of new, couple-hundred-yard distracted driver zones. They say it’s “for the children”, but it’s really for the $$$.

Sorry, comment time is over.