After 4 years, city approves illuminated sign for Madison

Four years after a review process began for a proposed illuminated sign at Madison Middle School, the city has announced a decision: The sign installation is approved, “with conditions.” Some neighbors had expressed concern after the 30-square-foot sign was first proposed in 2009 for the east facade of the school gym. Discussion here at that time indicated the money was coming from parent fundraising as well as from grants and gifts. After the proposal languished for three years, it resurfaced last June, with the city convening the committee formed to consider a requested “departure” from zoning, and now comes the decision. Today’s notice opens a two-week period for appeals, with the deadline May 29th; we’re asking the district about the project’s status.

ADDED 1:51 PM FRIDAY: District spokesperson Tom Redman replied today to our inquiry. He included background, some of which is redundant to our story above, but in the spirit of sharing everything the district said, his full reply is below:

The Madison PTSA proposed to purchase and install an electronic reader board sign on the east face of the gymnasium about 4 years ago.

The PTSA applied for and received Department of Neighborhood Matching Funds toward the cost of the sign. The PTSA raised funds to cover the balance of the costs.

Because Madison is situated in a Residential Zone (as are the majority of our schools), a “Departure” from (city of Seattle) Design Standards is necessary to allow the changing image sign.

A Departure was requested, but then temporarily placed on hold, because there was a possibility the Land Use Code would be revised to allow this type of sign outright. But that did not occur. So the process was started up again last spring.

In June of last year, Department of Neighborhoods (responsible for overseeing the Departure process), convened a school/community based committee to review the proposal and make a recommendation.

· This past week, the city issued their decision to grant the Departure, with conditions.

· The conditions concern the limited timeframe the sign can be illuminated during week days and weekends; messages must be non-commercial, and community messages (e.g. community council meetings) can comprise only a small percent of overall messaging; and no flashing images allowed.

The PTSA will order the sign, and when it arrives, it will be installed by the sign company.
Todd Crooks, PTSA representative, would have the cost information. We don’t have information regarding gifts or donations.

22 Replies to "After 4 years, city approves illuminated sign for Madison"

  • WS Parent May 16, 2013 (8:21 am)

    This is good news, I donated for this sign back in 2009! I don’t have students at WS High but I read their sign to find out about all the activities going on and then can choose to attend things like plays, concerts, baseball games at Hiawatha etc. I hope this sign will bring families to the events happening at Madison. Middle schools are often forgotten about in the community.

  • Another resident May 16, 2013 (2:17 pm)

    Why do we need this sign that the regular one won’t do? How much power will this sign require? Can’t we stick with the green existing option? I don’t want this sign. I think it might be a blight on the neighborhood!

  • Lisa Weeks May 16, 2013 (4:45 pm)

    Based on my peripheral part in this review process, I am very disappointed. The “community” review committee membership as selected by the city was biased towards approving it and the city approval seemed to be a rubber stamp of the committee’s approval. Only one meeting was held, people who could answer neighborhood concerns were not present, and there was no follow-up from the city approval departments on inquiries made via phone or e-mail. The people who want the sign don’t appear to actually live on the blocks facing the parking lot and so it’s easy for them to disregard the neighborhood concerns. Having been a long time parent and supporter of the Seattle School District, this makes it very difficult for me to vote to approve future SSD levy requests, knowing how the district has responded on this issue.

  • Adam Ludwig May 17, 2013 (12:10 am)

    The comments by Lisa Weeks are spot on. A sign of this nature is visually atrocious and unprecedented in a Seattle residential neighborhood like the one in which Madison Middle School resides. Anyone who is interested in the happenings at Madison can log on to the schools website for the calendar of events. This is not a high school on a busy arterial, it is a middle school nestled on a residential street. The machine that put this zoning variance in motion was able to stack the deck in their favor over the concerns of the neighborhood. As described by the committee, the goal of the sign was to “get the word out” to individuals who do not live in the neighborhood on the goings on at the School. Do the signs proponents assume these same individuals will be doing drive-bys of the school to get this information? What a sad, misguided endeavor, and one that will reflect poorly on the school as much as it does the neighborhood.

    Everyone should also be advised that this electronic sign will, in fact, have video, scrolling, and flashing capabilities suitable to advertising that are outside of the operating protocols that were approved by the district. Let’s see how long it takes for the operators of the sign to “forget” how it was supposed to be programmed. Stay tuned for your Madison Middle School events calendar, “Brought To You By CocaCola.”

  • newnative May 17, 2013 (11:23 am)

    Completely ridiculous waste of money. How about streamlining their website or educating their staff so parents and community members have access to events? As a parent of a Madison student, it can be an incredible process to get accurate information on concerts, basketball games, phone numbers of coaches. Yet they can put up an illuminated sign?!

  • Taylor Mattler May 18, 2013 (2:57 pm)

    I think it’s funny that the people that donated money for the sign back in 2009 most likely have a student who is by now graduating from HIGH SCHOOL!!!! Who dropped the ball on this? I would think that Madison High School would have a better idea on how to spend that donated money. Look harder Madison, I’m sure the money could go to things like NUMBER 2 pencils that the students had to povide for a recent test. Shame on Madison :(

  • Victoria Winters May 18, 2013 (3:11 pm)

    Waste of money. Too bad Madison doesn’t inform their families better, than they would not need a gaint eye sore. Thankfully I do not live that far down that I would not have to look at it daily. How many parents even drive their children to school still in middle school? I totally agree with NEWNATIVE on this one. If they have the time and money to put up a sign, why not use that money to pay someone to update their website?

  • Zelma Zieman May 18, 2013 (5:35 pm)

    After serving as the Madison PTSA President this year, I can say there were many times when I wished we had the reader board! We have a diverse group of families representing over 750 students and 90 staff – all with different ways they prefer to receive information. The reader board is one more tool for helping us connect and build community. Madison isn’t unique in this approach. Many local middle and high schools are replacing older, manual copy changing signs with energy efficient LED signs. The Madison PTSA, past and present, has supported the reader board. It has been a long, slow process with many twists and turns. However, in the end, the electronic reader board will improve communication at Madison.

    During the permit process, the school/PTSA listened to the neighbors’ concerns and did our best to try to find common ground. For example, the school/PTSA agreed to reduce the hours the sign would be on to 7 pm on weekdays and to 5 pm on weekends. The sign will not flash, show video, or advertise. It will be placed on the gym facing the school parking lot. All of this can be confirmed by reading the permit decision and DON report. We understand that some of the neighbors are not in favor of installing the sign. In the end, we will need to respectfully disagree.

    Madison has been part of the neighborhood since 1929. Even though we may not all agree on the reader board decision, we look forward to continuing to work together on other issues that create a healthy and safe environment for all children.

    Thanks, Zelma Zieman, Madison PTSA President

  • Lisa Weeks May 18, 2013 (7:07 pm)

    The key element here is, “Because Madison is situated in a Residential Zone (as are the majority of our schools), a ‘Departure’ from (city of Seattle) Design Standards is necessary to allow the changing image sign.”

    We as residents should reasonably been able to expect to be protected by Residential Zone Design Standards, and we weren’t. We were put in a position of having to demonstrate why the standards shouldn’t be waived, when the default position should have been to deny the waiver when there was neighborhood objection.

  • WestSeattle4Life May 18, 2013 (9:46 pm)

    I have read the comments made about this matter and feel like the Madison PTA president answered none of the questions asked. I’m sure she does not live in view of the sign and would not be effected by it. I would be VERY interested to hear what her board members and the rest of the PTA members think about this project. Even with the excuse about how the sign will only run certain hours does that give Madison the excuse about not informing their families about what is going on at there school? Also the times that it would be running are the times when there is a staff member answering the phone to anwer questions. Therefore why would they turn the sign off when people would need the information because their is no one to ask. Keep the community and neighbor happy by not putting up a reader board. That’s how you build a commuinty. Back to reader board……I mean back to the drawing board Madison.

  • Pecan63 May 18, 2013 (10:46 pm)

    While we all know that there is never enough money to go around, Madison Middle School has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in how this money is spent. Half of it is a neghborhood grant that can only be applied to the project it was designated to and the other half came from a PTSA fundraiser for this specific project. This is a PTSA driven project, not a school district or school project. The parents in 2009 wanted this bad enough to fund it and the parents now want it bad enough to pick up the baton and push it through. These are parents that care enough to get up off their butts and do something (whether everyone agrees or not) to support their schools. They don’t make petty comments about the school’s intentionally forgetting the rules or threaten to withhold thei votes to get their way. If you care so much, get involved.

  • Gardengrandma May 18, 2013 (11:04 pm)

    I have lived in West Seattle all my 59 years. I have been a graduate from Madison Middle school as have my 3 children. Who have went on to become a doctor and 2 teachers. I have always been a strong advocate for Seattle Schools. I know I don’t have much of a say in this ( not a neighbor, nor have a student at Madison ) but I feel like Madison would making a big mistake in not doing what is best for the community and it’s neighborhood. It sounds like an old issue and maybe the school should put more of their energy into academics and not into a reader board. PUN VERY MUCH INTENDED

  • Cycleman May 19, 2013 (1:44 pm)

    Ok, I have stayed out of this long enough. I Am one of those former parents to was at the auction that help raise money for this reader board. My wife and I donated $400 to the reader board. Not only was the reader board not put up during the time both of our children were there, it is STILL not up some 6 years later. I would be very interested in what will happen to my money if the reader board is not put up. I was wonder how long they have a legal right to just be sitting on it. Beileve me my check was cashed less than 10 days
    after the auction. If there is any more of the original parents out there who donated $ to the reader board fund, I am totally willing to head up a way to get our money back to us!!!!

  • Runnergirl May 19, 2013 (4:45 pm)

    I am a parent of a 6th grader at Madison. I have only been to a handful of PTA meetings this year but what I do know is not all of the members are on board with this reader board. When the subject is brought up I saw eyes rolling and more than a few people saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Sounds like they have really tried to get this done and have been given the run around. I think they are loyal to guy who has put in alot of time into this project and maybe don’t want to hurt his feelings by giving up on it. Other than that maybe the board could ask those who donated years ago to let it go to other needs at the school.

  • Pecan63 May 19, 2013 (8:17 pm)

    To Cydeman: there was definitely discussion about how we were to get the money back to the original donors when the “sign” issue came up at. Meeting about two years ago. I am not at the school now, but can tell you that we investigated all angles before going forward with re-instigating the permit process. Having had a spokesperson that would take responsibility for representing the original donors would have been and might still be a huge help to the current PTSA, who is just trying to deal with problems left behind by some ambitious, if not well thought out plans by a board, that like the parents that donated, are no longer at the school. The current facts are this….the money can only be spent on this project, or offered back to the original donors. It cannot be reallocated, and as such, it seems easiest to move forward so the money doesn’t just sit. The ptsa members at Madison voted to move forward before the DON was contacted. Some money has already been spent on the permit process…who pays for that if we start giving money back?
    It is a difficult situation for all, but I do want to make it clear that the families at Madison are pushing this forward, not the school or the district.

  • Runnergirl May 20, 2013 (9:53 am)

    Well how many times do the people who donated have to pay for all these new permits every couple of months. How many have they already paid for?? Not that I expect to get an real answer :(

  • Cory Hughes May 20, 2013 (4:06 pm)

    Ugh. I live across the street from Madison Middle School and I have voiced my opinion from day one that I do not want the electronic reader board to be installed. If only those parents who gave money could have attended the public hearing last year held at the Madison Middle School library. The manner in which the neighbors in attendance were treated was shameful. The parties in favor of the sign were deaf to our concerns and wishes, they simply waited for the rubber stamp to fall. Excuse me Mrs. Zielman, but any mention of “building community” by the PTSA is a total farce. I am losing faith in the local entities charged with EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN, as it is clearly not their priority.

  • Runnergirl May 20, 2013 (9:15 pm)

    I just wanna throw this out there!!! Madison Middle School sends out a WEEKLY robo call to ALL parents at Madison. My husband and myself receive a call from both of our phones. The Principal of Madison calls and leaves a message telling parents what is going on at Madison for the week. If the parents don’t get the message of up coming events that way, then there is no way they are going to pay attention to a sign when they drop their children off at school. It’s true that the calls do not include sports game times but that would be up to the parents to know when their children have a game. Hello, talk to your childs coach people!!!! Be involved in their lives!!! Parenting doesn’t STOP after grade school.

  • Cycleman May 21, 2013 (9:47 pm)

    Have no fear neighbors and former auction goers that are now out of their money!!!! I have contacted some people who can get our money back for us. They say it will take some time, hopefully not 6 years like that reader board. If possible we will need a record of what you donated. It would be nice to have but not a requirement. The school PTA by law should have the paper work. They should have records of having an audit themselves. I will get some kind a notice put up in the WSB for people to contact me soon. Cycleman

  • Cycleman May 21, 2013 (9:55 pm)

    Also, a quick shout out to The West Seattle Blog for putting this reader board issue out there. Honstly I totally forgot about my $400 years ago. Good work keeping WS informed!!!!

  • Kara May 24, 2013 (1:58 pm)

    If the electronic sign is not approved, then a regular sign will be placed on the outside of the gym wall and no special permitting is needed for that one. Neither sign will block anyone’s view. It’s sad the it has taken this long for something so simple to happen, but that is not the fault of the PTSA at Madison, but rather the permitting of the City of Seattle. To the immediate neighbors of Madison, I truly believe this sign is not going to be the eyesore you think it will be. Quite honestly, having it turned off at night will make it less visible, rather than a regular sign which will display it’s message 24/7. I would think it would be helpful to neighbors to know of upcoming events like open houses, music programs & science night. If not for a chance for the community to engage in such events, at least for a heads up that street parking will be congested. Yes, there are multiple ways for Madison to communicate with families and this is just another route. We all have our best modes of communicating and this sign is meant to alert/remind the greater community and students, who are not checking our website daily. We also want to use this sign to shout out our children’s successes. Honestly, an old fashioned sign is more work and a waste of valuable staff time to manage. And no, there will not be advertizing or video.

  • Cycleman May 25, 2013 (10:48 pm)

    Frankly, my money went for a electronic sign, not a regular sign. If it is not approved or it is, my money will be returned to me. This has gone on long enough.

Sorry, comment time is over.