66 Replies to "No more snow makeup days? District seeks waiver"

• Brian M. January 30, 2012 (12:58 pm)

  While I understand the constraints, I find it a shame that the children will have two less days of in-class education.

• cclarue January 30, 2012 (1:08 pm)

  I second what Brian said. If anything the kids need more class time not less.

• Aman January 30, 2012 (1:33 pm)

  Why isn’t going to school on a Saturday as a make-up day an option?

• Slider January 30, 2012 (1:34 pm)

  By the end of the school year there is no learning going on especailly in the elementary schools. Everyone is done, teachers, students and parents. Those 2 days are not going to make a difference at all, I say WAIVER!!!!!!! Or at least use March 16th as one make up day.

• wondering January 30, 2012 (1:47 pm)

  Are the teachers cut pay for those two “missing days” as well? If they’re already getting paid to teach those two make up days – then teach! Our kids need all they can get.

• KM January 30, 2012 (1:49 pm)

  I’m new to the area, but why don’t they build any days into the calendar for weather? I know it doesn’t snow much here, but aren’t there at least a couple days a year with weather wintery enough to call school off?

• star January 30, 2012 (1:50 pm)

  I third what Brian said. That is ridiculous. Take 2 days off of Midwinter break! It is a pointless break anyway. Let the people who made plans go, and the rest of the kids go to school. It’s easy. Shameful, kids need more education, not less.

• Homesick January 30, 2012 (1:53 pm)

  If the days are already listed on the schedule at the end of the year as make up days, then what’s the problem?
  Shame on them for not planning the money to cover the “established” schedule in the yearly budget.

  I thought education was suppose to be about what is best for the children…

• mom January 30, 2012 (1:53 pm)

  Unfortunately days in January and days in June are not created equally…

• monroe1200 January 30, 2012 (2:23 pm)

  I would think that at a savings of $500,000.00, that the kids will be just fine with 2 days less of learning and playing. In fact, my kids probably will learn more staying home with the family and exploring the day together, than they would at school with all of their friends. These would be added to the beginning of Summer, which means 2 days spent cleaning out desks and lockers and running around anxiously waiting to get out in the sun. Not really worth the $500,000.00 in my opinion. Not taking away all that is taught at school, but come on it’s only 2 days. I’m sure us adults are not making up any days we didnt go to work!

• abc123 January 30, 2012 (2:23 pm)

  I totally agree that they need more class time, they don’t want to spend the money for more class time…does anyone really want to ‘teach’ our children? Feel like public school is so lazy about educating our kids and we can’t all afford private school unfortunately…

• Colleen January 30, 2012 (2:30 pm)

  Does the disctict usually only schedule one snow/weather make up day?

  While not trying to get into a teacher/pay arguement, were they paid for snow days? So cutting those would mean the cost of paying the teachers/saleried stasff is still there. While any of the hourly staff loses out on those two days of make up pay.

• westseattleperson January 30, 2012 (2:50 pm)

  Dumb. I’d much rather they’d make up the days during the silly mid-winter break.

• add January 30, 2012 (3:02 pm)

  Just an fyi – next year the full week of mid-winter break in February is being changed to a long weekend (can’t find the exact dates), so we’ll finish a little earlier in June, hallelujah!! In the meantime, I agree they should just make up these two days if they have to over the Feb break, so what if some students/staff already have plans. I can pretty much guarantee that people already have plans starting on June 21st, too.

• kate January 30, 2012 (3:12 pm)

  Keep kids in school! I’m all for ditching summer break, too. I think our country would benefit greatly from a system like that; it would keep up the momentum of learning (including shorter breaks throughout the whole year). I’m also very against homework, parents that make their kids go to college, crappy cafeteria food and driver’s licenses at age 16.

• Brian M. January 30, 2012 (3:12 pm)

  @Monroe1200: How very fortunate that you didn’t “make up” for the days that you missed work. I am sure that I speak for others that my work didn’t magically go away in those two days. Any work that was missed had to be made it up in the form of extra hours and weekend work.

• Lisa Y January 30, 2012 (3:29 pm)

  I agree that not much will be missed by just 2 days less school. I don’t agree with doing away with mid-winter break, but next year it will change to a long weekend. I checked the district calendar and next year mid winter break will start Feb. 15th and since Monday is Presidents Day as well kids will return to school Feb. 19th.

• Lisa Y January 30, 2012 (3:30 pm)

  Kate you are hilarious!

• Keep them in school January 30, 2012 (3:40 pm)

  Keep them in school. Yes the last few days they don’t do much but if it is not the made up days it will be the last few days either way. If we don’t make them up kids miss out on less days in the classroom. I agree with kate shorten summer that is a waste of a break.

• A January 30, 2012 (4:01 pm)

  I remember starting school the day after labor day and getting out on June 9th every year…haveing 3 months of vacation in the summer. Now it’s down to 2 months if the kids are lucky. Why do they need a week off in Feb. when they just had 2 weeks off for winter and will have a week off in early April?
  Just saying!

• Kotter January 30, 2012 (4:11 pm)

  I hate to say it, but I believe we can blame this one on a totally inflexible teacher’s union. They insist on teachers being paid for the snow days but scream bloody murder if they actually have to make them up. And yeah, ‘mid-winter break’ is a joke. It benefits no one other than the staff that gets another paid vacation, six weeks after a two week break, and inconveniences all of us who have to work our butts off for a living. Basically, it’s a least amount of work for the most amount of money paradigm, and gee, teachers just can’t understand why people are fed up with public education. Sure, it’s not a great paying job, but then how many careers have a six or seven hour work day and four or more months a year off? I wish I did.

• Step-It-Up Parents January 30, 2012 (4:23 pm)

  Maybe its time Seattle parents Stepped-Up – the Seattle public schools, in too many cases are turning out poorly educated kids. I think its time that parents do their job. Hold the schools accountable or get them into a better school, which many cant afford. If the parents dont ask the schools to step-it-up – no one else will.

  I sent my 1st kid to public school until end of 2nd grade — when I realized just how behind she was. We decided to make education the highest priority, at significant sacrifice. Now, we send both our girls to private school, which is the only reason that i work (for that $40k+ a year tuition). I (or hubby) also spend half of our evenings reviewing what their classes are addressing, discussing their work, and ensuring that they are both doing their homework. Research shows that when the parents are interested and engaged, there is a greater possibility that the kids will reach their potential. My kids’ private school is making sure they get the curriculum that they missed due to snow — will your kids?

  “Monroe…” I feel sad for your kids. If your kids learn more at home, your household is in the minority. If that is correct and I were you – I’d be homeschooling starting tomorrow.

  I say add days to the school year — dont deduct it. Sad. So Sad.

• Avasmom January 30, 2012 (4:48 pm)

  I guess my question is how come it will cost $500,000 to make up 2 days of school? Didn’t they save money being closed on the snow days?

• KM January 30, 2012 (4:52 pm)

  Are you kidding me? “Does anyone really want to teach our children?” A six hour work day? Four months off a year? Having taught in several schools, I have never met a teacher that didn’t care wholeheartedly about educating children. It may be a 7 hour paid work day, but you will be hard pressed to find a teacher that doesn’t do at least an hour of work at home every night, not to mention the funds we spend out of pocket on our students. It’s not a great paying job because we don’t work year-round. Implying that the teachers are the lazy ones is idiotic. I don’t think it’s the teachers at your neighborhood school that are petitioning the state to save a little money. Who wants to teach our children? I DO! And so do all the other teachers out there. We are not the problem. You just might be, though, if this is the amount of support you show your children’s teachers.

• Another WS Mom January 30, 2012 (4:52 pm)

  I’m sure that *most* parents would actually like to see a couple of days shaved off of Mid-Winter Break to make up for these snow days. Do that many people actually make travel plans for this week? Then again, SPS isn’t asking for any parent’s opinion!

• Snow Wimp January 30, 2012 (4:58 pm)

  Lot of parental whining about essentially nothing.

• Euripides January 30, 2012 (5:06 pm)

  Kotter,

  If you hate to say it, don’t. Your comment just makes you look silly. It’s not the teachers who are screaming about having to make them up, it’s the district.
  I’m surprised at how many people commenting here seem not to have read the article above, about why midwinter break is not an option, about why school days in June aren’t very useful, about who is initiating this move. Perhaps the adults of West Seattle need to go back to school! :-)

• cmc January 30, 2012 (5:42 pm)

  I have the same question as Avasmom — can someone clarify?

• Tuesday January 30, 2012 (5:45 pm)

  Euripides, there’s a big difference between teachers and the teachers union. And my hunch is the waiver has teacher’s union written all over it. But regardless, 2 days is not going to make or break anyone’s educational future. Once, when I was a kid, we had a Saturday snow day make up… movies all day. They’re not going to be missing anything.

• LS January 30, 2012 (6:18 pm)

  I fully support SPS in requesting no makeup days to be held for the two snow days. Two days is not going to make or break the educational year for our kids.

  For those complaining that our kids need more time in school… when your child is sick for a week do you request that the school extend the school year for them?

  When you pull your kids out for an extra few days of vacation do you expect the school to extend the school year for them?

  In the scheme of all the reasons that kids miss school during the year, two snow days is not a big deal.

• Euripides January 30, 2012 (6:21 pm)

  Ooooh, a hunch! That’s definitely a good reason to blame the teachers for this action. After all, they’re responsible for the global financial meltdown and income inequality as well!

• lady January 30, 2012 (6:22 pm)

  Every time there is snow, there is the question of make-up days. It comes down to what is going to be the best all-around (students, families and budget–teacher preference really should not be a factor). With a hefty price tag, it might make sense to just scrap the two days. I wonder if people who are pushing for the make-up days are really that interested in education or if it is about ‘punishing the teachers’ because they had a ‘day off’. Come on. Be honest. Maybe we should be more concerned with our legislators taking their PAID vacation time when our budget isn’t balance. I do know that teachers are not given paid vacation time. They are paid for 180 days (although they can use sick days when they are sick). All that ‘vacation’ time is unpaid leave or mandatory ‘furlough’ days. I’m sure that plenty of teachers work second jobs and summer jobs and would love to extend their contracts for more paid days. Unfortunately, the community would never fund year-round school.

• wescatle January 30, 2012 (7:11 pm)

  Pretty harsh Kate- and you want a hot dog and beer stand at Lincoln Park????(see Colman Pool renovation)

• a January 30, 2012 (7:16 pm)

  I was wondering the same thing as Avasmom. It should all even out. You missed two days so…. saved $500,000? I would guess that considering they claim it will cost that much to make up the days. It shouldn’t be anything extra. SPS needs to pull their head out of their ass. They’re horrible.

• Tuesday January 30, 2012 (7:18 pm)

  Euripides, again, there’s a difference between teachers and the teachers union. Unions have different motivations than individual teachers. Both of my sisters are teachers. They rarely agree with the actions of the teachers union on their “behalf.” Also, if you would read, I never blamed teachers for anything. I just said the teachers union was likely behind the waiver. That is all. Whatever the motivation behind the waiver, union or not, I don’t blame anyone. I think it won’t matter, educationally speaking, at all either way.

• a January 30, 2012 (7:53 pm)

  And one more thing….they do need to be in school. The education is already lacking because the class sizes are overflowing and teachers can’t teach what they need to.

• Bonnie January 30, 2012 (7:59 pm)

  I haven’t read all the responses but why can’t they make them during mid winter break?

• Daddy January 30, 2012 (8:12 pm)

  Maybe we should take all the 2 hour early dismissals and combine them to make up 2 full days of school. Seems like every week we got another 2 hour furlough day or something. What’s that about? They miss 2 days of school, and first day they’re back they get let out 2 hours early. Then the next week they get another 2 hour day. All these short days could amount to make up time. Just sayin.

• Cclarue January 30, 2012 (8:22 pm)

  Ls my kids do not miss school for vacation days nor for illness. we are fortunate they are healthy. I have a fourth grader with perfect attendance and an 8th grader who hardly misses school because we make it a priority. Our country should take note from india when it comes to education.

• goodgraces January 30, 2012 (9:46 pm)

  LS: I could not agree more. Well said. This is a whole bunch of hoo-ha over nothing. People with their knickers in a bunch because of principles as opposed to reality.

  And Cclarue: Come on. Your kids have never missed a day of school for health reasons? Either your family has supernatural immunity and good fortune, or you’re sending the kids whether they’re sick or not (based, again, on principle!). If, as I suspect, it’s the latter, then I suppose *my* kids have yours to thank for keeping those germs spreadin’ around. I think (disclaimer: Here’s the principle we live by) sick folks have a social obligation to stay home to prevent spread of illness! And kids who aren’t feeling well need their parents, not sitting at a desk all day in service to some silly principle of perfect attendance.

  But, back to the point here: Let the teachers and kids out of having to make up two ridiculous days!

• Dan January 30, 2012 (10:13 pm)

  To “Cclarue” …Take note from INDIA?!…. Where children who suffer from unthinkable poverty, are physically challenged or learning disabled are often denied ANY education whatsoever??!!…. What an embarrassing comment… I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you did not really mean to say such a thing.

• Another parent January 30, 2012 (10:26 pm)

  My kids have incredibly devoted & talented teachers. They have not been happy with the disruption to the flow of learning that the recent snow and furlough days have caused. Unfortunately, they are not in charge of the district calendar or budget. I can assure you, our teachers have our children’s best interest in mind. And quite frankly, even if they were paid for snow days that will not be made up, it would still not add up to the many unpaid hours of personal time they put into their work. So stop bashing our teachers! They would much rather spend their time in class with our children.

• WSMama January 30, 2012 (10:29 pm)

  Wow, I am surprised to be the first commenter who absolutely LOVES all of the school breaks! I hope they don’t make up the snow days and I am bummed that midwinter break is getting shortened next year. More family time is always good in my book!

• Step-it-Up Parents January 30, 2012 (11:05 pm)

  Reading these comments gives me a clear sense of the Seattle school problem. Teachers are not to blame. Rather a number of parents commenting – YOU are the problem, as education does not seem to be your priority. You should be demanding that your kids get the best education. We tried, but too many others were apathetic, so we took the private route. My kids don’t miss school for vacation as we dont schedule them during the school year. Our oldest, now in 8th grade has only missed 1 day due to illness, while her sister, in 6th has never missed a day. If education is your priority, which we believe essential in our house, NOTHING gets in the way of learning. As a result, both of our girls are exceptional students (and young women). Support your kids teachers, especially those going the extra mile.

• teacher/mom January 31, 2012 (12:36 am)

  Kotter, teachers in Seattle get no PAID vacation days. (Or paid holidays, either.) Teaching is seasonal work, and we are paid only for days worked each year. The district takes a portion of my salary out each month to cover the summer months of unemployment. If I run out of sick days, there are no vacation days to draw from, so I get pay docked. Really.
  There is no conspiracy of teachers or their union against two snow make-up days. There are too many other more pressing educational issues.
  I am not surprised by some of these comments. No school means extra daycare expenses. If I did babysitting-with-lessons for those two days instead of teaching, I could make $160 per hour, or just short of $2000. Hmmmm, I’ll have to bring this up at the next staff meeting (also unpaid time)….

• me January 31, 2012 (1:01 am)

  Just pick two school days out of the year and asked the kids to study twice as hard. Problem sholved next.

• Brian M. January 31, 2012 (7:33 am)

  I agree EXACTLY with what “Step-it-Up Parents” said. Any parent who said that my kid’s breaks shouldn’t get shortened, 2 days won’t make much difference, etc, is SHORT-CHANGING your own children’s education. Our goal as parents is to create opportunities for our children, and an adequate education is one of the myriad ways to provide that opportunity.

  Independently, 2 days may not be that big of a deal. However, when you factor in the sum of all parts affecting education, our children are getting a raw deal.

  Do not concede the loss of these two days! Do not concede on ANY item that will take away from our children’s education!!!

• Lisa January 31, 2012 (8:28 am)

  I am a tutor for SPS. If school is canceled, I do not get paid. If I do not get paid, I cannot pay my bills. These days need to be made up for the kids to learn as much as possible AND for all of us hourly employees.

• Lisa Y January 31, 2012 (8:33 am)

  WSMama I so agree with you, I enjoy the extra time I have with our child during the breaks. Our child is a 6th grade student at Denny and is ahead of their class and continues to receive A’s in all their classes. The reason: we value education, we see to it she understands and completes their homework and we are in regular communication with her teachers. It all starts at home people! Time after time one of their teachers has had to call the parents during class to ask why their child does not complete homework assignments. More than half of their classmates do not even do the homework and apparently have no support system at home. We also value family time and education and family time go hand in hand.

  Many students come from homes where English is a 2nd language but the homework is in English and if the student do not understand the work and have no one at home to assist them the child will fail as the teachers have too many students in every class to offer individual attention.

  One of their teachers has started sending home all projects completed and graded and asks for a parents signature so he/she knows someone at home has viewed the work and if the student received bad grades they can see where the problem is and help their child. The teachers have very little if not no contact with the parents.

  No, I do not agree that winter break, mid-winter or spring break should be eliminated or shortened. I do agree that the number of days where a 1 hour, 2 hour or 3 hour early dismissal should be shortened.

• GAnative January 31, 2012 (9:25 am)

  I hope they get the waiver! The last week of school is not used for class learning so why add 2 more days of field trips just to say the kids were in school for 180 days.

  Last year my 8th grader spent the last week of school taking a hike in Schmitz Park, walking to Alki and getting ice cream at Pepperdocks, going to a movie and going bowling. And my 5th grader wasn’t any better; between the 2 of them I think I signed 6 field trip forms for the last week of school.

• monroe1200 January 31, 2012 (9:53 am)

  Brian M — I actually worked everyday from 5am until 5pm shoveling snow for all the worker bees in the city, so I know what it’s like to work. Thanks though!

  Step-it-up parents — I stated that my kids would probably learn more with us for two days than sitting in a class cleaning desk and staring out the window. Good try though!

• GreatSoFar January 31, 2012 (11:28 am)

  WS Mama, then why send your kids to school?

  Step-it-up Parents, there are plenty of parents who care about their kids education, and send them to great public schools. Private schools don’t have monopoly on great teachers.

• roundthesound January 31, 2012 (12:18 pm)

  Private school teachers are not held to the same standards as public school teachers as far as credentials, education, experience, and they are usually paid less than public school teachers. It is the parents that make the difference. If you are spending $40,000 a year on your childs education you are going to make sure they do well in school.

  Cut out early dismissal to make up the hours, I can’t imagine that would cost that much since the teachers are already paid to be there and the schools are already open on those days.

• higgins January 31, 2012 (12:21 pm)

  I’m shocked that some people are pointing fingers at teachers as the ‘lazy ones’. As the daughter of a public school teacher, I can tell you that it is probably one of the hardest jobs out there. My mom would sometimes come home close to tears after an exhausting day of trying to teach kids who would show up completely unprepared for school, only to get yelled at by those kids’ parents for their poor performance. She was constantly being asked to not only do her job as a teacher, but as a parent as well. Nobody but a teacher will know just how difficult it is to not only control a room of 25 squirming adolescents for six hours a day, but to actually teach them something meaningful and valuable. She did that for 35 years. Parents might be fed up with public education, but I can guarantee you that many teachers are twice as fed up with unappreciative, demanding, and careless parents.

• sb January 31, 2012 (12:48 pm)

  My frustration is of the school board’s lack of integrity. My recollection is Seattle School District, along with many other districts, did not have inclement weather make-up plans a couple years ago when there was a significant December snow storm resulting in much deliberation about if and when the snow days would be made-up. The next year and subsequent years’ calendars include inclement weather make up day plans. At the first indication of snow days, I went to the Seattle School District website so as a family we could plan accordingly. From the Seattleschools.org site, “The calendar also provides specific dates that will be used as make-up days in the event that inclement weather necessitates school closures.” So to then learn on Jan 19th that the district was going to discuss how they were going to make up the days and now 12 days later are STILL discussing is frustrating.

  To add more frustration, this year the Seattle School District is emphasizing the importance of attendance.

  What a mixed message they are sending to kids.

• WTF January 31, 2012 (1:06 pm)

  Least “we” forget that education and learning begins at home and ends at home. So, sad to hear so many people looking outward instead of inward at their own front door. These kids aren’t going to get dumber by missing two days of in class instruction. How about, like Monroe1200 said, explore learning with your kids. Be creative. This city is packed with learning opportunities YOU can lead.
  @Higgins…right on! :)

• Lisa Y January 31, 2012 (1:50 pm)

  And from what we hear from kids as well as the teachers more classroom time each day is spent discipling students taking time away from their studies. Again, it starts at home.

• Aman January 31, 2012 (2:20 pm)

  My Mother (of six children of her own) had a saying. “It’s always easier to raise someone else’s kids.” She used to say it when ‘other people’ were commenting about some child and ‘how they or their parents should do this or that.’ This thread reminds me of my Mom’s saying.

• furor scribendi January 31, 2012 (3:34 pm)

  Monroe1200 – you seem to have all the answers! But your children probably don’t. As a school volunteer for about fifteen years, I see the benefit of even a day’s worth of learning to motivated students whose parents believe in what is being taught and are involved in their childrens’ education. Hint.

• monroe1200 January 31, 2012 (4:16 pm)

  furor scribendi – huh?!? You might want to re-read my original post, I am very clear that teachers and schools are important. What you must have missed is me stating that my children WILL be learning those days, just with the family, instead of his teachers. Don’t assume things, we all know what that does. Just to clear the air, my son is in the high 90 percent range in math, reading, science, and english in the Seattle School District. He has been accepted into the Sprectrum program and he is a leader in his class. It is sooo sad that I even had to go there with his credentials. Hint.

• Brian M. January 31, 2012 (4:33 pm)

  Monroe1200 – You are contradicting yourself! Which is it – you are not making up for work lost on snow days, or you worked from “5am until 5pm shoveling snow for all the worker bees in the city”?

  I can only hope that your children get as much education as they can, so they have options even greater than shoveling for others.

• wseavirgo January 31, 2012 (8:18 pm)

  Wow Brian M. That last sentence was really crappy.

• monroe1200 February 1, 2012 (6:56 am)

  Wow Brian M., way to stay classy!
  So you know, I am a Bulding Engineer, I make any where from 65,000.00 to $95,000.00 a year, depending on how much overtime I get for helping out with things like shoveling snow. I could only hope that my son has the decency to not put himself on a pedestal and think that manual labor is below him. These are the things we will be learning about on his two days off from school. Things like respect for other peoples thoughts and what people contribute to their communitys, like shoveling snow. To answer your question about me working, yes I did work those days, I was just speaking for the people that did not, which there was alot of. I am sorry that it was not broken down so that you could understand the meaning of what I was trying to say.

• Brian M. February 1, 2012 (7:31 am)

  Moneroe1200, I humbly apologize for offending you. I don’t think that manual labor is beneath me, as I have held many jobs like this. I just want my children to have more options than I did. I can only hope that education is one of the keys to giving them those options. I do my best at home, but I also value the work that our teachers put in.

• Step-it-Up Parents February 1, 2012 (9:01 am)

  Gee, From my admittedly limited sample, seems that parents and kids have really different interpretations of how engaged their parents are in their lives. Several friends of my kids love to come to our house and they say, because in their words – we seem to care about our kids and show it. I know that more than one kid (seems particularly those we know in public school) played video games and watched TV for the majority of 2 days during the snow (and much of other time). That particular child gets as much TV time and video time as they want, has a cell phone, etc – no parenting in that house and the parents rarely really talk with this kid. As a result, kids love to come to our house. English is not my 1st language and I only have a high school education. Maybe thats why I care so much. I want my kids to have it easier than I did. For those parents commenting — check that you are living what you say here in the blog. I know several kids whose parents are not. So a loss of 2 days of school, when added to the missed days for family vacations, apparently more than a day sick days, TV/Video/Cell distractions, and the lack of serious interaction is producing the kids that couldnt pass the citizenship test when graduating that I had to take to be a US citizen. DEMAND that you kids get an education.

• Lisa Y February 1, 2012 (10:37 am)

  Child’s teacher told the class he wanted to give them math packets for over the winter break but he felt bad about taking away fun time from them so no packets were sent home, so I printed out several math pages that were worked on during the break allowing wnough time for fun activities too. Once in middle school we surely thought that tons of homework would be brought home, no only a paper here and there and most consider reading homework because so many kids don’t like to read. We can’t take a book away from our vhild and wouldn’t want if we could they love to read.

  We really wish teachers would hand out homework. 5 minutes of homework once a week does not cut it. So we get books, let htme use the computer for math game (they are monitored they are not playing video games).

Sorry, comment time is over.