Triangle meeting #2: Facing the “gorilla” – & businesses’ concerns

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

When the city-convened West Seattle Triangle Advisory Group gathered for its first meeting (WSB coverage here), developer Denny Onslow of Harbor Properties pronounced Triangle parking “the 500-pound gorilla in the room”: It wasn’t on the official agenda, but it was on almost everyone’s mind.

When the group gathered again this past Wednesday night at the Senior Center of West Seattle for meeting #2, the “gorilla” was at centerstage, with four potential Triangle “streetscape” concepts presented, each one including information on how it would affect the area’s street-parking inventory.

The other major headline from the meeting: While local property owner and advisory-group member Steve Huling wasn’t in attendance this time, several other Triangle business and property owners were represented in the audience, including Alki Lumber, Tom’s Automotive and Doyle’s Automotive.

Their concerns and what happens next – as the story continues:

“This process is not meant to make change happen immediately,” city planner Susan McLain stressed.

Nonetheless, the mere discussion of change clearly raised a lot of questions for some of the business owners on hand, several of whom noted that their businesses had been in The Triangle for decades.

“Your plans are pretty,” said Judy Sweeney from Alki Lumber, “but I don’t think they work … you have to remember, it’s a working neighborhood. … (We have) large lumber trucks, delivery trucks, UPS trucks. This is not a gentle place. … The company’s been in the neighborhood for 80 years and it’s not going away soon … you guys are not thinking about that.”

She and other business owners commented after the “streetscape” concepts were discussed – so let’s backtrack to that.

As shown by architect David Hewitt, who is a consultant for the Triangle planning process, the four concepts’ most memorable discerning feature was the amount of parking – from one that would keep the number of street spaces in The Triangle the same as now, 235, to another that would create as many new spaces as possible, resulting in 390 on the street. Creating more spaces would require more back-in angle parking, as Hewitt explained – though that would be reserved for the 80-foot-wide streets.

Other “streetscape” aspects included a discussion of the future of the surrounding arterials. For nearby Avalon Way, one of its major roles is as a “key connection” for bicyclists – so when the RapidRide bus line starts up, according to SDOT‘s Casey Hildreth, it’ll have a bikes-only climbing lane, though bicyclists will share a lane with transit going downhill. SW Alaska, on the southern edge of The Triangle, will devote its outer lanes to transit (including RapidRide), so there won’t be street parking there (or on the westbound/uphill outside lane of Avalon). Committee member Brandon Nicholson, an architect/developer, noted that The Triangle has “fairly generous rights-of-way, compared to other parts of the city, and that’s why we have opportunities.” Here’s the RapidRide West Seattle route map:

The potential RR-related loss of parking on SW Alaska was alarming to another business owner in attendance, Dr. Terrill Harrington of My Family Doctor/West Seattle Convenient Care (WSB sponsor). “Taking away parking would hurt us – we have five medical partners in the building, and we’re all wondering what’s going to happen to us.” He says their building at 3623 SW Alaska already has to deal with frequent parking challenges, and they’ve even had to call for tow trucks for “park-and-hiders” who drive to The Triangle to catch buses and try to leave their vehicles in business parking lots all day.

Dr. Harrington suggested the city and committee should place a higher priority on the workers who already are in The Triangle, rather than the residents and businesspeople who might be there in the future, or people who might come from elsewhere to shop/dine in the district. “The more (parking, etc.) you take away, the more we are going to have another one of those bland, repetitive communities, lots of apartments, lots of bars, lots of restaurants, not much flavor … When I pass that lumberyard (Alki Lumber) it makes me happy. I am from Chicago, where I always used to get up every day and see hard-working people. I’m happy to see people go to the YMCA (also) – people park in front of my office and run over for 30 minutes to work out.” He noted that he’s one of the “few general practitioners left (in West Seattle).”

Kandie Jennings from Tom’s Automotive also voiced parking concerns, as well as fears that vehicle access to their business might be impaired by some of the streetscape plans. “Our intention is that access is available,” Hewitt reassured her, “but the issue might be more, how close is on-street parking.”

Jennings reminded him, “Parking’s an issue for all of us.”

But Hewitt noted that comments from the advisory group and others will “form a program … ideas that can lead to a framework,” in this case, “how are we going to handle parking?”

We don’t yet have a high-resolution version of the sketches for the four concepts (expected later today, and we will add them to this story when they come in), but they’re variations on what you see above. The “maximum parking” vision, adding 155 street spaces to the existing 235, “has a lot going for it,” said Hewitt. Not just the parking increase itself, but also the way it’s laid out – with street trees in islands “every fourth car, so you see the trees” more than the cars, as he described it: “A much-greener vision of the street.”

The fourth scheme, which would keep the 235 spaces but “redistribute (them),” would also include “some really intense plantings on some (of the) streets, including a continuous row of street trees and 12-foot-wide sidewalks.”

The more-pedestrian-oriented streets, suggested advisory-group member/pedestrian activist-advocate Chas Redmond, “should be the ones with the canyons” – in other words, the ones slated for eventual development up to 65 feet, where buildings of that height might line both sides of the street.

However it plays out, said Hewitt, “Our bias on this is (for the) traffic in The Triangle to be slower-paced, period … almost like a refuge you come into, and then find where you are going.”

One key point he mentioned: Right now, they’re not considering one-way streets. “They tend to be confusing,” he explained, while offering the caveat that since it’s so early in the process, they’re “not ruling them out, of course.” How about undergrounding utilities? someone asked. “Might be a possibility – aesthetically, that would be a home run,” Hewitt enthused. “You don’t realize the impact of wires till they’re gone.”

Speaking of impact, Harbor’s Onslow was asked about the residents who will start moving into his company’s Link, now under construction along 38th SW, next year. They wanted clarification on how many parking spaces the building would provide. Eight-tenths of a space per unit, he replied, which meets city code. Where’s everyone else going to park? someone asked. Nicholson, who works on projects outside West Seattle (as does Harbor) as well as inside, jumped in to say that even in more-parking-challenged parts of the city, projects that got permits with as few as six-tenths of a space per unit “aren’t filling their garages.”

McLain tried to steer the conversation to other issues, reminding everyone that a separate meeting would be scheduled specifically to discuss parking, but it remained the large-looming issue, though pedestrian concerns resurfaced – Sharonn Meeks, president of the south-of-Triangle-based Fairmount Community Association, said SW Alaska needs “more than one spot for safe north-south passage” across the road, to facilitate use by people including those living in her area’s 200+ homes. McLain said the pedestrian issue will be addressed in the report(s) that result from this planning process.

Cutting to the proverbial chase, Josh Sutton from the Triangle-headquartered West Seattle Family YMCA (WSB sponsor) asked, “So, how do we get from here to (one of the four streetscape scenarios)?”

Nicholson said it’ll happen as developments happen – he pointed out the metamorphosis of Queen Anne as one example.

“So what about right now, while RapidRide is being developed?” Sutton pressed. “It’ll cannibalize parking, but isn’t likely to change the streetscape?”

SDOT’s Hildreth interjected that the RapidRide plan for West Seattle is only at “30 percent design” currently, and while the current plan is indeed to “take curb lanes away from parking and make transit lanes,” he said this is a prime time to voice some of these concerns and ideas as part of the process, which he said will be picking up later this year. (More specifically, Redmond said his understanding from the county is that RapidRide planning is expected “to pick up in August.”)

“So,” Sutton summarized, “parking pressure on Alaska will be increased because RapidRide will take away all the street parking.”

“It’s not a done deal but that is the current thinking,” acknowledged Hildreth, adding: “This is a great chance to look at what the neighborhood needs.”

The county has said it will not revisit the RapidRide routing issue in The Triangle, which the Southwest District Council sought to reopen earlier this year (WSB coverage here), but Jon Hartog from Doyle’s Automotive said he wished they would. He said he’s buying the circa-1975 business from his parents and foresees staying in The Triangle, but thinks RapidRide should run along Fauntleroy, not Alaska.

After other business owners made their points about parking, as did two area residents, including Joan Jeffrey, who lives in a condo building at 35th and Alaska, Kandie Jennings asked how the advisory-group members were chosen – “None of us small businesses (from The Triangle) are represented,” she observed. (The Triangle business reps are YMCA’s Sutton, Harbor Properties’ Onslow, and property owner Huling.) Fairmount’s Meeks said she’d suggested that kind of representation. “It’s not a perfect process,” agreed McLain, who said she had “facilitated” putting together the group.

At that point, Onslow offered that he’s glad the city, with advocacy from West Seattle-residing Councilmember Tom Rasmussen (who’s taken an interest in Triangle planning preludes over the past few years), is funding the planning process.

Others agreed, and voiced hope that other issues would be discussed as well as parking. From Meeks: “I hope the 500-pound gorilla is only the 250-pound gorilla – I didn’t move here to live in the suburbs.”

McLain promised land-use issues would be on the next agenda; the group meets again May 12th, then June 9th, and beyond that, she’s not sure whether this will be a four-meeting process or more. (Those meetings, like the previous two, will start at 6 pm at the Senior Center, California/Alaska.)

Two more links of potential interest in addition to those in our article: This city webpage has agendas, notes and other materials from these meetings; archived WSB coverage of Triangle news can be found here.

10 Replies to "Triangle meeting #2: Facing the "gorilla" - & businesses' concerns"

  • DW April 19, 2010 (1:40 pm)

    It’s not the most popular opinion, but I’ve never been clear as to why most land-use and development meetings put so much emphasis on bike transit. This is something that a small minority of the population takes advantage of and yet it gets the same prominence as car and bus commuting.

  • Zgh2676 April 19, 2010 (2:13 pm)

    I’m new to the area, so forgive me if this has been covered, but isn’t mcGinn pushing for light rail to west Seattle? Wouldn’t this solve the rapid ride/parking issue?

  • MichaelM April 19, 2010 (4:50 pm)

    It will be interesting to see which businesses are forward-thinking in this process. No matter what happens by the city of Seattle government, change is on the way. This area is too centrally located in West Seattle to stay the same forever. Alki Lumber is great and I hope it sticks around, but their properties are an eyesore. That business can and should embrace some change, be a better neighbor, and still stay alive as a business.

  • kathleen April 19, 2010 (7:37 pm)

    Light rail will only make the parking situation worse, because people will drive to the line and park in the street. Businesses will starve if there is no room for their customers.

  • triangle resident April 20, 2010 (1:02 pm)

    Let’s take another look at what could be added to this planning effort. The Whole Foods site, especially in it’s current state would make an excellent location to relocate the YMCA. Underground parking, room for a state of the art YMCA facility, anchor the gateway with family and community activity. Our Y is overdue for major changes such as seperate pools for laps and children’s swim lessons. Traffic calming on our major arterial, the Y stays in it’s current location without disruption, much need community meeting space and the gorilla of parking is substantially relieved. Think long term people.

  • wseadawg April 20, 2010 (2:57 pm)

    Wow, triangle resident. That is an amazing idea. I cannot see how the Y doesn’t suffer massively in its current location. Let’s face it, the folks who use the Y are not able to embrace all the alternative transportation options, as so many have kids in tow and are already pinched in so many ways. Parking is so tough at the Y already, I can’t see how folks will manage in the future. I’m seeing a Dale Turner (Shoreline) style Y on that spot and it would be awesome. Let’s push the idea!

  • Daria April 20, 2010 (5:48 pm)

    Wow, triangle resident and wseadawg. Why don’t you trot on over to the owner of the Hole Foods Site and sell them on this idea. Good luck. Not to rain on your parade, but let’s be realistic people.

    Also, why do we continue to allow cars to park all day in the triangle? That commuter parking is just stealing spaces from businesses and the Y.

  • Triangle Resident April 20, 2010 (7:54 pm)

    Daria, it’s a planning effort, not a hostile take over.

  • 1909 Craftsman April 20, 2010 (9:22 pm)

    Ironically, planners want to slow traffic down. Some of us just want to get the hell through the intersection before it’s time to shave again.

    Traffic has to MOVE! Otherwise, WS will be another NEW YORK. Stagnant, dirty and full of air pollution.

    Do these dumb fools even read about places where this 15 mph traffic crap doesn’t work??? Where people die because the aid car takes 25 minutes to get 15 blocks???

  • Zgh2676 April 21, 2010 (1:15 pm)

    As far as parking goes it seems to me if you have to drive to the triangle only then it is a problem. This may be wishful thinking at best, but what if there were 2 streetcar lines. One along California from the admiral district down just past the Morgan Jumction and another down 35th from the triangle to around where 35th meets Roxbury. A substantial amount of people could leave their cars home and make their way around west Seattle and to the areas where most local business is done. The hub could be where the “Hole Foods” is. The space underneath the hub could be used for potential future light rail expansion to downtown. This eliminates the parking in one clustered area and spreads it out along the entire streetcar line which acts as extended access points for public transit and local business. Greener city, less parking problems (which will always be around in a major metropolitan area to some degree), and a more pedestrian friendly environment. I mean, why not take advantage of the fact that our current mayor is on board with this type of stuff already?

Sorry, comment time is over.