61 Replies to "Recycling changes bring wildlife woes: WSB'er seeks advice"

• Ken June 21, 2009 (1:35 pm)

  We’ve been keeping ours inside so far, but we’re starting to see fruit flies so we’ve moved it outside. But I’ve been wondering about the rodent problem myself.

  Figuring out a way to secure the lid would be the best way that comes to mind.

• Ken June 21, 2009 (1:36 pm)

  There must be at least a few other people in the city with the same concerns… maybe we can post this question on some of the other neighborhood blogs, and ask the relevant city department directly…

• derek June 21, 2009 (1:51 pm)

  we haven’t noticed any marked rodent activity, but we have noted a huge increase in the crow population on our street and an accompanying change in their behavior. Three times in a week we noticed them harassing fly-by bald eagles. It would be interesting to know if anyone tracks the population numbers.

  I wouldn’t want to see this slow down Seattle’s aggressive solid waste reduction plan. There’s got to be a good way to deal with it.

• westwoodmom June 21, 2009 (1:54 pm)

  Now that we can compost bones, meat, dairy, I try to fill up a bag in the freezer until pickup day, then toss the frozen items in last thing to minimize the smell/rodent attraction.

• Karl June 21, 2009 (1:55 pm)

  Happily reporting no new or increased frequency of scavengers. Lid secure and kitties on patrol.

• Huindekmi June 21, 2009 (1:58 pm)

  Are the people with the rodent problem using the smaller yard waste containers? We’ve stuck with our old, big one and have seen no problems. It might be a timing thing. Pickup is on Monday. Food scraps throughout the week tend to be down deep in the bottom of this gigantic container, then covered with the weekend’s yard work for pickup the next day. If we were putting scraps on top of the piles of grass, where they’d be more accessible, maybe there would be a problem.

• Mark June 21, 2009 (2:14 pm)

  I live on 39th in Admiral and have seen a HUGE increase in the number of crows. I hadn’t made the connection with the new yard waste rules but it does make sense.

• JJ June 21, 2009 (2:28 pm)

  We live in a pretty heavily-wood area of West Seattle, with plenty of raccoons and other critters. The lid on our food compost container stays closed/latched and we haven’t seen any increase in scavengers.

• Sandra June 21, 2009 (2:45 pm)

  The crows have been invading my neighborhood for years now. They scare pet dogs and cats. They eat song birds. I really don’t think our new clean green program has much to do with the crow infestation in Seattle.

• Grazer June 21, 2009 (3:13 pm)

  Are the critters able to open the lids? Try putting a heavy item on the top so that no creature can get in. This helped with raccoon issues in the past for me. As for the crows, we have one of the highest crow population in the country, I believe we’re # 3 on the list. This time of year the crows are more aggressive due to the fact that they are protecting their chicks. As for the song birds being eaten I think this has been going on for centuries. The problem is not the crows it’s the domestic felines everyone allows to roam freely. Biologists have called for the control of these cats as they really represent a threat to the survival of certain species of birds, Every cat should have a bell around it’s neck or be kept inside in order to keep some balance in nature.

• Ex-Westwood Resident June 21, 2009 (3:22 pm)

  Don’t you guys know what is going on???
  Mayor ‘It’s your’ Nickles ‘not mine’ is providing a vital service by having the recycling rules changed to include all food scraps. He is providing food for the smallest of animals and insects. PETA is applauding the move. Afterall rats and other rodents are feeling animals that need a chance to survive also.
  Nevermind that rats and rodents are responsible for the greatest plagues of mankind.
  If Mayor McBrainless would somehow get a clue he might be worth something.
  Sorry Sandra, crows, rats and other scavangers ALWAYS gather where food is plentiful and EASY to get.

• WSB June 21, 2009 (3:23 pm)

  I know we have at least one crow expert in WSB’land but I hope she and her family are off having a nice Father’s Day, maybe they’ll see this later. In the meantime, somewhat separate from the O/T, the bird population is out of balance overall. Our backyard is overrun with house sparrows. I was startled to learn in research that they are ruthless in attacking other species and taking over nesting boxes. We also have Steller’s jays, robins, black-capped chickadees, hummingbirds, bushtits, flickers and pileated woodpeckers in the overgrowth, so it hasn’t all gone to heck … the crows aren’t seen in our overgrown yard much – just out on the street. As for felines, there hasn’t been an outdoor cat in my family in 40+ years. Ours sit by the screen door and growl menacingly at the occasional intruder that dares to invade the yard … TR

• Tim June 21, 2009 (3:34 pm)

  Look it up – #1 killer of neighborhood birds is cats. #2 is windows. Not crows.

  Best solution (even recommended by the city) is freezing the scraps. I have had worm bins for compost for years, and even with diligently watching for only veggie scraps, rats always eventually appear. It is a city, after all.

  By the way, rats love cat food and kitty doors too. Ask the guys at True Value – they can squeeze through an opening less than a penny in size.

  Bring back the coyotes!

• BigRed June 21, 2009 (4:02 pm)

  The easy thing to to is—- put a large container with a lid in the fridge….fill…. night before pick-up, or the morning of, empty the container into lawn waste. DONE. No extra unwanted pests.

• pam June 21, 2009 (4:07 pm)

  It’s ridiculous to have to save your ‘trash’ in the fridge. And having to rinse and wash my yard waste container each week is getting old already. Lots more flies over my large yard waste container and an increase in ants I’ve noticed. We should be paid for all the ‘overtime’ we’re putting in to separating all our garbage.

• Diana June 21, 2009 (4:09 pm)

  Seattle Audubon is a great resource for information: http://www.seattleaudubon.org. This is the breeding and birthing season for many critters so you may be seeing more activity right now. It’s easy to save your food scraps by freezing them and then tossing them into the bin the day before your pick up. Rats may be coming from other areas.Invasive ivy is a great breeding ground for them as well as over grown vegetation. Our recycling program is really working and we all should support it.

• BigRed June 21, 2009 (4:13 pm)

  Really? Hard to wash a container? It’s really not “trash” it’s leftovers. I personally am very happy with the increase in food scrap collection. The amount of REAL “trash” that I put out on the curb has been substantially reduced!

• Jo June 21, 2009 (4:24 pm)

  For me, one of the scariest movies of all time: Alfred Hitchcock’s “The Birds.”
  Those crows sitting on the telephone wires and rooftops and fences…watching everyone walk by. Just sitting there …watching..watching…watching and waiting.

  Yikes. I’ve scared myself now.

• Melissa June 21, 2009 (4:43 pm)

  I’ve seen no increase in fruit flies (but we have always put out tons of veggie/fruit waste) nor in critters. I sprinkle a little baking soda on the yard waste and put a little dish of cider vinegar and dish soap (fruit fly magnet!) out at the first sign of a fruit fly. I’m tickled pink that we’re putting less stuff into the landfills and hope others figure out a way to make the change workable for them.

• TDe June 21, 2009 (5:06 pm)

  Side note on crows – Crows are fledging their young right now… teaching them how to fly… so it looks and sounds like there’s more than ususal. Their young are very vulnerable during this time and the parents will go after anyone or any animal close to their young. Usually happens in late May – it’s a little later this year. The crows will calm down in a couple of weeks.

  As far as food trash… We put the food in the freezer and Sunday night or Monday morning dump it into the bin. No critter problems…

• Jane June 21, 2009 (5:11 pm)

  All of the above comments that contain suggestions for containing food scraps are great ideas for LJ to implement. What I hear in her comments, though, is a tougher issue: how to change the behavior of whichever neighbors who aren’t taking the time and care to keep their scraps away from crows and rodents. I wish I had a good answer – I did leave a note for one neighbor when I could see their compost bin on it’s side but I don’t think it did any good. Any ideas for that issue?

• Dis June 21, 2009 (5:11 pm)

  Question for Melissa: the dish of cider vinegar and dish soap, do the fruit flies just drop into it and die? do you mix up the vinegar and dish soap, 50/50?

• onceachef June 21, 2009 (5:12 pm)

  Although I expected this might happen (to our recycling/neighborhood) I haven’t seen a big increase in rat or crow activity. I use recyclable, compostable “bags” I got from Cedar Grove – they came with the bin I bought (a small under the counter recycled plastic bin). I also usually have a bit or a lot of “green” in my bin. But the bags probably keep some of the odor from getting out…you can try these (available at some groceries (like Thriftway on California) or others I’m sure (PCC comes to mind)…otherwise, rocks on top of the bin may keep them out or trapping them will also work.

• mike June 21, 2009 (6:14 pm)

  The only one that attracts rodents and birds around our area is the neighbor who’s too lazy to close the lid on his garbage can. We find his garbage thrown around the alley every day and white plastic bags torn open. I don’t think they even use the yard waste bin at all.

  They only rat I see is my neighbor.

• Babs June 21, 2009 (6:32 pm)

  People People. I would rather hear about this topic in the news over fast driving, gun carrying thugs in the hood. :)
  Crows, rats, food waste….we all have to get along and do our part. Crows are opportunists and a bin with mixed food waste is 5 star dining for them…rats yes. I put my food waste in small plastic bags in the freezer and try to get it out on pickup day, it comes right out of the bag.
  -from a crow lover on Avalon.

• Save Our Streets Seattle June 21, 2009 (7:30 pm)

  I agree with Mike above. MOST all of the scavenger and crow problems on our Highland Pk area are from lazy people who don’t secure the lid to the trash/garbage can. I recently downsized to a micro-can which even I can’t open, so I’m not worried about birds. People, keep your lids on TIGHT.

  Also, Waste Management may want to do a little quality control. Their drivers are responsible (or irresponsible) for the remaining “free-range” refuse on our block. When their automated dumping machines allow a few pieces of food-soiled paper (per house) to escape the big (LOUD!) bin and the drivers just leave litter there, then it accumulates and becomes a large swirling mass of bits of trash from each house on the block.

  A Waste Management driver HIT and RAN my landscaping on Friday evening. He dragged a 200 pound boulder about 5 feet and didn’t stop to check for (the extensive) damage. As soon as I hear back from SPU or WM, I’ll let you now what they say.

• Jim Clark June 21, 2009 (7:38 pm)

  No increase in critters but we did have a maggot infestation in and on our large recycle bib last week. Talk about creapy

  Jim

• Sue June 21, 2009 (7:46 pm)

  We use a compost bin in the house that holds BioBags, and then when it’s full we tie it closed and throw it in the outside bin. Because our food waste is in its own bag, it does not soil the yard waste container, and we haven’t had any problems with critters.

• old timer June 21, 2009 (7:46 pm)

  I wish the government would stay the heck out of my garbage.
  I have recycled since it was offered, yard waste every pick-up, but garbage is, and will remain, garbage.
  Maybe some of you have space and high tolerance for crap in your refrigerator and/or freezer, but I do not.

  I’ll be damned if I’m going to put food waste anywhere except in the garbage. Damn away, ’cause I do not care.

• celeste17 June 21, 2009 (8:00 pm)

  I have problems with flies
  Every time I open my door I see them. I just started using the green bags and I am going to wash the can tomorrow after its picked up. I hope this will help.

• Joey June 21, 2009 (8:01 pm)

  Another “feel good” government/green program that creates havoc.

  Use your freezer? Waste of electricity!

  Wash out the bins? Waste of water!

  More trucks picking up your trash? CO2!

  Use your garbage like you use to? Sane!

  PS. Did you know that the lifetime carbon footprint of a prius is greater than that of a Ford Explorer? Gosh.

• living in west seattle since 1985 June 21, 2009 (8:04 pm)

  Ask for one of the HUGE yard waist bins that is as big as a paper recycling bin. It is on wheels and has a good heavy lid. Its nice because I keep our yard waist bin outside and put a big rock ontop of the lid each night. It is a bit of an over kill for the amount of scraps we put out, but it keeps the mice, crows and lord knows what else out of our “trash”.

• JumboJim June 21, 2009 (8:15 pm)

  Joey

  Freezer? Aready running. No extra use happening.
  Wash out bins? Rarely need to.
  More trucks? No. There’s no more trash than last year. Just sorted diferently.
  Use your garbage like before? Keep that head in the sand Joey….

• Bonnie June 21, 2009 (8:28 pm)

  That’s funny. Now that you mention it our cats have been catching rodents and they used to be just too lazy to catch anything. We’ve found 2 this past week killed and brought to our back porch. Hmmm…. I mean, we’ve had the cats for years and never had them catch anything. Until now.

• Jen June 21, 2009 (9:06 pm)

  Our garbage can is lidless at the moment. We’ve lost several lids (I think this is our third), usually blown away on windy collection days when the lids are not secured. We can’t seem to find just the lids for sale anywhere, so have ended up buying a new can each time, which also seems wasteful. Anyone know of a garbage can lid graveyard around anywhere?

• LJ June 21, 2009 (9:30 pm)

  LJ here. I guess my point was that this new recycling is great provided EVERYONE is responsible. The city has now given a lot of responsibility to the citizens and lets face it many of them can not deal with it and are probably not reading this blog. None of the food scraps I found in my fountain came out of my container, and it seems to me that most readers here have also found ways to responsibly deal with the new rules. I guess there needs to be idiot proof containers issued?? I do not know, but if enough people are thinking about it maybe we can watch over our careless neighbors? I know, it is not really our job. I too love not having much trash and am a huge supporter of recycling, but the destruction and potential for disease that comes with the scavengers is also an important issue. There must be a happy medium.

• KB June 21, 2009 (11:26 pm)

  I’m actually having less of an issue now. My problem was always with raccoons, who managed to get the (always securely latched) lid off my trash. Now that all of my food scraps are in my yard waste container (I have one of the large, recycle container sized ones), they can’t get at it. And they leave my trash alone too.

• kelsey June 22, 2009 (7:47 am)

  Just weeks after this new composting started we actually had redents chew their way into our new small compsting container. They got on top of the container and chewed threw one of the corners. After getting a replacement we have not had a problem yet. But watch out for those rats, if they want they can chew into the cans!

• Melissa June 22, 2009 (8:12 am)

  Dis,
  The fruit fly recipe is a few tablespoons of cider vinager and a dash of dish soap in a little bowl. You don’t need much soap, just enough to ruin the surface tension of the vinegar. The fruit flies are drawn to the smell of the vinegar, fall in, and drown. It’s so satisfying and effective. Try not to get any cider vinegar on the edges of the bowl, though; the flies’ll perch there and not drown. Good luck on whacking the nasty little things1 I’m not normally destructive, but I reserve a special vicious place in my heart for these little critters.

• KatHP June 22, 2009 (8:17 am)

  I haven’t noticed an increase in rodents but unfortunately I suspect that will change soon, as our neighbors frequently leave their trash/compost uncovered and it ends up strewn all over our street/driveway. Friendly reminders from us don’t help, only cause them to roll their eyes.

  We’ve seen chew marks on the side of the lid of our small green food scrap bin; we know the squirrels are working on this container just as they do our trash can lid. It has never been an issue of us securing our lids, always an issue of the animals chewing through them. We use Deer-Off spray (available at Home Depot and other places) and it seems to help but you need to frequently re-apply, especially if it rains.

• Catherine June 22, 2009 (8:42 am)

  We park our cars outside, on an ally, near our bins. We actually had a rat living in our mini van. It took twelve days to get rid of it (amazing what you’ll get used to). The gentlemen who service our car and first noticed droppings in the engine (Harrahs, highly recommend them) and the gentleman who detailed the inside (Auto Buff, also recommended) as we attempted to clean, set traps, clean, set traps, clean…. mentioned that they have seen an increase in mouse and rat car invasions. Perhaps this information is helpful in determining rodent activity.

• paul June 22, 2009 (8:56 am)

  Waste Management has always been an issue for me. The drivers in our area are finally being responsible with the cans, but they do regularly leave overspill in the street. For everyone, just be glad you are not living outside the city limits, the billing for the exact same service is almost 100.00 a month….

• TeresaP June 22, 2009 (9:10 am)

  I tried using our food recycle ONCE. Within 24 hours of putting a small amount of food in it, I found a hole and huge scratch marks on the top if mine. Those containers are pretty tough but not tough enough for whatever wanted in mine. My first guess was racoons but I thought they would have been smart enough to turn it over and open it. The very thought of rats doing that creeped me out.
  For me it is simple, I rarely use it. Maggots, fruit flies, freezing garbage??? Not happening in my house.

• Chris June 22, 2009 (9:39 am)

  This much hemming and hawing over composting? really? Secure your lid so the critters can’t get in. Problem solved.

• SEG June 22, 2009 (10:03 am)

  I dont know if its the lack of rain or the compost bins, but I have seen so many rats this last month on my daily walks. Yuck!

• KBear June 22, 2009 (10:05 am)

  So before dinner, it’s delicious food, good enough to be on the dinner table, and after dinner, that same food that is left over is too disgusting to be put in the freezer? Huh??

• Eddie June 22, 2009 (10:38 am)

  Trader Joes. (who could believe there are 46 comments and not one mention of TJ’s)

  *****************
  I can’t imagine that rodents, et al are getting into the small green composte/yard waste containers. That locking mechanism is so substantial that I can barely get it unlocked.

• OP June 22, 2009 (10:41 am)

  LOL. The unintended consequences of being “green”—an increase in critters. File under: We Who Were Against Forced Composting, Told You So.

• Buddsmom June 22, 2009 (11:15 am)

  We haven’t seen any rodents as of yet, but now have a problem with ants and house flies big enough to qualify for their own zip code! The ants have become an issue as they are coming in the house. The flies however, keep the cats entertained for hours!

• WSB June 22, 2009 (11:17 am)

  This is our second year with the ants so I doubt they are trash-related. I do think they’re just taking over the world in general. We have had to rearrange our entire small kitchen to deal with their preferences (and avoiding playing to them).

• margaritavilla June 22, 2009 (11:55 am)

  If you are missing a lid to your trash can, contact the city and they will deliver a new lid (or new can). Part of the service includes providing the container to put the trash in.

• datamuse June 22, 2009 (12:28 pm)

  PS. Did you know that the lifetime carbon footprint of a prius is greater than that of a Ford Explorer? Gosh.

  That’s debatable.

• Save Our Streets Seattle June 22, 2009 (12:35 pm)

  If you’d like to see a 25 ton Waste Management driver drive through my yard and drag a 200+ pound landscaping stone 5 feet depositing it in a busy street, look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKkxJgu6wUY
  Irresponsible? Yes! Criminal? I think so. He didn’t know WHAT he hit, but he KNEW he hit something BIG, but he just kept on going!

• Save Our Streets Seattle June 22, 2009 (12:35 pm)

  OOOps! The truck was 25 tons, not the driver. :-)

• owen June 22, 2009 (1:27 pm)

  Honest question – why would there be more scavengers with meat scraps in the yard waste container than meast scraps in the trash? Both are plastic containers emptied weekly.

  Only things I can think of are that 1) trash is often in a plastic bag first so there’s less residue in the bin itself, and 2) the trash lid is a little tighter than the yard waste lid. Am I missing something else?

  We had a slight problem with flies from residue build up, so I started putting down a couple pages of newsprint before filling the yard waste container and that has really helped.

• Roadsterboy June 22, 2009 (4:47 pm)

  Datamuse, you’re right, the question is debatable, but we must be careful whose information and data we rely upon. CNW has a strong rebuttal to the Pacific Institute at http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Response%20to%20Pacific%20Institute.pdf and, after reading the relevant documents and researching both organizations, I’m…shall we say…unconvinced of the Pacific Institute’s impartiality or knowledge of the data. It’s great to find an opinion that agrees with what you hoped the answer to be, but that may not be the end of the story. I think hybrids are great, but have some concerns about their big picture impact on the environment.

• Roadsterboy June 22, 2009 (4:54 pm)

  Frankly, I have more problem with the crows eating my vegetable garden than I do with them bothering my yard/food waste bin. And, since I convinced the neighbors to keep lids on their garbage/food waste containers, the rodent/crow problem has actually decreased quite a bit. The Waste Management drivers are still a bit sloppy, though, and a call to the city about that was a waste of my time.

• mrsB June 22, 2009 (5:11 pm)

  We keep a very small food scraps bin on the kitchen counter whic is emptied daily onto a couple of sheets of newspaper, then wrapped well and put in with yard waste. No odor, no flies, no rodents, no mess, no fuss, NO PROBLEMS!

• Sandra June 22, 2009 (7:07 pm)

  Wow — lots of blog comments here!!

  re: Food scrap tips

  We’ve experimented with various ways of storing food scraps in the kitchen. Here are some things that cut down the kitchen scrap residue and ‘aroma’:

  1) interspercing food scraps with shredded paper and fresh yard clippings
  2) sprinkling baking soda on scraps
  3) lining the bottom of our container with used envelopes, junk mail or old newspapers
  4) having a nice, durable plastic food scrap container with an air tight yet easy-to-lift lid… got ours cheap at a restaurant supply store!!
  5) sprinkling layers of coffee grounds onto food scraps before adding new layers of scraps
  6) we plan to buy a smaller food scrap container for summer months, when more frequent trips to the outdoor clean green container are warranted!!

• Sandra June 22, 2009 (7:27 pm)

  Melissa, thank you for the fruit fly tips! Old Timer and Joey, I think you both are misguided. BigRed and JumboJim, I hear ya, buddies!
  .
  I love our clean green program. We’ve switched to a tiny micro garbage can since food scraps are now diverted to the clean green container. It’s more difficult for any critters to reach our food scraps, now that they’re intersperced with thick layers of yard waste and shredded papers.
  .
  Clueless neighbors: I would say that the biggest attraction for crows or rats is neighbors who leave pet food in bowls outside, or neighbors who actually feed the crows. My neighbor feeds the crows. Ironically, she has 3 cats who are horrified by the crows.
  .
  Crow invasion: If you google “crow invasion” you’ll see that the colder, northern parts of the country are seeing huge increases in crow populations. I’ve seen eagles being harassed by gangs of 20 or more crows. The crows are loud enough to wake the dead. They make so much noise in the morning that people nearby cannot possibly sleep-in after 5:30 or 6am (during summer months when windows are open). I’ve seen a crow snatch a song bird then drop it onto the pavement in order to break its neck before feasting on the carcass. My mother has witnessed a crow cruelly wounding a rabbit and then snatching and eating it’s baby. The mother rabbit was left with a furless, bloody, gaping open wound on her back. Crows are no friend of mine…

• TeresaP June 23, 2009 (7:56 am)

  I have heard that crows do not like to see one of their own dead. I have a friend who handcrafted a crow out of tin foil, painted it black and hung it upside down from his house. He claims the crows went away. Sounds crazy to me but you never know. I have always had many crows in my area, I guess I am just used to them. They do leave strage things in the bird bath though….

Sorry, comment time is over.