West Seattle snow and ice: Monday night updates

(Taken from the curb in front of Rite-Aid on California around 8:30 pm)
Starting a new post, about what’s happening tonight but mostly looking ahead to tomorrow. For starters, we just got word that Holy Rosary School will start at 10 am tomorrow. Also, Our Lady of Guadalupe will start at 10:30. More to come.

8:33 PM UPDATE: Just back from downtown. If you haven’t been there since the snow – it’s stunning how little evidence of it can be found there. A few ice crystals on the steps from the parking lot to Town Hall; otherwise, the bone-chilling cold air is all West Seattle seems to have in common with the heart of the city. (Separate report later on the Viaduct forum we went there to cover.) Took a longer way home just to survey some of the main streets – Bridge fine, Admiral hill to California fine, California all the way home, fine in the lanes, iced in the turn lane, and the side streets all look like some variation of this:

That’s the California end of SW Southern (map), which opens wide like a delta of sorts for some reason that probably made sense back when all this was getting graded in the first half of the last century.

9:11 PM UPDATE: Particularly for those who just don’t read comments, we have to share this: Roger looked into possible reasons for aforementioned “delta” – and discovered there was a streetcar route in the area (we’d never heard they went that far up the hill) – here’s the 1941 map he found. Meantime, we also wanted to share our photo of the Thriftway parking lot at the bottom of the hill — a little ice around the parking spaces but the driving lanes are in good shape (unlike at least one business parking lot we passed moments earlier – 7-11 at Erskine/California):

Metro bus riders – The “adverse weather” page notes that it will be updated for Tuesday after 4:30 am.

9:25 PM UPDATE: The new “forecast discussion” just appeared, from the National Weather Service. They suspect two more rounds of snow are en route:

MODIFIED ARCTIC AIR WILL CONTINUE TO FLOW INTO WESTERN WASHINGTON TONIGHT. … A FRONTAL SYSTEM WILL BRING MORE SNOW WEDNESDAY. COLD WEATHER WILL CONTINUE TO GRIP THE REGION ALL WEEK WITH ANOTHER CHANCE OF LOWLAND SNOW OVER THE WEEKEND.

10:12 PM UPDATE: A few more school notes: Hope Lutheran will start at 10:30 am tomorrow. Seattle Lutheran High School will start at 10. On Vashon, everything’s regular schedule except McMurray Middle School, which will start 3 hours late, with a bus meeting “commuter students” on the 10:20 am ferry from Fauntleroy. Kennedy HS (Burien) will start 2 hours late.

10:51 PM UPDATE: No word on Seattle Public Schools, by the way; they announced today’s decision around 4:45 am so may be planning to do the same. We’re watching the SPS home page and schoolreport.org. Don’t forget that if you were supposed to have Monday trash pickup, the city’s going to try again tomorrow, and if that doesn’t work, just bring it back and they’ll let you put out double next Monday.

11:22 PM UPDATE: Seattle Public Schools just posted. 2 hours late. Here’s the full plan:

2 Hours Late. Buses Operate on Snow Routes. No Door-to-Door Service. No Half-Day Kindergarten. No A.M. or P.M. Preschool. No A.M. or P.M. Head Start. No Activity Runs.

A reminder that the district will also be making those new “School Messenger” phone calls again in the morning – so if you already know what you need to know and want to sleep in after staying up late, turn off your ringer!

11:59 PM UPDATE: Sanding/de-icing truck sighting, at California/Thistle – it’s turning around to head back north on California.

49 Replies to "West Seattle snow and ice: Monday night updates"

  • Chris December 15, 2008 (7:35 pm)

    Just thought I’d put a plug in to my WS neighbors to ask everyone, in the event of more snow, to please shovel the sidewalk before it becomes an ice sheet . I walked from Morgan Street to Gatewood today and was amazed at how few walks had been cleared. The pedestrians of West Seattle thank you!

  • ellenater December 15, 2008 (7:45 pm)

    Man you’re fast! I JUST got my OLG email update seconds ago… :)

  • Iggy December 15, 2008 (7:45 pm)

    I walked the same route today. The worst offender was the gas station just south of the Thriftway. The Thriftway and MacDonalds, on the other hand, deserve lots of praise for clear and dry lots and sidewalks. On the other side of the street, the sidewalk in front of Windemere Real Estate was really bad. If I hadn’t been so cold, I would have gone in to tell them.
    Other problems are the crosswalks. This included crossing Fauntleroy going north (from the Thriftway to the Washington Federal Savings). The handicapped ramps were covered with ice and are also sloped. Ditto on some of the crosswalks where side streets meet California.
    The best part of the day was seeing a very, very happy Bernaise (spelling?) Mountain Dog enjoying the cold and ice. Those dogs always look unhappy in the summer and soooooo happy in the winter

  • Irukandji December 15, 2008 (7:50 pm)

    Residentailly speaking, we haven’t been able to find anyone with rock salt in stock, understandably. Might toss out the French Roast.

  • cjboffoli December 15, 2008 (8:02 pm)

    I discovered that Amazon Fresh is out of rock salt too. So I ordered a bunch of boxes of kosher salt. At $3 a box it gets pricey. But the delivery is free with grocery orders over $30. And a slip and fall negligence lawsuit would cost me more.

  • homesweethome December 15, 2008 (8:10 pm)

    kosher salt works far better than rock salt – and quicker, – its costs a bit more but you get a quick effect and you’re done

  • rykrite December 15, 2008 (8:12 pm)

    We are one of those local families who don’t own a snow shovel…oops. I don’t think that anyone on my block (which I think is a nice block) has done their sidewalks except the house on the corner. But we did have a big bag of sand and sprinkled it on our sidewalk, and it’s amazing what a difference it made – much lower slip factor. I don’t want to add too much salt because I’m using my front yard as a vegetable garden…

  • fiz December 15, 2008 (8:19 pm)

    Couldn’t believe my eyes — yesterday afternoon a young woman walking on all that ice in the
    looooooong crosswalk from Wells Fargo Bank to Glenn Way – in 3-inch heels. I was so stunned it required watching for awhile.

  • hutchbec December 15, 2008 (8:24 pm)

    Her heels probably provided traction… like ice picks.

  • SpeakLoud December 15, 2008 (8:37 pm)

    FYI any salt will work-I got 1 lb tubs for 59cents at Safeway-poured it all over a huge driveway and a little while later (10 minutes) was able to sweep away the ice.

  • datamuse December 15, 2008 (8:37 pm)

    Some of us just have practice, that’s all. (No, that wasn’t me, but I did cross the icy parking lot at work in 3-inch heels today.)

  • Darren December 15, 2008 (8:42 pm)

    I called McLendon’s today and they should have some rock salt between 11am and 1pm tomorrow.

  • Bonnie December 15, 2008 (8:49 pm)

    We don’t even own a snow shovel. Sorry.

  • fiz December 15, 2008 (8:51 pm)

    Personally, I find shoe chains to be a girl’s best friend.

  • Roger December 15, 2008 (8:58 pm)

    Following the “delta at Southern and CA ave” comment, I decided a little digging was in order. I had often wondered if my hunch about streetcar lines was possible.
    I found this interesting link:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/afiler/2907931714/sizes/l/

    It shows the streetcar lines from 1941! Looks like Southern had a streetcar going to 41st ave. I wonder what Seattle residents would think of our modern (laughable) version of mass transit?!?

  • WSB December 15, 2008 (9:09 pm)

    Wow, what a great find. I had no idea they ever went up this far. WSB HQ was built in 1941-1942 and is only a couple blocks from there. It is a bit reminiscent of another streetcar turnaround/end we used to live near, Beach Drive and 61st SW.

  • fiz December 15, 2008 (9:12 pm)

    Roger, those would be the folks who rode the electric trollies for decades without a hitch. They were quiet, didn’t stink and usually ran on time. The good old days……

  • Bayou December 15, 2008 (9:16 pm)

    Reposting this from the forums: I’m terrified of black ice tomorrow with the temps staying so low. Has anyone gone down Roxbury/Olsen Place hill (to 509) today that could report on the conditions?

    I’ve got to get from White Center to SODO tomorrow and I’m trying to decide which route would be better: Roxbury to 509 or Delridge to the bridge?

    And Roger, it’s very cool to see that steetcar map!

  • add December 15, 2008 (9:31 pm)

    Any idea WHEN on Wednesday the next snowfall is expected? We are heading to Puerto Vallarta and I do NOT want that flight to be cancelled!!!

  • WSB December 15, 2008 (9:34 pm)

    The Winter Storm Watch is officially in effect as of very late Tuesday night. (As in, hopefully, long after the school closure hearing on Genesee Hill.) But if you read the forecast discussion I linked to, it’s really all over the map as to what might happen … so to speak … a little snow, a lot of snow, they just think there will be SOME. We’ll add radar watch to tomorrow’s ongoing updates :) It would take a LOT for Sea-Tac to be seriously affected – they have deicer for planes, and all that.

  • k December 15, 2008 (9:42 pm)

    oh how i miss the snow in west seattle. we were at 42 degrees in palm springs this morning with RAIN all day long! i felt like i was back in seattle. all i needed was my latte from hotwire! we did get some snow on the mountain here in the valley. made it feel a touch more like christmas! you all be careful driving there. i remember how bad the roads are. stay safe!

  • AD December 15, 2008 (9:43 pm)

    Thought I’d let my WS neighbors know that Avalon, Yancy Street (hill where everyone parks for the gym), and the streets surrounding ALL STAR gym are safe to drive, slowly… Yancy has obviously been sanded or de-iced. Watch out for black ice, though!

    On my trip to the gym I saw way too many people zipping around…

  • jeannie December 15, 2008 (9:50 pm)

    I just emailed Mayor Nickels (though I doubt it will do any good). I am so tired of being ice-bound whenever we get snow. This happens year after year. Yes, California Avenue and 35th are fine, but I can’t get there from my house. My street is too icy.

    I tried walking to the Morgan Thriftway earlier but only made it halfway before turning around. The sidewalks and the “deltas” are treacherous. Yes, I’m very grateful we have power in our house, but I’d like to get out and get some food!

    Once again, the City of Seattle has let us down. As I wrote to Nickels, this might be the first time in my life I vote Republican (in the next mayoral election).

  • austin December 15, 2008 (10:11 pm)

    I noticed that most of the delivery slots for amazon fresh have been filled for the next couple of days! A lot of people not wanting to make a grocery expedition, including myself.

  • JenV December 15, 2008 (10:14 pm)

    austin, I noticed that too. bummer, too – because I am out of grub and unwilling to brave the icy streets again!

  • p December 15, 2008 (10:27 pm)

    and why did we get rid of those wonderful street cars that ran on time and were electric??

  • chas redmond December 15, 2008 (11:02 pm)

    WSB – more trivia – apparently the reason the 22 snakes its way from California to Thistle through Gatewood is because that’s where the old trolley went – yes, Gatewood and Gatewood Hill were the old end-of-California line at some point in the past. But, I’m betting those storied trains of yore ran on centers of 30 or more minutes – ‘course back then we had time to wait.

  • Todd December 15, 2008 (11:18 pm)

    I hear ya jeannie. I wonder why the city can’t plow, sand, or salt a couple of the side streets too. It’s not like it is supposed to rain the day after snow like usual.

  • WSB December 15, 2008 (11:22 pm)

    Now it all starts to make sense.
    Found some pix though not of Gatewood … I’ve seen the pix in “West Side Story” and of course at the train store but there are some in here I haven’t seen. I’m a nut for old pix. However, I have to write the viaduct story, so I’m getting out of it …
    http://www.lib.washington.edu/specialcoll/findaids/docs/photosgraphics/SeattleMunicipalRailwayPHColl266.xml

  • Scott B. December 15, 2008 (11:34 pm)

    Bayou,

    I drove down off the plateau via Roxbury at approx. 6:00pm this evening (Monday) and it was fine. I have excellent tires, though (Goodyear Fortera uni-directional with approx. 7500 miles on them), I slowed down for the curves even more than usual, I drove slower than the speed limit (the speed limit is 35mph) even on the straight stretches, and I slowed a little more for the elevated structure just before the bottom of the hill (the concrete part where you curve to the left) than I usually do. I almost never exceed the speed limit even on a freeway with bare and dry pavement (to provide a reference point).

    I haven’t driven down Delridge to The Bridge since we have had below-freezing temperatures, but I have read reports that that route should be fine, too. Some things to consider:

    1.) Delridge northbound to The Bridge is a constant grade (one long descent with no steep hills) with only one lane in each direction (likelihood of being tailgated by a driver is relatively high).

    2.) The Roxbury eastbound etc. route to the 1st Ave. S. Bridge (or Hwy. 599 or Hwy. 509) has a steep grade, but there are two lanes. Drivers are less likely to tailgate you since they can use the other lane to make The Big Pass, but (assuming those same drivers would be less likely to pass you using the left turn only lane on Delridge) they are more likely to cause a wreck due to excessive speed for the conditions (sharper curves and a steeper grade).

    A suggestion:
    Stay *at least* two seconds behind the car in front of you no matter how fast or slow that car is traveling. Count (in a normal speaking cadence) “one thousand one one thousand two” to estimate two seconds of time passage. Two seconds is the recommendation for the best driving conditions, AFAIK, so driving conditions in inclement weather warrant more time separation between vehicles. Fault for a rear-end collision may depend on whether or not sufficient following distance was maintained.

  • AD December 15, 2008 (11:42 pm)

    11:42 pm, KOMOnews.com:

    Seattle Public Schools:
    2 Hours Late. Buses Operate on Snow Routes. No Door-to-Door Service. No Half-Day Kindergarten. No A. M. or P. M. Preschool. No A. M. or P. M. Head Start. No Activity Runs.

  • What The December 15, 2008 (11:44 pm)

    Hey! They even had snow back in 1925!!!

    http://content.lib.washington.edu/u?/seattle,855

  • d December 15, 2008 (11:48 pm)

    Hey chas?

    Isn’t the End-o-lyne Cafe (aka Joe’s) named in honor of the fact that the line ended down there at that location? Or was the actual end point somewhere else?

  • WSB December 15, 2008 (11:55 pm)

    AD, I posted that (above) at 11:22 :) It appeared on schoolreport.org at 11:21. District website should have it up soon, I’m told, but they feed in to schoolreport.org first.

  • nants December 16, 2008 (12:10 am)

    Am I wrong or does the mayor live in the Admiral Ditrict/West Seattle…shouldn’t he perhaps look out for his neighbors….it’s very icy and ugly here in West Seattle..we need help with our streets and side streets…and yes we pay our taxes so where are our street clearing services?

  • Alex December 16, 2008 (1:26 am)

    Woo hoo! A plow just drove by, slowly, spreading sand.

    Keep the faith WS!

  • Scott B. December 16, 2008 (1:29 am)

    nants,

    If I remember correctly, both Seattle Mayor Greg Nichols and Seattle City Councilman Tom Rasmussen live in West Seattle, but both are in favor of reducing traffic capacity to and from West Seattle.

  • Alex December 16, 2008 (1:32 am)

    Heading back the other direction now. They’ve made it one block east since the 11:59PM Update but its progress! :)

  • iggy December 16, 2008 (1:38 am)

    One would think that when the sand trucks go through an intersection that they could veer into it enough to sand the crosswalk areas; they could even stop and have someone hop out and do it by hand (analogy: garbage trucks going down the street and stopping to empty dumpsters along the way). The city has been making a big deal lately about pedestrian safety and wanting us to stay out of our cars and take public transportation or walk. Yet, during the ice and snow there is no sanding of the area at bus stops or intersections. Last year a bus driver was quite rude to me. Because of the weather conditions, the 21 was running way, way late. Because of the ice (stop at Barton) he couldn’t come in close to the curb. But the curb and sidewalk were a solid, unsanded sheet of ice. I am not as young as I used to be, and it took me a few minutes to get to the bus. Driver got snippy about it. Not his fault, but not mine either. Okay, enough bah humbug from me for one night. I’ll write to the Mayor tomorrow for what good it won’t do !!!!

  • Scott B. December 16, 2008 (1:50 am)

    nants,

    West Seattle has had the help it needs to keep functioning. The important arterials have been functional 24/7 since the beginning of the “crisis.”

    Here you go:
    http://www.seattle.gov/Transportation/snowandiceplan.htm

    The City of Seattle has this winter blast well in hand so far: important traffic corridors are functioning almost normally.

    If you have problems driving to and from the well-defined City of Seattle important traffic corridors, then that is your problem.

    I have some suggestions for you:
    1.) Use tire chains.
    2.) Take some personal responsibility for your own life. Don’t expect government to fix everything just because you live in an urban environment.
    3.) Walk to the bus.

  • Scott B. December 16, 2008 (2:33 am)

    iggy,

    I suspect because of insurance/lawsuit liability there is little “veering” going on. AFAIK, each truck has one driver for efficiency/cost reasons.

    Regarding the sanding of the area at bus stops or intersections and your questions thereof: the trucks that are set up for sanding are intended to keep traffic/commerce going for the greater good of the general populace.

    Complain to Metro about the (perceived) rudeness. Thank the rest of us for your opportunities.

  • Sue December 16, 2008 (6:47 am)

    iggy, I had the same experience at my bus stop – had to walk over 5 feet of ice. I’ve got mobility issues, and am terrified of ice and what it can do to me if I fall. The only reason I didn’t take 5 minutes to get on the bus is that I made my husband walk me to the bus stop and help me to the bus. But I did file a complaint with Metro over the condition of the bus stop and the fact that if the bus had had chains (as they said they would), it wouldn’t have been a problem for them to come to the curb.

  • homesweethome December 16, 2008 (7:26 am)

    it would be a great help if merchants would shovel their walks/sidewalks

  • KT December 16, 2008 (8:25 am)

    Wow. One poster wrote “If you have trouble driving to and from the well-defined City of Seattle important traffic corridors, then that is your problem.” No, it’s not. I pay hefty property taxes for basic city services. The ability to get to “important traffic corriders” is one of them isn’t it? Are you sure you are not the Mayor posting under another name?

  • Jessica December 16, 2008 (9:15 am)

    I am new to the area and completely appalled to see how this “snow” situation has been handled. Where is the salt? Why aren’t the sidewalks cleared? Don’t people understand that they can be sued for not clearing their sidewalks and parking lots, seems like no one cares? Where I am from it snows a foot, and then freezes, but even we don’t have conditions like this. This is due to lack of action.

  • sam December 16, 2008 (10:10 am)

    “Where is the salt? Why aren’t the sidewalks cleared? Don’t people understand that they can be sued for not clearing their sidewalks and parking lots,”

    since my street doesn’t have sidewalks, and the street is not salted/ sanded- does that mean I can sue the city if I fall down and break my leg ?

    From Scott B:
    “2.) Take some personal responsibility for your own life. Don’t expect government to fix everything just because you live in an urban environment.
    3.) Walk to the bus.”

    ok- but the bus stop (on adverse weather re-route) is a mile away up and down icy streets (and a couple sidewalks). back in my day…

    I didn’t realize this weather update comment thread was going to be so fiery ! maybe that’ll melt some of the ice :)

  • HighPointDogWalker December 16, 2008 (10:49 am)

    Jessica, welcome to the area. Please allow me to inform you the attitude towards snow in Seattle … natives are used to seeing snow melt within 12 hours of the first evidence of “sticking” thus our homeowners don’t own snow shovels or rock salt … it’s usually not needed. Off main arterials it is the home owner’s responsibilty to clear sidewalks. From a historical POV, DOT crews are responding VERY well. Some posters seem a little hard to please and would rather blame the city and not the (unprepared) homeowner.

  • WSB December 16, 2008 (11:03 am)

    HPDW has quite the point, at least from our 17-plus years here. Almost always, rain follows the snow. But never rule out political pressure. Anyone remember Charlie Chong and the snowplows?

  • chas redmond December 16, 2008 (11:58 am)

    D – yes, Endolyne was the end of the line, but from the 1941 map, it appears the California line had two southern termini (terminuses?) The one which dead-ends in Gatewood and the one which dead-ends at Endolyne. The WS track system began before the area was annexed but grew significantly later.

Sorry, comment time is over.