Comments on: Ever wonder why some townhouses look the way they do? https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/ West Seattle news, 24/7 Tue, 06 May 2008 03:37:25 +0000 hourly 1 By: Travis https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-212075 Tue, 06 May 2008 03:37:25 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-212075 I have to say, after having rented in West Seattle for 2 years, a townhome offered my wife and I a chance to own in the wonderful N. Admiral neighborhood.

It’s built green, built well, and built unique (i.e. not cookie-cutter) by Cobb construction, minimizes our commuting, and is extremely efficient inside and out. This is the kind of urban renewal we all should hope for in our increasingly populated city/state/world. As an outdoor enthusiast, sustainable living matters a great deal to me.

In fact, I believe our development even improves this already great area near the Admiral junction, tucked behind the theater.

I understand long-time West Seattle residents frustrated at perceived hostile invasion by developers, especially if neighborhood input is skirted and the “craftsman”-cutter design is an eyesore. But keep in mind the reasons why townhome living makes a lot of sense in our urban neighborhood. And remember us too–we’re your neighbors and love living in this great community just like you!

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By: Brittani Ard https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-105598 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:38:26 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-105598 height limit (thus not allowing for a modern-flat-green roof design). They also don't allow us to put a porch in our front yard. These are all things that we want to see, that we want to build. I understand that there are builders that have no regard for the neighborhood, but as a whole, we are decent, hard-working people. So please stop just blaming the developer. There is a way for developers and neighbors to create an amazing city... this constant back and forth bashing... is never going to achieve that.]]> To clarify… L-1 and L-2 never trigger Design Review, so most of the developments would never go through Design Review. If DPD can reduce permitting timing then we would not need to avoid Design Review/SEPA. Right now it takes almost 1 year to get a permit on a 6-Unit site. With Design Review that time is at least doubled. Those additional holding costs increase the final sale price, thus making affordable housing harder to achieve. Instead of just beating up the developers, try focusing on DPD to make permitting a quicker process. The majority of my clients will agree that Design Review is not a bad thing, the time it takes to go through Design Review is the problem. Also, with the changes to the Multifamily Code that are on the Mayor’s desk right now… things like setbacks, front porches, useable open space, reducing the requirements for that awful 5′ fence on the street are all being addressed. We as a development community are looking forward to being able to design something better. We have been constrained by the current code. It is DPD, not use that requires that 5′ fence, or private “unusable’ open space, or that same craftsmen style to keep it under the current 25’ height limit (thus not allowing for a modern-flat-green roof design). They also don’t allow us to put a porch in our front yard. These are all things that we want to see, that we want to build. I understand that there are builders that have no regard for the neighborhood, but as a whole, we are decent, hard-working people. So please stop just blaming the developer. There is a way for developers and neighbors to create an amazing city… this constant back and forth bashing… is never going to achieve that.

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By: Rick https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-94027 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:48:11 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-94027 Not to defend all the new developments but most of them are at least a little bit better than the flat roof stucco scourge of the 80’s.

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By: Townhouses Not Feeling The Love | hugeasscity https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-93084 Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:45:13 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-93084 […] in West Seattle, architect and design review board member David Foster has been grumbling about micro-permitting, received this response from Richard Conlin, and even SLOG piled on. No […]

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By: m https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91933 Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:22:40 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91933 I’ve been inside several townhomes and they are ALL THE SAME inside, as well as out. Three stories, one room and garage on the first (with a coat closet), kitchen, living area and 1/2 bath on second, 2 bedrooms and one master bath and laundry on third. It’s nice to hear there is a variation on that theme in HP, but I think that’s the exception! And it doesn’t worry me that our 1 bath house is ‘obsolete’; if families of 7 or more could make it work with one bathroom (as both sets of my grandparents did back in the day), then we certainly make it work with just 2 people in the house! Besides, it’s one less toilet for me to clean.

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By: Renee https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91285 Sun, 27 Jan 2008 04:52:37 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91285 We have a similar problem in Pinehurst where a developer is putting in 24 townhouses in an L3 zone, but does not have to go through either SEPA or design review for the new construction.

http://pinehurstcommunity.blogspot.com/search/label/Kohary

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By: David Foster https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91156 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:41:57 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91156 Good points candrewb. NoMo12’s developer, Greg Walton, would have done a great project with or without Design Review, and unfortunately the market hasn’t cooperated as well as hoped.

But I stay with my original point, which is that it is very possible to do nice townhomes when the will is there. And I believe it can be done economically. Greg has 2 more projects under construction now on Capital Hill and after the lessons learned at NoMo I believe he will do very well.

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By: ‘Micropermitting’ - the zoning loop hole that lets you build more » Smarter Neighbors https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91134 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:46:36 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91134 […] a really good discussion on WestSeattleBlog.com right now featuring a letter from West Seattle Design Review Board member […]

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By: candrewb https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91127 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:20:42 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91127 David, I agree with your opinions on the 5900 of California. Full disclosure – I live in neither development, but I do live nearby.

One thing you did not mention however, those units you do not like sold-out at an average of $380,000 each if I remember correctly.

NoMo still has many units availabe at $575,000 plus. Unargueably, NoMo is a much nicer development, but $200,000 nicer? I am not sure about that.

At the time, I was hoping NoMo would be a lesson to developers that if they spend the extra money and build something cool, buyers will flock to it. Unfortunately however, the opposite is proving true.

$575,000 can get you a kickin’ two or three bedroom home with a view. That is what NoMo is competing against.

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By: WSB https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91109 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:08:50 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91109 Jack Loblaw – good idea. We have to go out and get a photo of something else semi-newsy before Total Snow Panic possibly sets in, so we’ll pick up some project pix while we’re out.

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By: Greg https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91058 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:07:06 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91058 Living in NE Seattle and having gone through the design review board process myself, I feel the design review process is ok but not as empowered to make changes as David makes it out to appear. The design review board (DRB) process really only helps ‘soften the corners’ of what Seattle’s already pretty bad zoning permits. Look through any of the DRB’s recommendations and the focus is on color schemes, cornices, landscaping, location of garages, etc… All of these are important, but unless there is a clear zoning violation the DRB does not have any power to reduce bulk-and-scale, make recommendations on traffic mitigation, and to recommend a different purpose for the proposed property. However, if I’m wrong I’d really like to hear about a case where the DRB took a controversial project design which followed the letter of the zoning law and forced it to be signficantly improved.

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By: Jack Loblaw https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91040 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:31:02 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91040 If you wish to see the 1940’s version of look alike houses look at the south side of SW Roxbury street starting at 30th Ave SW and going west to the first intersection. The houses have 3 designs. They would flip floor plans on every other one of the same design in order to keep it interesting. When they were built the area was woods and farms. I am sure that the farmers and wild animals that once lived there did not like the progress. I think that the point of contention here with the townhouses is that they look ugly. There are some good examples of squishy townhouse designs a couple blocks north of the Alaska junction on 44th Ave SW. It would be interesting for WSB to take photos of various townhouses in the area and let people comment on what they think about the looks. In my opinion townhouses do not need to be ugly to be built and sold at a profit. We cannot stop owners from legally ( key word legally with no “funny” permits ) building on their own land but we sure should be allowed to see designs and reject them when they are an eyesore in the making.

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By: David Foster https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-91030 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:57:04 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-91030 Wendy – what strikes me as highly ironic about your comments is that High Point – your beloved new neighborhood – went though an extensive Design Review process. Market forces alone would never have created it.

JM – if you had submitted your project to Design Review, my guess is that you could have built what you envisioned. That’s one of the benefits of Design Review: it enables code departures to achieve better designs. Another benefit is that it requires developers to hire an architect and to submit different concepts for evaluation – off-the-shelf plans are not acceptable.

It’s simply not true that cookie cutter design is inevitable. Take for example two projects built last year in the 5900 block of California. The first, at 5940 California, is among the worst projects I’ve seen in a long time. (Right up there with the NW corner of California and Spokane.) The other, NoMo12, is one of the best. The difference is that NoMo12 obeyed the law and went through Design Review, while 5940 piecemealed its permitting and thus avoided not only Design Review, but also SEPA, and skirted sidewalk and right-of-way improvement requirements as well.

A small handful of developers get it. The rest should be kept on a tighter leash so they don’t ruin our city.

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By: Mikal https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-90935 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:30:54 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-90935 I don’t like most of them either. But I can’t afford to pay for all the lots so I don’t have that choice, nor should I.

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By: WSB https://westseattleblog.com/2008/01/ever-wonder-why-some-townhouses-look-the-way-they-do/#comment-90851 Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:51:05 +0000 https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5360#comment-90851 P.S. To everyone checking back specifically on this thread, we heard back from Council President Conlin, to whom we sent the link, and have posted his reply as a separate followup:
https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5370

rather than just tacking it onto this original post.

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