Alki Statue of Liberty plaza: Opponent makes her case

statueforicon1.jpgAs we mentioned in our detailed report about last night’s Parks Department-organized meeting on the proposed plaza — the remaining time for public comment appears to be short. The official person to send your thoughts to is project manager Pamela Kliment at Parks; but unofficial discussion will continue online at sites including WSB and the Seattle Statue of Liberty Plaza Project blog. Those following the discussion might be interested in a new anti-plaza letter to Parks, cc’d to us and others, from former Alki community leader Cindi Laws:

No FANCY-SCHMANCY, SKATE BOARD PARK masquerading as a Statue of Liberty Plaza:

It was nice to meet you at the unveiling on 9/11. The action of the Mayor, getting the statue landed back on the old base, was one of the best, showing strong and simple leadership, things he’s done since elected.

While I love the lighting concept on the plaza design, that is ALL that I like about it.  The Plaza, as currently designed, belongs in Bellevue, not West Seattle. Interesting that none of the renderings show the Bathhouse, the nearby trees, or certainly the local businesses as a backdrop.  The glaring contrast of the grandiose, fancy-schmancy plaza contrast markedly with the local businesses and apartments nearby.

There may come a time in the next decade or so when those buildings, like my former cottage and garden at 61st & Stevens (now home to a fortress of condos, complete with a stockade fence), are torn down.

People like the Carrs may want to tear down what little character remains at Alki, and are doing their best to usher in full-scale Californication.  While all of Seattle is changing, and Alki will continue to grow it’s value in real estate, we do NOT need a plaza design that contrasts so horridly with the tremendous history that is the birthplace of Seattle.

In November 1851, the schooner “Exact” anchored off what is now the intersection of 63rd & Alki.  The Denny party paddled ashore and set up camp, and later built
cabins in the neighborhood. A few gems alluding to this early history still exist: an original cabin remains in the neighborhood.  A few years later, settlers constructed a hotel, now the Alki Homestead, and it’s former carriage house, the Alki Log House Museum, which remains, RESTORED AND SPRUCED UP, not unlike the potential of the base at the Statue of Liberty.  Near the turn of the 20th Century, Alki was home to Luna Park and a wonderful natatorium.  People, perhaps the ancestors of the Carrs, torched the place.

Now, evidence of that wonderful history exists only when the rotting piers are visible at extreme low tide, or in photographs at the Luna Park Cafe and Spud Fish & Chips.  Mid century, our local historians sought to recognize the Denny Party with an obelisk featuring the names of all the settlers “and wives” the obelisk was SPIFFED UP AND AMENDED with the names of those wives at the Sesquicentennial of the Exact landing).   The Bathhouse, also created mid century, was recently REBUILT AND RESTORED to compliment the original structure, while not straying from its historical origins.

In the early 90s, a group set up through the Alki Community Council, of which I was president, worked for several years as the “Shoreline Park Improvement Fund” (SPIF).  Great and dedicated citizens like Gary Ogden, Mark Guerette, and Jackie Ramels (now a parks commissioner) put in hundreds of hours, working with the police department, the Port of Seattle, the Washington State Department of Ecology, the EPA, and others to redesign the Alki strip. The purpose of their work was to return Alki to the people by creating a safer walking environment and wheeled environment, with lanes separated by grass and differing paving. These lanes were grade-separated from auto traffic, which was reduced to one lane in each direction. Bollards were placed throughout to further enhance public safety, and the SPIF consulted extensively with youth to seek ways to lower vandalism.  Dozens of benches, garbage containers, and other enhancements were added throughout the miles-long strip.  The result of this years-long process are the park we all enjoy today — one that respects Alki’s history with sensitive, low-key, functional design.

The Statue of Liberty Plaza design, as presented, does NOT FIT IN with the ethic, the history, or the design of any of our landmarks and monuments.  The project needs to be removed from the hands of people  who’s goal is to leverage the Alki Statue into a career. The project needs a straightforward, honest, approach.

Mayor Greg Nickels showed tremendous leadership in directing the Seattle Parks Department to mount the new statue on the old base.  The project committee had fought against this effort, but thanks to Mayor Nickels and Deputy Mayor Tim Ceis, reason and common sense prevailed.

Let reason and common sense reject the fancy-schmancy plaza design in favor of something that more accurately reflects the historic nature of Alki and the Birthplace of Seattle.

Cindi Laws

41 Replies to "Alki Statue of Liberty plaza: Opponent makes her case"

  • Bubba September 15, 2007 (8:17 am)

    Couldn’t agree more, except for the digs at the Carrs who I don’t know (the digs could be accurate but I just don’t know- or really care)

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (9:33 am)

    Bubba:
    Cindi’s my friend and I also mostly agree with the above posting.
    However, starting on July 11th, when I got involved in this plaza debate, lobbying everywhere I could that we needed our statue back NOW on the existing base, I repeatedly stressed that I and “Bring Miss Liberty Home Now” would NOT participate in any name calling, regardless of how we felt.
    When Pamela Kliment of Parks came under attack by the plaza committee and I wanted to defend her here on WSB, she repeatedly told me, “Take the high-road, Jo.” I have.
    I am ecstatic at the outcome of our efforts. It shows that the ‘little’ person CAN make a difference.
    Thursday night’s meeting was very stacked pro-grandiose-plaza, so we still need to let Parks know our opinions. Please email Pamela Kliment at Pamela.Kliment@Seattle.Gov.
    Thank you, WS community and WSB, for your support.
    Jo Ofsthus and the disbanded “Bring Miss Liberty Home NOW” group

  • carraignasplinkeen September 15, 2007 (9:43 am)

    Does taking the high road include not trashing where people live?

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (11:10 am)

    Jo –
    I am curious why you used the words “Thursday night’s meeting was very stacked pro-grandiose-plaza,”? I attended Thurday’s meeting with an open mind and was impressed with the fairness of the process. As you know (since you are one of them), the leaders of both sides of this issue were allowed time to present at the meeting and answer participants questions. Also, a “sticky dot” process was used so participants could voice their position on the issue both before and after the presentations. I noticed that a moderate majority of community members attending the meeting were for the new pedestal/plaza at the beginning of the meeting. At the end of the meeting after both your presentation and that of the plaza planners, a much more overwhelming majority were for the pedestal/plaza. This must indicate that many of us came to the meeting with open minds and were willing to change our opinions after hearing the facts and ideas from both sides. In other words, meeting participants listened to your presentation at the meeting and moved from being “Anti” to pro-plaza after hearing you speak. I think this was because the plaza planners have thoughtfully addressed the concerns of the community and the plan honors both the spirit of Alki and of the statue herself. Using language such as the meeting was “stacked” with people opposed to your view seems needlessly inflamatory and is not “taking the high road.”

  • Jan September 15, 2007 (12:00 pm)

    I don’t live at Alki, and I go there infrequently, mainly for dinner. It’s been interesting reading about the meeting on Thursday, and previous posts on here. It seems to me (and just my opinion) that no one is interested in compromise? I hear that people who don’t like the new plaza think it will be a “skateboard park”. While that’s a concern, if you think about it, it is right now, if the skaters want it to be….a ramp down to the statue from street level, benches around for them to do whatever on..etc.etc. And then…there’s the pro-plaza people wanting to move the statue entirely, 6 feet this way, 15 feet that was….what’s wrong with where it’s at? Just update the pedestal, make some improvements around it, allow her to keep looking in the same direction that she’s been looking in since 1952. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone gets together instead of having an “all or nothing” attitude, things could get done quicker, a plan that compromises could be drawn up, and maybe it wouldn’t cost so much, and fundraising would be a bit easier.

    And please dispense with derogatory remarks about “rivals” (actually, it shouldn’t be “us” against “them” at all)…that just causes problems, serves no purpose, and doesn’t get anything accomplished, and probably shows some very good, well-intentioned people in a bad light.

    again…just an opinion…

  • Bob Shields September 15, 2007 (12:08 pm)

    The debate over the plaza seems to me to be unnecessarily filled with heated language, partcularly in light of the modesty of the proposal. It is clear to me that it would provide easier access to Lady Liberty and, while all sorts of wheeled vehicles could glide to it, wheelchairs and walkers, not skateboards, seem most accomodated.

  • MargL September 15, 2007 (12:20 pm)

    Which design was presented at the latest meeting? The pictures I see on the sealady.org site are a little different from the ones on the architect’s site

    http://www.sealady.org/project.html
    http://www.castarchitecture.com/projects/public/alki/alki.html

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (12:37 pm)

    Kathy: “stacked”: I apologize. That was absolutely the wrong word to use. The Plaza Project group is very, very organized, so alot of their group was there. That was what I meant.
    I didn’t get a chance to go over to the wall and notice the voting ‘after’ the meeting,’ so don’t really know the results. I lost my ‘dots’ and didn’t even vote after the meeting.
    My preference is still for sprucing up the existing base, installing the pre-sold engraved bricks and calling it done.
    The architects, Matt and Chris, did an excellent job of presenting the new plaza. Compromise is what it’s been about from day one for me. What started out as an “all-or-nothing” project has now opened up to possible modifications in the design, based on citizen input. As it should be.
    Whatever happens, we’ll end up with a beautiful area for all to enjoy.
    Jo

  • flipjack September 15, 2007 (12:57 pm)

    What the hell’s wrong with it becoming a skateboard park jeeschus! I find watching teenagers having fun, getting active aggression out of their bones much more entertaining than watching a bunch of stuffy old middleage fogeys making sure their shirts are tucked in while they fee the pigeons.
    And for those of you who anti-skaters who are younger with preteen children..well, I gots news for ya..your kids are going to grow up and be teenagers with nothing to do but cruise Alki, drink beer, smoke pot and vandalize the condos…out of sheer BOREDOM!

  • alki growers coop September 15, 2007 (1:19 pm)

    All this ruccus for an illuminati symbol…thousand points of light anyone! The original statue in NY was really built for Egypt to celebrate the opening of the Suez Canal but the Egyptians didn’t want it so the French gave it to the Masons in the US to celebrate their 100 yrs of control over us sheeples.
    I say lets build it big and proud so we can all have the erroneous belief of our freedom! The city can pay for it with all the money they steal from us.

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (1:23 pm)

    Kathy: “listened to your presentation at the meeting and moved from being “Anti” to pro-plaza after hearing you speak.”
    If you had really listened to what I had to say, you should have come away with the fact that there were certain aspects of the new plaza design that alot of community has ‘concerns’ about. Legitimate ‘concerns.’ I have a preference, but am not totally against the plaza, only the all-or-nothing approach. If you took my handouts, maybe you can go back and revisit issues that I expressed. As I’m sure you noticed, I am not an accomplished public speaker.
    I do appreciate your view of events, though, and will certainly attempt to edit my comments more thoroughly in the future.
    Jo

  • alki growers coop September 15, 2007 (1:26 pm)

    “The last time I was inside a woman was when I visited the Statue of Liberty.” — Woody Allen

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (1:35 pm)

    Dear WSB,
    I am concerned about the title of this post, apecifically including the words “makes her case.” I read Cindi’s letter and I do not see any evidence that she “makes a case.” I see many of Cindi’s opinions expressed as if they were facts without any evidence. She is using her position as a former elected official to spread mis-information and circumvent the on-going democratic process.

    For example here is a statement from Cindi’s letter:

    “The project needs to be removed from the hands of people who’s goal is to leverage the Alki Statue into a career.”

    To make a charge such as this, with no evidence to back it up, is irresponsible. Also, for Cindi to suggest that the Carr’s ancestors torched Luna Park is just plain mean-spirited.

    Cindi’s positive comments about the lighting indicate that she has accessed the publically available information on this project and should be aware of the design which includes strong elements that will protect the plaza from skate boarders. It will not be attractive or feasible for skate boarders to use the proposed plaza. Yet she still titles her letter “Fancy-Schmancy Skate Board Park.” She appears to be purposefully spreading mis-information to influence public opinion.

    I am open-minded on this issue. I have attended meetings run by both ACC and now, the Parks Dept., where the plaza project was discussed. I am open to hearing an opposing view to this project. But so far, the opposing side has not put forth any facts. I’ve only heard that’s it’s fancy-schmanzy and doesn’t fit. What’s so “fancy-schmancy” about it? Why doesn’t it fit? The projected plaza design makes the space more attractive, safer for pedestrians, and more usable for the public. What are the elements of this project that the opponents don’t like? Telling me it’s “fancy-schmanzy” doesn’t give me much to go on. The plaza planners have made an articulate and thoughtful case about how this project will improve my community. I will listen to both sides, but I’ve been to the meetings I’ve read Cindi’s letters, seen Jo’s presentaion at the recent meeting, and read blog comments opposing this project. I have yet to hear any specific reasons against this project that are based on factual information. If you could explain specifically what you don’t like I will listen. So far you haven’t done so. Untill then I’ll support the community banding together to improve a local park. There is a lot of mis-information being spread about this project. I encourage readers to attend the upcoming meetings on this issue to be held by the parks dept. and make up their own minds.

    Perhaps you could rename this post to “Failed Ex-Monorail board member expresses her opinion based on misinformation and with complete disregard for the facts?”

  • flipjack September 15, 2007 (2:27 pm)

    Right on alki growers coop.

  • troll alert September 15, 2007 (2:30 pm)

    Back under the bridge, trolls.

  • Charla Mustard-Foote September 15, 2007 (2:30 pm)

    DITHERING IS NOT FREE:

    I like the proposed plaza and I don’t like the backbiting but MOST OF ALL I don’t like the strong portent of ongoing battle — we’ll either
    decide to accept the plaza or not and then we’ll redecide and undecide and finally give up because the cost (of changing our collective “minds”) is too great. Just decide and implement what we decided. You’ll be surprised how good it feels.

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (2:31 pm)

    Kathy:
    I reiterate. I am ambivilant about new plaza, am not against it, will not lobby against it, have ‘concerns’ about certain aspects of the design. I am proud of having a small part in getting Miss Liberty returned home. Period!
    Even though Cindi’s my friend, I do NOT suppoort her anti-Carr comments. I agree with your comments on that.
    MargL: I can see why you are confused. Yes, everytime we see renderings of the plaza it changes. Now according to Thursday night’s presentation by the architects, the planting areaa seem to have grown considerably.
    (Heavy Sigh)

  • Jan September 15, 2007 (2:59 pm)

    I am neither for nor agin’, I’ll say that first. The artists rendering of the plantings is picayune, IMHO. Nothing to get worked up over. That can be changed easily, and probably was done that way to make a pretty picture. Artist’s renderings of condos and apt. bldgs. are the same way, and they almost never look exactly as drawn.

    And, in 2-3 years time, with storms, and salt water, and wind, and pigeons, and people walking on it, the plaza, however it’s built in the beginning, will fit right in…

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (3:17 pm)

    Jo, you said: “If you had really listened to what I had to say, you should have come away with the fact that there were certain aspects of the new plaza design that alot of community has ‘concerns’ about.”

    I did hear concerns expressed, but I also heard the project design team address those concerns. Even the concerns about funding and how the design could be scaled back if we can’t raise all the necessary funds, was addressed. My memory may be faulty, but the concern I remember being pushed aside was that of two participants who complained that the plaza was “gentrification.” I agree with the design team that improving city parks is not gentrification. Gentrification is turning affordable family homes into million dollar townhouses, replacing grocery stores, barber shops, and drugstores with high end restaurants, lounges and bars is gentrification.

    However the concerns about on-going maintainence of the plaza and plantings, skate boarders, who will track the money raised, and the position of the new pedestal and statue were well addressed by the design team.

    Jo, you said: “If you took my handouts, maybe you can go back and revisit issues that I expressed.”

    I do have your handouts. I see freom your handout that your group doesn’t think we need any new benches or plants. My question is: Why not? I have often been at Alki and could not find a vacant place to sit. It’s nice to be able to sit and look out at the water. The Statue is a natural and easy meeting place. I see families, groups of runners, mom’s groups with strollers, etc all using the statues area as a meeting place – why not give them a place to sit? Also, the statue has become a meaningful and symbolic place for the community as a whole, especially since 9/11 and having a comfortable place to sit could enrich visitors’ experiences. With regards to the plantings, the designers will use low maintenance, drought tolerant native species and indicated they would love to work with the Wildlife Habitat group from ACC. Also the Alki Starbucks has donated volunteers who will help with the initial three years to get the plants established (the most high-need time for new plantings). In terms of your concerns about orientation of the statue, the design team explained that the ramp down to the boardwalk from 61st is the park dept.’s only access for bringing in maintenance vehicles. The location of the statue currently makes this difficult and puts the statue in danger of being clipped. By shifting the statue, this problem is solved. Shifting the statue slightly also will create a larger plaza space in front of the statue. For example, during last Tuesday’s large gathering when the mayor spoke, many in the audience had to sit behind the statue. With this new design gatherings can be held in front of the statue. Also, with the new design people can sit on benches to either look at the statue, or at the water, something that cannot be done in it’s current location.

    I could go on, but I hope I have given you enough information to show you that, yes Jo, I WAS listening. I have read and considered your hand outs. I really am trying to make an informed decision on this issue. I appreciate that you are honestly trying to keep the interests of the community in your heart. I also hear that you (and others) don’t like the new plaza, but I truly am listening and don’t understand why. I encourage you to articulate your concerns, do your homework and make sure your concerns are based on facts.

    Having community members willing to step up and ask questions about public projects can keep organizers on their toes, but it can be a delicate balance between helping and thwarting positive progress.

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (3:31 pm)

    Jo, you said: “Kathy:
    I reiterate. I am ambivilant about new plaza, am not against it, will not lobby against it, have ‘concerns’ about certain aspects of the design.”

    Jo, do you see how statements you have made such as:

    “Cindi’s my friend and I also mostly agree with the above posting.”

    Or this:

    “Thursday night’s meeting was very stacked pro-grandiose-plaza, so we still need to let Parks know our opinions. Please email Pamela Kliment at Pamela.Kliment@Seattle.Gov.”

    might be construed as agreeing with Cindi and lobbying against the project?

    Again I encourage you to articulate your concerns and explain how the design team has not addressed them. I’m listening.

  • WSB September 15, 2007 (4:09 pm)

    Marg – We don’t have a linkable version of the handout at the meeting (probably should try to take a pic of it, since our scanner isn’t working at the moment). It features six of the architects’ renderings, including the four that are on the architects’ site; the ones on the sealady.org site appear to be from earlier iterations.

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (4:32 pm)

    On Cindi’s comments, only the part about ‘spiffing-up, amending, restoring, sprucing up” I throughly agree with. I do NOT and will NEVER agree with name-calling.
    Now listen up, Kathy.
    I am not lobbying against the project, please don’t knit-pick, Because I said as far as I understand it this is no longer an “all-or-nothing” project. That was what the meeting on Thursday was all about. The gathering of concerns and ideas from the community.
    The plaza project people and the architects, of course, want the project as designed, That is understandable. I respect that, alot of work has gone into it.
    I am not lobbying against the project if I encourage people to contact Parks with their opinions. If someone doesn’t like the color of the plants, for instance, they can contact Parks and give their opinion.
    Or if someone thinks that the benches should have backs, they should contact Parks and give their opinion.
    Just because I encourage people to contact Parks doesn’t mean I’m against the entire project. Please, again, don’t knit-pick.
    CONCERNS about new plaza design:
    .The statue should face out like she is now, not towards the mountains. Contact Parks and state this opinion, if you agree or disagree.
    .Eliminate benches in front of statue to facilitate this moving statue outward; i.e., comments by architects about truck access. Contact Parks if you agree or disagree.
    .Smooth design of pedestal and benches WILL facilitate skateboarding and graffiti. Contact…..
    .Maintenance of planting area and plaza will be up to Parks, necessitating increase in budget; i.e., watering and weeding planting area and cleaning off graffiti from smooth pedestal and bricks. As I said to architect, “Pretty things most often attract the graffiti artists and it’s not a problem we’ve had with the existing base.” A little humor there, Kathy.
    .Cleaning of engraved bricks by Parks ad infinitum. (See parking area bricks at Log House Museum as an example.) Contact Parks……agree or disagree.
    .In order for this project to go forward in a timely manner, if it starts to flag due to lack of fundraising the full $157,000 in a timely manner, some aspect of the design can be eliminated, such as the planting areas and benches. Architect Matt agreed that this could be done. Contact Parks….
    .Fund raising accountability to the community-at-large. Did we not learn from NPA’s non-responsive request by Parks to give a presentation at Thursday’s meeting. We still don’t know how much money was raised, how much the statue cost, how many bricks were sold. We do know that $10,550 is in a CD for the sold bricks. I repeat, we need accountability from this fund-raising committee/501 (c) (3) group. Did we not learn our lesson. Contact Parks is you agree or disagree.
    .Got concerns of your own? Contact Parks…..
    As I said earlier: “I am ambivilant about new plaza, am not aainst it, will not lobby against it, have ‘concerns’ about certain aspect of the design.”
    Kathy, if I haven’t articulated to your satisfaction, well…..

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (4:44 pm)

    “Just decide and implement what we decided.”
    Charla: I agree, Parks is making final decision, based on whatever they decide to base it on, and we all will live happily-ever-after in la-la land.
    I am now beginning the painful process of ‘not taking myself so damn seriously.’
    Jo

  • Jan September 15, 2007 (5:12 pm)

    Kathy…since I could not attent the meeting due to illness, thank you for the explanation of why they want to move the statue…makes sense to me.

    Jo…if nothing changed, Parks still has to provide maintenance of what is there, whether it’s watering, planting, graffiti, vandalism…whatever. That’s a given…it will not be something new to them.

    People can disagree…but it sounds here like sarcasm, animosity have taken the forefront between Jo and Kathy.

    I don’t know the Carrs, have never met them…but..I can promise you, if I was them, I’d be throwing in the towel, handing you all the books and telling you to stuff it. Why is there this underlying current that they’ve done something wrong, that somehow they’re in this for themselves, that somehow there are no records of monies, and worse yet, that they may have allocated some for themselves. How insulting is that. Yes..I’d tell you to stuff it. Instead of arguing on blogs and papers, go volunteer your time with them…work together..and maybe more could be accomplished.

    again..my personal opinion, as I only know what I’m reading. I may be way off base, but it all seems nit-picky to me, just arguing for arguing’s sake.

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (6:09 pm)

    Jan, I have never attempted to imply that the Carrs have done anything wrong, in fact I am concerned about many of the posts here that are using misinformation to villify them. Though perhaps I’m confused and you weren’t speaking to me in your last post?
    Anyway, I continue to encourage anyone interested in this issue to attend the community meetings and hear for yourself what the facts are. My understanding, based on what was said at Thursday’s meeting, is that there will be two more community meetings to gather input on this issue. Hopefully WSB will continue the wonderful job done so far of letting us know when and where.

  • Jo September 15, 2007 (6:09 pm)

    Jan:
    “Carrs…..Why is there this underlying current that they’ve done something wrong, that somehow they’re in this for themselves, that somehow there are no records of monies, and worse yet, that they may have allocated some for themselves.” – I have never said anything like that. I do not believe that. Northwest Programs for the Arts, the people who raised funds for the recasting, have not given an accounting of the monies raised/spent, though often requested by the community at large. The Carr’s had no part in that. I have never implied that the Carr’s have done anything wrong. Only, since we’ve had no accounting for funds from NPA, let’s be extra careful this time and have a timely reporting to the community. I would think the Carr’s would welcome the opportunity. They’ve taken on a huge task, and are very organized. I wish them well on their fundraising efforts.
    “move the statue…makes sense to me.” – moving the statue west 15′ and back 6′ isn’t the real issue with me. – it’s the small benches in front that necessitate rotating her position towards the mountains instead of facing outward. This is per the Matt, the architect, “to make room for trucks.” The small benches in front can be eliminated, it doesn’t ruin the overall design, and she can again face the way she does not, not toward the mountains. Besides in 55 years at her present location, I havent heard of any trucks running into the base.
    “Parks still has to provide maintenance…it will not be something new to them” – there is not much to maintain on existing base and there is much more to maintain on new plaza – a huge planting area where non existed before (watering, weeding), engraved bricks where none existed before (pressure washing so engraved names can be seen), smooth pedestal and benches (graffiti and skateboarding damage), where none existed before. Parks does a good job, but their budget is limited, projects have been scrapped due to that budget.
    Jan, so you see there are always two sides to every explanation. And it seems like sarcasm and animosity have taken the forefront. I don’t like it either. However, if anyone has legitimate questions, I am more than willing to answer them to the best of my ability since I have been involved in this statue business since the Liberty Deli fundraising days in 1996 and know a little bit about it. And if I don’t know the answer, I’ll sure try to find someone who does.
    I understand that there will be other meeting(s). Perhaps you can attend the next one.

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (6:51 pm)

    Jo, sorry if I’m coming across to you as nit-picking. I have been reading the posts from you and others on this issue over the past few weeks. I have not posted anything prior to now because I really didn’t know the facts. But, after hearing a balanced presentation of the issue at Thursday’s meeting, I was surprised at how much the issue has been confused (at least how much I have been confused and misinformed)by reading the posts on this blog. I just wanted to present a more balanced approach to the issue.

  • Dis September 15, 2007 (7:05 pm)

    I think that in the end, the truth will come out. Sometimes it takes many years, but it always does.

  • Jan September 15, 2007 (7:19 pm)

    Kathy…sorry for the misunderstanding…only the first line of my post was for you. :) And, yes, it’s amazing what WSB does to keep us informed about this…and so many other things, and that they allow the kind of discussion and dissent that happens here – what a wonderful forum.

  • Kathy September 15, 2007 (8:46 pm)

    Jo, I’m glad you brought up the plant maintainence issue. It’s true that more space is devoted to plants in the plan than currently. But did you know that the Alki Starbucks has come forward to volunteer to water the plants for the 1st three years? I like to garden an I can concur with the designer’s statement that the first three years are crucial for getting plants established and after that you can ease up. I noticed that when the parking lot was removed to open up the creek in Schmitz Park the new plantings were watered by dedicated volunteers (one in particular I often saw there watering) for about three years and now the plants are on their own and looking great.

  • Erik September 15, 2007 (9:07 pm)

    I’ve known Paul and Libby (The Carrs) for about 15 years. Paul and I have been in choirs and musicals together, and we even spent time on a board of trustees (so he’s used to being a target…lol)…and every xmas he grows a hefty beard so he can be Santa to the kids. They’re pretty down-to-earth folks. The two of them have always had this leadership ability to rouse the troops toward an effort, that’s probably how they came to lead this. Libby has tried to get me involved but I’d rather spend time in my yard or with my dog.
    Personally, I could care less what happens to the statue, but I commend them for their hard work.

  • Amy September 15, 2007 (10:01 pm)

    Uh… – Is this statement from Jo true? “We still don’t know how much money was raised, how much the statue cost, how many bricks were sold. We do know that $10,550 is in a CD for the sold bricks.” How can that information not be known? It implies that no one has a record of how many bricks were purchased and by whom? huh, really???

  • Jo September 16, 2007 (12:46 am)

    Amy: We don’t know how much money was raised, how much the statue cost. We know that the statue was paid for. But Northwest Programs for the Arts has not come forward with any figures. They were supposed to appear at Thursday night’s meeting, but just sent a written statement which told us nothing. However, apparently there is a list of bricks sold. And a CD for $10,550.00 has been set aside to be used for those bricks. I heard the figure around 350 bricks? So, there appears to be monies available for the intallation of those bricks. Don’t know if the 10,550 covers it, but…at least it’s there.

  • Kathy September 16, 2007 (8:56 am)

    Didn’t NPA really drop the ball on this and that is why the Carr’s took over?

    Amy,
    I didn’t hear anything at the meeting implying that there was anything improper with the managing of the funds, just that NPA was not responsive and perhaps have even disbanded. That is why another 501c3 organization, Urban Sparks, has been brought in to track the money. There was a gentleman at the meeting from Uban Sparks, Jack Tomkinson. He took questions from the meeting participants. He was asked about how his organization would be accountable to the public. He said they would produce quarterly reports for the client, the statue project group(ie the Carrs group). The statue group can make them available to the public if they choose (they may have some legal obligation to do so, I don’t know). I assume Urban Sparks would also file IRS returns required by any 501c3 and those reports would be available to the public, I think. A similar situation with stagnated fundraising happened with Whale Tail Park, if you remember that. Money was raised and then when the bids came in too high, they had to go back and raise more money after a lag period. I think what has happened with this statue project is not that unusual for community volunteer fundraising efforts.

    Anyway, I didn’t take notes, this is just what I remember and I’m not an expert on requirements of 501c3 organizations. I just know that if you contribute to one, it’s tax deductable.

  • early morningh September 16, 2007 (10:54 am)

    Is Kathy really Libby?

  • WSB September 16, 2007 (11:14 am)

    Actually, to quell speculation, we can tell you that while we don’t know any of these folks in person (a) we’ve heard from Kathy before on other matters and (b) hers is a different IP address from the ones we have on correspondence from the Carrs. (The IP address of commenters and site visitors is seen only by the administrator of a website in most cases, and sometimes it’s quite interesting. In another contentious recent thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the Statue of Liberty, we saw the same IP address pop up repeatedly on myriad comments all claiming to be from different people.)

  • Bob Shields September 16, 2007 (1:15 pm)

    Although I think there has been some clarification of issues surrounding an improved placement of the statue through the commentary here, I think I will make it a point to attend future community meetings.

    I regret that Cindi Laws lost her housing, with its lovely gardens, to a multi-family dwelling, but I have real concerns about following her lead on public projects. The monorail had a great deal of opposition from the beginning, but the creeping elegance and constant revisions that the citizens committee kept taking on didn’t help it succeed in the end.

    There is a difference between constructive criticism and riding one’s own hobbyhorse. Perhaps a reading of the D. H. Lawrence short-story The Rocking Horse Winner could be instructive.

  • Jo September 16, 2007 (1:33 pm)

    Bob: As you said, “…Cindi Laws…I have real concerns about following her lead on public projects.”
    As far as the Statue of Liberty issues are concerned, Cindi’s participation has mainly been writting to media voicing her views. I do not condone or support the ‘mean-spirited,’ name-calling rhetoric, and never will.
    Attending future public meetings is where it’s at, Bob. I’ll look forward to seeing you there.
    Jo Ofsthus

  • Kayleigh September 16, 2007 (5:47 pm)

    OMG. I don’t understand why people care this much about a freaking statue.

    Why not take some of the (apparently ample) time, thought, and energy spent niggling over this and give it to something that really matters. Spend an afternoon at the Food Bank. Or have a cup of coffee with a senior at Mt. St. Vincent. Or something.

  • Kathy September 16, 2007 (10:28 pm)

    Kayleigh,
    I care about this issue because I honor volunteers and think volunteer efforts are a valuble part of the community. I live here and walk in my neighborhood often. I regularly visit places such as Richey Viewpoint, Cormorant Park, Weatherwatch Park, Whale Tail Park, Schmitz Park, Alki Playground, the Alki Boardwalk and yes, the statue. I have lived here long enough to have seen each of these places transformed to places greater beauty in large part because of the efforts of community volunteers. When I read a post that makes unsubstantiated accuasations and trashes volunteer efforts for no reason, I can’t help it, I just have to speak up.

  • GenHillOne September 18, 2007 (8:30 am)

    Hate to say it, but I’m with you Kayleigh. I originally was interested in where this project was going and thought I might want to be more involved, but I’m already sick of both sides. Frankly, it’s exhausting to follow the volleys and I don’t really care anymore. I’m off for my periodic trash-pick-up walk on the beach – my own beautification project!

Sorry, comment time is over.