- This topic has 191 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by waynster.
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December 4, 2016 at 4:09 pm #867210
redblackParticipantjan: you’re looking at the wrong end.
dave: i can’t imagine the mental gymnastics you must have to perform to deny that you actually side with a lot of liberals and progressives when it comes to protecting our industries.
but looky here: what the donald said on the campaign trail about protectionism and the cronies he’s stuffing his cabinet with are contradictory.
read my words for once and stop assuming that i must hold the exact opposite position than you do simply because you need an enemy. stop setting up straw men and then flailing about in a show of knocking them down. i’ve said on these fora, ad nauseum and for years, that msnbc and CNN are corporate diatribe.
i don’t watch political commentary and cite it as news.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.
December 4, 2016 at 4:11 pm #867211
redblackParticipantwoo hoo! 8 pages! let’s go for 20.
December 4, 2016 at 11:17 pm #867250
captainDaveParticipantredback: I have no problem differentiating myself from progressive liberals because I despise the ideas of communism. I am much more closely aligned with classical liberalism which is quite the opposite spectrum by todays standards.
Progressives want to protect existing industry with high regulatory barriers that effectively keep competitors out. They want close “partnerships” between government and big business. Wherever you have progressive politics, you have dominant large-scale corporations that own entire market sectors.
I am opposed to TPP for different reasons than socialist-loving Bernie progressives. It’s not just about rallying union workers to march against corporations. Rather its about supporting all people in the US who compete to produce things on a level playing field–business owners, investors and employees alike.
I believe in free trade only with countries of equivalent human rights and moral values. Balanced trade agreements are more appropriate today because it generally forces other countries to improve their own societies at their own expense rather than consolidating wealth to buy up assets in ours. Trump will likely employ the mechanisms of balanced trade in situations where abusive countries have unfair advantages:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/free_trade_vs_balanced_trade.html
I am not sure which “cronies” you are referring to, but it seems to me that Trump is brining in the right experts to restart the competitive free enterprise system. Trump himself admits to participating in crony politics because that was the only path to business success in recent decades due to corrupt politicians. It would not be difficult from his position to see the demise of America and be compelled to do something about it. I hope he and his team are able to fulfill his campaign promises to curtail crony lobbying and instill ethics reform in DC. We shall soon see. I think the DOJ and FBI are going to be very busy when they are free to enforce existing law.
If you distrust left-leaning mainstream media while discrediting news from sources on the right, then are you channeling Paul Harvey or something to get your news? If so, you are perhaps missing one of the greatest triumphs of Western civilization.
By the way, I just watched a great movie on Amazon called “The Enemies Within”. I am sure many of you lefties will dismiss it as “right wing propaganda”. However, this is why Hillary lost. The movie answers a lot of questions and is full of facts that can easily be verified.
December 5, 2016 at 12:31 am #867256
JanSParticipantactually, I do not trust what he says any more than I could pick him up and throw him across the room. So far he’s been good at saying one thing, and then doing the exact opposite…
When it comes down to it, Dave, you make snide comments about “leftists” who only get their news from those dastardly cable stations, CNN, MSNBC, etc….and then you get all of your news from sources that are more right leaning, conservative, you know, those that support what you think you believe. It’s OK for you, but not OK for others? Hah!
December 5, 2016 at 9:05 am #867282
redblackParticipantdave: you’re coming around! yes, a level playing field.
so after 35 years of no import tariffs and no american manufacture of tee vees, radios, cell phones, appliances, etc. and the stagnation of blue collar wages, do you still trust big business to create that level playing field?
they’ve had free reign to do so, and that was the big promise of opening foreign markets, right? all we, the people, got for it was the replacement of good manufacturing jobs with low-paying service jobs. meanwhile, they offshored their profits to avoid american taxation, because they don’t give a sh!t about what happens to us, as long as we can afford to keep buying their goods (on credit, with usurious interest) and paying their share as well as ours.
in other words, the rich got richer – and more influential in congress and controlled the dialog with consolidation of big media – and the workers got the shaft.
and, once again, if you think i believe that we should be protectionist just because i want free stuff or because i want to get rich as easily as possible, then you obviously don’t know me, and the only tool i have to convince you with ain’t working.
frankly, you insult my intelligence on a daily basis.
nonetheless… where do i get my news? from local stations. even the fox affiliate has more thorough and seemingly unbiased delivery of pure news than the big cable and parent networks. c-span is a good source. i fact check with factcheck.org. i compare internet news stories from various sources when they’re linked in these threads. i discredit damn near anything that is written to sway my opinion with anything other than fact and direct quotation.
and i think for myself.
evidently you didn’t bother to read the thread on credible news sources that i started in october.
December 5, 2016 at 9:26 am #867286
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave..
in the first place i have to laugh at what you consider unbiased sites…
however.. from your first link
” it shows that taxes penalize entrepreneurs unlucky enough to be left holding the bill.”
in other words.. those unlucky enough not to be wealthy enough to buy into crony capitalism
the second link says it’s better for Americans when companies move to cheaper labor markets..
but ignores the fact that if Americans don’t have living wage jobs they can’t afford the products manufactured elsewhere at any price…really?
Trump is not leveling the playing field
he is clearing it with a bulldozer- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JoB.
December 5, 2016 at 3:29 pm #867340
captainDaveParticipantJanS: I take in everything. Lefty news is everywhere. Here in Soviet Seattle, you actually need to do some work to find opposing viewpoints.
redblack: I have not changed. Equal opportunity is not the same as forced equality. The original work to “level the playing field” was done by a Republican (Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890). Equal opportunity to compete has been a consistent doctrine of conservative thinking since the inception of this country–and probably back to the Magna Carta through common law. I believe it to be the cornerstone of Western Civilization. This is why I oppose marxism, socialism, fascism, communism and all other collective “isms” out there.
I never trust big business to do anything other than make a profit because that is the purpose of a for profit charter. In an ideal world, big business should never be intermingled with government. But the fact of the matter is that it’s impossible to avoid because of our dependance on technology. This is where government ethics enforcement and a vigilant DOJ, FTC and constitutional Supreme Court keep cronyism under control to the benefit of US citizenry (along with other local, state and federal agencies, of course).
Free trade works fine when there is a natural balance between societies of relatively equal stature (IE Canada, UK, France, Germany). But when one society has the ability to abuse their people or environment (by our standards), then it creates unfair advantages where tariffs are the only viable equalizer until such time that the other county’s standards are raised (such as in the case of Japan and South Korea).
You keep talking about workers getting the shaft from big business monopolization. In fact, everyone is getting the shaft–workers, consumers, entrepreneurs, investors, pension holders, young people, elderly, people of color, people of non-color, women, men, LGBT, etc, etc. (all people except the top tier of these mega conglomerates and their crony government counterparts). The only way to change things without massive economic disruption is to do it methodically. That’s why Trump is bringing in the most qualified people for the task–including the ones who engineered the problems in the first place.
Sorry to offend you, but your news sources are biased. Even Politifact, Factcheck and snopes have proven left leaning political bias due to their passionate liberal leadership and funding sources. You should add AM 570 and AM 770 to your repertoire of local news for better balance. Lars Larson, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, and Rush Limbaugh provide counterpoints on many issues. If you only have time for one, Lars Larson has a mild-mannered temperament for Northwest listeners. There is also a good reason “politically incorrect” Breitbart has risen to be a leading news organization so quickly–they expose a lot of information that others suppress. I like to read both Breitbart and Huffington post for balance on some issues. But most of the time, I like to investigate details from lots of different sources through keyword searches. I also like to listen to Stefan Molyneux’s podcasts on occasion. You don’t have to agree with anything from alternative news sources, but to not consider all positions is, by definition, ignorance.
JoB: I didn’t say I agreed with both articles. They were essentially opposing viewpoints.
December 5, 2016 at 10:11 pm #867375
JanSParticipantYo, Dave “Sorry to offend you, but your news sources are biased” and yours aren’t ? Oh, please…
it’s “repertoire” not “repertoar”
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.
December 5, 2016 at 11:37 pm #867378
captainDaveParticipantJanS: Yes. The news sources I posted have an opposing bias. That’s the point. How can you be informed if you don’t know both sides? There is no non-biased news source for political issues.
thanks for the spellcheck.
December 6, 2016 at 5:18 am #867390
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave
you do realize that Lars Larson, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, and Rush Limbaugh all call themselves entertainers.. not news sources…
December 6, 2016 at 5:44 am #867392
redblackParticipantpolitifact and factcheck are non-profits funded by the annenberg foundation.
any ostensible news organiztion that uses profit as its motivation for “reportage” or commentary has an inherent bias.
see, dave, you are a progressive. now, if you would please stop calling trade protection and taxation socialism – and stop calling me a marxist or whatever – we could actually have a conversation.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.
December 6, 2016 at 6:28 am #867396
waynsterParticipantoh this is good……
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2016/12/05
it gets better…
even the comics are commenting on news sources lol…..
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2016/12/06December 7, 2016 at 8:56 am #867537
waynsterParticipantThey just won’t stop trying to make him look good but I do like sub title….. President of the Divided States of America…..
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/politics/article/Trump-is-Time-magazine-s-Person-of-the-Year-10779716.php
and a lol to help the healing…..
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2016/12/07December 7, 2016 at 3:20 pm #867577
redblackParticipantwaynster, the first thing i noticed when i saw the news this morning was how the M in TIME looks like someone drew horns on the donald’s coiffure.
laughed my ass off.
December 7, 2016 at 5:21 pm #867587
JanSParticipantredblack..consider that wasn’t an accident? ;-)
December 7, 2016 at 6:30 pm #867601
waynsterParticipantYour right red maybe his floppy hair is hiding them horns and time just help out lmfao hmmmmmm wonder if he has a forked tongue and pointy tail give him a pitchfork ….lmao
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by waynster.
December 9, 2016 at 9:44 am #867763
waynsterParticipanthmmmm interesting ……
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/article/Americans-keep-looking-away-from-the-election-s-10638263.php
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/obama-orders-review-of-election-hacking/
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/09/politics/obama-orders-review-into-russian-hacking-of-2016-election/index.html -
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