the week I gave myself to mourn this election has nearly ended

[redblack]

come to think of it, under reagan 3.0, the cost of everything will rise.

the newly re-deregulated insurance industry will collude and fix prices.

same for pharma.

same for cell connectivity.

ditto for cable/tee vee.

same for student loans.

ditto for food.

but not for all the cheap crap you insist on buying at wal-mart, if history is any indicator. oh, no. that plastic consumerism is sacrosanct. we’ll let malaysian kids build your widgets instead of giving that job to american workers and paying living wages for it.

and you bought that gas guzzler because petroleum prices are down? lolz. sell it while you can.

interest rates are rising. do you really think wall strret is going to pay that interest? nope. they’ll pass it on to retail bank consumers. and without usury laws, interest rates for credit cards are going back to the 25% neighborhood.

and, yes, i’ll take the over on that bet.

it can happen here, and it will. and i don’t want to hear any whining when the government you voted to castrate can no longer protect you from corporate predation.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.

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[ernieusafret]

Can’t you guys give it a break for 1 day.

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[redblack]

ernie: no.

and yet some morbid curiosity brought you to WSB politics forum on thanksgiving…

before you remove the mote from your neighbor’s eye, remove the beam from your own.

cheers, and happy thanksgiving.

i mean that sincerely. i hope all of you are well.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.

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[HMC Rich]

Wow. Quite an argument. With nobody giving ground. Happy Thanksgiving you curmudgeons, I mean citizens.

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[JanS]

Nevermind…

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.

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[captainDave]

redblack: you are blaming Trump for the low wages, high debt and wealth concentration we currently have under eight years of Obama’s crony socialism? Trump isn’t even in office yet, so you can blame those conditions on your own leftist establishment. Your ideal economic solution is now being done in Venezuela. You might do some research and find out how well it’s working out for them.

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[captainDave]

JanS: Did you try that Thanksgiving crow recipe I posted for you on November 9th? Of course, the way the markets have been going in anticipation of better economic times, you probably could have hired a french chef to prepare your crow in a way that would make us all envious.

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[JoB]

Captain Dave..

“Thanksgiving started out as the celebration of the surpluses produced from free enterprise capitalism over the failed ideology of socialism”

i was going to ask you to source this.. and then i saw that you did. I have to admit that i had to look up one of the sources.. being unfamiliar with him. What i found was that you chose two sources who have both been criticized for playing fast and loose with actual history.

did you know that? did you care?

you might want to do a little reading about this.

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[JoB]

Jan S

I am not so sure what is so special about thanksgiving that any of us should take the day off from the resistance of innuendos and outright lies passing as truth anywhere we see them.

I just didn’t see them yesterday.. having spent most of the day in bed.

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[JoB]

Captain Dave..

I feel I shouldn’t have to say this and yet it seems I do..

There is a huge difference between opinion pieces that actually source the assumptions upon which they base their argument and opinion pieces which base their arguments on unsourced assumptions.

So when you look at something and it doesn’t have links to source material or a bibliography so you can easily find that source material and analyze it for yourself … you can be relatively certain that the quality of research is poor.

it’s good to remember that when evaluating opinion pieces passed off as actual history like the two you cited.

Truth is not based on whether or not this story fits what you think is real but whether or not the basis for the story can in fact be corroborated with actual facts…

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[redblack]

no, dave. it hasn’t been 8 years of obama. it’s been 35 years of reaganomics that increased our wealth disparity, depressed wages, added to the debt, weakened our socialist government old-age security programs, and gutted our manufacturing sector. the people who control the money hate unions, and rather than spending profit to retool factories to reduce pollution, they cut wages and offshored the jobs.

yes, obama played the same patty-cake game with the obstructionist millionaires in congress in the interest of political expediency, and he earned plenty of ire from the left for it.

i’ll tell you this, though: on the campaign trail trump talked about protectionism, and i honestly hope he believes that. but the way he’s packing his cabinet with the same old GOP cronies, i don’t have a lot of hope. besides, the aristocracy won’t stand for it. he spoke of repatriating trillions in offshore dollars, but that won’t happen if we raise trade tariffs.

jan: sorry to disappoint you. i didn’t realize there was a moratorium.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.

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[captainDave]

JoB: The Stefan Molyneux video is based on the classic book “History of the Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647” by William Bradford (The first governor of Plymouth) (http://www.fdrurl.com/History-of-Plymouth). The link was on his web site if you bothered to look.

I understand your tendency to not trust anything that isn’t spoon-fed to you through your pro-socialism propaganda sources, but try to open your mind to new discoveries so that you are not so bitter about capitalism.

The moral of Molyneux’s and Limbaugh’s message is that socialism doesn’t work. It never has. When you eliminate personal responsibility, it’s human nature to slack off and let others do your share of the work. When everyone does that, nobody works. Under the Obama-Clinton (et al) socialists, America was well on it’s way to becoming one big Plymouth plantation doomed for starvation. Now, with a Trump administration, there is at least a chance for recovery. That’s a lot for thinking people be thankful for.

But on the other hand, socialist hardliners like you can at least have comfort in knowing that Soviet Seattle will continue the march towards despotism for a while longer.

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[captainDave]

redback: Seriously, you liberals are still blaming everything on “Reagonomics”? You seem to always believe more union marxist thuggery is the answer to everything. If so, what happened to Detroit? Do you not understand that the whole idea of “evil” corporations is to make a profit so that greedy pension holders like you don’t sue them for not maximizing stock value? You can’t have it both ways. You guys are what has collectively fueled the crony establishment to eliminate market competition. Now you complain about the results.

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[JanS]

For what it’s worth, I spent yesterday reflecting that I am thankful that I am still alive and that I can see my grandson grow a few more years than I would have. Simple as that.It’s been a tough few years. And yes, while what I feel about this debacle is always with me, as I feel my life will be shortened when my SS and my Medicare is taken away, I didn’t need to come onto this thread and be ignorant like Capt. Dave, as it seems that he has too much time on his hands. I stepped back, and was sad to see people couldn’t just spend the day being thankful for what they have, whether it’s being able to spend the day in bed, spend it with the family, having a great meal (many didn’t). The forum will always be here the next day.

Done. Y’all respond to Dave. It won’t make a difference to him. He still spews his name calling, his ignorance, his lies, his unsourced material, and his hate…yes..his hate. None of what he thinks will happen as he thinks; as he said, Trump is not president yet.One can’t credit him with anything, now, can one (except maybe already reneging on promises…it’s laughable)?

to Dave I say “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.

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[JTB]

JoB, You can’t seriously believe that letting this last bit from cD go unchallenged might possibly enable anyone to think there is a whit of sense in any of it?

The big reveal that noted libertarian poseur/huckster, Stephan Molyneaux is a source of insight for the Capt. should be enough to indicate why he always has a whiny, irrational, contemptuous response to any disagreement. Rush is bit more belligerent in style, but the ignorance, indignation and derision are the same even though Stef is much calmer. Perhaps we can discuss whether that is pure coincidence or more of a telling feature underlying Dave’s attraction to both.

My first exposure to Molyneaux was when he was lambasting Londoners for electing a Pakistani-English mayor as he tearfully announced he could never go back to visit his homeland now that it had been ruined forever. Sniff.

But most telling is that Molyneaux operates much like a cult leader, encouraging even adult followers (assuming he has some) to break off relations with parents who doubt the ways of master Stef. Do you think Dave has deFOO’d his parents, or perhaps he was spared that task if they didn’t live long enough to see him caught up in such sorry foolishness?

In any case, back to the Captain’s previous post, either he doesn’t understand conventional political science terminology, disagrees with that terminology, or is just happy to mess with you.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JTB.

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[JanS]

JTB…2 thumbs up

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.

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[captainDave]

JanS: I am thankful for my ability to see the truth. Are you accusing me of espousing hate so that you can justify your own hatred? It seems to be a pretty common theme for liberals to hate anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

I am also thankful that liberals are delusional because if there were any truth to the things that they imagine, the world would have ended a long time ago.

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[captainDave]

JTB: A socialist mother government seems to be your cult leader. I truly enjoy your entertaining delusions. If you can’t challenge facts, just lie like hell to discredit your opposition!

Instead, why don’t you try to refute the source information I posted (specifically a book written by the governor of Plymouth 400 years ago)? Perhaps tell us ignorant capitalists how you believe America’s first experiment in forced equality wasn’t an abject failure? …and the transition from that mode of governance to rewarding individuals for personal efforts did not, in fact, provide the surpluses celebrated on this Thanksgiving holiday?

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[JoB]

Captain Dave..

when sourcing a book as the basis for your contention that thanksgiving had anything to do with socialism it is generally good to make sure that it was written after the movement emerged…
the “source” mid 1600’s
socialism . at best early 1700’s…

i am pretty sure his “source” preceded the emergence of socialism by about a century..

oops

“The moral of Molyneux’s and Limbaugh’s message is that socialism doesn’t work. It never has.”

Sorry.. but this statement does not stand up to actual facts… and i don’t have to delve into history for this … there are many countries in which versions of socialism work quite well.. today

and then you follow it with some blather about personal responsibility.. which as best i can tell you seem to think applies to other people but not to you. or to the proponents of capitalism.. or some such nonsense.

blah blah blah blah blah…

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JoB.

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[JoB]

JTB..

the quality of the sources of Captain Dave’s rant should have been obvious.. even to Captain Dave..

and no. i don’t expect him to suddenly figure out how to vet a source..

but i do believe in the power of repeating good information … endlessly if necessary..
how else are people going to hear it?

it’s certainly not in the best of interests of our current entertainment trumps facts news delivery system to tell people how to figure out when they are simply advertising

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[JoB]

JTB/

i forgot to answer your better question..
Yes. i do think Captain Dave keeps at it because he thinks he is somehow scoring points or getting to me…
and i also think that he really does think that his recognition really does make something true…

and that makes me really really sad..

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[captainDave]

JoB: What was practiced during the first two years of Plymouth was the basic premise of socialism, communism, communitarianism, collectivism, equalism, share-and-share-alike-ism, or whatever you want to call it. The concept “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” was not invented by Carl Marx. The technical descriptors came long after the inception of the idea. It’s like saying gravity did not exist before Isaac Newton.

Socialism works well for people on the administrative and receiving end. It doesn’t work so well for the people who put in more than they receive. Perhaps someday in the future all production will be done by robotic means and everyone can be on the receiving end? Until then, your way sucks for producers.

Which countries/time periods do you believe socialism worked successfully for all citizens? I am no aware of any.

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[JoB]

Captain Dave

Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand and Belgium
and technically these days China..

as for your definition of socialism.. you might start earlier since the practice of what you call socialism was a fairly common concept in their country of origin…

but hey.. everyone loves a good Thanksgiving fable..

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/holidays/2014/11/thanksgiving_socialism_the_strange_and_persistent_right_wing_myth_that_thanksgiving.html

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[JoB]

Captain dave..

just for you know what and giggles..
i would like to point out that there is a difference between socialists, social democrats and democrats…

and that the socialism you say you abhor is what you count on to save your behind should you run into trouble at sea

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[JanS]

oh, dear Dave….you ASSume that I hate anyone. You? No, I simply don’t give a damn about you and whatever falsehoods (projections) you espouse this time around. That is not the same as hate.

Do you even realize what a lucky SOB you are/have been with those dirty liberals in place for the last 8 years? No…you just whine a lot…again, I say “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.

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