- This topic has 191 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by waynster.
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November 14, 2016 at 2:49 am #864816
JanSParticipantoh,and Dave? we don’t have to accept anything…and that is our right. Thinking back to when a black president was elected, I don’t believe that a whole lot of people on the right “accepted” him…like John Boehner, Paul Ryan, and of course , our fave, Bitch McConnell, who actually said he was dedicating himself to obstruct as long as Obama was president…you mean that type of acceptance? Oh, please…this call for”unity”, getting behind the president-elect…we know it can’t be undone, but, wow, the nerve, asking us all to just accept…to go along to get along…that’s utter bullcrap, and I think you know that.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by JanS.
November 14, 2016 at 3:00 am #864819
jennsitterlyParticipantNicely-written. This election has installed fear not just on people of color but to women who have ever been victimized by society. All I can do is pray for a better America and hope that citizens of the country will look out for one another against racism.
November 14, 2016 at 3:52 am #864821
JanSParticipantNovember 14, 2016 at 8:36 am #864830
woneringnowParticipantCurious to know if you all watched 60 minutes last night and if so what do you think of Trump now?
November 14, 2016 at 10:44 am #864854
JTBParticipantI did watch 60 minutes and it confirmed my sense that Trump is a masterful communicator with a keen understanding of how to present the image he wants to project.
How he presents himself in a staged setting does less to inform my opinion of him as what he has already done relevant to his job: appointing Reince Priebus to do the grinding work of Chief of Staff makes clear he intends to work closely with the establishment GOP while appointing Steve Bannon to direct White House strategy. The latter is frankly unsettling given Bannon’s sympathies with racist, antisemitic and anti-globalist advocates. Those appointments indicate to me that there will be ongoing tension within the Trump White House between those opposing tendencies. When you think about it, that’s a profound elevation for white nationalists.
November 14, 2016 at 11:25 am #864857
captainDaveParticipantJanS: You said: “There is now a whole faction saying that Trump had better be careful, and deliver exactly what he promised ” Did you riot when Obama failed to deliver on his promises? I doubt it. This is where campaign rhetoric meets tempered reality. Our system of government doesn’t allow a president to have absolute power to fulfill unrealistic campaign statements–which are usually blown out of context anyway by an over zealous media. Expect better border security that abides by laws which are already in place (some wall, some fence, and some tech), a curtailment of drug trafficking, deportation of violent and repeat criminals, heightened scrutiny of travelers from conflict zones (as there was for most of our lives), …you get the idea. I don’t think Trump is such a stranger to government as you think. But I believe he will do a better job than most politicians because of his ability to negotiate “win, win” deals. I am looking forward to some deregulation and decentralization of power that will make it easier for small businesses in most places around the country. However, I expect our local leaders to continue to go the opposite direction to crush small businesses out of existence in the name of Progressivism.
Jan, I voted for Obama in 2008 bassed on his campaign promises and opposition to Bush’s big government crony economic policies. Obama failed to deliver and I voted for Romney in 2012. I “personally” impeached Obama halfway through the second term because he was clearly running a destructive agenda for America. You can “not accept Trump” as your president all you want. And you are right for now because he is not even in office yet. It seems sort of childish not to be willing to see what develops in his first term. The alternative is a body socialist revolution that certainly won’t result in a better living situation for anyone.
JTB: What specific credible evidence do you have that Bannon is racist and antisemitic? I do agree that he is an anti-globalist like everyone else who voted for Trump. Communism and Socialism isn’t a race.
November 14, 2016 at 12:15 pm #864870
JKBParticipantEnglish is such an ambiguous language – including many words with multiple (sometimes opposite) meanings. Like ‘accept’.
It means ‘be comfortable with’, and JanS can refuse that all she wants. Also ‘agree that something is true’, and refusing to accept an observed fact is known as ‘delusional’. In the spirit of decency, let’s assume JanS is refusing to accept Trump in just the former sense. Unless she says otherwise…
Everyone here seems to speak English well enough to already know all this. So why is there sniping on the subject? Fry some of those bigger fish.
November 14, 2016 at 1:11 pm #864874
JoBParticipantI understand that this election was lost..
i even know this loss is far more significant than a football match..
that the next election won’t turn things around
that when it comes to the rule of law it takes generations.. if we are lucky.
i even know who the biggest loser were and why.does anyone really expect me to celebrate that?
or to look for some mythical silver lining?November 14, 2016 at 1:29 pm #864879
JKBParticipantLooking for discussion of voter suppression was disappointing. Various sources state it as a given, as if everybody knows it as a fact.
Maybe a little suppression is a good thing: it impacts a candidate who’s dependent on specific groups far more than one whose appeal is broad-based. I don’t mean to support it exactly – just noting a surprising consequence.
And it’s not obvious that every ‘suppressed’ vote would have gone to the same side. Or that we’re talking about enough votes to throw a couple of swing states. This could be a serious issue or just a molehill. I’d love to see 538 do a piece; I don’t have the data to do it myself.
November 14, 2016 at 1:42 pm #864882
JanSParticipantJKB…Trump is a novice…Ryan will pull out all the stops, and I’m hoping that Trump doesn’t turn into a “yes” man because he doesn’t have the knowledge to counter. I’m not delusional…and suggesting that (sort of like Dave says that liberalism is a mental disorder – words matter) is insulting, just because I have feelings/thoughts one way and you another? I know how this can probably affect me personally, and I can bitch as much as I want, 1st Amendment and all. I rely on SS to live(actually pays my rent), and I rely on Medicare strongly, as I am an organ recipient, and the care for that is very, very expensive, especially the immune suppressing drugs. I’m also 69, and I continue to work part time in a physical job because I have bills.It is becoming very difficult to do so. If I lose or have reduced SS, and if Paul Ryan gets his way and finally kills Medicare (he’s ringing his hands as we speak), I will most likely literally die, since I cannot afford the cost. One drug, per month, without medicare costs almost $2000.00. And I take more than one.
So, excuse me if I’m not happy with the outcome of this. I suppose you have no skin in the game. Many of us seniors do..our lives…
You are a male person, likely white…what rights will you have taken away? Women of all ages will be affected…and LGBTQ, and minorities, and one whole group of people affected simply because of their religion. The fact that none of these things, including voter suppression(gerrymandering?) does not affect YOU, does not mean that it does not exist.
And if this discussion bothers you so much, why are you still here?
- This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by JanS.
November 14, 2016 at 2:01 pm #864883
JanSParticipantDave http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-promises-idUSKBN1362AC
you get your news from Breitbart…of course you don’t believe that he is any of those things. They’re a pretend news source…
but people can believe what they will, of course…even you. I just wonder about all these people who keep saying that they can’t find anything to point in this direction, or that direction…does your internet not work? Or does it only work when it’s denigrating Obama, etc…as it has for years, telling stories about him being Muslim (some still believe that), or from Kenya…wow, he’s black, must be from there, or claiming that his birt certificate was a fraud, and still is.
You see, you call out liberals for not “accepting”…and conveniently forget about those on your side of the fence…lol..about that fence…you’ve heard Trump now saying that it might not be a solid wall now, that, yes, there could be fences…that will surely get a rise out of his supporters, huh…
November 14, 2016 at 5:23 pm #864923
JKBParticipantAnyone can do news counterpoint:
For myself, I’d question the ongoing street crowds and saturation media coverage. It’s not as if they’re proposing an alternative.
November 14, 2016 at 6:55 pm #864928
JanSParticipantFox “News”…not the best source that you can quote, I’m afraid. If that’s where you get all your information, I understand you a little better now. I purposely avoided CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, as those on the right view them as slanted. Same with Salon, Slate, Huffington Post. So, JKB…have any other sources (besides Breitbart…that doesn’t count)
November 14, 2016 at 7:17 pm #864931
redblackParticipanti guess you can call those marches and protests “mob rule” – if you side with aristocrats. but no one is trying to overturn the election.
people burning dumpsters and destroying property in portland are criminals, pure and simple, and they should be treated as such.
peaceful marches, for whatever reason, are our god-given right as americans, and i’ll be damned if i’ll let you berate that right simply because you don’t agree with the message, dave. people have fought and died for that right.
if hillary – or that jack-booted stalinist, bernie sanders – had won and the tea party started marching after the election, you’d be cool with that, right?
i would, and i’d defend their right to do so.
November 14, 2016 at 11:46 pm #864961
captainDaveParticipantJoB: I hope you find your silver lining as many of us had to do over the last 20 years of destructive leftist dominated politics. I think the best news for you is that you still have a country.
JanS: I would encourage you to do a lot more reading outside of the progressive bastions of liberal politics. I think you will find a lot more comfort in knowing the truth instead of the manipulative lies George Soros is disseminating.
redblack: You pose a fair question. If the tables were turned and Hillary won, would I support a revolution? I am not sure if I can answer that. I believe that the Clintons almost stole the election through fraud, subversion, media lies and corruption in treasonous collaboration with foreign powers. The two scenarios are quite different since a Hillary presidency could have essentially ended our constitutional republic for all the reasons I talked about in multiple threads. Under that possible condition, then I supposed I might support a well regulated militia to fight against whatever tyranny that would inevitably develop. On the other hand, if I were convinced that the majority of the electorate wanted socialism/communism, then I would have to accept it.
November 15, 2016 at 2:28 am #864981
JanSParticipantDave…the truth…all a matter of opinion, I’m thinking. Arrogance at thinking that your way is the only way…goes in both directions.
and you are definitely arrogant, firmly believing that only you have the truth..with a little hypocrisy thrown in.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by JanS.
November 15, 2016 at 5:16 am #864987
redblackParticipantwow, dave. when you hit rock bottom intellectually, you start digging, huh?
trump’s got you hooked through the… purse.
a lot of americans are terrified that trump and the republican government will crack down on them and that corporate fascists and militant christians will will start taking away their rights. are they justified in forming a militia?
people in the cities have guns, too, you know.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by redblack.
November 15, 2016 at 5:59 am #864989
redblackParticipantas far as voter suppression goes, it has become a plank for right wing christians. paul weyrich freely admitted in 1980 that the larger the turnout, the worse republicans fare:
Paul Weyrich – “I don’t want everybody to vote” (…: http://youtu.be/8GBAsFwPglw
November 15, 2016 at 7:55 am #864992
JoBParticipantJKB
“Maybe a little suppression is a good thing”as long as it isn’t your vote that is being suppressed?
November 15, 2016 at 7:57 am #864993
JoBParticipantJKB
“Anyone can do news counterpoint:”
Only if they rely only on FOX news for their counterpoint…
November 15, 2016 at 8:05 am #864995
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave
” I think the best news for you is that you still have a country.”
No dave. you have a country
i have second class citizenship.. all of the obligations but greatly restricted opportunities and rights…
and i’m white so i enjoy the best of those restricted rights and opportunities
for people of color.. any color other than white .. or immigrants (legal or otherwise… children born in the United States as United States citizens are now being referred to as anchor babies which separates them from other babies born here and may well lead to dismissal of their rights as citizens) .. or people who publicly speak more than one language.. or people who wear the symbols of any religion excepting that of the cross.. or.. those rights and/or opportunities .. even if they are US citizens .. are far more restricted than mine.
the notion that the silver lining is that i won’t somehow be thrown out of this country.. as though that were the winner’s option in this winner take all society… is not even amusing.
November 15, 2016 at 8:24 am #864999
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave
“I believe that the Clintons almost stole the election through fraud, subversion, media lies and corruption in treasonous collaboration with foreign powers. The two scenarios are quite different since a Hillary presidency could have essentially ended our constitutional republic for all the reasons I talked about in multiple threads.”
first.. let me point out that you believing something is true and it being true are two entirely different things…
second.. let me point out the the Presidential candidate that has been shown to have (possibly) treasonous collaboration with foreign powers wasn’t Clinton… but Comey suppressed that active investigation because he didn’t want to influence the election.. And that your President elect wants to continue that collaboration through business by arming his children who will continue that business with top secret US intelligence information. How could that possibly go wrong?
third.. this “constitutional republic” as you choose to refer to our government hinges on a document known as our constitution and the resulting body of law that governs the rights and responsibilities of both American citizens and foreign nationals living in this country… putting the rule of law in the hands of a man who has demonstrated repeatedly that he will bend it to it’s breaking point and will use the legal system to bully anyone who can’t afford sustained litigation won’t impact the legitimacy or credibility of our republic?
Come now.. even you should be able to see that arming Trumps kid’s with top secret briefings before sending them out into the world to use that information as negotiation tool probably isn’t in our country’s best interests…
And that a legal system in which the laws are enforced against some but not all is a very slippery slope if you find yourself on the wrong end of any entity that knows how to manipulate and abuse power..
but hey.. it’s all cool..
as long as this country’s future is in the hands of the “right” people…you keep telling yourself that .. right up until the point that you figure out that you weren’t one of the “right” people after all..
what will you do then .. when you have alienated and hobbled those who could and would have stood up for you?
November 15, 2016 at 8:28 am #865000
waynsterParticipantNovember 15, 2016 at 8:33 am #865001
JoBParticipantby the way. for those who wonder..
i am no longer politically active. I can not support any political movement in this country that does not have it’s base in equality for all…
and that includes the group that is currently engaged in continuing it’s attempts to overthrow the current democratic party… or perhaps to create another based on worker’s rights but conveniently ignoring equality for all.
it’s not that i don’t think that any political group opposing the current swing further to the right is a good thing.. it’s that i think that investing in any political movement right now that does not align with my core values is a waste of my personal time and effort.I have invested half a century in the struggle for equality for all only to see it sabotaged by political infighting disguised as ideology by people who were willing to gamble with America’s future and lost. Doubling down on that bet is not good strategy.
but that does not mean that i will be silent.
As long as it is possible for me to speak.. i will do so.
November 15, 2016 at 11:09 am #865034
captainDaveParticipantJoB: Congratulations on your retirement from the pursuit of forced equality (Socialism).
Like Margaret Thatcher said: “The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. With half the country living off the efforts of the other half, it seems we have arrived at that tipping point.
Of course, I will continue my political advocacy for individual freedom, equal opportunity and blind justice.
JanS: Call it arrogant if you want, but my truth seems to have won the national election.
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