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June 9, 2008 at 9:14 pm #626965
soclwrkrinmotnMemberBecause, House, when I tried to introduce myself, you ignored me. I was quite ready to chat. So, instead, I bought you a drink. I believe Jen V thought I was silly for doing that, and perhaps she was right.
As for the term, “homophobia,” I dislike it too for the following reasons:
Antigay attitudes cannot reasonably be considered a phobia in the clinical sense. Indeed, the limited data available suggest that many heterosexuals who express hostility toward gay men and lesbians do not manifest the physiological reactions to homosexuality that are associated with other phobias (Shields & Harriman, 1984).
Second, using homophobia implies that antigay prejudice is an individual, clinical, entity rather than a social phenomenon rooted in cultural ideologies and intergroup relations. Moreover, a phobia is usually experienced as dysfunctional and unpleasant. Antigay prejudice, however, is often highly functional for the heterosexuals who manifest it. Just not for the rest of us.
And with you, House, and with many of the folks on this blog, I am seeing a lot of heterosexism. Like institutional racism and sexism, heterosexism pervades societal customs and institutions, operates through a dual process of invisibility and attack. (Sound familiar?) Homosexuality usually remains culturally invisible; when people who engage in homosexual behavior or who are identified as homosexual become visible, they are subject to attack by society.
Sounds like the issue in a nutshell, eh? Amazing, I submitted a paper on this just last week. Ah, the wonders of a psych program: it manifests in real life.
JenV, I will buy YOU a drink on the 14th. I say we need to be there.
And House, let’s debate. I am more than ready…ese.
June 9, 2008 at 9:17 pm #626966
TheHouseMemberDamn, there sure is alot of hate in her words. Sounds to me like you’re a pretty miserable person. Sucks to be you.
I will be there Saturday simply to knock back a few beers/drinks, not to start arguments. I’ve been nothing but but cordial to everyone at every event and really could care less if you show.
I know that I can have these conversations in person and remain civil. It’s a shame that you can’t seem to do the same!
June 9, 2008 at 9:25 pm #626967
soclwrkrinmotnMember*puzzled* Hate? From who? Anger, I see. Frustration too. However, who stirred this up?
June 9, 2008 at 9:59 pm #626968
TheHouseMembersoclwrkrinmotn, my last post was not directed at you. It was directed at JenV (we must have been submitting comments at exactly the same time).
In addition, I never remember you attempting to speak with me. The bartender told me that someone bought me a drink and I asked who. He replied, I’m not sure if it’s a man or a woman. That’s when I assumed it was from you.
It was a tasty drink.
June 9, 2008 at 10:08 pm #626969
soclwrkrinmotnMemberI know. If you’d used that pronoun, we would have had a row. But I don’t see the hate. Just anger, and justified anger too.
*laughs*
That’s freaking funny. Insulting, and you know that. But funny.
Ah, I did. You looked over my head. Maybe I am just too short. Shall I kick you in the kneecap next time?
June 9, 2008 at 10:31 pm #626970
JenVMemberNo hate here, and I am a perfectly happy person, thank you very much. Yes, anger. Anger that people like you continually stir the pot, then claim ignorance or that you were trying to make people think as your basis for saying hateful things. It’s the same MO on all your posts. It is the ultimate display of passive agressive bullsh*t and I am frankly exhausted at having to see it on every post coming from you.
This is the final say I will have on it. As I said before, I don’t waste my time with idiots in real life, and I certainly wont here anymore. Here or at happy hour on the 14th, because frankly, I don’t want to create a scene in my favorite bar.
If I do decide to come, I will not “debate” with you as soc will- if I decide to come it will be for a nice, relaxing afternoon- not “debating” with someone who doesn’t know the meaning of the word. Debate does not mean “I am right and you are wrong” – it is an interchange of ideas and points of view. Unfortunately for someone who probably watches WAY too much Fox News, debate is yelling at someone and patting themselves on the back when they think they’re right.
June 9, 2008 at 10:40 pm #626971
soclwrkrinmotnMember“Unfortunately for someone who probably watches WAY too much Fox News, debate is yelling at someone and patting themselves on the back when they think they’re right.”
Awesome and apt. Unfortunately, I like to debate, even when they get insulting with me. Maybe even more so after they insult me.
JenV, might I borrow that? Or should we go to OUR favorite pub? (Skylark or EEB have my vote.)
June 9, 2008 at 10:47 pm #626972
JenVMembersoc, you got it! :) on all counts.
June 9, 2008 at 11:09 pm #626973
soclwrkrinmotnMemberHehehe. A renegade back party. I like it.
I already quoted you at work, and it was well received. :)
June 9, 2008 at 11:22 pm #626974
RSMemberSkylark, though far from my house, is a good spot for renegades! Can we just have renegade corner at BPP? I don’t want to be yelled at for trying to self-select and hang out with people I identify with. :)
June 9, 2008 at 11:38 pm #626975
JenVMemberit’ll be like the cool kids table in the lunch room at high school. anyone got a ciggie I can put behind my ear to look tough?
June 10, 2008 at 1:42 am #626976
soclwrkrinmotnMemberI quit smoking, but I want to pretend to be cool too!
June 18, 2008 at 2:38 am #626977
TheHouseMemberJust because.
June 18, 2008 at 2:45 am #626978
AnonymousInactiveJune 18, 2008 at 2:52 am #626979
JoBParticipantTheHouse..
thanks for bumping this.. but only because there is obviously another thread i would have missed.. the politics take on this.
if you want to have a straight gathering.. please go ahead.. tho i think you would have more exclusive crowd if you threw a bash for the underrepresented republicans on the forum:)
and no.. sadly i probably wouldn’t make the time to attend.. even if i was welcome.. which my own description, i wouldn’t be:)
June 18, 2008 at 7:55 am #626980
Bikefor1MemberI originally read the post header as “South” West Seattle. As in, let’s form a group for those of us who live in the Southern section of WS.
We need to feel the love too. All the action and attention seems to go to the West Seattle closest to the ‘Big City’. Isn’t that where Hizzoner lives? (rrrrraspberry)
Let’s do it! Who’s with me?
June 18, 2008 at 2:47 pm #626981
JenVMemberBut I live in central west seattle. now I feel excluded! waaaah!
June 18, 2008 at 2:53 pm #626982
JoBParticipantJune 18, 2008 at 4:16 pm #626983
keleesoMemberMe too! South West Seattle-ites unite. Hey – I have an idea…lets unite with the other West Seattle-ites and REALLY have a party!
June 18, 2008 at 4:49 pm #626984
charlabobParticipantUnite? Nah…that can’t be any fun. :-)
The following threadjack, in one posting, brought to you by too much caffeine in the morning.
I went to look up my favorite line from a folk song, which seemed somehow wildly INappropriate to these conversations, so how could I resist?
“I don’t like anybody very much …”
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_kingston_trio/the_merry_minuet.html
This comes from the Merry Minuet — read the lyrics and you’ll be horrified, as I was, by how relevant they still are.
The song was written not by the Kingston Trio and not by Tom Lehrer, but by Sheldon Harnick — the lyricist of Fiddler on the Roof, among other things. He obviously has a more, um, realistically dark side.
June 18, 2008 at 4:54 pm #626985
JoBParticipantcharla..
i am reading the Kabul Beauty School again…
it reminds me that even in the midst of life threatening duress and oppression, humanity finds expression.
I think we should unite because circumstances haven’t changed enough… and injecting humanity into our lives is the only response we have to what we have been unable to change…
because that alone creates change.
June 18, 2008 at 5:08 pm #626986
charlabobParticipantJoB, I completely agree with you about unity — I was having a bit of overcaffeinated fun (but you knew that :-)). The Merry Minuet *is* my all time favorite “folksong not written by Tom Lehrer,” and I use any excuse to propagate it.
I haven’t read Kabul Beauty School, but it, along with “Teaching Lolita in Tehran” — which was one of my favorite memoirs of all time, are both suspected of being less-than-faithful to the truth. Don’t know the details about the Beauty School, but here’s the NYT link about Lolita:
What’s funny, to me, is that I’m not sure the truth of a “memoir” matters if the underlying philosophy creates thought and discussion.
OTOH, I was hideously offended by the suburban Jewish woman (living in Portland) who pretended to be a white kid raised in a black foster home in the South Central LA ghetto. She wrote a highly praised before it was debunked memoir about her life. I was especially upset because I bought the book two days before it was debunked, and couldn’t return it. :-)
June 18, 2008 at 5:16 pm #626987
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I just finished Kabul Beauty School.
It was a good book. I hope you enjoy it.
charla – I agree with you regarding the truth of a *memoir*. I remember James Frey received a lot of bad publicity surrounding his *memoir*, “A Million Little Pieces”. But the book, in my opinion, was truth, regarding an addicts life and struggles. Even though the entirety of the novel was not completely factual, it spoke the truth.
His second book “Bright Shiny Morning” is a great story (if you could call it that). He is certainly unique in his writing style.
June 18, 2008 at 5:38 pm #626988
charlabobParticipantYup, the problem is with the word “memoir” — not with the content.
Memoir: a record of events written by a person having intimate knowledge of them and based on personal observation. A first person record of events.
Obviously, Frey wrote a “memoir” because “yet another book by an arrogant white guy about someone else’s life” wouldn’t have sold as well and certainly wouldn’t have gotten him on Oprah.
Obviously, the woman from Portland wrote a first person “memoir” of a white kid raised in a black foster family because “yet another book by an arrogant white suburban kid about going to the ghetto on Saturdays to score crack and tease the gang bangers” wouldn’t have sold as well. Though I would have bought that one too.
The concept of “truth” is getting blurred and, on alternate days, I mind a lot and not so much.
This deserves to be another thread. What is truth and, ultimately, does it matter or is the world too complex? Or is my head going to explode before I figure it out? :-)
June 18, 2008 at 5:43 pm #626989
charlabobParticipantThe Portland Fake Memoir and Memoirist is Margaret Jones-Seltzer, “Love and Consequences”:
Even more depressing, I googled “Portland fake memoir” to find it and turns out there are three distinct fake memoirs in the Portland (Ore) news this year — two from academia and this one. SIGH!
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