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December 12, 2012 at 1:17 am #605875
Genesee HillParticipantFYI:
Seattle Archbishop J. Peter Sartain has laid down Roman Catholic church law on same-sex marriages now allowed under Washington civil law: The church will have nothing to do with such “marriages” — apostrophes courtesy of the Archbishop.
December 12, 2012 at 4:05 am #779539
skeeterParticipantAs a Christian Catholic in Seattle, I can share this. This is a contentious issue in the church. People of good faith have come to different conclusions. It is very painful for many.
As far as the recent referendum, though, official Catholic teaching has remained consistent on the topic of marriage. The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman. That’s the teaching in every state, not just Washington. Were some folks thinking that the church would change its teaching in light of the recent referendum?
December 12, 2012 at 4:07 am #779540
skeeterParticipantAs a Christian Catholic in Seattle, I can share this. This is a contentious issue in the church. People of good faith have come to different conclusions. It is very painful for many.
As far as the recent referendum, though, official Catholic teaching has remained consistent on the topic of marriage. The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman. That’s the teaching in every state, not just Washington. Were some folks thinking that the church would change its teaching in light of the recent referendum?
December 12, 2012 at 6:27 am #779541
DBPMemberAs I understand it, the last major update the Church did was Vatican II. Since then there have been a few doctrinal shifts and some belated apologies (“So sorry, Galileo,” “Mea culpa indigenous Americans”) but nothing sweeping. And there doesn’t seem to be any indication that there will be, so don’t go looking for any changes to the priesthood or sacraments. As a Catholic, you can still support gay marriage in private. You can probably even talk about it in church if you want. But that’s as far as it’s gonna go.
In any case, gay rights folks won’t be spending any time on the conservative churches; after watching the ACA-birth control debacle play out, they know better. What they will be spending their time on is trying to get the Supreme Court to do a Roe v. Wade-style end run that will force red states to come into line on gay marriage. I’m betting that won’t work, but even if it does work, it’ll be a Pyrrhic victory, just like Roe v. Wade turned out to be.
What do I mean by that?
There are parts of the country where Roe v. Wade is now moot. Sure, you might have a technical right to get an abortion in those places, but you still can’t get one, because no abortion providers will set up shop in such hostile territory. This should come as a surprise to no one. It’s simply what you get when you try to change thousands of years of culture and tradition by fiat.
[See also “failure of Reconstruction in the South”]
Gay marriage could play out like that, too. If it is imposed on states where the majority sentiment is against it, there’s a good chance of a backlash.
December 12, 2012 at 7:32 am #779542
HMC RichParticipantIf this is true, and time may tell, then this may make not only the Catholic Church (far into the future) but other faiths change their mind.
December 12, 2012 at 7:55 am #779543
dobroParticipantNo religion is going to change its mind against gay-hating due to science.
I don’t think there’s going to be a sweeping decision that mandates marriage equality. The Supreme Court will, I believe, restrict the Prop 8 decision to affecting CA only and may strike down DOMA, but that doesn’t mandate anything. It will open up federal benefits to all married couples but I think the court will jigger their decision so it will still be a state-by-state decision on marriage standards.
December 12, 2012 at 4:03 pm #779544
sb in wsMemberI don’t care what the church says. They are not the ones handing out marriage licenses. We need to stop denying someone’s rights based on a religion. Sorry but I get sick of hearing what the Catholic church feels about this subject because it will always be the same.
My wife and I took part in a beautiful ‘mass’ wedding on Sunday at the Lake Union Café. So much love on that day with all of us getting married. Incredible amount of love getting our license at 12:01am days before from people we don’t even know. What is so bad about that?
December 12, 2012 at 4:54 pm #779545
KenParticipantTherefore, if the earthly power errs, it shall be judged by the spiritual power … but if the supreme spiritual power errs it can be judged only by God, and not by man … Therefore we declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.
— Pope Boniface VIII, in the 1302 bull Unam Sanctam,
It is not only vain, but wicked, in a legislator to frame laws
in opposition to the laws of nature, and to arm them with the terrors of death. This is truly creating crimes in order to punish them.
–THOMAS JEFFERSON 1779
December 12, 2012 at 5:29 pm #779546
Spring ChickenMemberDid anyone expect the Catholic Church to change overnight, just because we passed this new law in Washington? Why join or continue in any church that has a major conflict with your life and your personal spiritual beliefs, when so many once-miserable former Catholics have become happy Episcopalians! (Or agnostics, lol.)
Maybe OT but I was profoundly moved and spiritually uplifted by the outpouring of love during the wonderful public same-sex weddings this past weekend. Thanks and blessings to all who shared their special moment!
December 13, 2012 at 5:16 pm #779547
Michael WaldoParticipantThe Catholic church does not have a moral leg to stand on as long as they deny and attack victims of priestly sexual abuse.
They should get their own house in order before telling the rest of us how to live.
December 13, 2012 at 6:12 pm #779548
DBPMemberThere seems to be some confusion about the nature of Roman Catholicism.
Catholicism is not what you would call a “lifestyle religion.” It doesn’t exist to make people feel good about themselves. It exists to keep people in line.
Same goes for Lutheranism, Pentecostalism, Mormonism . . .
Hinduism, Judaism, Islam . . .
Now maybe you don’t think you need to be kept in line, and maybe you’re right. But the fact is there are lots of people who DO think they need to be kept in line, and conservative religion is here for them.
If you feel like God wants you to do whatever makes you feel good, either join the Unitarians or just drop out of the church scene all together. But don’t try to convert conservative Christians to the Church of Self-Love and Personal Freedom, because that’s just a waste of time.
–Which is a sin in everybody’s book.
December 13, 2012 at 6:55 pm #779549
365StairsParticipantPerhaps the Catholic Church should clean up it’s own house before it goes peeking in the windows of others… ” “
Hypocrits…
God Loves EVERYONE!
….Recovering Catholic
December 13, 2012 at 7:09 pm #779550
skeeterParticipantHold on before you call the Catholic Church “conservative.” Where are you getting this from?
True or false: The Catholic Church supports progressive taxation. The rich should pay not only more tax, but tax at a higher rate, than the poor/middle class.
True or false: The Catholic Church supports universal healthcare coverage as a basic right.
True or false: The Catholic Church teaches that society has a particular obligation to protect the most vulnerable? (ie, poor and old.)
Outside of abortion, the Catholic Church and the conservative right agree on very, very few social issues.
December 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm #779551
Spring ChickenMemberpeep
December 13, 2012 at 9:30 pm #779552
KenParticipantcatholic:
Greek: katholikos = universal
Devout believers are safeguarded in a high degree against the risk of certain neurotic illnesses; their acceptance of the universal neurosis spares them the task of constructing a personal one.
— Anatole France
links skeeter?
The Catholic church has been many things over the centuries, and occasionally social justice reared its head, but it is rather quickly stomped flat amid expressions of regret from the clerical leadership.
December 13, 2012 at 9:51 pm #779553
KenParticipantDecember 14, 2012 at 2:00 am #779554
Genesee HillParticipantI remember going to Sunday School at the young age of 4 years old. All the way through confirmation as a teen. Yes, Lutheran. Not Catholic.
I was taught that “God is love”. I was also taught that if I didn’t believe in this loving God, that I would burn in hell for eternity.
Quite the deal, eh?
December 14, 2012 at 4:25 am #779555
FionaEnzoParticipantNuns on the bus were the ones stepping out to address social justice issues, not the hierarchy. And they set up a papal investigation to rein in a larger group of nuns espousing a progressive agenda, Leadership Conference for Women Religious. Lots of lip service by the hierarchy but the actual heavy lifting is being done by the nuns, who are viewed with suspicion by the oh so out-of-touch well-heeled hierarchy (no vow pf poverty for those boyz).
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