Home › Forums › Open Discussion › RANT: Octo hunting in Cove 2
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November 2, 2012 at 10:25 pm #775954
Dylanm1123MemberBrew, i have stated that i would like to speak to these people. and once again i did not know i was going to offend people with this considering ive seen people do it. that being said, every attempt ive made to be reasonable someone has responded by saying i spell things wrong, i am a punk kid, or im lieing. and once again ide like to state that the octo had no eggs. go look for your self. however i was told never to stand down if i beleiven something, and i wont. no matter how many death threats or fabricated stories you people throw at me.
November 2, 2012 at 11:14 pm #775955
anonymeParticipantInteresting that another blogger spoke to the WDFW and they confirmed that Dylan is actually 17 years old. In an earlier post on this thread (now deleted) he claimed to be 20 years old.
I call that LYING.
Nor do I call threats to go out and “kill another one” (octopus) an attempt at being “reasonable”.
But there’s really no point in wasting another minute talking to, or about, this individual. We really need to be looking at the next step, which is getting the area protected and/or making it illegal to “harvest” (disgusting, cowardly term) these animals during the time they sit on eggs. Someone mentioned a petition of sorts…anyone know the link?
I’m also wondering if more conscientious divers can’t keep an eye on the animals that are left, much as Seal Sitters protects young seals. I realize that seals are protected and octopuses are not, but that shouldn’t prevent a diver from being in an area that just happens to block access to a sitting mom.
November 2, 2012 at 11:19 pm #775956
WSBKeymasterI am almost done with the story that has all that info. Petition link and also how to talk to WDFW in person. Will be up in about five minutes at
November 2, 2012 at 11:20 pm #775957
minarriMemberWell said anonyme. Bring on the petition to make this a protected area.
November 2, 2012 at 11:28 pm #775958
Dylanm1123Membermy birthday is 11/23/92….. im days away from twenty….. im in college….. i have my diploma….
November 2, 2012 at 11:58 pm #775959
GinaParticipantThis may be someone posing, could be trying to get a reaction from people. Sign the petition, ignore those trying to distract from it.
November 3, 2012 at 12:18 am #775960
brewParticipantDylan,
It’s not about backing down. It’s about compromise. Being defensive and arguing the point is not going to get you anywhere. It will only make things worse. Like I said before, sometimes you just need to swallow the pride and bury the ego to get the results that you want.
I know you didn’t do anything illegal and truly believe you don’t feel like what you did was wrong, nor expected this type of outcry. However, it is how you precede that will determine the outcome. This could, and probably will, have an effect on the rest of your life. It’s important to nip it before it gets even worse. The only way you are going to achieve this is discussing it with those that are reasonable and by being proactive vs. reactive.
There are 2 groups of people involved, those that will threaten and harass you regardless, and those that are trying to reach out and help resolve the situation. It’s my opinion that you need to latch on to those that are reaching out. Maybe offering to be the first to sign the petition to make popular dive sites a “No Take Area”.
@ anonyme
“But there’s really no point in wasting another minute talking to, or about, this individual.”
You couldn’t be more wrong.
November 3, 2012 at 12:45 am #775961
sunsetMemberbrew and kitsapdiver,
How do you find such compassion in your hearts for someone who pulled an animal out from its home and repeatedly punched it?
People don’t punch things to get food. People punch things to hurt them. Hunters kill things as humanely as they can. They don’t punch animals.
The talk about some kind of legal protection for gpo’s at site is interesting, but I am more concerned that someone chose our community as a place to do something gut-wrenchingly cruel, and he has said that he will do it again.
November 3, 2012 at 12:57 am #775962
lamontParticipantResponding to this:
“For one, i didnt harvest this octo in the dive site. i swam many yards off and just used the dive site as a way in and out of the water.”
I’ve probably 200+ dives in cove 2 and have covered the ground roughly a mile north and south of there with scooters, from roughly 170′ to the surface. Divers use those areas and see the critters there, so we still consider this to be spitting in our face to take an octo from the area.
For the non-divers in the crowd, this also simply strikes me as dylan flat-out lying. He was spotted taking an octo from Cove 2 which is the middle cove with Cove 1 and Cove 3 on either side. He would have had to have kicked hundreds of yards either direction, burning 20-30 minutes of air, to get to the edge of what is the divable area by starting in Cove 2. Plus once you get outside of the divable area the bottom becomes flat and muddy with little structure for octos. He would have then had to drag the octopus hundreds of yards back to Cove 2 to exit — so he is almost certainly lying that he didn’t take the octo out of one of the dens in the dive site which are commonly visited by divers.
I’m positive he took it from one of the dens that are nearly under where the water taxi is, or from the honey bear in between Cove 1 and Cove 2, and this statement that he didn’t take it from the diving area is simply a lie.
November 3, 2012 at 1:58 am #775963
oddrealityParticipantI cannot understand why we allow so much hunting of octos anyway.News said one a day is legal?? Are there that many out there? Is that true that someone ,anyone,can hunt one per day if they have a license?
November 3, 2012 at 2:10 am #775964
hammerheadParticipantNovember 3, 2012 at 2:24 am #775965
casimir81MemberI just listened to this story on the Ron and Don show tonight. I think Bob Bailey and some people of the diving community should be worried about an upcoming lawsuit. It does not matter if they agree with what was done with the octopus or not it was completely legal. Dylan followed the Fish & Wildlife rules to the T.
“OCTOPUS
Must be caught with hands or instrument which does not penetrate the OCTOPUS, except that octopus taken while angling with hook and line may be retained.
ALL WATERS
except MARINE AREA 12 GIANT PACIFIC Year-round No min. size. Daily limit 1. NO CHEMICALS OR IRRITANTS ALLOWED.
MARINE AREA 12 ALL SPECIES CLOSED”
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/shellfish/statewide_rules.html
No laws were broken and he has been slandered received death threats, and suffered personal and financial loss due to one mans championing of his personal views at the expense of a fisherman that was following the law of Washington State.
There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, first, the person must prove that the statement was false. Second, the person must prove that the statement caused harm. Third, the person must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement
1. It has been stated that the Octopus was female when a) Bob Bailey was not down there and had no way of knowing the sex of the Octopus and b) a fish and wild life official had inspected the octopus and said no laws were broken. The female Octopus statements are lies.
2)Dylan has stated on the radio that he lost his job due to this. Financial harm
3) There could not have been much research put in by Bob Bailey or else he would have known that what Dylan did was completely legal and there was no call to defame him.
If I were a lawyer I would be very interested in this case.
November 3, 2012 at 2:35 am #775966
kootchmanMemberDude, you killed an animal in the equivalent of a petting zoo. Hell of a sportsman.
November 3, 2012 at 3:12 am #775967
singularnameParticipantDoes any good karma get bestowed on this guy if he ends up being the catalyst that officially protects the coves?
November 3, 2012 at 3:22 am #775968
lamontParticipantClearly if Dylan is getting death threats over this that’s one thing.
But while this is legal to hunt these octos, its also perfectly legal to speak out against it. We all have the freedom of speech, particularly divers like Bob Bailey. Bob has the freedom to take the pictures, the freedom to post them. Dive shops in the area have the freedom to deny anyone they like to their shops and their compressors and deny anyone they like training.
This is what happens when you do something which is perfectly legal in the eyes of the law, but which which community standards judge you to be a asshole. And myself and Bob saying that Dylan is an asshole isn’t defamatory, its our opinion, and that is protected first amendment speech.
And the Seattle dive community is surprisingly small and has long memories and he’s going to be banned in a lot of dive shops, he’s going to be banned by a lot of instructors and anyone he dives with is going to have these articles pointed out to him. But far from being a ‘victim’ when he was doing something ‘perfectly legal’ that means that he really should have thought this through a bit more before he did it, and particularly after there was outrage and he decided to announce that he’d come back and do it again.
Sure what he did was legal, but he’s got most of the dive community around puget sound (and a lot of people around the world) who think he’s an asshole who we don’t want to deal with, and nobody can force us to think otherwise or accept him. Legally he doesn’t have a case against us… Although if people are giving him death threats they should stop that crap, immediately.
And if he lost his job over this, then that’s good and its a “teachable moment” for him and nobody can sue anyone over it. That is the consequences of his actions. His employer does not need to employ anyone who is getting bad press all over the news. The fact that its a free country applies to Bob and me, and the dive shops and the news media and his former employers.
November 3, 2012 at 3:29 am #775969
Dylanm1123MemberHammerhead this is for you. yes i did eat the octopus (some of it) and i also gave much of it to my old high school teachers that i often still work with. i still have most of it in my freezer. i will also state that nothing was wasted
for the rest of you. i would like to state that i do regret fishing in the spot i did. but if you saw it the way i did (seeing other fishermen and dive shops not seeming to care when i said i was going to fish it) you wouldn’t have thought there was a problem either. if someone would have just came and told me nicely instead of confronting me bluntly and rudely, i would have released it. however the community (not everyone) felt the actions they took were necessary.
November 3, 2012 at 3:32 am #775970
hammerheadParticipantKooth: GOOOD ONE!!!!
November 3, 2012 at 5:38 am #775971
casimir81Member“And if he lost his job over this, then that’s good and its a “teachable moment” for him and nobody can sue anyone over it. That is the consequences of his actions. His employer does not need to employ anyone who is getting bad press all over the news. The fact that its a free country applies to Bob and me, and the dive shops and the news media and his former employers.”
You do have the freedom to speak what you like. But when lies are told (saying it was a female octopus which seems to have really made it look a lot worse) without credible research and with the intent to harm a person’s reputation it is called libel and that is against the law and has been since before the American Revolution.
It does not matter what you, or I, or Bob Bailey, or even the whole dive community think of him. It is against the law to spread lies that inflict harm.
November 3, 2012 at 5:54 am #775972
lamontParticipantBob claimed that Dylan said that the octo was on eggs. It sounds like when he was confronted that Dylan decided to mouth off, and Bob reported that. And we still only have Dylan’s statement that the octo wasn’t on eggs. This gets into he-said-she-said territory which would immediately get thrown out by any judge in a defamation lawsuit.
And having known Bob for 8 years, I’m going to believe his account that Dylan said that. I don’t know if Dylan was lying that the octo was on eggs just to get a rise out of Bob, or if Dylan is lying now that the octo wasn’t on eggs and it actually was.
Given that I’d be willing to bet money that Dylan pulled the octo out of the diving area and has later lied about it, I’m not all that inclined to believe him. And I suspect that if you put Bob and Dylan before any judge, who is halfway competent at spotting a bullshit artist, I know which one is going to come out on top.
November 3, 2012 at 6:21 am #775973
MaggieMemberPretty much everything Lamont has said is spot on.
Dylan, whether you knew it or not at the time, you went to the most popular dive site in the region, pulled out a 9 foot, 70lb GPO, most likely a female, and beat her to death in front of several divers. Even if you didn’t realize how much your actions offended and upset those people and everyone in the dive community who later heard about it, you do now.
You owe the community a sincere apology. Which I haven’t heard from you yet. And at this point, you’ve lied several times to the media and in your stories on this board so it will be hard to believe you anyway. But give it a shot. The only thing that is going to make this stop is your acknowledgement that you made a huge mistake and you’re really sorry and it won’t happen again. Meaning, you will never hunt in Cove 2, let alone grab an octopus there and beat it to death in front of people. OK? Not too much to ask, I hope.
Maggie
November 3, 2012 at 6:23 am #775974
kitsapdiverMemberDylan,
Thank you for your response. You know sometimes it’s the questions that we don’t even know to ask that jump up and bite us! I’m a young single dude in my 20’s too (although a little later in my 20’s than you) and damn the hardest lesson to learn is learning when to just admit that I just didn’t know! I can be bull-headed sometimes and can probably relate to where you’ve been the last 48 hours.
That being said I still offer the hand that I extended in post 17 above that I will help you meet the right people if you are still interested in hunting in a manner that the community would find ethical.
I think in some regards man you can change the public perception 180 degrees if you sign the petition to protect Cove 2 (not end hunting, just hunting at cove 2) at the link below:
You could become the spokesman for this effort and I could not imagine a more powerful voice for conservation than from someone who learned the hardway!
Additionally as a side note (and not being a hunter I’ll admit I don’t know how relevant this is) please be aware this area has been closed in regards to shellfishing for pollution….
November 3, 2012 at 6:38 am #775975
sunsetMemberHere is public information published elsewhere, a twitter picture posted the afternoon after the killing: http://twitter.com/DaniMayer1/status/264132484248240129
Dylan,
When you say in comment 41 that nothing was wasted, why is so much of the animal visible on the ground? How much of what is on the ground the day after the kill did you eat or otherwise use?
November 3, 2012 at 7:53 am #775976
anotherthoughtParticipantDylan:
I am not in your shoes so I don’t fully understand why you are reacting the way you are. Let me start by saying that I am sorry you or your family have been subject to threats of violence — that is both wrong and uncalled for. And I am the first to agree that you acted in a perfectly legal manner.
But I don’t think legal and right are always the same thing. For example, you say you checked to make sure it was a female with eggs. It actually appears to be legal to take a female with eggs — yet you didn’t want to do that. An example of the difference between legal and right.
I understand how you might not have understood in advance what a big deal it was — and why it was the wrong place — but it sounds like in post 41 you get it.
I was not there for the interaction on the beach so I have no idea how rude you were or how rudely you were treated. This might be hard to hear but some of your own comments have done yourself no favor.
If you truly are doing this for the food (and still have 50# in the freezer), why would you say you plan to go again the next day? If you truly believed it to be a male, why did you say “When he asked me what if it was protecting its eggs, I said well its not now sarcastically.” If you truly take responsibility for your actions, why would you say you had nothing to do with snake and the firecracker — all you did was take and post the photo (how is that nothing?)?
Free advice: This incident and the stuff on your websites has defined you in the minds of many. That isn’t fair — it is out of context and ignores the many good things you have likely done. But it is reality — and litigation would not fix the problem. But accepting the olive branch offered by some, combined with a bit of contrition might go a long way….
November 3, 2012 at 8:29 am #775977
anotherthoughtParticipantCasimir81 (posts 37 and 43):
I hope you don’t plan to sit for the Washington bar exam anytime soon. Pulling a quote from wiki is not the same as understanding the case law in Washington for both libel and SLAPP.
I’ll just leave it at that.
November 3, 2012 at 1:36 pm #775978
anonymeParticipantGood article on NW Sportsman:
http://www.nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/11/02/the-octopus-killer-kid-is-not-a-sportsman/
I’m also troubled by the narcissistic tone of the hunter’s posts. The lying, combined with a strong sadistic bent, seem to indicate a personality devoid of either compassion or an awareness of consequences. This is indicated not simply by the act of bludgeoning the octopus in front of horrified onlookers, but the almost glib description of a cow writhing on the ground after “a friend” shot her in the head – as well as the firecracker and snake report. If any of this is true (most of it reported by the hunter himself) this paints a troubling picture.
I’ve lived on a farm where animals were butchered, and the farmer (my uncle, whose family had been farming for generations) always approached butchering with dread. There was no fascination with suffering, and a pall fell over the homestead for several days after a slaughter.
Anotherthought has it right: expressing a personal opinion and/or discussing a report made second-hand is not libel. If it were, there could be no evening news.
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