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March 13, 2008 at 5:06 pm #617117
JoBParticipantvillagegreen…
some people are as freaked out by large groups of oriental teens in baggy pants and what looks like gang attire but really seems to be teen attire these days as they are by the same groups of latino and black youth. or native americans (you can’t call them indians any more… you wouldn’t know who you are talking about) or.. any group of color…
in my day.. (btw.. i hate how that sounds)… back when stereotypes were every bit as prevelant… it was greasers.. brylcream and leather jackets and girls who wore really tight pants and their boyfriend’s sweatshirts or jackets… oh.. and pointy toed high heeled shoes…
but the stereotypes were there.. i just grew up where there weren’t so many people of any color.
however, I can remember my mother having a fit because my little sister held hands crossing the street with a little oriental boy.. the only one in town.. and she was all of 6 at the time… (my sister).
You can hold hands in public now without much notice.. but the stereotypes and prejudices still percolate beneath the surface.. generally connected with fear of anything not like you.
i used the “gang” example because it was easy.. and because it is easier to see that we aren’t so quick to jump to the conclusions of gangs when the kids involved are white.
we should be.. but we aren’t.
And that is racism still percolating…
March 13, 2008 at 5:21 pm #617118
rs261MemberI know where this is going…the term Oriental is used for objects, not people. Asian is the PC term.
March 13, 2008 at 5:32 pm #617119
JoBParticipantLOL…
i am so not pc .. i live it.. but i have failed pc 101 more than once…
see what i mean about taking things out of context?
and i actually think most of the time before i write.
my apologies if any of my terms or phrases taken out of context offend anyone…
i do try to be gracious… even when i am offensive:0
speaking of offensive.. i have started that McCain thread and noone is biting…
i feel like a fisherman on a sunny day;->
March 13, 2008 at 5:59 pm #617120
AnonymousInactiveMarch 13, 2008 at 7:07 pm #617121
KayleighMemberWow, Jo, you’re right again. I don’t really like Obama and I am very unsatisfied. (Actually, donating to him out of protest for Hillary campaigning in the gutter was almost as satisfying as donating to Edwards.)
I’d appreciate respect for my views and how I come about them. You made a lot of assumptions about me and my thinking.
(for the record, I respect the support of her as a candidate, just not the support of her negative campaigning.)
March 13, 2008 at 8:09 pm #617122
JoBParticipantKayleigh..
i tried giving you respect… i respected your views enough to take them seriously and challenge them…
you definately didn’t reciprocate…
so.. i gave you sympathy.. which you think is patronizing.
you tell me that you respect the support of her as a candidate..
but i would be hard pressed to find one positive thing you have said about her or about me supporting her.
I don’t agree with you.
I lived in 1972 and i can testify that Hillary’s campaign has nothing to do with 1972… nor has Geraldine Ferraro been stagnant since 1972.
or any other outdated era you can come up with.
And those two women are going to be women you are going to want to count on if Obama wins the nomination.. becasue they can pull in the big favors and bucks we will need for a democratic win in the fall.
The problems we face are uniquely 2008… created by the greatest misuse of power we have been privileged to see…. believe me.. i though nothing would every surpass tricky dick and i was very wrong.
If you can’t see that as important enough to support any democratic candidate… then you and i disagree far more basically than any conversation could ever remedy. Because this is really the bottom line.
Any democrat in the white house will have a better outcome for the american people than John McCain.. or any of the other possible republican candidates.
If you can’t see that.. then you can’t see much of anything.
and please.. don’t reply with the old hack line about Hillary supporting McCain… taken completely out of context and blown way out of proportion… or Hillary’s early years as a young idealistic republican…
we’ve been there and done that.. it’s irrelevant and it bores me.
and when the convention is over if you are stuck between that rock and hard place you are creating for yourself… and you have to choose between Hillary and McCain.. you may regret your lack of willigness to state that allegiance to the party really is more important in this election than allegiance to any candidate.
March 13, 2008 at 8:15 pm #617123
AnonymousInactiveThis is a GREAT article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120536677319031.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
March 13, 2008 at 8:28 pm #617124
KayleighMemberJo, I do believe you’d argue over the time of day and convince yourself you’d won.
I’m done, though I’m sure you’ll even argue with this.
March 13, 2008 at 8:36 pm #617125
beachdrivegirlParticipantNR-the link said the page had expired. Can you try posting again or putting the title of the article so i can try to find it myself.
March 13, 2008 at 8:36 pm #617126
villagegreenMemberIt goes without saying that some people will vote for Obama because he is black, Clinton because she is a woman, Obama because his opponent is a woman, or Clinton because her opponent is black.
It’s pointless to fight over whether sexism or racism is a more influential factor.
Ferraro probably isn’t a racist, but her comments are remarkedly stupid for such an accomplished woman. She said the exact same thing about Jesse Jackson’s campaign, so she definitely had an agenda when saying it. To think she didn’t is very naive.
It seems clear to me that she’s trying to imply that Obama is benefiting from some sort of electoral affirmative action. She’s attempting to make voters think of Barack Obama as a “quota” rather than a serious candidate who has earned his way, while simultaneously claiming that Hillary is not winning because of sexism. Not very smart.
And if you think Clinton hasn’t benefited from sexism you’re delusional as well. Ask yourselfs this, if Hillary was a man would she still be in the race after her crying episodes?
March 13, 2008 at 8:44 pm #617127
villagegreenMemberSorry. I meant ‘remarkably stupid’, not ‘remarkedly stupid’. Look who’s stupid now.:)
March 13, 2008 at 9:01 pm #617128
AnonymousInactiveSorry. For some reason none of my links are working lately.
It’s in the Wall Street Journal (www.wsj.com) under “opinions”. The article title is “Obama and the Race Card”.
March 13, 2008 at 9:08 pm #617129
AnonymousInactiveYou should also check out, in the same section, “Obama on Offense”.
March 13, 2008 at 9:25 pm #617130
andreaParticipantall…just say this. it was posted from foxnews.com…in the case of race, sex, and religion and whether it is playing a part in this election, looks like a big Obama advisor thinks they do…have a listen to the reverand…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
I couldn’t listen to it without turing the volume down…he’s a bit of a screamer…it is what it is…no matter what each side says publicly or privately, this is what much of the public thinks. no side is immune.
March 13, 2008 at 10:11 pm #617131
JoBParticipantandrea..
i knew about the pastor.. just had chosen not to bring it up. Regardless of what Kayleigh thinks.. i would simply never go there… but i knew sooner or later it would come out…
It’s why i say you can’t be black on one day and refuse to let anyone else acknowledge it on another…
It’s why Obama has been getting pressed about Farrakon lately.. it isn’t just the endorsement from Farrakon, but the endorsement from his church for Farrakon that is a problem.
Hillary won’t mention it because she doesn’t want to alienate the black vote but it is going to come out sooner or later.
However.. that video is more insidious in it’s links.
i just followed it from there to a fox commentary on just how his connections to that particular pastor might be viewed if he were white… to some far more disturbing.
Are the more disturbing ones true? i certainly hope not.
But this is just an opening salvo.
And this salvo has nothing to do with the democratic party or hillary.
there is no teflon…
those who think they have seen dirty tricks had better get ready for a real mudslide.
March 13, 2008 at 10:23 pm #617132
JoBParticipantvillagegreen..
if hillary was a man there would have been no need for the crying episodes to prove to america that she was a caring woman.
were they contrived?.. i don’t know. but once she found out that they worked.. i am sure she made less effort to completely contain her emotions.
If hillary was a man.. she wouldn’t have had the complications of Bill.
If Hillary was a man she would have either succeeded or failed on her own political merits decades ago.
She isn’t a man. It’s one of the things i like about her.. i have never hidden that.
I don’t think the competitive style of men is viable in today’s political and economic climate. i am hoping her more collaborative style would actually create some real change.
Just as i am sure one of the things a lot of people like about Barak is that he isn’t a woman. i think that is one of the major reasons he is doing so well with white men.. of all ages…
And a lot of them probably like that he is black. Don’t dismiss all of those middle aged people who actually fought for civil rights.. even if it wasn’t their color.
Do i think he gets a kick from all of that. Yup…
I don’t mind that he does.
what i mind is his campaign and supporters acting like they aren’t manipulating that like crazy to their own benefit. That’s hypocrisy.
March 13, 2008 at 10:48 pm #617133
JanSParticipantwell, hypocrisy is hypocrisy…I like both candidates…am still a “mugwump” (ask me)….andI’m sure in the end Hillary isn’t afraid to play the “woman” card and enjoy it, just as you say Barack does with being a “black” man.
In politics, you do what works, and if that works, neither is above it.
Going for the “black” vote isn’t a new thing, nor is going for the “female” vote. This year it’s just a bit different because the candidates are black and female…those white guys in the past had no problem pandering, that’s for sure…
March 13, 2008 at 11:03 pm #617134
villagegreenMemberOf course the Obama campaign is pouncing on Ferraro’s comments and bringing them to the attention of the media. They tried taking the high road in Texas by ignoring the significance of the 3AM ad and that strategy failed. One thing modern day politics has proven is that once things go negative and you start getting attacked, the only viable option is to fight back.
Hillary chose to go negative. Her campaign was on the verge of dissintegrating and instead of staying positive – which would have guaranteed herself a smooth exit, dignity intact (as it did Edwards) – she chose the attack your opponent with everything but the kitchen sink approach. And it worked. So she’s definitely not gonna stop now. Ferraro resigning so she can save her dignity by fighting back is laughable. She’s resigned so she can continue making divisive statements that will no doubt work to Clinton’s advatage by appealing to a certain pathetic portion of the electorate.
Obama supporters aren’t claiming that his campaign isn’t above a little manipulation of events to his advantage. What we’re upset about is that Hillary has brought things to that level. You gotta play your opponents game or you’ll be left playing by yourself. Look what happended to John Kerry.
March 14, 2008 at 12:22 am #617135
JoBParticipantvillagegreen.
that’s a nice story… and you stick with it. It’s all that mean old Hillary who just won’t find herself a nice exit strategy…
LOL.. why should she exit until she’s beaten?
his saying it’s so.. doesn’t make it so…
on his high road clean campaign which hasn’t been so high or so clean… starting with his mail attacks on hillary…
or his supposed victory.. which isn’t yet…
or his ignoring the 3 AM add when they definately put out one themselves in response…
or…
mean old Hillary isn’t stealing anything.
it’s a campaign gang..
i feel like a broken record… but the guy is a politician.. and if he isn’t… you shouldn’t be supporting him…
best look at the real enemy because FOX news just lobbed a real stink bomb out today… and if you think people aren’t going to be following the links to the filth.. you’re mistaken.
Here is the link that someone else posted earlier and i actually followed.. you should too so you have some idea what you are up against.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
I think it is pretty appalling… since following FOX links takes you right to some links they can disavow…
and i imagine someone is going to “break” that nasty story because they will be afraid of being scooped…
I don’t know how to explain to you that we aren’t the real enemy.. and maybe you should focus your attention on what your candidate does right instead of what you think mine does wrong. You are going to need all the help you can get once the real campaigning starts.
March 14, 2008 at 12:30 am #617136
AnonymousInactiveWith all of this going on between Obama and Clinton, there won’t be much left for the Republican party to do. By the time ONE of the two Dems gets the nomination, we are going to already know all the dirt. Has anyone stopped to think that this is really bad for the Democratic party as a whole?
March 14, 2008 at 12:35 am #617137
JoBParticipanti just followed that link back and i thought that something good had happened.. that they had pulled their links.. but they didn’t.. they just buried it further.. if you get to the “shocking video Obama doesn’t want you to see” you will find them in the links…
in between there are now just a whole lot more videos about his church.. and they didn’t have to invent a lot… his pastor gives them plenty of soundbites…
having grown up in a pentacostal church.. and having participated in some of the civil rights movement myself… and ending up in the middle of it’s ugly aftermath… i am not so shocked by what is said by him.. but i think there are a lot of people who will be unsettled by his words…
this isn’t even round one.. it’s just prefight advertising… setting the stage for what they want America to think… just in case Obama is our candidate…
if you are an obama supporter.. you really should go take a look. and not because the hillary hag is setting you up but because you need a clear picture of what is yet to come… whether he ends up with the nomination or not.
March 14, 2008 at 12:42 am #617138
JoBParticipantNew resident..
don’t let our infighting fool you.
there are some of us who haven’t lost sight of the long term goal and who will still be pursuing it…
one thing you can say about democrats in this election.. they are passionate!
republicans might be willing to defend McCain.. but passion is clearly missing on his side…
of course, i am certain they will find some way to manufacture some… but i am not sure they haven’t gone too far over the top in their advertising for even republicans to believe it…
And if you think republicans will defend their own… you haven’t seen anything yet.. i don’t support Obama.. but you can be sure i will defend him against the current smear campaign….
don’t read this one wrong… I lobbed a friendly warning to the other camp.. not an insult.
March 14, 2008 at 12:47 am #617139
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I hear you and no insult taken. It will definitely get interesting in the months to come, especially when you have a candidate and the attention turns to the Republicans.
Not sure I’m looking forward to it.
March 14, 2008 at 3:01 am #617140
charlabobParticipantNR — I told you we would self-destruct. A couple weeks ago you gave me hope — now, if I see these forums as a microcosm of the world, all I can say is argggghhhh! If I see the world as a microcosm it’s even worse.
(I think we may owe each other many drinks before this is over–when can we start??)
cb
March 14, 2008 at 3:08 am #617141
charlabobParticipantNR — I told you we would self-destruct. A couple weeks ago you gave me hope — now, if I see these forums as a microcosm of the world, all I can say is argggghhhh! If I see the world as a microcosm it’s even worse.
(I think we may owe each other many drinks before this is over–when can we start??)
c/b
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