- This topic has 120 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by redblack.
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September 26, 2016 at 2:39 pm #859005
JKBParticipantGive it up, Jan. Heckling a public figure is fair play. See also Randy Johnson’s mullet, or Donald Trump.
Reason for what’s happening? All I said was that he’s not playing.
And ‘ignorant’. What knowledge did I lack? I’d guess you meant something else.
Really, he was suited up to play a sport requiring a helmet, with hair visibly huger than the outside dimensions of the helmet. A spiky Mohawk would have been equally silly.
September 26, 2016 at 2:44 pm #859007
shaze25ParticipantThis whole thing breaks down pretty easy to me. I am a white male in my 30s.
Do you believe there is racial injustice in this country? I think this is pretty obvious but I know many disagree. If you don’t I would think you should vary your news sources and broaden your spectrum.
If you do acknowledge that there is racial injustice, then who am I as a white person to judge how others choose to protest this? What would you have them do? They block traffic, you complain, they write articles, you complain, they protest peacefully, you complain. The problem is those who are angry over this want the issue confined to people complaining in their own living rooms, and away from inconveniencing you. Social progress cannot be made that way.
I have never been a Kaepernick fan as a football player, but his protest has started a conversation in all aspects of media, sports, and society. Progress.
September 26, 2016 at 7:41 pm #859045
JoBParticipantSeptember 26, 2016 at 10:20 pm #859061
JKBParticipantOne pattern I’ve observed is where people with a social-progress cause advocate for that cause without regard for the methods. “Ends justify the means” is loaded language, but that’s what it amounts to.
Perhaps one source of disagreement lies with attitudes toward a Cause. I absolutely do not agree that the (any) cause has that sort of primacy. To those starting with different beliefs, it’s no wonder we disagree.
September 27, 2016 at 2:20 am #859067
JanSParticipantjkb….I will posit that any football helmet will fit on his head.They are fitted with them. Hair moves, you know…and pointing that out was , sorry if I offend, but stupid, IMHO.How do you feel about dreds, as in Richard Sherman’s hair. No different., Or, sorry I don’t know the players name…but we have a Seahawk (a white man) who has the most beautiful , incredibly full head of hair, down below his shoulders, that’s every bit as big as Mr. Kaepernicks. Got a comment about that, too? Your comment was offensive, in my book…and petty, too. Mr. Kaepernick is within his rights to protest as he sees fit, taking a knee. To me, it is not disrespectful.
we all have opinions on this…that and a few bucks gets you coffee…but PLEASE try to stick to the topic instead of making snide remarks about him, and fellow commenters here.
you still don’t get it….or you simply disagree with why he’s doing this, gotta be one or the other.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by JanS.
September 27, 2016 at 2:29 am #859069
JanSParticipantoh, and, JKB…if you want to “heckle a celebrity” , maybe you should go to a game, where they are…and heckle them. I doubt Mr. Kaepernick reads this forum.
September 27, 2016 at 5:03 am #859070
JKBParticipantWhat’s the correct term for the “you don’t get it” rhetorical device? It frames a point so neatly by just assuming it.
JanS, you have often asserted that I am condescending. “You don’t get it” is the very definition of condescending.
September 27, 2016 at 5:48 am #859071
redblackParticipantjan: you forgot “arrogant.”
when the “leave it to beaver” crowd controls the rhetoric, it’s difficult to understand what it must be like to grow up dirt poor; to have minimal parental guidance; to have to resort to petty crime to make ends meet; and to have cops, judges, and the rest of the country telling you, “just get a job and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.”
OP is right. this conversation is dysfunctional.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by redblack.
September 27, 2016 at 9:28 am #859084
JanSParticipanthahahaha….JKB…no, not condescending…just truth…you DON’T get it…
September 27, 2016 at 12:24 pm #859095
JKBParticipantAnother pattern I’ve observed is demonization of anyone who disagrees. Sometimes even of those who basically agree but are using different words to say it.
September 27, 2016 at 1:23 pm #859101
JKBParticipantJust so we’re clear, my ‘pattern’ comments are motivated by this very exchange. The two I mentioned are broad points, in that I’ve seen the same thing elsewhere. The hostility and name-calling not so much – the WSB crowd descends into that a lot faster than others.
September 27, 2016 at 2:44 pm #859113
JoBParticipant“Another pattern I’ve observed is demonization of anyone who disagrees”
said the man who accused me of insulting him when i restated his opinion and countered with mine
and used the word priority… really?September 27, 2016 at 2:45 pm #859115
JoBParticipantif only those uppity _____________ would choose a better way of making their point :( :( :(
September 27, 2016 at 2:53 pm #859123
JKBParticipantThought we’d covered that pretty well, JoB. And you lose the high ground with an “uppity ____” remark.
September 27, 2016 at 8:08 pm #859172
JoBParticipantJKB.. not directed at you.. at least. not the way you took it.
September 27, 2016 at 8:29 pm #859180
JKBParticipantHow did I take it? They’re fairly nasty words regardless. JanS used a similar phrase too.
Just imagine the ruckus you’d all raise if I’d said that.
September 28, 2016 at 5:33 am #859190
redblackParticipantthe OP thinks the WSB crowd goes nasty quickly? that’s pretty funny. this place is like a church compared to the comment sections on other sites. just read crosscut, FFS. then we get people like betty and captain dave dangling meat in the water.
situational awareness, as 935 said elsewhere: this is a neighborhood blog in a predominantly liberal neighborhood in an overwhelmingly liberal city. what do you expect?
oh, and what’s the rhetorical device where you only paint in broad strokes, never clearly define your opinion, then act like a forum moderator when conversation gets heated or when people commit passionately to a position that differs from yours?
this ain’t college debate club. it’s politics on the internet. wear a helmet, or sit down.
September 28, 2016 at 11:58 am #859225
JanSParticipantand learn to “get” sarcasm in the forum..it really does elude some people…it’s no fun when you have to start out first by saying it’s sarcasm ;-)
Thank you, redblack..
September 28, 2016 at 2:31 pm #859245
JKBParticipantWhy redblack, that’s possibly the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me.
September 28, 2016 at 5:43 pm #859268
redblackParticipantthis is a dual answer for jan and the OP (since i’m not allowed to address him/her directly):
no worries. i might look like a softie on the surface, but i’m a strong advocate for tough love.
cheers.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by redblack.
September 28, 2016 at 7:02 pm #859273
JTBParticipantany possibility of setting aside the wrangling over slights and indignation and get back to discussing the actual issue? There are very important developments taking place throughout the country in regard to the national anthem protests which I think are worth discussing more than determining who’s naughty and who’s nice. I’ve tried to post variations on this theme three times today without success, so perhaps I’m just not getting it and the cyber gods are letting me know. So I guess this serves as a test.
September 28, 2016 at 7:35 pm #859278
dobroParticipantcool. let’s go back to the original post on the issue…
“The Star-Spangled Banner is one of a few symbols of the country. The bald eagle and the flag itself are others. They do not represent a specific administration or policy, but rather the country as a whole.”
Purely the opinion of the poster. There are no laws, decrees, or passages in the Constitution (or anywhere else) dictating how Americans must respond to a national anthem or that we even need one. We never voted on the song. It was made the national anthem by a congressional resolution on March 3, 1931. The resolution followed the presentation of a petition for, and a presentation of testimony against by musicians and singers who held that the song was too difficult to sing.
“So when a protest strikes against the anthem, it is against the country.”
This is nonsense.
“It’s the same as burning a flag, except there won’t be charges of arson. I doubt Kaepernick and others meant that, but it’s what they’re saying.”
More nonsense. Plus, the poster doesn’t seem to understand the protest has nothing to do with the anthem other than using its playing as an opportunity to focus attention on the issues that the protest IS actually about. It has no relationship to flag burning (which is also legal, BTW), and it’s not what Kaepernick and others are saying. Misrepresentation and misunderstanding on the part of the OP.
“Kaepernick’s decided he’s sufficiently upset about an issue to pitch a public fit about it. Fine, he should find himself a venue and say his piece.”
He did. He’s a highly paid entertainer that has a huge audience and if you want to make a statement and have an impact, a smart person will take that opportunity.
“But the anthem isn’t a venue available for the taking, and those who stand on a public stage and disregard it send a message quite different from the one they probably intended.”
More opinion with no basis in fact. The fact that this protest has inspired much discussion, pro and con, on the issues it is actually addressing means the message is getting thru. Not to people who think the protest is about the anthem, though.
September 28, 2016 at 7:41 pm #859283
JKBParticipantdobro, that piece of cheese isn’t even worth responding to.
I’m a little disappointed. Even though we rarely agree (i.e. I think you’re wrong) you normally present a cogent argument. This one is just you saying ‘nonsense’ over and over.
(And JTB – your test got through)
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by JKB.
September 28, 2016 at 9:32 pm #859290
HappyOnAlkiParticipantdobro, thanks for calling out the nonsense. There was definitely a lot of it —
September 28, 2016 at 10:28 pm #859296
JKBParticipantYeah…redblack was right about the effect of a very liberal neighborhood.
Still – Happy, do you care to call out even a single instance of ‘nonsense’? Or are you just a ‘me too’ echo?
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