Property Taxes

[jonfsutter]

Taxation without Representation. That is what started the American Revolution.

Now we have enabled homelessness, a war on cars, over protection of renters, an exaggeration of the plight of the GLBT community, “safe” shoot up zones, a war on cops, a war on employers, traffic and speed laws designed for the dimmest wit of society and destroying the fuel efficiency of the automobile.

All of this moronic waste is financed by taxation on property by voters who do not own property. The property owners no longer have a voice. The entitlement community is out voting the working community. All this in the name of equity. Equity shall not mean give away.

Our Mayor says he wants an “Affordable Seattle”. Unfortunately “Freeattle” is the result with massive funds being thrown at society conditions which are not solvable. The homeless situation in Freeattle is disgusting and out of control as it is attracting homeless from all over the USA. These people do not want to improve their situation through contribution to society. They are smarter than our mayor and city council. Now they are in our neighborhoods and our parks and the cops are told to not enforce our laws. This will not end without disgracing Seattle. New visitors are already horrified by the drive from SEATAC to Downtown.

We personally cannot afford the property tax increase rate to finance the stupid experiments. We are going to sell our property and move far away from Seattle where we have worked and contributed our whole lives.

Are we alone in our plight and disgust?

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[mark47n]

See ya.

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[JTB]

Can we presume you have voted in favor of a state income tax which would enable funds to flow to municipal and regional projects rather than have to rely on sales tax and property taxes for revenue?
You’ll have to decide which approach you favor in deciding where to move—-income taxes, property taxes, or Kansas.

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[Fancy Nan]

I suspect jon is stating what a lot of people are feeling, but most will not make such a statement because it is not popular or it is perceived as politically incorrect. Our taxes just went up 20% in only one year. I feel your pain and agree with much of what you are saying.

Something does need to change or Seattle will become a city comprised of just the ultra wealthy who can afford to live here, and the homeless….a dangerous mix. I was strongly against the increase in the minimum wage to $15 for a long time. After much thought, I am warming up to the idea, as housing is becoming more and more unaffordable for the average or below-average income earner. Where would someone making $10/hour actually live in this city? Something does need to change.

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[JKB]

JTB – is there something structural about an income tax so the money flows better, or would it just be about more total revenue.

I like the income tax because it spreads the load among all the available revenue sources, making it less likely someone gets slammed or totally evades taxation.

I hate the income tax because it’ll dramatically increase taxes. They’ll promise otherwise, then ratchet up until property and sales taxes are at current levels plus the new income tax.

So it partly comes down to trust. If I pay a tax, can I be confident the money will be spent well?

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[newnative]

The OP didn’t post to have a discussion or else he would be replying or offering solutions, suggestions. The whole supposition that property owners are being taxed without representation is completely ludicrous. Good luck with wherever it is you think you’re going without taxes.

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[KBear]

Please tell me more about the “exaggerated plight of the LGBT community”! No wonder taxes are so high!

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[melissa]

Kbear, it’s those pesky queer folk who are causing the increases in property taxes, silly!

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[JTB]

JKB,
it’s more about everyone having some skin in the game. While I appreciate rent probably incorporates some measure for property taxes, I still think it would be good for everyone to have a clear sense of participating in state government revenue generation other than through sales tax. To the degree property taxes and sales tax might be lowered to account for income tax revenue, that would be good, particularly for those at the low income level.

I would favor a progressive income tax beginning at 1% for anyone whose income is above whatever the poverty level is at the time.

Trust. I believe you can trust government in direct proportion to how engaged the electorate is.

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[jonfsutter]

Well it has been 5 days since I posted my blog. I use my real name for these kind of things as it is proper. If you are afraid to use your real name you should not be commenting as you are hiding behind anonymity and can say any wreak less thing you want.
Do you think for a moment that property taxes will be reduced equal to the result of an income tax?
How do people on fixed incomes afford 15% increases in 2016 property taxes and expected 20% increase in 2017?
Pier 1 imports left West Seattle due to the $15.00 per hour wage. Does that increase employment?
Does the $15.00 increase mean more funds per individual? Or more individuals who have had their hours cut back and are now on assistance?
Does painting rainbow crosswalks in downtown Seattle cost nothing? Do gay parades cost the city nothing? Does re identifying toilets or providing additional special toilets cost nothing?
What do I suggest. Fiscal responsibility. The City of Seattle is way out of control with the social programs. The State is fined daily for not properly funding schools. Our National debt will crush us eventually. We need to concentrate on good roads to aid commerce, good schools to educate our children, and good health care for all of us from a competitive service delivery. We need to enforce the laws and support our police.
The rest of it is nonsense.
Yes, we are continuing our search for a new residence outside of Seattle.
See Ya

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[dhg]

Gay people, just like all people, have the right to assemble, to march, to create a parade and much of the cost is paid for in fees. You complain about the gay pride march but not the Seafair parade. That speaks volumes.

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[skeeter]

The O.P. is making a valid point though. In just the past couple years we have had ballot measures with increased property taxes for (1) parks district (2) schools/education levy (3) transportation “move seattle” (4) libraries and (5) affordable housing. I suspect I’m forgetting one or two. Each of these measures passed with a healthy margin. Folks this is a lot of new taxes. Each time we vote for another tax increase we are pricing some people out of the city. Am I saying roads aren’t important? Schools aren’t important? Affordable housing isn’t important? No. All those things are important. But we have to collectively acknowledge that we are willing to price people out of Seattle because we think the benefits of these additional tax revenues are worthwhile. All these taxes are great if you can afford to live here. But if the taxes price you out it’s pretty lousy.

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[Betty453]

Dear Jon,
Please refrain from using Facts and Logic in your arguments. It is offensive to Liberals and leaves them no other option than to attack you personally.
You are obviously not enlightened enough to understand that it takes money… Lot’s of YOUR money to construct this Utopian Liberal Wonderland and the fact that you say you can’t afford it is not a consideration that can be allowed to enter the argument.
Before you can enter into a discussion with Liberals you must first attempt to understand how ( L.M.D. ) The ” Liberal Mental DisOrder ” infection affects the brain or you will just run into a rainbow colored brick wall ( That cost $4.2 Trillion and 14 yrs. to build…btw ).
The only thing that really matters to a Liberal is that they feel good about themselves that they are doing ” Good ” and destroying the forces of evil that may question there ” Good ” Intentions/Ideology.
Facts and Logic are like ” Kryptonite ” to a Liberal because anytime an opposing opinion resorts to the tactic of using ” Facts and Logic ” the Liberal is then cornered and has no response and then must resort to there Hate filled playbook of ” Your a Racist, Sexist, Islama-phobic , Science denying Homo-phob. etc) therefore you cannot be taken seriously.
So when it comes to Seattle you have to understand that the Liberals honestly have convinced themselves that opening a ” Heroin Adventure Park ” Downtown will do nothing but have a positive affects. The facts that Heroin users need the 2 things that the city cannot provide which is Heroin Dealers and the money for more Heroin will not create a problem. Lunacy !
Just be thankful that you are not infected with ( L.M.D. ). The medication is eye opening and VERY expensive.

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[dhg]

Yes, good idea, open your eyes. Vancouver BC was brave enough to run a supervised drug injection site and has found multiple benefits from it: Reduced drug overdoses, reduced emergency calls, all leading to reduced health care costs because cross infections are down and people have a chance to clean up and move on with their lives. https://theawl.com/vancouvers-supervised-drug-injection-center-how-does-it-work-c483cdd18b66#.e3mr0ynhw

If you don’t like all the money the City spends on gay people you can take comfort in the knowledge that the City is not actually able to stop organized marches but they do assess fees. If that is not sufficient for you, there is always Idaho…

And Betty: check out the facts surrounding BC’s safe injection space. It’s quite exciting and has become a model for other major North American cities. The story allows the facts to speak for themselves. http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-scientists-are-in-insite-works/

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[williamf64]

Yes, For Sure..
Only in the Liberal Wonderland can you advertise, Promote and provide a ” Safe Space ” for Heroin addicts to shoot up and not get more heroin addicts coming to the city to take advantage of this ” Safe Space “.

Oh…and again Only in The Liberal Wonderland can a 24hr. ” Heroin Adventurland Park ” be promoted and available and NOT attract the ( 2 ) Things that are crucial to the Continued Operation or ” Sustainability ” of such a Park and that is :
1) Heroin Dealers :
Because after all we are Providing that ” safe” and wonderful place to Shoot up so where there is a ” Safe ” space to shoot up you will get Extremely UNSAFE Drug Dealers
2) $ MONEY for More and more and more Heroin :
Because again… Where there are Heroin Addicts you get Heroin Dealers and what is needed to keep the ” Heroin Wonderland ” Moving is MORE MONEY FOR HEROIN !

So, What happens when you combine Heroin Addicts that don’t have job’s and Heroin Dealers that need money to provide admission to the heroin Adventurland park ?
How about RAMPANT Crime ?
Or is your Liberal Denial Syndrome going to prevent the acceptance of these Facts ?

It is amazing how the Liberal mind works. How you can offer a ” Safe Space ” for such a Devastating Physically addicting Drug as heroin and enable the ” Safe ” use of it and somehow addicts will come to there senses spontaneously and want to quit ? On what Planet has that ever happened ?

That is INSANE !

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[dhg]

Gee, if only it were tried somewhere so we could see what happens…… oh wait, we did. Vancouver, BC. Crime went down. Number of deaths by overdose, number of infections, emergency visits due to these injectable drugs ALL went down. What is the alternative here anyway, same-o same-o? How’s that working?

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[JoB]

jonfsutter..
hello. my name is Joanne Brayden. I don’t use it as my sign on because i don’t think that was an option when i first started posting here 8+ years ago.. but i have been identified often enough that i am pretty sure that i am hiding in plain sight.

i resent your implication that renters don’t pay property taxes.. therefore they should have no say in what those taxes are spent on. we all vote.. and we all pay property taxes.. whether directly or indirectly.

Rising property taxes were given as the rationalization for the rent increase less than 6 months ago.. the tax portion rose more than 20%… and my rent just went up again… because market rates justify profit.

My rent not only pays the property owner’s mortgage, insurance and maintenance costs.. it pays the taxes too.

so don’t be telling me i shouldn’t have a say in what kinds of services are paid for with those taxes.

It was a fair vote.
If you didn’t vote. that was your problem.
I always do.

it turns out that those of us who show up to the polls determine the outcome…
that’s how voting works.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by JoB.

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[Talaki34]

Why are you wasting an opportunity to really listen to each other and discuss the problems facing Seattle?

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[ernieusafret]

JoB
I realize that you know that you pay taxes in your rent, but how many other voters know this.
Before long West Seattle is going to be like Bellevue, with higher housing costs.
Every time people vote for higher taxes, wages don’t go up to compensate.
I am retired, and when taxes go up my retirement does not.
Before long I will not be able to afford to live here.
I was born and raised here and would like to stay, But….?
BTW, I do vote in every election.

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[JKB]

The conversation about housing cost will take a turn if/when interest rates ever start rising.

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[redblack]

property taxes are collected (and apportioned) by king county, even when cities (like the people’s republic of bellevue) vote to tax themselves a little more in order to finance levies, bonds, etc.

and, by “a little more,” i mean on the order of .0975% increases over a 10-year period. far, far less than 1%, for the mathematically challenged among us.

now, having paid property taxes faithfully in king county for 12 years, i can attest (under oath, if necessary) that property taxes in king county are less than 2% of assessed property value.

do you get where i’m going here?

the only way that anyone’s property taxes have increased by any appreciable notice (like 20%, for example) is through increased valuation by king county.

so you don’t like the commensurate taxation in seattle that results from seattle’s booming economy and increasing property values? or maybe you can’t afford the mortgage you agreed to pay?

there’s great news! you can easily sell your house in pinko and diverse seattle’s white-hot sellers’ market and move someplace that’s friendlier to your hostile, selfish needs… like buckley. or spanaway. or carnation.

then you can bitch about seattle traffic and road maintenance with real, informed gusto.

got any other “facts” or “logic” you want to dazzle me with?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by redblack.

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[redblack]

oh, and by the way…

so your property taxes might approach 2% of assessed value.

what’s the interest rate on your home loan? and what value do you get for that 4% interest rate that you pay to some zaibatsu bank?

does BofA give you free foot rubs? remodeled fire stations? better school facilities? improved electric service?

or just a bunch of corporate customer service grief, while they dodge federal taxes with your money?

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[JoB]

ernieusafret
yes, taxes are a burden on retirement incomes..
but they are also a relatively good return for your dollar
unlike many of the other costs that are escalating

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[JanS]

you didn’t post a blog…you posted a rant. This is a forum…not a personal blog page…just thought I’d throw that in here…

have a good one :)

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[skeeter]

Redblack I don’t disagree with most of your post. In 2016 the property tax rate in Seattle was only .87%. That’s less than 1%. Really low! The reason it is so low is because assessed values have increased a lot but there is a legislative cap on property tax increase. So the rate is actually *falling* because the base is capped and assessed values are rising.
Voter approved levies are not part of the cap, though. So the portion of tax from levies has increased substantially.
For 2016, the owner of a home in Seattle pays a property tax rate of .87% So a $670,000 house will have property taxes of $5,826.44 for the year. Of that amount $3,338.55 is from the standard state/local/city factor and the remaining $2,487.89 is from voter approved levies.
The OP is concerned with the voter approved levies. For a guy or gal making big bucks, $2,487.89 is chump change. For a person just barely squeaking by in a house they bought some time ago for WAY less than $670,000 that $2,487.89 might be more meaningful. In my opinion it is not an inconsequential number.
As my post earlier explained, we are a just and generous city. We are willing to pay more to support the things important to us – parks, libraries, schools, affordable housing, etc. But some cannot afford it. So they will have to live elsewhere or cut back in other areas of their spending.

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