- This topic has 77 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by JTB.
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February 1, 2016 at 5:23 am #832167
JoBParticipantFebruary 22, 2016 at 8:42 pm #834816
captainDaveParticipantA friend of mine does the billing for a large medical organization here in Seattle. She bills the state for pharmaceutical meth given free to addicts every day. A metro bus driver says Seattle is known as “Sucker City” to drug addicts all over the country because it is one of the best places to get free drugs, free food and free places to crash.
Homelessness seems to be a self-perpetuationg problem. The more money democrats take from taxpayers to feed the visiting heroin and meth addicts, the bigger the problem gets. We need some way to help the people who really need it but deny those who travel here for the famed freebies.
February 23, 2016 at 12:16 am #834834
JanSParticipantso, Captain Dave…what are your ideas about what to do with our homeless population? And…have you ever been close to homelessness, or have you a friend or family member that was close to homelessness, or was actually homeless? Our homeless population is growing…what do you think should be the reaction/solution from our city leaders? And, finally, do you believe that all homeless persons are addicts, to either alcohol or drugs, or ne’er-do-wells, simply lazy, looking for handouts? Also…do you have any idea where this Metro bus driver gets his information? Or is he just passing on something he’s heard, and then you’re passing it on? Serious questions…I’m curious.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by JanS.
February 23, 2016 at 6:51 am #834847
JoBParticipantthe latest stats show that at least 80% of our city’s homeless come from… here. yup.. that sucker city thing? it’s another myth.
February 23, 2016 at 1:03 pm #834880
JanSParticipant1. A Metro driver told me
2. I heard/read it on a respected news station (take your pick)
3. I saw it on the internet (always a worthy source) …specifically Facebook …
4. I overheard someone talking about it in a conversation
5. Donald Trump/Ted Cruz/Marco Rubio, etc. said it…it’s got to be true
6. Bernie Sanders/Hillary Clinton supporters said so
7. My dad/mom/brother/sister/uncle/aunt told megot anymore?
February 23, 2016 at 3:43 pm #834893
JTBParticipantPossibly related— Frontline on PBS (local KCTS) has a two hour program tonight a 9 PM addressing the rise in heroin addiction and approaches to dealing with it in Seattle. The blurb says it profiles four people so I anticipate at least one of them will be from the local homeless population .
February 23, 2016 at 4:47 pm #834903
Talaki34ParticipantBig Sigh…
February 24, 2016 at 1:30 am #834941
JanSParticipantFebruary 24, 2016 at 6:09 am #834944
Living.in.the.Wild.WestParticipantHow about instead of opening camp after camp, the city uses that money to teach the willing homeless a trade in the construction industry, then use the land designated for camps to have the newly trained homeless help to construct an ACTUAL, PERMANENT building for them so they can feel like real people again, with a place to go and feel safe, cook a meal, and bathe on a regular basis. Gathering them together in tent cities and/or these tiny shed camps, can’t make them feel any better about themselves. Can you imagine being a single parent and having to take your child into one of these homeless encampments? A program like this would help to separate those who want to change their situations and those who don’t. But where would the money come from? How about that $150 MILLION the city recently saved from the ahead of schedule opening of the new Capitol Hill light rail station?
March 2, 2016 at 4:24 pm #835802
captainDaveParticipantJanS: My response to your questions above:
“what are your ideas about what to do with our homeless population?”
It is not my idea to do anything with them because they are free people to do as they choose within the laws of our society. I want to see people who need help, get help through means that are perpetually available such as encouraging the work of private charities. However, the homeless situation seems to be more of an illegal drug problem than anything.
“have you ever been close to homelessness”
Yes, numerous times. Thanks to incessant bureaucratic regulation aimed at killing off small businesses. I have also helped homeless people with both temporary and permanent housing situations.
“Our homeless population is growing…what do you think should be the reaction/solution from our city leaders?”
I don’t remember a vote by the people of Washington to make Heroin use legal. Therefore, City officials should do what they are paid to do by prosecuting drug offenders and keeping the streets clean. If they can find a way to build a special incarseration center for non-violent drug offenders, then that would be great. Addicts need to be incarcerated for a long enough period to make the recovery stick. You cannot constitutionally put people into treatment programs without prosecuting them for a crime.
“And, finally, do you believe that all homeless persons are addicts, to either alcohol or drugs, or ne’er-do-wells, simply lazy, looking for handouts?”
Every situation is different. But it appears that the majority of the massive rise in homelessness is due specifically to illegal opiate use. Enforce drug crimes and you will go a long ways to solving most of the homeless problem.
I have submitted suggestions to the City to allow surplus port property along the river to be used for low cost housing made from repurposed shipping containers. Google it. Tiny container homes can be quite nice. This can also be done without taxpayer money as small investors can build these and rent them for very little and still make a good return.
” Also…do you have any idea where this Metro bus driver gets his information?”
Direct from the homeless passengers who ride his bus for free everyday (sometimes all day long). It is no secret that Seattle is the place to be for free methadone and lax drug enforcement.
You did not ask why I am so opposed to Seattle’s :
1.) Crime and damage to our boats that are near Ballard encampments. I have even caught people sleeping on the boats at night.
2.) Increased waterway pollution from disagreed plastic tarps, tents and drug paraphernalia–Aside from the unsightly third-world garbage, these things can cause costly damage to our vessels when taken up by the engine cooling systems or caught by a propeller. I certainly don’t recommend people going barefoot on Puget Sound beaches anymore due to all the used heroin needles.
3.) I am also very concerned with the drastic rise of government sanctioned methadone use as it creates a carcinogenic effluent the ends up in Puget Sound fish, clams and crab.
4.) The unsightly homeless encampments along the ship canal and Ballard are a disgusting eyesore for our tourist guests visiting Seattle–So much so that we now try to encourage people to chose other sightseeing routes to avoid the nude deficators along the shore.
5.) I end up spending too much time on the roads as it is. My frustrating cross-city commute to the boats is further encumbered by homeless drug addicts. The permanent sidewalk encampment under 99 at Western causes pedestrians to more frequently stop offramp traffic to avoid walking through the tent squaller–backing traffic up on the viaduct for many blocks. There are situations like this all over the City where sidewalks are blocked to effectively force pedestrians into traffic.
The bottom line is that City officials should enforce the laws that “we the people make”. If you want to change the laws, go see if you can get approval from the constituency first.
March 2, 2016 at 8:01 pm #835819
JoBParticipantCaptain dave..
no. the homeless problem is not predominantly a drug problem.
the fastest growing group of homeless people are families with children and the disabled elderly.
the homeless problem is a resource problem… there isn’t enough low income housing to meet the need…March 2, 2016 at 9:33 pm #835826
captainDaveParticipantJOB: Then why do shelters like the Salvation Army on 4th avenue have so many vacancies? They are reporting that many of the homeless prefer to live in tents because they don’t want to abstain from drug use. Perhaps you missed this article?:
In reality, the homeless problem is multifaceted. I don’t disagree that there are certainly increasing situations where non-drug users become homeless in our regulation-constrained economy.
Like I mentioned before, why doesn’t the Port of Seattle lease out a bit of its unused properties and let people like me build and rent low-cost homes made from shipping containers?:
http://tinyhousetalk.com/wp-content/uploads/shipping-container-tiny-home.jpg
Homes like this can be built by industrious carpenters for a few thousand dollars and rented for a few hundred dollars a month. Tons of outfitting materials are available through places like Habitat for Humanity. This would be an instant, highly-scalable and dignified fix to the family/elderly homeless problem that would not cost the City hardly anything compared to other programs. Plus, it could empower lots of independent carpenters to produce rental housing income without enriching some deep pocket crony developer.
March 2, 2016 at 11:55 pm #835832
JanSParticipantcapt.Dave…because the Salvation Army Shelter dictates what you will wear, what you will believe as far as religion, they don’t allow couples to stay together, , and many more “rules”
that have nothing to do with putting a roof over someone’s head. What if I’m Buddhist? Why should I have to go through an indoctrination like that. If you want to help homeless people, help them for fu*k’s sake. Feed them, clothe them, give them a roof over their head. And then, if they want to believe what you believe, fine. But don’t make it a prerequisite for being there.Got another question? Well, I have one. Where are these homeless persons going to get a few hundred dollars per month for rent if they’re living in a tent now.If they are drug addicted, will treatment be provided, so maybe some day they’ll be clean and be able to get a low paying job? And another question…you are aware that there is no free zone for bus riding downtown, aren’t you? Hasn’t been for quite sometime. So, no, they’re not riding his bus all day long for free.
March 3, 2016 at 10:23 am #835869
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave..
you do realize that the Salvation Army shelter with empty beds does not accept families, don’t you?
Nor does that shelter accept people who do not have a substance abuse problem.it’s clear that you are far more interested in making what you think is your point than taking any evidence that refutes it into account.
March 3, 2016 at 9:27 pm #835930
JTBParticipantcaptainDave—Good news! You can drop your concern about a methadone-derived carcinogen, Nitrosodimethylamine being released into Puget Sound from Seattle’s wastewater processing. That chemical is formed by an interaction of methadone (some of which remains in urine) with chloramine, a chemical many municipalities use as a disinfectant. Seattle, however, continues to use chlorine which does not interact in a similar way with methadone. Aren’t you relieved?
Otherwise, I would encourage you to retrieve the recent Frontline piece on opiate addiction which is based in metro King County and with a heavy emphasis on the rationale for the approach adopted by SPD to deal with chronic users and which has been an inspiration to other cities in the United States. It doesn’t really delve into the homeless problem as a problem in and of itself, but it does provide some compelling data and illustrations of how routine us of medical opiates for pain management has fostered an epidemic. FWIW, I heard Sheriff Urquhart yesterday make a case for innovative approaches to drug treatment if we expect to get anywhere in dealing with the problem.
March 3, 2016 at 10:15 pm #835937
captainDaveParticipantJOB:
While chlorine is currently the choice for treating Seattle the tape water, there is no assurance that chloramine won’t enter the sewer system via industrial and home cleaning products. So no, piping more synthetic drug chemicals into Puget Sound still does not seem like a good thing to do. Little is known about other effects from the massive increase in methadone contaminated effluent.
You stated: “no. the homeless problem is not predominantly a drug problem.” If so, then many should not have a problem getting into the Salvation Army shelter. The article link I posted for you says that the Salvation Army does accept people of any beliefs. Perhaps they are lying and violating discrimination laws?
What percentage of homeless people in Seattle right now are parents with children? Doesn’t social services take children away in situations where parents cannot care for them?
With regard to it being a drug problem or not, PBS Frontline did a nice job of showing the state of Seattle’s homeless condition. Her is the link for those who have not seen it: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/announcement/chasing-heroin-a-two-hour-special-premieres-feb-23-on-frontline/ Illegal drugs are clearly a big part of the homeless problem.
I disagree with the idea of not enforcing the laws. If the majority of people in Washington want to legalize heroin, then that’s different. Otherwise, users and dealers should be prosecuted and locked up away from drugs for as long as the law allows. The City of Seattle is doing a disservice to drug users and citizens by enabling illegal drug use.
Yes, it looks like homeless can get free bus tickets:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/News/release/2012/September/28bustickets.aspxMarch 3, 2016 at 10:39 pm #835939
JoBParticipantCaptain dave..
the homeless shelter that reported empty beds is a faith based substance rehab center.
if you don’t have a substance abuse problem they don’t care what your belief system is.. they don’t have a bed for you.
Which… wait for it.. leaves people who don’t have a substance abuse problem on the streets.
It also pretty much leaves out families with children.. though i suppose if one of the parents had a substance abuse problem they would take them and if the spouse with the substance problem was the male.. the wife and kids could go to a family shelter.. if there was room.. or they could go back to the streets.
I don’t know how much more clearly i can put that.
No alcohol and/or drug problem.. no bed.And pretty much no room in other shelters.
As for those bus tickets.. some of the shelter systems do have single ride bus tickets available.. but they are limited and won’t let the homeless ride on the bus all day.
check out the stats on homeless kids in our state’s school systems.
in 2014 they topped 30,00.. and that number has gone up.
that’s a lot of homeless kids.http://www.k12.wa.us/LegisGov/2015documents/HomelessStudentsJan2015.pdf
then there are the elderly who are being evicted from what were once low rent apartments they could afford and have no place to go. i
if they qualify for subsidized housing the waiting list is measured in years..
then there are the disabled and mentally ill who are turfed out of medical facilities and left on our streets without the physical and/or mental resources to survive.
of those with addiction problems, some became homeless due to substance abuse…
but the majority acquired their addictions as a coping mechanism to living on the streets.
If you really wanted to know.. the information is out there…
heck. you can find homeless people in the junction on any given day if you just know where and how to look.
March 4, 2016 at 9:45 am #836003
captainDaveParticipantJoB: The simple answer is for people to wake up to facts and stop voting for liberal politicians and their failed policies. Seattle has been under leftist democrat control for a couple decades now. Where has it gotten us? The prosperity gap is wider here than almost anywhere in the country because the middle class got pummeled out of existence by over regulation. That means there are fewer people creating and supporting diverse jobs, competitive housing and charitable services. So, now you want more rules, higher taxes and more government to solve the many problems that it creates. Until you can see the vicious cycle of lunacy that eventually destroyed places like Detroit and Baltimore, you won’t find a way to fix the escalating homeless problem.
March 4, 2016 at 10:25 am #836006
JTBParticipantcaptainDave, I appreciate that the experience you had with the City over your business venture was infuriating and financially ruinous. I think anyone would be challenged to go through that sort of ordeal and not wind up bitter and angry. Nevertheless, it is always preferable to do the hard personal work to approach life in a positive way rather than succumb to negativity. The rancor you exhibit around anything that involves local government policy and the people who receive its services overshadows any reasoned discussion of actual facts and details—-it becomes a tedious rant. That’s unfortunate for all concerned.
March 4, 2016 at 1:47 pm #836021
captainDaveParticipantJTB: Who is proliferating a rant here? I posted more positive suggestions than anyone else if you bother to read. Reducing regulation to spur job growth and providing methods for private sector development of affordable low-rent housing are positive solutions. Crying about not being able to steal enough money from hardworking citizens to fund ineffective programs is rather negative in my view. Show me policies that actually work without causing undue harm to others, and I will be onboard with the idea.
My ordeals with the city bureaucracy are not an anomaly. Otherwise, OED would not be spending so much money trying to retain businesses despite the despotic anti-capitalist activists in our local government.
In case you haven’t noticed lately. Most of the country is getting fed up with politics as usual. People who advocate for increasing socialist policies need to understand that they are not the only ones living in this City. All it would take, for instance, is one or two big companies to crash or leave town and you will have an enormous homeless problem that can’t possibly be solved with the current and proposed policy methods because there is not much of an economic base to fall back on anymore.
March 4, 2016 at 2:15 pm #836023
JanSParticipantso, Capt. Dave…you want the people to stop voting for “liberals”…who are you supporting for President this election year? I am extremely curious..
March 4, 2016 at 2:28 pm #836025
JTBParticipantcaptainDave, I refer to your post #836003, a rant. I have bothered to read your posts. I acknowledge that you present ideas for addressing some of the problems at issue intermixed with your diatribes against the City and hurrangs about liberals and socialists.
But mostly I’m struck with your bitter and angry tone and sense of impending doom stemming from Seattle’s “leftist democrat control.” I venture to say that in spite of your prophesying, the overall direction of Seattle’s local government isn’t likely to shift much beyond degrees of liberal any time soon, and certainly not likely before you and I are dead. That would be so even in a time of economic crisis as we’ve already seen. So it seems that absent a recalibration of your attitude or relocation to a more politically compatible locale, you are destined for continuing frustration, disappointment and annoyance. That’s sad.March 4, 2016 at 6:41 pm #836047
captainDaveParticipantJanS: Since I abstain from drinking the local cool-aid, I will probably be the only one in West Seattle who admittedly supports the evil Mr. Trump if he makes it through the primaries. I think he is the only one who can seriously beat Clinton and stop a third term of the Obama debt disaster. I previously supported Ben Carson and am hopeful he and Carly Fiorina get at least a cabinet position. Other than that, Ted Cruz would be an acceptable alternative to me because of his constitutional reverence.
JTB: You apparently believe that I am the only person who is critical of the City’s oppressive stance against small businesses. I am vocal about it because I am hopeful future changes will be made to allow more prosperity for a broader range of people instead of placating to limousine liberals. I will assure you that their are many others who feel the same in the business community.
March 5, 2016 at 12:09 am #836086
JanSParticipanteven after the dick fiasco last night? Seriously?You find nothing wrong with that? I figured you did, but I had to ask, because I really didn’t think we had many in our community that have no problem with his racism, misogyny, religious discrimination, etc. Presidential material, he isn’t, in my opinion. Last night, though, what an embarrassing disaster that was…that was no debate…that was a middle school locker room. And more people watched it than almost any other debate in the history of debates. This country…or at least the people in this country, are becoming more and more ignorant as time passes. He’s a reality show disaster…no other way to put it. But you go right ahead and support that, as it’s your right…but it also gives people more insight to the supporters, too…it has nothing to do with what’s best for this country. I can promise you, I’m no prude…but, wow…we are truly, seriously, the laughing stock of the world.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by JanS.
March 5, 2016 at 12:13 am #836088
JanSParticipantoh, and Capt. Dave? You say limousine liberals…what about where the money is…those right wing conservative bankers, corporations, Kochs, and on and on…you don’t think they’re “limousine rightwingers”?
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