Ken Griffey Jr. is retiring

[charlabob]

A screaming Lou would be good. I have to say, I gave up on Seattle sports passion in (I think) 2002 when the local “what about the children?” crew didn’t allow us to sell (or wear) “Yankees Suck” t-shirts because it would take away the family atmosphere.

Jeez, as a long-time Boston (yeah, that’s east coast” resident, I didn’t even think “Yankees Suck” was a controversial opinion — I thought it was similar to “It rains a lot in Seattle.” :-)

Of course, my first year in Seattle (and as an M’s fan) was in 2001 when we were almost contenders. So my expectations weren’t exactly realistic. I was impressed by the tossing of play money every time A-Rod appeared. But it still didn’t make up for the damned t-shirts. :-)

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[dawsonct]

Cait, you seem to have a lot of memories from the Mariners bad ol’ days. The ownership we have in place now is not the same type we had through the 80’s and early 90’s; uninterested and underfunded. We no longer develop talent and then trade them for a handful of journeyman as soon as they reach arbitration eligibility. If that were the case, Felix would have been traded by now, instead of being signed to a long-term extension. They wouldn’t have traded for Cliff Lee. Even for one year he would have been too expensive.

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Lou P. is certainly entertaining, and a very good manager, but his style is NOT the only successful managerial style in baseball. In fact, Lou has won only ONE World Series, and that was twenty years ago.

It is WAY too early to give up on Wak. Remember, he came in fourth for AL manager of the year in ’09. They had a deep hole to dig out of and Wak and Z seem to be keeping things going in the right direction. Instant gratification is difficult to achieve in baseball; everything about the sport takes a certain amount of patience.

Another example of managerial style would be Joe Torre. Of course, his calm demeanor may be tied to the fact that the last two teams he has managed don’t have any problem signing who they want, although, if the Yankmees want a player, they will outspend everyone else for them, even the Dodgers.

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AND AGAIN, COASTIE, it is YOU who completely miss the point, even while illustrating it in every one of your posts: Seattle doesn’t have a legacy of generations living and rooting for the same team, passing on the passion and traditions. It’s coming, I’m finally seeing second and third generation Mariner fans who have developed that jingoistic pride in their team. Will you ever get here the nasty jackass type of fan that populates East Coast venues? I hope not, I feel Westerners are the more evolved Americans and it would be nice if we could continue to prove it with our general civility.

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You keep using attendance as your proof, but if you checked into historic, league-wide attendance figures, they have been dropping all over baseball. The Mariners are just following a league-wide trend that has been ongoing for a few years now. If you really dig into the numbers, Seattle attendance has dropped at a lower percentage than league totals. Also, I guess you haven’t noticed, but there have been some struggles since about ’03, yet, when compared to other team’s attendance figures, the ONLY teams the Mariners are ever behind are the ones in bigger markets, or with brand-new stadiums, or with contending teams.

In other words, Seattle, the #14 media market in the U.S., has this decade supported our losing and poorly run (until recently) team BETTER than every other team in comparable circumstances.

Here are the attendance figures for the most recent decade:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2000-03attendance.htm

You will notice that only six teams had better attendance than the Mariners in the decade: The Angels and Dodgers in L.A.. the S.F. Giants, the Cubs, the Yanks and Mets. The Mets needed to draw over 4 million to Shea in it’s final year to push them ahead of the Mariners.

What teams are missing from that list? The Red Sox, for one. So much for Red Sox Nation. Of course I understand that their are fewer tickets to sell at Fenway, and that they usually sell out, but if they had averaged for the decade what they have the last two years, they would have easily outdrawn Seattle.

Another team missing from that list? A team that has a new stadium, has been to two WS and won one, is in a much larger media market, and a team that supposedly has a history of support through the generations that have grown with them since 1883.

Philadelphia.

Yep, Seattle fan’s, with no GRAND history of WS championships to look back on (I’m taking the WAY UNDER if you set the Mariners first WS championship at 97 years), and some fairly lousy baseball to watch for the majority of the decade has better fan support than the phreakin’ Philadelphia Phillies.

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Good luck spinning that one, schmuck.

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[Cait]

Oh my, dawsonct. Well, first of all, being 24 I don’t have any other memories of the Mariners than that. So my perspective is, yes, somewhat limited. I’m just callin’ them how I see them.

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[dawsonct]

Maybe so cait, but the perception of the Mariners as a team that can’t and won’t pay to keep their home-grown talent hasn’t been the case, overall, for the last twenty years.

So I guess those first four years of your life as a Mariner fan were either quite traumatic, or you are merely repeating a no longer valid perception of the Mariners being incapable of signing/retaining talent.

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As I have stated many times, if the Yankmees want a player, the way the ML system is currently set up, they can simply over-pay for the talent.

For crying out loud, they decided that Alex Rodriguez was underpaid at $25 million/year, so they renegotiated with him for a higher salary.

Their infield makes more money than many teams entire roster.

The Yankmees are the team for the emotionally fragile.

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Coastie, I’m still waiting to hear your spin about how Philadelphia fans, despite their incredible legacy of generational devotion and two recent WS appearances, brand new stadium, and much larger metro area, fail to outdraw the woeful Seattle Mariners and their supposedly placid, uninterested, and non-supportive fan base.

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Chirp, chirp, chirp…….

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[Jiggers]

All I remember is how he ditched us for Cincinnatti. I voted no for a new baseball stadium back then. Our votes didn’t matter, Safeco was still built anyways. I’d respect him more if he didn’t come back and just retired there instead of holding us hostage again the last 18 months. The Mariners are a farm team itself. Other teams reap the rewards after we trade those players. I’m not bitter. That’s how it rolls with me.

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[displacedcoastie]

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[miws]

Struck speechless, coastie? ;-)

Mike

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[displacedcoastie]

I’m never speechless, I deleted my post because I thought it was too East Coast for delicate Seattle ears. I decided to tone it down. Lord knows I don’t want to be banned for life.

Hey DawsonsCreek, what are you my wife? Yelling at me for not answering quick enough. I promise I’ll call next time I am going to be late Sweetie. I was busy doing things you know nothing about. Actually going outside and playing sports, watching my team in a Championship series, and making love to a woman. You should try all three, super fun. As for defending my city to you, I feel that is as pointless as hiring Pete Carroll but I will do it for the fans. The Vet was a dump. There was no parking, rats ran free, and even if 40,000 people showed up there was still 25,000 empty seats. It was better to watch it a home or listen to the radio. It was a football stadium. CBP has averaged over 3 million fans the last six years, Safeco hasn’t cracked 3 million once over those same years. We have been to back to back World Series, Seattle, well we all know your “history”. You guys put up good attendance numbers early in the decade because the excitement of a new stadium was still there. Then as the decade progressed you guys realized you can’t polish a turd. By the way I was at the Mariners game on Sunday. Great fans. The lady next to me was a season ticket holder who alternated between reading a cooking book and playing video poker on her phone during the game. The guy next to her had a laptop out most of the game. My two year old payed better attention to the game. I decided to try an experiment and starting chatting to some people near me about baseball. I discussed the importance of a double switch in the late innings and whether WHIP was a viable stat. As I thought, I might as well have been speaking spanish. The reason I bring this up is to establish that seattle fans are unknowledgeable and wishy washy, just like you Creek. Now I know you will glue your pasty face to the computer to find a website to argue against me with so bring it Mary.

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[dawsonct]

Don’t know about your seatmates, but Safeco offers some sort of wireless connection so fans can catch up-to-date stats and watch live pitch location updates to your PSP or laptop.

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Good luck finding ANY fans in an American League ballpark that would bother to discuss double-switches and other NL esoterica that we in the AL don’t need to think about.

Personally, I like that the manager in the NL is a bit more involved and needs to make a few more late-game decisions than their AL contemporaries. I would also like to see AL pitchers bat. People like Roger Clemmons needed to face the other pitcher, and if they are vulnerable to HBP’s then they will be more accountable for the game they are throwing.

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I don’t need to brag to you. To me, your acceptance is meaningless.

I DO hope your “woman” doesn’t spring a leak, seem like you need the constant reassurance that her silent companionship offers.

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So much for the tough-guy image you try to maintain; letting a few rats scurrying around keep you and the rest of the Phillies supposedly rabid fan-base from turning out. What a bunch of weenies

I’ll stand by the statistics that PROVE Seattle Mariners fan are among the most devoted in ML Baseball.

If we weren’t experiencing the coldest, wettest Spring that we have had in quite some time, the per game average would be much higher.

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BTW, I am NOT defending the MANY Seattle fans who haven’t figured out the subtleties of the game, such as, get up BETWEEN the half-innings to use the can, get snacks, wander around the stadium, etc.

I can’t understand those who sit through the damned moose routine, and as soon as the play starts, they and their wife and their five spawn decide to get up and shuffle out of the row.

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And the wave; friggin’ save it for the Seahawks.

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[dawsonct]

And by the way, what is wrong with backing up my opinions with FACTS?

NOTHING you have stated is backed up with numbers, instead, when my easily tracked down information proved my point, you lashed out at me with personal insults.

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Maybe you need to be asking yourself some tough questions.

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[sam-c]

amen dawsonct.

it would be nice if they could get rid of the stupid games on the big screen. The “fans” are more than willing to do the wave or watch a hat trick on the jumbro-tron, yet they cheer for the team only when the flashing lights tell them to. There have been times where the opposing team is on base, threatening to score, 2 outs, a 3-2 count, and I’m screaming, cheering loudly for the pitcher get the batter out, and people look at me, like, ‘what is your deal- why are you screaming ?’

Maybe the ‘lack of passion’ has something to do with the fact that a lot of people here have better things to do than worshipping a bunch of (usually) overpaid athletes who may or may not be using steroids. It takes lots of energy, which people here use to do other things

regarding Griffey, seeing as how I’ve been listening to M’s games on the radio for the past 10 years, I have to say that hearing replays and/ or memories about ’95 is starting to get boring- they need to do something soon.

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[dawsonct]

I feel Jack and Wak have them on the right track.

I’ve been saying since Safeco opened that the M’s needed to concentrate on pitching and defense, and get a bunch of speedy, high-average, line-drive hitters. It seems to me that is the direction they are concentrating on now.

Bill Bavasi did a lot of things wrong, including not having a coherent plan for long-term growth. VERY difficult to believe that he is a THIRD GENERATION baseball man; guess he never paid attention.

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