"Hillary Clinton" – A Historic Nominee ? The Very first Felon to be nominated

[mark47n]

POTATO!!!!

[runs away]

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[HappyOnAlki]

Mark47n — you win!

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[dhg]

I would call this discussion “vibrant”. I started to swing in the personal and there were some accusations flung but it got back on track. It’s important to hear both sides. I, personally, actually know a Trump supporter! And what I gleaned from his remarks is much the same as here: That government has run amuck, that it is becoming imperialist and that we must do everything we can to shrink it. Now, we Dems know that no one grew the government like the Republicans. Although they say they want to shrink government, what they really want to do is govern people’s bedrooms while allowing monopolistic corporations to run amuck. Trump is not going to shrink government. Rounding up 11 million people is going to require a large army of government-trained troops. He’s not going to reduce the budget because building a wall and rounding up 11 million people is going to cost a lot. he has no plans to reduce the number of people on welfare. He really offers NOTHING that Trump supporters actually want except to be a stick in the eye to Replublicans for screwing them over for years.

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[JoB]

what i find so difficult to understand is why Republicans believe that the policies which have failed miserably will somehow work now?
Or that it will take less government to interfere more in the personal lives of citizens?

i get that they have people who point fingers and say that it’s anyone’s fault but their own…
but it doesn’t really take much research to figure out that if you do nothing.. nothing gets done.

this is broken and we do need to fix it…
but i am not sure how when so many refuse to realize that there is a problem beyond “them”..

Will Rogers once spoke to the common man in a language they understood.
I don’t know who does that now.

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[jincy55]

I think there are probably a lot more R’s in W. Seattle than people realize… but we don’t like to participate much in forums like this or publicly due to the persecution from the D’s around here. I’ve lived many places in the world and find Seattle to be the most intolerant place to voice an opinion that the masses (yes, mainly D’s) don’t agree with. I, like many others, just keep my mouth shut about opinions for fear of retribution. God forbid I say that I like smaller government. Or, feel like every person of working age (that is mentally and physically capable) should try their hardest to better themselves and get a job and not rely on others for assistance. Or, want to keep more of my hard earned money versus give it to the government to make decisions on how to spend (and many times unwisely spend.) Or, not be 100% ok with legalized weed. Or, actually like cops/law enforcement. Or, want to manage my own health care. Or, think that we need to secure our borders, not only from potential threats that can and do come in, but also from a mass influx of people in general so that our citizens have the most opportunity for success. Or.. the list goes on and on. I’m sure someone will now call me the other “R” word as that’s what people like me get labeled that for having these types of opinions.

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[mark47n]

I love a new playmate! Yes, I’m one of the ones that you’ll view as shouting you down so sit down and hold on as I go down your list:

Like you, I’ve lived in more than one place and have found that the dominant political paradigm in opposition to mine. However, I still don’t stop putting my point of view out there, that’s on you.

Smaller gov’t. What,exactly does that mean? It strikes me as a dog whistle. In fact, in my lifetime, the only political party that has, as a matter of routine, grown gov’t is the R’s. Think TSA, DHS (merged several different department together which required a new level of beauracracy to oversee it) as some of the grossest examples.

Given that R’s have raised taxes plenty I don’t have a lot to say. You like having roads, police, EMS, courts, etc? Well, that’s what taxes are for. Oddly, in juxtaposition the R’s spend like drunken sailors compared to the D’s. Those pesy numbers just don’t lie, don’t you just hate that? Perhaps if corporations paid their share rahter than getting billions in refunds (one particular oil company reveiving 3bn alone) as they are some of the largest users of some of those governmental structures.

What would “secure borders” look like to you, exactly? Given that every act of terrorism perpetrated on our soil, with the exception of 9-11, was perpetrated by Americans your concerns are completely unfounded. If it’s due to illegal immigration there is nothing you’ll be able to do about it. Every country deals with this one way or another and has since the idea of closed borders existed, a relatively new construct. As to H1-B visas, these are usually applied for by large corporations that are funding your side of the aisle.

Healthcare: You do have control of your healthcare. This may come as a shock to you but D’s are not all so thrilled by the idea of being required to purchase INSURANCE from a FOR PROFIT company by dint of simply being alive. This is a plan that was created by Tricky Dick, resurrercted by Bob Dole and the Heritage foundation. The R’s shoud be stoked by this as if funnels more of your hard earned money into the pocket of corporations (read CEOs).

You last sentence is a lame construct wherein you climb up on the cross, pound in two nails and expect me to pound in the third. What “R” word is that? Ridiculous? Revolting, repellant, redundant, rejected, recanted, rotten, resolutely resistant to reason? These are just a few “R”words. I know a whole lot more.

Have whatever opinions you want just have something to actually back them up, if you can’t back it up perhaps you’re just wrong.

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[JanS]

Mark47n…thank you. Do people not realize that in a setting like this forum, that if you post here, be sure to have your facts straight, and be able to back them up? Of course you’re going to get people who disagree with you. That’s life. Name calling? This “libtard” doesn’t know what that is…and , really, I have no idea what the posters other “R” word is, either.

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[JoB]

jincy55

I agree with most of this…..
” God forbid I say that I like smaller government. Or, feel like every person of working age (that is mentally and physically capable) should try their hardest to better themselves and get a job and not rely on others for assistance. Or, want to keep more of my hard earned money versus give it to the government to make decisions on how to spend (and many times unwisely spend.) Or, not be 100% ok with legalized weed. Or, actually like cops/law enforcement. Or, want to manage my own health care. Or, think that we need to secure our borders, not only from potential threats that can and do come in, but also from a mass influx of people in general so that our citizens have the most opportunity for success.”

i am as ok with legalized weed as i am with legalized alcohol and legalized tobacco.. which is to say i am decidedly uncomfortable… but my bottom line has far more to do with abuse than with use.. which likely puts us on the same page.

So you might wonder why i am not a Republican.

Part of the answer lies in my faith.. yup.. in my faith.. but the other part lies in the fact that although i hear a lot of rhetoric from the Republicans.. i don’t see any real action on most of the really big items on that list.

i agree that those who are able should work.. but.. also believe that those who work should make enough to live on.. which is a real stickler in Republican land.
I also think we ought to have viable programs for those who can’t work… and trust me our social security safety net leaves those who are finally approved in the same position as those who work but don’t make enough to live on.

I am in favor of law enforcement.. and i like cops.. my brother was one… but although i am tickled when an officer shows up when i need one… i don’t like individual police officers who abuse their authority with impunity.

And i sure as heck would like smaller government… or at least a more efficient use of government funds. (Wasn’t it Al Gore who did the bang up job of cutting/consolidating government agencies) But i have a real problem with subsidizing huge corporations that move jobs overseas.. and i have an equally hard time subsidizing the taxes of our nation’s stock market players… and.. to be honest i think our military budget is obscene given that we don’t adequately spend to support those who have served.

and i would be over the moon tickled to manage my own health care.. i am managed by my health care provider (insurance company) who decides what care i should and shouldn’t receive based on some actuarial tables compiled by people who do not actually practice health care. We pay big money for the privilege of regularly fighting for exceptions to their rules because for some reason my body is not ready to give up the fight but refuses to behave according to their schedules :(

isn’t it amazing how much we have in common but how differently we view our circumstances.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by JoB.

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[TanDL]

From Dictionary.com

PERSECUTION
“per-se-cu-tion
[pur-si-kyoo-shuh n]

Spell Syllables

noun
1. the act of persecuting.
2. the state of being persecuted.
3. a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate people based on their membership in a religious, ethnic, social, or racial group:”

I may disagree with you on some, but not all the points you made, but you can trust me on this: Persecution isn’t on my wish list for Republicans. I wish you weren’t so paranoid about all Democrats in Seattle. Some of us are darned nice people and Americans who love this country just like some conservatives. One of the things that makes this country great is that we have the freedom to disagree on issues of all sorts. Do you not agree with this? How have you been persecuted?

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[waynster]

yes I had too.. for the right… and maybe even for some on the left…..

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2016/09/05

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by waynster.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by waynster.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by waynster.

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[Mutt Ratsgninrom]

Lots of Kool Aid from both sides here. Mark me disgusted and resigned demo party a few years ago. Did not and will not join the GOP due to glassy eyed social issue right wing nuts that poison the brand. “Those who take extreme positions in American politics are always wrong” ~~~~ President Dwight Eisenhower.

That said, the Dem nominee did in fact sign two very restrictive non disclosure agreements on January 22, 2009. One is for Top Secret materials, the other is for Sensitive/Compartmentalized Information. Both affirm and acknowledge receipt of training and indoctrination in secure transmission, handing and retention of data. Both indicate there is no reservation or deceit on the part of the employee signing off.

The documents are on the State Department’s webpage the Judge in the Judicial Watch law suit forced state to create and populate with records. For your review I will attempt to post a link to the pdf of one of them. From there, it should be easy to dig up whatever else you want. All federal court records are kept on a site called “Pacer”. The cases are in the DC District. Your first 1500 pages are free.

Make up your own mind about whether it was allowed to set up a private server as one signed the non disclosure agreements. Also note there are emails that are still so sensitive the court would not order them published. There are things that are “born classified”. Here’s your link. I hope this works:

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/HRC-SCI-NDA1.pdf

Happy reading. The image is not clear, probably by design, enlarge it and you’re in business.

I personally don’t think there is any defense for transmission or retention on an unofficial server. Your mileage may vary.

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[JoB]

sigh.. big sigh..
are we saying that Hillary signed something that the last few secretaries of state didn’t sign?
or are we saying that it’s ok that they signed and using their best judgment not only used private servers but destroyed emails
but it’s not ok for Hillary to do business in the most expeditious manner?

if we are going to set a new standard.. and it’s obvious to me that we need to.. at least in the quality of the communications network we provide for our government workers.. then let’s set a new standard.

retroactively applying a double standard just doesn’t meet the sniff test for either fairness or culpability…

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by JoB.

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[JTB]

Mutt, I don’t believe Hillary or her apologists are defending what she did; she’s been acknowledging it was a mistake for some time. I appreciate she wasn’t as forthcoming and clean about it at first as she should have been, and that served to weaken her credibility. But the legal issue is what matters, that and whether or not any of the classified material got into the wrong hands, and the FBI investigation for the justice department found no basis for legal action even though they strongly condemned her action.

This remains an issue mostly for those who didn’t like Hillary in the first place. Nothing new here.

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[aa]

Capt Dave- you need to read more about the plans trump/pence has for a Women’s right to choose. They plan to do away with abortion rights completely so when you say we will “have control over our lives”. That will not be true for over half of the country’s population if trump/pence are in office.

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[captainDave]

aa: I don’t base my measure of freedom on a women’s right to kill her offspring for convenience. Last I heard, Trump’s position on abortion was that he prefers it as a state’s rights issue. But if he has taken a stance against eugenics, then that is fine by me since the concept of abortion diminishes the value of human life. The supporting arguments for Hillary’s late term abortion ideas can be equally made for exterminating the unwanted elderly when resources get scarce under socialism. If we allow our leaders to progress further down this road, the right to die issue can easily be transformed into an obligation to die. This would be the ultimate impingement on freedom.

Why are you not concerned about all the other freedoms that you will lose under the corrupt imperial presidency proposed by Clinton? While women will have the freedom of sex without consequences, you won’t have the right to choose between two different brands of toilet paper let alone anything else.

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[JoB]

Captain Dave..
Do you base your measure of freedom on a woman’s right to walk down city streets unmolested?
If not.. why not?

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[captainDave]

JoB: I don’t believe any group of people should have rights over any other group of people. I know that is a common them of the left–to promise “things” to specific classes of people for votes. Most of the time those “things” never really get delivered. i.e.: the forty-year-old democrat war on poverty that has left more people impoverished than ever.

Where are you finding that molesting women is a legal activity? (Other than Hillary’s ability to exonerate rapists and destroy the lives of women molested by her husband).

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[JanS]

ohferfuxache….

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[JTB]

JanS Thanks, just the right amount of due consideration.

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[JoB]

Captain dave..

one group of people currently already enjoys more “rights” than others..
that it happens to be the group that you belong to does not make it any more right.

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[captainDave]

JoB: What special “group” do you claim I belong to and what specific legal “rights” do you believe I have over other people in Seattle?

Meanwhile, back on subject. Here is a link to a 1994 documentary about the Clinton crime syndicate that some of you may enjoy: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-new-clinton-chronicles/

The drugs, sex, murder, corruption and government abuse surrounding the Clintons go back a long ways. I am pretty confident that all you lefties will completely denounce anything negative about the Clintons as “conspiracy”. But have a look and a laugh anyway.

The sick thing about Hillary is that she stood by Bill’s side through decades of these nefarious acts. She had to have known, and in many cases, was intimately involved. Maybe most of it is lies fabricated by the Koch brothers? But if only 5% of it is true, the Clintons should not be anywhere near the white house.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by captainDave.

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[dobro]

“The drugs, sex, murder, corruption and government abuse surrounding the Clintons go back a long ways. I am pretty confident that all you lefties will completely denounce anything negative about the Clintons as “conspiracy”.”

Well, this crude piece of completely debunked propaganda film you cite certainly proves nothing except that you believe crap that supports your point of view. And, no, i’m not going to bother to link to all the debunking. Use your google and do your own work.

“The sick thing about Hillary is that she stood by Bill’s side through decades of these nefarious acts.”

Nefarious acts which have never been charged, proven, or convicted except in the dreams of the vast right wing conspiracy.

“She had to have known, and in many cases, was intimately involved…”

A little mind reading now with a side of unproven assertion…surely you can do better than that.

“But if only 5% of it is true, the Clintons should not be anywhere near the white house.”

What if none of it is true? you certainly haven’t offered anything to corroborate it other than warmed over right wing propaganda.

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[captainDave]

dobro: I am open to seeing evidence of a massive coordinated right-wing conspiracy that involved tens of thousands of people who have made claims against the Clintons. (I can’t help but wonder if there is a secret handshake among them?) Is there a documentary that explains such a conspiracy? –How it was done and why it was so relentlessly levied against the supposedly pure and selfless Clintons?

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[JanS]

dobro…on other social media, I ask for links to indictments, trials (the interwebs missed them, I guess), convictions. It’s gotta be links to the real thing, straight out. Otherwise, they have nothing, and 5 bucks with that will get them something at Starbucks. Tired of innuendo, opinions that are not fact. If they tell me to research, myself, that’s an open admission that they have nothing. Most do that, or hand me something from Breitbart, etc. that is pure conjecture. Otherwise, I just tell them to STFU. And I usually block them. And if they throw “Killary” at me, automatic block. I suppose that if it was on the interwebs, to them it must be true. And, of course, you always get back “It’s a conspiracy, and the truth is not on the interwebs, but my source is right” Hah!

Stephen Colbert had a great opening Monday night. Jump to about the 3:00 mark…and it’s almost NSFW. And I know some will be offended…but it’s all pretty funny.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by JanS.

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[waynster]

Its all rigged…. the elections are rigged just ask the Donald ( not the duck he is smarter).

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/donald-trump-rigged-election/index.html

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