Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Guys holding "No Referendum 74" sign…
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November 5, 2012 at 5:59 pm #776424
dobroParticipantwow! A boneheaded list of homophobic talking points appears right there as we speak!
November 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm #776425
WSBKeymasterWhich have been deleted, as per our rules. There is ZERO tolerance here for criticism/attacks/snideness/whatever based on traits with which people are born – and that includes sexual orientation. (Which goes the other way, too – let us know if somebody makes a generalization/attack/whatever against heterosexuals.)
I’m checking in on the site a little more closely because of the spam that the filter isn’t catching, which means I’m catching a few more rule-breakers pre-flag, but please don’t assume we’ll see it – please hit “report this post” (as so many kindly do – I particularly appreciate the spam-slayers – why a bot in ShenZhen, China, is interested in messing around here, who knows) … thanks, TR
November 5, 2012 at 6:49 pm #776426
JVMemberQuestion here: if “love” is the criteria then shouldn’t any combination qualify as a “marriage” then? If you say no, aren’t you engaging in hate speech?
November 5, 2012 at 6:58 pm #776427
BostonmanMemberWe are debating the issue because we don’t live in a country where everyone is the same.
Thank god
November 5, 2012 at 7:01 pm #776428
HMC RichParticipantHey Redblack. Everyone can get married. Nobody is stopping them. It might not be the person you want to marry but they can get married.
When I got married I was offended that I needed a Marriage License required by the state.
Personally, I didn’t mind JV’s pointed humor or sarcasm. Democrats complain more than Republicans and don’t laugh as much, unless they are attacking Republicans.
Hmmm. This has got me thinking, if I were a member of the LDS or some similarly minded folks, I might start an initiative push for multiple partners. In the Arab Spring countries the more non-western Imam’s and followers who have come to power are pushing to have multiple wives again. Even if it is 10 percent of them that is still 100 million.
Locally, I have been told it takes a village. I think I have a solution for all of the single moms out there. I have some attractive neighbors who are single (and some attractive married ones, but we need to leave them alone, it wouldn’t be proper to be a home wrecker). I have needs… I mean. . . room in my home to help. Lets allow polygamy so men can marry the single moms. It works for the undecided gender participant. Straight, Gay, Bi, all get to join. Call it a civil union orgy. The Government will love it. Instant support group for the gals, guys, and undecided. Woo hoo. Wait a minute. I will only vote for traditional polygamy. One man many women. God help me when they gang up on me.
Nah. I voted for prop 74 and I am glad that the guys who were against it were up there. It is their right. If you call it hate you are being closed minded.
It really isn’t about marriage, it is about government involvement in your lives regarding partnerships. I like Smitty’s idea but you don’t have to. Liberty. Love It.
November 5, 2012 at 7:14 pm #776429
dobroParticipantAfter all the homophobic slurs are done with, here’s the point. Marriage is licensed by the state, whether you like it or not. That’s why you get a “marriage license”. It’s a contract you enter into that requires a sanction from the state. The state doesn’t care at all what kind of ceremony, religious or not, that you have to comemmorate it. Once you buy the license you’re married as far as the state is concerned.
Since the state is conferring certain rights on those with a marriage license it is discrimination to deny those rights to certain classes of people based on sexual orientation. It really has nothing to do with religion, or polygamy, or incest, or animal abuse. Why is that so hard to understand?
November 5, 2012 at 7:42 pm #776430
kootchmanMemberNo, the state is not denying rights… they don’t exist. If I call a a cow a crow, doesn’t make it so. No matter how many times I do it. Man, did you see that hot looking lawnmower outside the True Value redblack?
But here is a thing to mull over Dobro…. look at the “special” rights granted to folks based on sexual orientation. That’s blatant discrimination. “Hate’ crimes gives preferential treatment and denies me equal protection … a civil right, a constitutional protection denied. Want to give up those carved out exceptions?A mugging is a mugging… why is someone else being mugged more “serious” than I being mugged? Let’s repeal hate crime statutes then. They are discriminatory.
November 5, 2012 at 8:15 pm #776431
JVMemberC’mon kootch, that argument is far too rational! Using facts, reason and the constitution and stuff!
Be prepared, those who have no argument will just call you homophobic and declare that you aren’t worth talking to. Not somebody with a difference of opinion: homophobic. (Ironically, calling somebody homophobic is tolerated.)
No argument needed! See how that works?
November 5, 2012 at 8:31 pm #776432
TanDLParticipant“No, the state is not denying rights… they don’t exist.”
Can you clarify please? Are you saying that people who are “married” do not have any more rights than those who are not married or who are in a domestic partnership?
I’m assuming here that dobro refers to “the state” as an inclusive term that covers all government, not just the State of Washington.
November 5, 2012 at 9:13 pm #776433
HMC RichParticipantThis state has a domestic partner registry for same sex persons and for people 62 and over. The Feds have passed laws regarding DOMA. That only men and women can marry. If this passes the state and Feds are at odds over a word. And it isn’t the word “is”. Kootch is right.
My former employer gave full medical insurance to same sex couples living together. (And it was owned by Rupert Murdoch). There was a time when I lived with a person who was the opposite sex. I couldn’t get coverage for both of us, and I was helping to raise her son! The argument was that we could marry but the gay/lesbian couple couldn’t. No they couldn’t but they weren’t prohibited from marrying someone of the opposite sex. I know, a bit inane but true. The market made room for the gender exception. Not everywhere but business after business and their HR departments made decisions that recognized the plight of same gender couples. So in essence, which I didn’t mind, the same sex couple received special benefits. Yes, they had more rights.
By the way. Kootch and I are not against 74. But we aren’t praising it as the second coming either. Some of your arguments assume everyone who is not with you is homophobic. Should I assume others are heterophobic automatically? Of course not. Relax. Read something funny. Make fun of a Republican if you want. Chill.
November 5, 2012 at 9:34 pm #776434
TanDLParticipantA) You speak for Kootchman now?
B) I asked for clarification on Kootchman’s statement regarding married people vs domestic partnership people, as recognized by “the state” not people just living together for a good time, vs gay/lesbian couples, who have a beef with their former employer.
C) I’m pretty “chilled” as the old 80’s term goes. Don’t have to make fun of a Republican to “chill” although I’d be happy to look up some Republican jokes on the Internet if you need to laugh at yourself. I don’t have a handy portfolio of jokes that make fun of others, but I’m sure I could find some.
D) If you were addressing someone else… my bad.
November 5, 2012 at 10:17 pm #776435
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
you said…
“Democrats complain more than Republicans and don’t laugh as much, unless they are attacking Republicans.”
my sister-in-law posted in facebook today…
“don’t worry about the early lead democrats will have… Republicans will vote when they gt off work”
day before yesterday i heard a discussion on NPR in which this was said…
“democrats don’t donate time or money.. they just want someone else to pay for it”
I can understand political attacks..
i will attack your ideas each and every time you post them…
but as a democrat who works,laughs and donates both time and money… I think these characterizations have gone too far.
want to know what a democrat looks and acts like?
take off your political hat and look in a mirror.
We are all people.
Some of us are nicer than others…
but we are still all people
November 5, 2012 at 10:19 pm #776436
JoBParticipantkootch..
i don’t know how to tell you this kootch..
but in the right circumstances even you could be the victim of a hate crime
you won’t think those rights are so special if you need them.
November 5, 2012 at 10:45 pm #776437
miwsParticipantRich, how would marrying somebody of the opposite gender be beneficial to a homosexual?
Mike
November 5, 2012 at 10:56 pm #776438
SpodieMemberWe are debating the issue because we don’t live in a country where everyone is the same.
Thank god
I don’t want to jump to conclusions because
this statement sounds like you are thanking god that we live in a country where all men are NOT created equal. (which we currently do)
Could you please clarify?
November 5, 2012 at 11:07 pm #776439
WorldCitizenParticipantKootchman Said:
“No, the state is not denying rights… they don’t exist. If I call a a cow a crow, doesn’t make it so. No matter how many times I do it. Man, did you see that hot looking lawnmower outside the True Value redblack?”
Horrible logic.
A cow and a crow are different species, right? I’m not even going to touch the absurdity of the lawnmower statement…
A man and a woman are the same species. No one is asking for (what I can only assume you’re referencing here) interspecies wedlock here. They just want anyone of the same species to be able to be married.
The rights only don’t exist because of the denial of them since a less culturally diverse time. When society grows and evolves it allows wrongs brought about by the ignorances of the past to be rectified. It happened when women were allowed to vote. It happened (kind of) when slaves were granted citizenship. It happened again with desegregation. People just want human rights to continue to evolve to where they SHOULD be. If you’re against this, you’re definitely on the wrong side of history. The history of HUMAN rights, not interspecies rights.
The false analogies are astounding, and just make people who use them look (warranted or not) like intolerant assholes.
Oh, and to JV: Calling someone homophobic is totally ok, just so long as they are displaying reasonably homophobic behavior. I’m not saying Kootch or you were doing so, but many people do.
November 5, 2012 at 11:47 pm #776440
dobroParticipant“…look at the “special” rights granted to folks based on sexual orientation.”
Ah, the old change the subject ploy. I know it plays well to your mini-kootch cheerleader, but we were discussing Ref 74. There’s nothing in there about hate crimes. I know you’d love to have all those “special” rights that come your way when you’re targeted for violence based on your sexual orientation, race, or gender but, alas, old white man, its not happening. Maybe start a new thread if you want to whine some more about how old white men are discriminated against.
November 6, 2012 at 2:34 am #776441
SpodieMemberNo, the state is not denying rights… they don’t exist.
The thing is, The Supreme Court says Marriage is a right. They figured it out in the sixties when the state of Virgina wanted to outlaw interracial marriage. These days, it seems super bigoted and absolutely ridiculous that people would attempt to ‘define marriage’ as being between one white man and one white woman.
Soon, you folks will sound just as shameful and ridiculous as those who opposed interracial marriage did.
Loving v. Virgina – 1967
“Marriage is one of the “basic civil rights of man,” fundamental to our very existence and survival.”
“Hate’ crimes gives preferential treatment and denies me equal protection ..
I agree completely. ALL crimes are “hate” crimes. There should not be a different punishment for committing the exact same crime on one citizen vs another.
Your “two wrongs make a right” ‘logic’ isn’t cutting it.
November 6, 2012 at 5:45 am #776442
redblackParticipantgood god.
i’m not sure what the hell is wrong with fully half of you – who seem to support R-74, but don’t seem to get the compassion aspect of the effort.
blah blah blah marriage is already legal for gays blah blah blah whatever.
the fact is that gay “married” couples DO NOT have the same legal rights as hetero married couples.
i think you people are shameful. and not because you’re christian or hetero or however you define yourselves.
i think you’re shameful because you see a difference and because you see it so clearly that you want your government to make laws about it.
i don’t know how to make you not see your own prejudice. then again, for the past 30 years, i’ve been saying the same thing about people who insist on seeing racial differences among americans.
evolve.
because i have to tell you, it’s really nice to not be bound by religious doctrine (perceived or otherwise), stereotypes, and prejudices.
November 6, 2012 at 6:36 am #776443
HMC RichParticipantMike, it wouldn’t be, but that is “legal”. Like I said, an inane argument.
Now, here is some timely news to help the undecided.
Having adopted a child, this is good news.
November 6, 2012 at 6:41 am #776444
dobroParticipantHere’s a newsflash from my own studies- children with loving, caring parents do better in school and are happier in life. Not homosexual, not heterosexual…the key words are loving, caring.
November 6, 2012 at 6:51 am #776445
HMC RichParticipantRedblack. I do not care who you or someone else falls in love with. But. Gay is not straight and Straight is not gay. That is the difference. There are some differences between the two in the area of attraction but as a general rule those are personal. That is all.
I need to be consistent here. Just like skin color or ethnicity, I too wish we were a bit more color blind. Prejudice exists and we who are old enough to know are seeing a changing paradigm.
We should be able to tolerate our differences without demonizing each other. I believe in Martin Luther King’s statement about content of character.
So, to be clear. Some people in this election will vote for Romney because he is Mormon. Some will vote for Obama because of his African American biology. Some will vote because the name is funny. I am voting because I prefer the ideas put forth by one candidate over the other. Should I hold other people’s feet to the fire because they are voting for a biological or theological reason?
I believe we need to take in all factors to make an informed decision. In the end I do believe we want the same thing, but I believe the labels will be the difference in our opinions.
November 6, 2012 at 11:47 am #776446
kootchmanMemberI am voting for Romney because I want public schools in majority white districts, with incomes over 250K, to have dressage in their physical education programs at taxpayer expense. It that unreasonable? Laws of preferences are sometimes legitimate concerns of the state to engineer an outcome. SS Survivors Benefits for children being an example. Or, low income tax rates on capital gains so our businesses can capitalize at least possible cost and create jobs. Then they morph .. get worse… ie, capital gains on commodity trades where ownership may be measured in minutes…or when we create more SS dependents under the age of 62 than we do jobs. VA Home loans were designed to assist vets buy and purchase homes after WWll and relocate to the new urban centers of production and commerce. Then it became pork pie.. CRA, FHA, etc… so, pardon us as we look very cautiously and with a critical eye at things like expanded benefits and entitlements for “equality”… I would rather cut SS to preserve minor child survivor benefits and preserve the original intent and to keep the fund solvent. Regardless of gender status… if we are to preserve SS… childless couples IMO, should not get survivor benefits. If, one parent was occupied in non compensated childcare raising great kids and future citizens… they did us a great social service. Same sex or opposite sex. I would extend survivor benefits to the surviving partner.
November 6, 2012 at 1:29 pm #776447
JanSParticipantWTF?
November 6, 2012 at 1:52 pm #776448
redblackParticipantso, pardon us as we look very cautiously and with a critical eye at things like expanded benefits and entitlements for “equality”
dude. no one is asking for benefits that other people don’t already get.
it costs you NOTHING to support “gay marriage.”
i would think that you, smitty, and HMC, with your libertarian leanings, would take your discerning eyes and fully support an initiative that stops discrimination against a demographic that is actually more stable and successful than the “traditional” nuclear family – as opposed to what you are doing here, which seems to be, “i’ll vote for this initiative grudgingly, but i still have the right to hate the gays – or at least look at them with thinly-veiled disgust.”
but i guess i’ll take what i can get. if you check the yes bubble, we’re making some progress. i just wish you fully knew why it’s so important to so many other people.
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