- This topic has 43 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 2 months ago by TanDL.
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January 27, 2017 at 6:36 am #871921
JoBParticipantWe are seeing the results of the great lie fed to America.. that there was no difference between the democratic and republican parties.
OUr EPA, National Parks System and renewable energy departments have been silenced..
That means that the National Parks System can’t effectively communicate if you get lost in their woods.. that the EPA can’t attend science conferences or publish research and that the renewable energy department has been told not to talk about their work in their personal emails.i bet you thought all of those people downloading public science prior to the inauguration were silly.
the adds for Obamacare have been pulled even though everyone is still eligible for coverage this year.
The top officials at the State Department either walked out en-mass or were re-assigned to other duties or were purged.
Trump’s obsession with the Wall and his assertion that the Mexicans would pay for it has resulted in the cancellation of a state visit by the Mexican President and a Mexican standoff war of words that doesn’t bode well for the homeland Security projects we actually run in Mexico in conjunction with the Mexican government…
and the Voice of America is now run by the White House… yup.. the directors serve at the President’s pleasure… meanwhile our President is doing everything he can to silence the American press.
Those programs promoting small businesses.. cancelled for the most part…
and that’s just the short list. there is much much more.
And it’s only been a week.Perhaps it’s time to re-examine the big lie
January 27, 2017 at 6:54 am #871923
mark47nParticipantJanuary 27, 2017 at 10:19 am #871945
JTBParticipantJoB, doesn’t examining the big lie invite a decent into finger-pointing and similar right/wrong hindsight exercises that serve to distract from doing what is necessary to confront the assault on important government institutions?
Whether or not people appreciated that Trump meant exactly what he said and revealed exactly who he is throughout the campaign, it’s all obvious now. No point in admonishing those who were taken in and no point in wasting time trying to get his ardent supporters to see what’s unfolding. And then there are the many supporters who are getting exactly what they wanted—-disruption and dismantling of the political establishment and government institutions.The Alt Twitter account for the National Park Service now has three times the followers as did the original NPS account. That’s because people have realized they have to resist the takeover, the attempt to squelch the message about climate change.
It’s time to connect with and develop other ways to resist the Trump Bannon attack on some of our critical democratic institutions.
January 27, 2017 at 11:41 am #871967
captainDaveParticipantJoB: You have to look at the bright side. The irrational blowback from people like you is causing local politics to shift farther to the left in retaliation of the imagined Trump dictatorship. Think of the great opportunities you have to further your revolutionary leftist cause. While Trump is making America great, you guys can focus on trying to make Seattle a Communist hell hole!
Here is just a few things you can accomplish:
1.) Outlaw free speech to keep Trump supporters in the shadows. For that matter, maybe you can outlaw free thought all together and totally eliminate intellectual diversity from Seattle.
2.) Tax the rich so much that they leave. You don’t need any stinking richie rich people here! Seize their property and assets to redistribute to deserving people who will continue to vote liberal.
3.) Declare global warming a local emergency and make everyone ride a bike. Carbon tax the hell out of anyone who even think about using fossil fuels. Use the money to grow more pot.
4.) Outlaw capitalism altogether. There is nothing local government can’t do better than greedy entrepreneurs, right? Now is your time to finish what your liberal leaders have started. Your vision of the socialist nanny state has never been closer.
5.) And of course, protest, riot and lie to yourselves like there is no tomorrow because hate, anger and delusional hysteria solves everything.
By the way, phycologists are calling your condition “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. You and others here who ignore reality should probably seek professional help before you self destruct.
January 27, 2017 at 7:22 pm #872005
JoBParticipantJTB..
no.. this is not about finger pointing .. it’s about figuring out how to get back on track and not believing that resistance is an actual plan to achieve political goals.January 27, 2017 at 7:53 pm #872010
JanSParticipantI see Capt. Dave is here on this thread belittling people, too.
Everyone have a good weekend.
And if I never see the Abbreviation “Alt” again, I would be ecstatic.
January 27, 2017 at 8:32 pm #872021
redblackParticipanthey, captain!
republicans are in charge. you can’t blame democrats for what’s coming.
i wish you good fortune, though.
January 28, 2017 at 12:40 am #872037
captainDaveParticipantJanS: I hope media gets back to honestly reporting professionally investigated truth so there does not have to be an alternative universes. I would love to have the confidence to turn on CNN or read the New York Times and know that I wasn’t being lead to believe a biased political narrative in support of some ulterior agenda.
redblack: We the people are now in charge again. All of us. Dealing with the legacy of $200 trillion in unfunded liabilities are going to be a big hurdle.
January 28, 2017 at 12:55 am #872040
JanSParticipantyou want honest media? go here http://www.aljazeera.com/
no cable here…no CNN, no MSNBC, no Faux, none of those. sorry.And they all have a slant. Especially Breitbart. You don’t believe that? Oh, Dave….
January 28, 2017 at 7:45 am #872057
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave..
LOL… have you not looked at Trump’s cabinet choices?
we the people are definitely not in control.. not by a long shotJanuary 28, 2017 at 9:18 am #872058
miwsParticipantYeah, I’ve asked at least a couple times among these threads the captain’s opinion on into where Trump drained the swamp.
Unless I missed it, there hasn’t been an answer.
Mike
January 28, 2017 at 11:04 am #872070
JTBParticipantJoB, You described Trump’s actions and reactions within government agencies then said perhaps it’s time to examine the big lie.
OK. The biggest lie is that the Democratic Party has advanced policies that support working people. Sorry, the Democratic Party has been party to successive implementation of neoliberal assaults on middle income earners for decades. That’s why so many Democrats voted for Trump and also why so many Democrats didn’t vote.
The statement “there was no difference between the democratic and republican parties” while perhaps uttered frequently misses what I think is the key underlying perception in the electorate—-both parties have neglected the welfare of ordinary working Americans repeatedly.
I suspect that resistance may well be essential to forging real policies focused on real goals that Americans will feel are worth supporting. We’ll see how Jaxon Ravens fares today at the party gathering in Olympia to see how strong the move is to reform the party and reverse the backsliding that has been going on in WA. Otherwise, I think all opportunities for people to resist Trump’s takeover of the government are very important.
January 28, 2017 at 11:57 am #872085
captainDaveParticipantJanS: Al Jazeera is owned and controlled by the autocratic ruling families of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Al Jazeera is hardly a shining example of unbiased news coverage–it’s just made to look that way by the same elites that rule over all the other big networks. Follow the money.
Consider that last weeks women’s march in DC was organized by Saudi-funded muslim activist who is advocating for your acceptance of Sharia Law. It’s worth a little research into the dark side of politics that you won’t see on MSN or CNN. I am sorry, but to me, Linda Sarsour represents the antithesis of woman rights:
http://www.snopes.com/2017/01/25/womens-march-organizer-linda-sarsour/
Breitbart doesn’t pretend to be a balanced news source. They exist to counter the mainstream left-biased media lies with truthful facts, evidence and reason. Breitbart would have no purpose to exist if there were an ounce of integrity in mainstream journalism. With that said, Breitbart doesn’t often tell both sides of the story, so readers need to do there own investigation with multiple news sources to thoroughly understand some subjectively contentious issues. If you do this, you will see that there is far more substantively inaccurate reporting being done on the left to keep people ignorant, angry and energized to fight for things they really don’t want–like Sharia Law, for instance. There is no unbiased news sources in this polarized world today, but some have more truthful reporting than others.
JoB: The public has a choice because your elected officials in congress confirm the appointments. If you study Trump’s platform, without the negative leftist filter, you will see that most of his cabinet choices match up to his campaign promises. Which ones do you not think are reasonable?
JTB: How did President Trump exactly “takeover” the government? It seems to me that your tinfoil hat has a bunch of holes in it. Try using new foil instead of the stuff you covered your lasagna with last week. Consider that Trump and the majority of America are the counter revolutionaries of the socialist revolution.
January 28, 2017 at 2:02 pm #872096
JTBParticipantCaptain Dave, have you Defoo’d your folks as all good followers of the cult leader Molyneux are encouraged to do? Or do they indulge your anarcho-capitalist leanings? I suppose they may be already deceased, thus sparing both you and them the awkwardness. But if that’s the case, it would make you one of the older acolytes of Moly who seems to have a primarily young, impressionable audience, the sort who are susceptible to his pap. Learning that you favor him, I’m comforted to know that my initial opinion of the man as someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about was on point.
January 28, 2017 at 7:59 pm #872129
JoBParticipantJTB
like it or not.. this country has two political parties.. the democrats and the republicans.so explain to me how villainizing and weakening the democratic party helps working people…
what that brought us is President Donald Trump and a Republican controlled Senate and Congress and a decades long job of getting our government out of their hands.. if in fact we can do it at all.
We went from having a functional party fighting Republican control that gave us a chance to change policy in a way that would be beneficial to a ruling Republican party that is making every policy decision it can to not only disenfranchise marginalized people within the United States but the working class.
and you want to double down on the same strategy that has brought us this loss?
I don’t think those who have everything.. including their lives… to lose can afford those kinds of principles…
outcome matters and the outcome of this strategy has been horrific. the faster we figure this out the better chance we have of changing the balance of power in the House and the Senate in the next election..
It won’t be enough to throw the bums out. We need to have a viable coalition that includes any new Representatives and Senators… and for that.. i am sorry.. but we actually need the democratic party… a strong democratic party.
Do i think they are perfect? No. Do i think we stand a better chance with them than with the Republicans? I think their actions since the election should answer that question beyond any shadow of a doubt…
but maybe not.
if not we are indeed doomed .. because as we have seen time and time again across the world.. the resistance just isn’t that effective against fascist regimes… whether those regimes lean left or right
- This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by JoB.
January 28, 2017 at 8:10 pm #872131
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave
“Consider that last weeks women’s march in DC was organized by Saudi-funded muslim activist who is advocating for your acceptance of Sharia Law.”
only in that alternative universe where an alternate fact becomes true with repetition is this statement even remotely true .. and even there it’s pretty sketchy for anyone who manages to rub two thoughts together.
i am sorry but you are becoming little more than comic relief
January 28, 2017 at 8:51 pm #872134
JTBParticipantSorry JoB, but as far as I’m concerned it’s been some time since the Democratic Party could be characterized as being a “functional party fighting Republican control.” In 2008, Obama was extremely popular and had support of the Democratic Party. Yet, they together failed to push through his agenda because they didn’t rally the people who put Obama in office. The rise of the Tea Party and the feckless response of the Democrats and White House gutted the opportunity for Medicare for all, the finance industry was let off the hook for massive fraud, and nobody addressed the challenges faced by workers who lost jobs beyond extending unemployment benefits. Rather than call the Republicans out and agree to meaningful border security, the party let the ambiguity linger and fester so it could remain an issue for the GOP and, of course, Trump. Of course, the Dems figured it would be all good for them given the numbers. The numbers weren’t big enough.
It may well be that out of the widespread lack of confidence in the Democratic Party, a new wave of activists will essentially take over and set a new course. I actually think that would be worth exploring before setting out to build a new party. But the old guard that protected Hillary and resisted Bernie has a vested interest in keeping control of the apparatus and, unfortunately, a total lack of sensitivity to the political challenges faced by ordinary Americans or, even worse, solutions.
Rather than make an assumption, I’ll ask exactly what strategy do you think I’m doubling down on, a strategy you seem to think “brought us to this loss?” I think the strategy of the Democratic Party and its historical performance brought us this loss as I sketched out above. I’m saying that’s exactly the wrong strategy to double down on.
January 29, 2017 at 12:04 am #872158
captainDaveParticipantJoB: Where is my facts untrue? Just an hour ago, I got an email from Linda Sarsour through the George Soros-funded leftist protest group “MoveOn.org”. So I guess I will assume she is also affiliated with their protest efforts too.
JTB: Maybe there just isn’t enough people to rally for the communist cause anymore? Remember what happened on Reagan’s second run, a lot of moderate liberals switched sides. What you have is a juggernaut brewing. Regardless of Trump, people are waking up to the destructive ambitions of deceptive leftist tyranny and rejecting it. It would suck to be a to be you right now. Maybe you can share your plans with your grandchildren and they can pick up the march again someday when cognizant people die off?
The trouble with the Democrat party is that it was taken over by third-generation academic marxist political hacks who don’t understand the real world. You guys don’t know how to stop with your looney social engineering theories rather than going out and talking to actual constituents. The only time you do talk to anyone, it’s for the purpose of converting them into frustrated useful idiots to fight some bastardized delusionary cause.
January 29, 2017 at 1:18 am #872161
JanSParticipantHey Dave…it’s fair and truthful( I really don’t think you have the brain to recognize that…esp. since you get your news from Breitbart, far right wing supremacist sources)…a far cry from the propaganda that you listen to now. Yes, propaganda at a neo-nazi, white supremacist site like Breitbart…and Fox News, who even call themselves “entertainment” not news… so don’t hand me that story you are looking for a news source that doesn’t spew propaganda…it’s just damned words, a big fat lie, and you mean nothing of the sort.You, my friend, think the crap that you mire yourself in doesn’t stink. What an effing joke. You and what you spew are a waste of our time…as much of a joke as Bannon and Trump …done, done, done. If you were on another forum, you would have been blocked by most people by now. We are much more lenient here.We can’t block. But..believe anything you say? Oh, please. And the rest of you, if you find it judicious, educational to continue with Dave’s charade, feel free…what a waste of time.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by JanS.
January 29, 2017 at 7:33 am #872175
JoBParticipantJTB..
i think you bought a song and dance..the Democratic party isn’t there for “us” any more so if we have to let’s burn this house down and start over…all of that “revolution” talk sounds great until you actually think through who will pay the collateral damage for burning down the house…
Women will pay. Children will pay. Minorities will pay. Immigrants will pay. The elderly will pay. Anyone disabled will pay. Anyone with chronic illness will pay. and yes.. those workers you say the party didn’t care about.. they will pay too. It’s just that the price will be a whole lot higher for anyone who is marginalized.
there are a whole lot of things that you take for granted that were propped up by that democratic party you think wasn’t functional… take a good look at our current cabinet and kiss them all goodbye..
do you really think the form of a new “revitalized” party is really worth the price we are going to pay?
I can pretty much state with absolute certainty that i won’t live long enough to see the “benefits” of this misguided plan… and so far.. knock on wood.. it looks like i might just survive my cancer and move into that “golden” old age. who knows how long i will yet live.
i have lived long enough to have seen this once before and to have seen what actually occurs in the aftermath of all that enthusiasm…
even the founders of the weather underground have grown past the burn the house down rhetoric and realized that to make progress you need to build on what you have.
the resistance is good.. but it would have been a whole lot better if we had had a lot less to resist.
it’s too bad nobody is listening to people who have actually been there and done that…
another t-shirt isn’t the answer.January 29, 2017 at 7:34 am #872176
JoBParticipantCaptain Dave..
yes.. your facts were untrue. You characterized the women’s march as being organized and led by one person .. who you then singled out and assigned motives to.You really should do some opposition research dude…
January 29, 2017 at 11:16 am #872190
JTBParticipantJoB You still haven’t clarified what you think my strategy is. Instead you are addressing a number of issue stemming from your sense of “burning down the house.” Actually, that more or less what Bannon intends to do, not me.
It seems to me you are saying that even though Democrats failed miserably to protect working people and poor people, going back at least to Bill Clinton, we should be reassured that their hearts were in the right place and rely on them to counter the policies of the GOP and Trump. Not going to happen. It is going to take popular resistance to counter the momentum Trump has seized. As I said, it may be useful to take over the party, but to let those proven to be incompetent set the course is foolhardy.
BTW, the Women’s march was originally proposed on FB by a woman from the Big Island of Hawaii and quickly caught on. Now that’s the sort of resistance I think will be necessary to forge a viable political opposition, one that isn’t focused primarily on holding office.
January 29, 2017 at 8:02 pm #872233
JoBParticipantJTB
Would it surprise you to know that i walked in the marches and movements of the late 60s and early 70s… and that those marches were often spurred by women?
Consider their primary cause.. the ERA. It was never ratified because they could never foment the political will among those who thought there were more important principles to pursue…
So. women march again. I am as with them as i possibly can be without having a body that will allow me to actually march… but i am no longer fooled into thinking that marches and resistance translates into substantive change… that takes political coalitions… something undermined by actual resistance to those you need to work with.
I get that this you are either with us or a tool rhetoric sells but to characterize me as someone who thinks that the democrats had their hearts in the right place and we should simply rely on them reveals either a complete lack of reading comprehension or that you have never actually read my posts at all.
what i think is that politics makes for strange bedfellows and that without those bedfellows you don’t get a whole lot done.
Case in point.. there was a democratic candidate running in this last election.. but hey. .the democrats ignored that vague unidentified “us” .. a group that as it turns out tends to be mainly white and predominantly male… and not democrats at all… but that’s another story…
Well guess what.. trashing the democrats brought you Trump… and completely destroyed any opportunity you had to accomplish what you said were your goals.
sure showed them..
I am very clear on what i think is the only viable strategy for taking back our government ..
we get in bed with those strange bedfellows and elect as many democrats as we can to the house and senate and state government and local governments… and we do it as quickly as we can… because they are the only political group that exists in America today that has the ability to create the kind of voting blocks that are necessary to undo the mess we just made in the last election.And.. jist for giggles.. i am pretty sure i have already said that.
So.. you have choices here… You can keep to the strategy that just brought us Trump or you can bite the oh so nasty tasting bullet and get down the the dirty nitty gritty of politics…
Was that clear enough for you?
I am very angry. Our President just removed the heads of intelligence and the military from our National Security Council.. the group that gets to decide which Americans can be targeted for death without due process.. and replaced him with Steve Bannon.. and you are bitching that the Democrats didn’t get the working people.
Where are your priorities?
January 29, 2017 at 8:41 pm #872250
JTBParticipantJoB I know you’ve been politically engaged for a good part of you life.
I believe we do have a fundamental difference concerning why the Democrats lost the election. I think “they” lost the confidence of the electorate as I outlined above. You can’t ignore all of that; it all happened.
I did actively support Hillary in hopes of preventing Trump’s election. And a big part of that, something I outlined in this Forum and I trust you remember, was my fear about the consequences of bringing it all down as the core Trumpanistas want to do. Reform over destruction. And I’m still disposed that way. This is not the right time in history to be deliberately precipitating a crisis of government or an economic crisis. But I don’t believe for a second that the Democratic Party can be trusted to act in a decisive manner to counter Trump’s orchestrated plan. We may actually need to rely more on Republicans to oppose him.
I am hopeful that a popular opposition will gel to a sufficient degree to in effect take over the Democratic Party, at least in the form of getting rid of the careerists and advancing a radical economic plan. There are a number of progressive economists who have good insights into the economic stagnation plaguing the world economy and worthwhile solutions, but those individuals need a movement that is at least asking the right questions. OWS offered a ray of hope in that it targeted the fundamental issue of income inequality and a systemic problem. Before then, the best the Democrats offered on the matter was lip service and promises to keep Social Security from being privatized. Not good enough. As was demonstrated by the electorate, both those who sat out and those who voted.
But you simply can’t ignore the fact that the Democrats brought the electoral failure on themselves. So now it is indeed time for the nitty gritty of politics.
January 30, 2017 at 12:12 am #872265
captainDaveParticipantJoB: I tried to post some links for you but it looks like my posting are being highly restricted again. It’s difficult to debate when the WSB seems to sensor out alternate opinions.
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