- This topic has 62 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by JoB.
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November 26, 2016 at 6:44 am #866301
redblackParticipanthey, republicans! why is trump interfering in the free market? the arrogant SOB isn’t even president-elect yet.
Trump announced his administration’s talks with Carrier on Twitter, writing that he was “working hard, even on Thanksgiving, trying to get Carrier A.C. Company to stay in the U.S.”
is that the burnt tang of hypocrisy in the air? or is this merely craven politics? surely trump won’t use economic incentives to save those jobs. that would be rather… solyndra!
- This topic was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.
November 26, 2016 at 9:11 am #866312
waynsterParticipantno no not Trump in fact he even has stock in a certain oil pipe line in North Dakota and has said he can run his company and the white house at the same time without conflicts of interest…..Wait until he builds a Trump tower and casino in Cuba now that Fidel Castro has died…… Then again capt Tumper will not be happy red and go into denial mode…..lol
November 26, 2016 at 11:39 am #866319
TanDLParticipantDecember 3, 2016 at 12:40 pm #867060
TuesdayRodgersParticipantOMG !
You are right Mr. redBlack .
He isn’t even President yet and already ” Mess’n “.
He should be play’n golf with OBama.December 3, 2016 at 3:00 pm #867068
anonymeParticipantMost Republican presidents wait a few months before getting us into a war. Trump may be the first to do so before he even takes office.
December 3, 2016 at 4:50 pm #867078
TuesdayRodgersParticipantDamn ” anonyme ”
Here comes that ” Truth ” thing again. Ouch !You mention Republican’s getting US into a War. Did you omit the word “another” ?
Because after pondering and checking those Horribly Nasty and Unfair ” Facts ” concerning ALL those war’s that those Blood Thirsty Republican’s keep getting us into i run into a problem with the Math. maybe your Liberal math can help me out a little bit…?
Just checking on the last 100 years or so and while being kind enough to skip the Civil War I found these Numbers.
– WW1 : President Woodrow Wilson – ( Democrat ) 53,000 US Combat Deaths– WW2 : President Franklin Delano Roosevelt – ( Democrat ) 200,00 US Combat Deaths
and many accuse President Roosevelt of knowing about Pearl Harbor and
allowing that Attack to happen JUST so we could get into the War ?
Oop’s .. That doesn’t sound Good ! Is it True ?– Korea : President Harry S. Truman – ( Democrat ) 33,000 US Combat Casualties
The Korean War which was Started by a Democrat ( Of course ) took a Republican President ( Dwight D. Eisenhower ) to urge the Peace Talks and END THE WAR. Oop’s again huh ?– Vietnam : ” COMBO ” President Kennedy ( Democrat ) sent in the advisors and got it Roll’n
a little bit but it took another popular and Wise ( Democratic President ) President Lyndon Johnson to really get all that Kill’in goin . A very popular war for Liberals. You guys Loved the Hell out of that Vietnam War thing. That’s where you guys learned how to Burn cars so effectively and spit on Soldiers.. Remember ? If not I can send you the Video ?
Hmmm.. So where are we now. ?
Oh.. I hope we aren’t going to bring up that Blood Bath known as the Grenada War so we will skip right over that and go right to:– Desert Storm : President George H.W. Bush ( Republican ) 159 Combat Deaths
Is that the War you mean ? Where the entire World back us and we were surrounded by 60 or so Countries that went in with us ?
I’m still not following you ” anonyme ” So you must be talking about ( 2001 ) and– Afghanistan War : President George W. Bush ( Republican ) 1954+ Combat Deaths
This is the War that OBama said was the ” War we should be concentrating on, Not Iraq ” Of course the same War that Ed Schultz from MSNBC called the ” Just War ” and of course that ALL the democrats voted for. You couldn’t be talking about that one
So, you must be talking about The Iraq War ( 2003 )– Iraq War President George W. Bush ( Republican ) 3.800+ Combat Deaths
This must be the ” War ‘ your talking about. Mistake ? Maybe but there are a few issues such as the FACT that most Democrats voted for the War. For Example Presidential Nominee John Kerry :
John Kerry ( 2004 ) said: “I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.”
Yes, That John Kerry along with almost all other Democrats voted for the Iraq War. Including Hillary ” I am for sale ” Clinton.
But, OBama Campaigned on ” Getting us out of These Wars ” of course including the ” Just ” Afghanistan War as one of the Bush Wars. Pretending that Afghanistan was not called and referred to as a Just War.
The only problem is that OBama took all of our troops out immediately and very irresponsibly which left a vacuum and in stepped ISIS. ( The ” JV Team “..btw )and now
OBama lied and went back on his word and put boots back on the ground and as of today the US has 5,000 Troops in what now can be called ” Obama’s Iraq War “.
I know this Truth thing SUCKS and is very inconvenient but Please ” Anonyme ” explain what Republican Wars are you talking about because when I add up all the US Combat Deaths over the past 100 years the Democrats are winning the score by about 500,000 to very little.
After you take your Liberal goggles off and realize you have No where to go on this argument you can –>> ( Insert personalDecember 4, 2016 at 7:08 am #867134
anonymeParticipantGreat. Another Betty/William has oozed out of the woodwork, complete with the capitalization disease. Are you all really just one ‘person’ with multiple personality disorder? Facts have no place in such discussions, and I don’t engage lunatics. Bye.
December 4, 2016 at 9:45 am #867156
redblackParticipantor we could stick to the topic and discuss why trump is interfering in the free market by giving away tax breaks and incentives to keep carrier from shipping jobs to mexico.
is this republican policy now? because it sounds like something a pro-union democrat would do.
December 4, 2016 at 11:06 am #867165
anonymeParticipantApologies, rb. I have a lot of respect for your well-reasoned and straightforward observations, and did not mean to derail your discussion. Sometimes the temptation is just overwhelming.
December 4, 2016 at 1:48 pm #867188
JanSParticipantahh, but..only part of the work force will stay in the US…half will still move, I understand. And..Carrier gets a big fat financial “gimme”…from the taxpayers…so what is so wonderful about the deal? Am I seeing this all wrong?
December 4, 2016 at 3:37 pm #867206
TuesdayRodgersParticipantTHANK YOU ( anonyme ) !
Yes, it takes a real person of integrity like yourself to admit when they are caught lying that “ Facts have No Place in such discussions “ and the that fact that you see that you indeed lied and have the courage to admit it is … Astounding !
I was a bit disappointed though because I thought we were going to have a little back and forth. ? Especially after you tried to lay me out with what you tried to pawn off as a brilliant and insightful Truth-ism about all of those republican wars. I expected to be put in my place. I really did ! I thought for sure you were going to school me up with more Fact nugget “ Touche’s “ like …
“ Yeah, Democrats were in office and started all of the major and even minor Wars in the 20th Century that killed millions but… What about Panama or Grenada ? We lost Almost 40 guys ! “
But instead I was shocked to see that once you realized that your Un-truths were called out and your National Socialist / Democrat technique of “ saying a Lie enough times people will believe it “ didn’t work you stand up and admit what you did was wrong and that the Democrat rule of “ Facts have NO place in such Discussions “ is not the correct way to go about debates . I was almost in tears.
I feel a bit like a parent when they see their children for the first time realize that they had lied and instead of resorting to personal attacks they admit it like adults. Wow.. Thank you for thatDecember 4, 2016 at 3:57 pm #867209
redblackParticipantanonyme: it’s all good. i understand the urge to swing that proverbial bat.
but i knew it was a pipe dream to expect tuesday or any other “conservative” to stay on topic and try to defend trump’s big-government interference in free markets.
December 4, 2016 at 4:18 pm #867213
TuesdayRodgersParticipantWow.. I love this.
Jan.S and RedBlack you guys just nailed it. Just because Trump is making OBama look like an uncaring, anti-business fool you guys never back down. Now that’s dedication !
But, I have been listening to what you guys have been saying and now that I have educated myself by reading all that wisdom you guys are laying down on everyone on the WS Blog here. I am thinking that I agree with you guys. Can you believe it ?
Yup, I think that Trump was DEAD WRONG about Messing around with that Free Market like he has. Most of the time I feel really bad arguing against Champions of the Free market like ( redblack, Jan S. JoB, etc..) and challenging their continuous and never ending defense of the Free Market but this time I have to agree.
I honestly think you guys are correct and that Trump should have done exactly the same thing that OBama did about keeping those Carrier Jobs in the Country and saving those employee’s livelihood and their families futures . NOTHING !
Yup, Trump reiterating what Obama told Carrier Inc. ” Go ahead and move then.. You’ll be Sorry ” That would have taught Carrier and other companies that want to leave the U.S to escape all those crazy Taxes and regulations in search of Profits.
I think it was shameful for Trump to create and incentive for ANY Evil profit Worshipping Corporation to stay in the US and continue to support US workers and their families simply to make a Profit. Disgusting !
I felt ( redblacks ) emotion when he passionately fought against and criticized Obama for loaning Billions of Dollars to a profit oriented Corporation GM after they lost billions of dollars due to poor management and waste. and and I remember being so moved by ( redblacks ) plea for “ NO MORE ! “
In fact, I get choked up even thinking about it now
Seriously, Who the HELL does Trump think he is taking time to save a pitiful amount of jobs that won’t make a Damn bit of difference in the grand scheme of things by providing tax relief and confidence to Carrier Inc. that he will work towards making the US a business friendly environment ? I doesn’t even make sense ? Trump should have used the Tough Love “ Go ahead and move to Mexico, See if we care “ technique that Obama continuously uses so well from the Golf course.December 4, 2016 at 5:28 pm #867220
JanSParticipantTuesday…first, just STFU about Obama and the damned golf course fake news…it’s irrelevant. And you very well know it. You are NOT that stupid, are you?
Oh, and…Trump owns stock in Carrier…hmmm
and if you say anything that is sarcastic, please give a hint (like <sarcasm>)..otherwise you sound, well, strange…because it doesn’t translate..you know us stoopid libtards – spell it out
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by JanS.
December 4, 2016 at 9:13 pm #867236
captainDaveParticipantJanS: If Trump was wanting to increase the value of his stock in Carrier, would ha not be better off enjoying the higher profits produced from low wages in Mexico? Maybe this is proof that Trump IS NOT working for his personal interest. Please think before you type.
By the way, how do you justify chilling your behind with the fruits of cheap exploited $3 hr labor while advocating that nobody is allowed to work in America unless they can find an employer who can afford to pay $15 hr?
December 5, 2016 at 12:44 am #867258
JanSParticipantexcuse me, the man is going to make money on the deal…a bit illegal, I think. as he , as the president-elect is supposed to divest of all business stuff. And the taxpayers in Ohio get the shaft, and it looks on the outside that Trumplestilskin did a good thing, but really did a good thing for himself.
You ask stupid questions…so sorry Dave. Ya know, you aren’t the only one in the effing world to try and always buy a Made in the US tag. And you know as well as I do how difficult that is. Because we gave it away…for cheap labor…and it is still going on, and will continue to do that. I do not see our newly elected president bringing his clothing manufacturing back to the US from Mexico, from China. Ivanka’s shoes still made in China, and her jewelry, and her strange cosmetic line, too. I promise that after the next 4 years they will still be made overseas. There’s no excuse for that…not by the people who are supposed to be an example, and not seem that they’re just in it for themselves.
And…leave my behind out of the conversation, TYVM
December 5, 2016 at 8:28 am #867276
redblackParticipanttuesday: i agree with trump and steel workers’ local 1999 in indy.
i’m asking why free market conservatives who advocate offshoring jobs for maximum profit and low labor costs aren’t raising hell.
you do see the contradiction here, right?
and yes, dave, we need tariffs on imported goods so that our workers can enjoy higher wages; and so that an AC unit made in the states costs consumers the same as one made in mexico. our workers should not have to compete with foreign workers who can subsist on $3 per hour. that’s a race-to-the-bottom tactic that benefits the owners and screws labor.
¿comprendes?
down with NAFTA.
December 5, 2016 at 9:34 am #867288
JoBParticipantsigh..
Trump’s interest is in the parent company which has defense deals pending…
but hey.. no conflict of interest there…
is there?December 5, 2016 at 10:55 am #867298
redblackParticipanthi, jo. so what is trump’s interest in united technologies keeping carrier’s workers in the u.s.? why would he care? you’d think that he’d want carrier lean and mean.
instead, he just gained the loyalty of union folks in my original home town.
maybe! hopefully they see this “deal” for what it is: a craven political attempt to convince the rubes that he actually cares about their well-being.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.
December 5, 2016 at 10:58 am #867299
T RexParticipantSaving those jobs at Carrier probably also saved other jobs in that industry that do business with Carrier. I do not see that as a bad thing.
I am sure if Obama had saved Carrier it would have been the greatest thing he ever did in his administration. Oh wait…but he didn’t.
Captain Dave, I thank you for your wonderful posts on this blog, I for one think you are a great American. I would love to buy you a cup of coffee one day.
December 5, 2016 at 11:19 am #867304
redblackParticipantT Rex: you’re right. obama didn’t save those jobs. if he had – and i wish he had! – the reaction from the right would have gone something like this:
“why is the government interfering in the free market?! that’s socialism!!!1!11!1!!”
you do see the contradiction here, right?
if you do, i’ll buy you a cup of coffee. dave, too.
December 5, 2016 at 11:34 am #867307
TuesdayRodgersParticipantWait just a moment here ( Jan S.). Buckle that ” Proverbial ” seat belt because here comes more of those nasty, hate filled Conservative Facts again BUT…
The Liberals chastised George W. Bush for playing golf which totaled a now in comparison pathetic ( 24 ) rounds in 8 years. Yes, that was ( 24 ) rounds of Golf in 8 years.
So, here comes the Seat Belt Warning for you.. As of August 7 2016 Obama played his ( 300th ) round of Golf. HOLY CRAP ! not even I thought he played that many but for you ( Jan S. ) to say that our Golf course Presidents obscene amount of time on the Golf course is ” Irrelevant ” is so beyond the realms of even the liberal definition of ridiculous is.. well… Ridiculous !
When it comes to ( redblack ) I actually disagree that tariffs are good and truly Do Not believe that messing with the Free market helps anybody. There is No Way that we will ever be able to compete with the labor costs of any third world countries unless those Hugo Chavez inspired policies that “ Crazy Bernie “ was proposing ever get implemented then maybe, just maybe the U.S. will be able to compete with those $3 / hr. Labor rates. Of course, we will all be on Hugo Chavez diet plan of ” All you can eat ” Radish & Wheat grass buffet so it won’t make a difference anyway. The more I think about it maybe it might work. None of us will be on the hook for any house or car payments because the banks will have collapsed by then. Hmmm Maybe not so bad ?
( Sarcasm ? ) oh wait.. ( Not Sarcasm ? ) wait.. I like radish’s
Trump is trying to convey a sense of leadership to the business world which has solely been lacking. He wants those companies that are thinking of moving out of the US to save in Labor costs to know that at the very least the P.R. hit will offset or seriously damage the profit making advantage. Maybe even a short term HAMMER of 35% might make them think. ? Only in the case of a Company moving out and then trying to sell back to our market those same goods. That is a narrow focus and who knows ?
Obviously, Individual “ deals “ with every company is not going to happen or is it even healthy but appearing to at least GIVE A CRAP rather than tossing out OBama’s inspiring words of “ What are you gonna do, wave a magic wand ? “ from the 9th hole of the Golf course does very nothing. Clown !
But, coming from a President that has never had a real job before or certainly never run a business is anyone surprised ?
Maybe after a tough 18 holes he can catch another baseball game with the “Diamond of the Caribbean” and the 20th Century’s finalists for ” Murder of the Year ” Fidel’s not as talented brother Raul ?December 5, 2016 at 12:44 pm #867321
redblackParticipantor maybe he can play on one of trump’s spectacular courses! we’ll go from an amateur golfer president to a guy who owns the damned links…
did you actually read your own words, tuesday?
you just advocated trade tariffs (short-term 35% hammer) on corporations who have been doing exactly as you described for the past 35 years: u.s. companies offshoring jobs, profits, and taxation, evading our environmental regulations, then selling cheaply-made goods to u.s. markets. what on earth did you think you were voting for every time you decried labor and environmental protections as marxism?
seriously. i think you’re a pinko, and i want some names, comrade.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by redblack.
December 5, 2016 at 2:31 pm #867331
T RexParticipantredblack, I would not have been one of those screaming socialism. Although I did not vote for Obama, I was proud to be a part of history when he was elected and believe it or not, I really wanted him to succeed. But he failed in my opinion as a President. If Hillary would have been elected I would have hoped the same for her. But she was not elected.
I agree that the Republicans would have screamed socialism, of course they would. Which is why I believe Trump was elected.
Is Trump going to do a good job, maybe, maybe not. But can we just give him the chance?
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by T Rex.
December 5, 2016 at 2:51 pm #867335
metrognomeParticipantI wish Trump would ‘convey his leadership’ to me for not moving to Mexico by giving me some of those $7 million in tax credit that outgoing governor Pence coughed up.
I’m not much of an economist and don’t understand the impact of tariffs, etc., but how did a 35% tariff turn into $7 million in tax credits for a company that earned billions in profits the prior year? Maybe Carrier should just buy screws from Mexico as a symbolic gesture to Indiana taxpayers.
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