Apartments with no parking? Are they only going to rent to carless people?

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  • #913228

    Michael Waldo
    Participant

    So, if the city wants more apartments without parking included, should there be a part two law? No rental for you if you own a car.

    #913242

    CarDriver
    Participant

    Amen! Vast majority of people DO have cars. The city pretends it isn’t true-but reality is sitting out by the curb. A lot of claims that people don’t have cars but have yet to see any PROOF of truly carless people.

    #913268

    WSB
    Keymaster

    Test (please ignore, we’re troubleshooting something, thank you)

    #913304

    newnative
    Participant

    I’m a truly carless people. I moved here without a car and briefly belonged to Zipcar but found it too expensive. I had two bikes stolen and until 2 1/2 years ago, only used the bus for leisure (I walked to work). Now I have a monthly Orca pass and bus daily. The complex I live in has quite a few empty spaces in its parking garage and when my partner rents a car he is always able to find street and off-street parking. Our complex also rents out parking spaces and apparently one person is storing 14 cars in our garage.

    #913311

    JoB
    Participant

    when street parking overflows because people with cars but no place to park them or no money to pay for onsite parking park on the street handicapped people can’t park.. and if we can’t park we can’t go.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  JoB.
    #913327

    CarDriver
    Participant

    newnative. If it works for you, great. My point is that there’s not many people like you. My definition of truly carless is that you don’t own a car. Don’t rent a car. Don’t ride with friends/family don’t use a ride share/taxi. I also wonder how many carless people tell family/friends that if they want to visit they can’t come by car. Most people don’t work downtown. I worked in Renton-5AM start. Also was subject to mandatory overtime. Needed to drive. The other issue is evenings/weekends. Long weekends at the ocean, or Lake Chelan or the San Juans aren’t doable by bike or Transit. Surfing the internet or staring at a phone isn’t a leisure activity for most of us

    #913328

    newnative
    Participant

    Well, if you’re going to use a special, made up definition of “truly carless” then I guess you won’t find any, innit? Truly carless is someone who doesn’t own or regularly drive a car. Car sharing and taxis don’t require parking spaces. I don’t have to tell people not to drive to see me because there is always plenty of parking in my neighborhood (Admiral District). Sometimes I ride with people because we are going the same way and why would I let them waste the passenger seat? I have taken the ferry and bus to Poulsbo, the clipper to Victoria and San Juans. You’re right that I don’t do a lot outside of the city limits but that is the shortcomings of our transit system, I would if hiking, trains/transit were available. But what people choose to do wasn’t the topic.

    #913329

    CarDriver
    Participant

    The original post was pointing out that the city’s way of dealing with car’s and traffic-and yes there are serious issues to be discussed is that by providing no parking that magically cars will disappear. The truth is that hasn’t happened. Changing commuting/leisure preferences(I/e cars) needs workable and reliable transportation options and people leading by example-i/e “truly carless”

    #913410

    Michael Waldo
    Participant

    These policies completely ignore the working class folks who need a vehicle to do their jobs. If you are a carpenter, house painter, plumber, landscaper, roofer, house cleaner and so on, you need a vehicle. It is like saying no working class people need to live in Seattle. reducing cars in the city is not a solution to climate change. Not when we have cargo ships belching out exhaust, Seatac airplanes, UPS trucks, the cement plant in Southpark (a major polluter) delivery trucks of all kinds. It is fine you don’t have a car newnative but not everyone can do without. Your smugness and holier then thou attitude really is off putting.

    #913515

    newnative
    Participant

    Wow, Michael Waldo, I reply to someone asking if anyone is “truly carless” and you pick up that I’m smug? No, I’m not. I only replied to the erroneous belief that no one is carless. There are those of us that are. Nowhere do I suggest that everyone can go without, only that I do. I didn’t insult anyone in my posts, so I don’t understand your insults and name-calling.

    #913540

    CarDriver
    Participant

    newnative. The issue is credability. There are commenters on the blog that cheer the city on in squeezing those of us that do want and need car’s. The REALITY is that the city has not provided real world options-we’d use them if there were. What bothers us is people saying we’re the problem, then finding out they also drive cars when it’s convenient for them but saying it’s not ok for us.

    #913603

    Lindsey
    Participant

    I am also carless. We exist! I took my son to daycare on the bus, even.

    #913628

    SoCal562
    Participant

    I’m always wondering how many families ( with more than 1 child) that are carless by choice not because financial circumstances force them to are actually finding more pros than cons to this. Life consists of early meetings to work, visits to the ER (including those for pets), last minute Rx pick-ups, etc. Why are more people and more people associating having a car as a luxury? It’s a necessity for many. People are so unreliable these days, I can’t imagine needing help from someone carless, I’m dead. Getting your kid to daycare on the bus is one thing, your life and his doesn’t depend on it. I’m not up for arguments but you get my point.

    #913629

    SoCal562
    Participant

    I will avoid to live somewhere where I have to pay extra to park my car, especially when it’s not inside a locked garage. I shouldn’t have to pay more a month for my car to “sleep” than to drive.

    #913683

    Lindsey
    Participant

    Yeah, I understand that some people build their lifestyles around having a car. I have two kids, anymore and I’d definitely need a car. I’d probably need a car to have a dog too, maybe. I’m also able-bodied and that matters a ton. What I’m trying to say is yeah, I get your point – that lots of people need cars. I have had many cars over the years when my circumstances were different. What I don’t understand why there are people who believe carless lifestyles are impossible or that carless families and people don’t exist.

    I’ve never needed to go to the ER thank god, but if there was a serious emergency with my child the LAST thing I would want to do is have to wrestle their injured little body into a car seat and frantically drive them to a hospital. That’s what ambulances are for.

    #913687

    Michael Waldo
    Participant

    Lindsey – I don’t believe folks are saying a carless life style is impossible for folks who go with that choice. They are saying it is not possible for them. I literately cannot take a bus to my job from Arbor Heights. Unless I take 3 buses and take 1 1/2 hour to two hours each way. I also wear a knee brace, so walking a long distance is painful.

    #913887

    skeeter
    Participant

    I don’t think there should be a law prohibiting car owners from renting an apartment in a complex with no off-street parking. Street parking is first-come first-served. Whether you live in a house, condo, apartment, are homeless, or just visiting from Bellevue really makes no difference.

    #913921

    JoB
    Participant

    skeeter
    when i moved to my little rental house in Westwood it was rare to see a car parked on the street. A decade later and it is rare not to see several cars parked in front of my house. if it wasn’t for the alley behind the house which has off street parking i would literally be unable to park my car close enough to the house to use it. As a renter i do not qualify for a handicapped parking space in front of my home.
    first come first serve is great as long as you are fit enough to walk however far you have to walk to reach your destination… but if you aren’t.. for whatever reason… the lack of available parking becomes un insurmountable barrier.

    #913922

    JoB
    Participant

    Lindsay..
    i can only assume that you have very good insurance when you state that ambulances are there for all medical emergencies.. or that you have a healthy bank account which always has the money for an unexpected taxi or lyft ride to urgent care…
    unfortunately.. not everyone does.

    #913966

    heartless
    Participant

    JoB,
    Through the years I have known various people who switch from having a car to no car + occasional taxi/uber/lyft rides, and they have all come out way ahead financially.
    Believe it or not, owning a car is expensive! You might be surprised how many for-hire car rides a month you could take and still save money by not owning a car.

    #914000

    JoB
    Participant

    heartless…
    i am not sure what part of the need for disabled parking you don’t understand.. but i have severe fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome… and am still in recovery from a series of operations following a pretty bad cancer scare. To say my energy is limited is an understatement.

    i can’t reliably walk from my front door to the bus stop on the corner… and i live one house off the bus stop corner. once on the bus i may or may not be able to get off at the other end and reach the nearest bench.. if there is a bench. I can’t use the disabled van service because i can’t sit and wait as long as one has after an appointment. if i sit too long i sometimes literally can’t walk at all.

    to go carless i would have to have everything that comes into my house delivered…
    and take lyft/taxi/uber every place i go.

    One day in the not so distant future that will in fact be my reality. My hope is that when that time comes i will live in a small enough community to make that doable.. but right now i don’t.

    i have lived long periods of my life carless and made it work just fine.. but the reality is that there are a whole lot of people just like me who could not function without home care if they weren’t able to drive.

    without my car i would be literally housebound.

    that might work for you.. but it doesn’t for me. and i am not alone.

    the problem with looking at a subject from only one point of view (expenses) is that many times your point of view doesn’t begin to address the needs.. let alone the wants.. of others.

    #914025

    heartless
    Participant

    It’s clear that you didn’t understand my comment. I will try to clarify: as you should be able to tell from the thread, I was responding to your comment to Lindsey. You wrote:
    “Lindsay..
    i can only assume that you have very good insurance when you state that ambulances are there for all medical emergencies.. or that you have a healthy bank account which always has the money for an unexpected taxi or lyft ride to urgent care…
    unfortunately.. not everyone does.”
    In the above quote you make a specific argument about the financial cost of not owning a car. You suggest one needs a “healthy bank account” to be able to afford taxis, etc.
    My point is only about this statement and my point is this: You might be surprised at how much money one can save by not having a car and only using rideshare/taxi services.

    Even taking a taxi or rideshare multiple times a week can still be cheaper than owning a car, and that’s all I’m saying.

    You write that “the problem with looking at a subject from only one point of view (expenses) is that many times your point of view doesn’t begin to address the needs.. let alone the wants.. of others.”

    Sure, and if what you are really saying is just that you WANT to have a car, I’m fine with that! But in earlier comments you brought up the expense of NOT having a car–and that is the point I was taking issue with!

    #914061

    JoB
    Participant

    heartless

    it may surprise you to learn that people who can’t afford a car probably can’t afford the other options you mention either… which was my point.

    And then there are those who work is dependant upon owning a car.

    reducing this to a want question instead of a need question ignores the fact that for a large portion of our population.. our current state of public transportation is worse than inadequate.

    #914067

    22blades
    Participant

    I think the conversation regarding parking requirements for developers is lacking in a comprehensive big picture. Do we want green mass mobility or are we, the city, taking a shot gun approach to zoning laws, mass transit, behavioral engineering, ecological initiatives, growth incentives, or, growth management?

    The reality is that our forefathers squandered a viable mass transit system we had in place for a car oriented society. I would love the trolley system this city had, but, we gave it away and that day has gone. I volunteered for the Monorail Project and had my civic involvement head handed to me on a platter. How do we build an equitable system that addresses a population of diverse & aging people? We are not all 20 somethings with REI mobility capabilities. We are, or are caring for, the wheelchair-bound, the home/income-less, seniors, pre-driving youth…

    I spend an inordinate amount of time in Tokyo without owning or wanting a car. In Seattle, I cannot function without a car (or parking) to care for my elderly loved ones. It’s easy to wear a badge of honor about being car-free or car-mobile. It’s harder to have a balanced conversation for making a good city.

    My two Yen’s worth…

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  22blades.
    #914072

    skeeter
    Participant

    But what is the alternative to “first come first served” for free parking on city streets? I suppose we could have a rule that if your house/apartment/condo was built prior to 2016 you can park free on the street and if your house was built after 2017 you and your guests are not allowed to park on the street. That would certainly force developers to build offstreet parking. Very few people are willing to live in a place with no car parking. It doesn’t seem fair to me, but I’m scratching my head thinking of another alternative.

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