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September 24, 2008 at 2:24 am #588159
RainyDay1235MemberPaulson: I Didn’t Suggest Oversight In The Bailout Plan Because That Would Be ‘Presumptuous’
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/23/paulson-oversight/
However, it is clearly noted in the proposal before Congress:
>>Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
(Full proposal: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/20/AR2008092002376_pf.html)
Excuse me? Nice try. Bush & Cheney are pushing for this to happen immediately of course.
September 24, 2008 at 2:39 am #640861
charlabobParticipantHmmm…would it be presumptuous of him to ask for oversight? Nah, I don’t think that’s what he means.
…Bush & Cheney are pushing for this to happen immediately of course
or, according to them, the world financial systems will crash (not just the US) — therefore, in bushspeak, it will not be their faults. Both “side of the aisle” are suspicious and demand oversight. Perhaps we now know there is a limit and what it is.
This is not the October surprise I expected, but it is a hell of job. I hope people have sense enough to understand where it came from and that it isn’t a bipartisan screwup. Many dems went along; the impetus and idea came from one place and it wasn’t any wing of the DemocratIC party.
I’d be scared to death for all of us if I wasn’t so angry. “I told you so,” doesn’t even feel good. :-(
I’d like to see a triumvirate of Michael Bloomberg, Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates run the program–I believe McCain suggested Mitt Romney as an impartial voice of reason. bzzzzzzzzt.
September 24, 2008 at 7:48 am #640862
inactiveMemberFYI to all –
Cafe Rozella
Conversation Cafe
This Sat @ 2:00 PM
Topic: $$$$ BAILOUT $$$$
Check Whitecenternow.com for details.
September 24, 2008 at 12:44 pm #640863
KenParticipantLinks to help you understand the issue and its history. I am cursed with a good memory so none of this is news to me. I also have a friend (ex WS resident) who is a hedge fund manager who explained the scam in detail about 5 years ago and correctly forcast this as his worst case scenario. Well almost. There are a couple of shoes left to drop.
reposted from an older thread:
The grand unified theory on how we got into this mess.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/21/9322/74248/245/602838
And Swiss bank UBS (VP Phil Gramm) wants a share too.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/22/11402/1601/76/606074
And Hunter uses humor to cut to the heart of the matter
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/22/162342/399/407/606744
September 24, 2008 at 1:11 pm #640864
MagpieParticipantWith or without a bailout, we are on in for a lot of pain. What is happening now is unprecedented in this form. I’m just glad that my financial institution is sound and that they remained connservative throughout this cycle.
It is very likely that we will start seeing interest rates start going up. The credit card companies are going to use the economy as an excuse to raise their punative fees, interest rates, etc and it will put an even larger burden on individuals and families that are already struggling. Congress is looking at a cardholder bill of rights to stop some of the abusive practices, (and would be smart to act on it now) but who knows what is going to happen. This may end up with neighbor helping neighbor, before it is over. I personally, think it will be worse than any of us anticipate…. Just the level of deceit in these bailout companies shocks me. (Though I guess it shouldn’t).
September 24, 2008 at 3:30 pm #640865
JoBParticipanti would agree with Chavez that the hypocrisy displayed here is a fine joke, if this wasn’t my country that is in trouble.
When the first shoe dropped, we checked our financial institution and found that it was sound and well funded, but that they had far more bad mortgage loans than we would have expected. I think that shows what can happen in even conservative institutions when the norm is rampant profit-taking and greed.
If the dollar tanks it won’t do us much good to have them safe and sound though.. and like most of America, the bulk of our retirement is in the market.
thank god social security isn’t.. though that too depends upon the financial health of our nation.. and that isn’t looking so good.
yes, it think it is past time to get to know your neighbors and learn how to plant a victory garden. Those of us who had been planting for fun may be doing so for necessity.
September 24, 2008 at 3:49 pm #640866
walfredoMember“The White House just asked the national debt ceiling be raised another $700 billion, for the proposed financial-sector bailout. If that happens, in 2008 alone, $1.5 trillion will have been added to the national debt: every penny borrowed from your children and their children. Stated in today’s dollars, in 1979 the entire national debt was $1.5 trillion. George W. Bush and Congress have in a single year added an amount equal to the entire national debt one generation ago. And the year’s not over!
And this – yes, this – is now regarded as conservatism!”
September 24, 2008 at 4:10 pm #640867
RainyDay1235MemberCan someone post that great letter about doling out the $700B to actual American to help the economy? I really wanted to read it again…
September 24, 2008 at 5:49 pm #640868
JoBParticipanti don’t think it’s such a good idea to put unbridled power in those guys hands…
i don’t think it’s a great idea even if the next secretary of the treasury is part of a democratic administration.
September 25, 2008 at 4:45 pm #640869
KenParticipantThis is how Bush used the office of the comptroller to shut down state anti predatory lending laws that threatened to stop one root of the real estate credit crash.
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/000770.html
As far as I know, this is the first time the OCC has been used for anything except its mandate to audit national banks.
Bush once again using the federal government as a partisan axe to help his base carry off the treasury while he keeps forging our grandchildren’s name to IOU’s to China.
September 25, 2008 at 11:01 pm #640870
walfredoMemberI found this reassuring:
“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
September 26, 2008 at 11:56 am #640871
KenParticipantIt’s like Deja Vu all over again.
–Yogi Berra
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=186052
September 27, 2008 at 4:41 am #640872
clark5080ParticipantHere is a much better option than a 700 Billion dollar bailout
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/fed_bailout/economic_cleanup_10887.htmlc
September 29, 2008 at 6:12 pm #640873
Tonya42MemberHere’s a word problem that sums up Democrat arithmetic:
The railroad (congress)and their favorite station master (Bill Clinton) fires the engineer and sends the train down the track in 1994.
The driverless train accelerates for 14 years (!)
Along the way reports of an approaching cliff are dismissed by the rail road and revellers in the trains’ club car (Wall Street). When the train finally goes over the cliff, the rail road blames the current station master (G.W. Bush). What’s the solution?
Answer: Give the railroad $700 billion, raise the price of train fares (taxes), rebuild the club car, and vote Obama.
The congressional pigs at the trough had a complete view of Freddie and Fannies antics as they were the overseers. Barney Franks assured us less than a year ago that things were fine. Never mind that Clinton and the Dem scoundrals leaned on both agencies to accept high risk mortgages. I’m not letting Republicans off of the hook either. Most of them sat on the sidelines in this fiasco. The majority of Republicans in congress have been useless RINO’s.
September 29, 2008 at 6:40 pm #640874
Tonya42MemberThe people have known about this issue for years and the Dems have blocked it with all sorts of fake indignancies.. some Reps too for that matter.
But for the most part the Democrats built the bomb that ripped through the markets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=http://ace.mu.nu/
Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis.
You cannot dismiss the validity of this nor can you point the finger anywhere other than where it belongs.
PS – Whoever is quoting the Daily Kos, you are being humourous yes?
September 29, 2008 at 8:13 pm #640875
JiggersMemberBetter run to the bank and take your money because we are headed for a crash soon after today’s no bailout vote….lol
September 29, 2008 at 8:23 pm #640876
TammiWSMemberThis started way before Clinton. This is the result of years of Reaganomics, trickle down nonsense, deregulation, and greed. Dont forget Paulson assured of of the same in April 2007….
“We’ve clearly had a big correction in the housing market. Retail housing was growing for some time at a level that was not sustainable,” Paulson said in a speech to The Committee of 100, a business group in New York promoting better Chinese relations.
“I don’t see (subprime mortgage market troubles) imposing a serious problem. I think it’s going to be largely contained,” he added.
18 months later……here we are. What a mess.
September 29, 2008 at 8:38 pm #640877
charlabobParticipantThank you, Tammi – sometimes it feels as if we live in an alternative universe. I will admit that the Democrats, during the Clinton era, went along with many things that they should have rejected. And Robert Rubin was foist on the country by a dem administration. But this is the planned result of the neoon philosophy to drown government in the bathtub. People forgot they would go down the drain as well.
September 29, 2008 at 8:55 pm #640878
TammiWSMemberDrown government – and then they beg for a $700B bail out bucket!
I’m angry and glad this wasnt passed. Maybe some of these banks need to fail, people need to go bankrupt and we simply get back to basics such as ‘Dont buy it if you cant afford it’, ‘Dont give loans to people who have bad credit’, ‘Dont live beyond your means’…. There’s plenty of blame to go around from the top of govt. to the everyday Joe….That is the market correcting itself, not a bailout.
We, and THEY, all knew none of this was sustainable – just like the dot.com world wasnt sustainable. Google stock priced at over $700??? C’mon…..
September 29, 2008 at 9:17 pm #640879
ZenguyParticipantTammiWS, I think we are all frustrated but allowing a bank to fail will only make the situation worse. Would you want your bank to fail and take all your savings with it? All these institutions are linked together not just in this country, but worldwide.
I am frustrated that the politicians cannot put the good of the country ahead of their own politics for a change.
September 29, 2008 at 9:38 pm #640880
TammiWSMemberI agree. It’s my frustration talking – especially because those of us who follow the rules, got a 30 year fixed rate mortgate with 20% down, pay our bills on time and dont get underwater with credit are getting sucked down with everyone else.
I just want those who contributed to this be held accountable and a bailout to me doesnt send a strong enough message that this behavior has to stop.
September 29, 2008 at 9:50 pm #640881
ZenguyParticipantTotally agree with you Tammi.
Bail them out cuz we have to and then start prosecuting the ones responsible.
September 30, 2008 at 4:09 am #640882
TheHouseMemberI’m glad that someone out there can admit to the fact that the current Freddie and Fannie underlying issues for failure were caused by the Democrats (thank you Tanya42). Although you might want to say that Republicans sat on the sidelines, there were a few that were actively attempting to pass a Bill (see link below), but it stalled in Congress.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190
Many of the Democrats wanted to provide the ability for people that would normally not qualify for loans to receive loans underwritten by Freddie and Fannie. It is true that there was abuse within the S&L institutions, but Freddie and Fannie and the Democrats opened the floodgates.
Since I believe that it is the individuals responsibility, I really don’t blame the Democrats. I blame the individuals that failed to pay their mortgages.
Rather than place blame, I ask you all to look around you. I’m sure you’ve all heard the term “Perception is Reality”. One of our biggest issues right now is that this country is perceived to be in peril. The reality is that the United States is quite healthy. In reality, we have the highest GDP that we’ve ever had, our unemployment is at the highest in 6 years, but it’s only at 6.1% (we had higher rates from 1991-1994 and throughout the entire decade of the 80s), and we’re nowhere near facing the same conditions as we faced during the Great Depression (although many politicians want to make you think it’s that bad).
We really need to calm down and not get our panties in a wad be/c out gas goes up and the price of milk goes up. Rather than thinking about withdrawing all of your money from the bank, now is the best time in the world to invest. It’s a buyers market for stocks and real estate.
Believe that!
September 30, 2008 at 4:58 am #640883
JanSParticipantoh, geez…it’s always the Dems fault…like the Repubs are perfect…ain’t so no matter what Tonya said, dear Mr. House…a lot of this happened when the Repubs were in control of congress. Yeah…let’s deregulate, get gov’t. out of it…free market…let’s see where it’ll go…and look where it got us…Dems are NOT responsible for all the ills in this country…get over it…and that’s just my opinion. There is , in my opinion, no one group in power responsible for this…but believe what you want..’tis a free world (well, not exactly). A little bit of greed fueled this , too. I say don’t reward this with big payoffs to the higher-ups..fire their ass, and have them go flip burgers for minimum wage, let them get a taste of what it’s like to really be screwed.
I do agree, I don’t believe that we’re headed for a depression, and I think that things will adjust themselves downward, and we’ll get back to a more productive economy (at least I hope so)…and I even said to a client this afternoon that if you have money to invest…do it. Don’t they always say to buy low? things are pretty low – lol…
Oh, yeah…and..if the milk prices go up..there’s always mother’s milk ;-)
September 30, 2008 at 5:09 am #640884
mellaw6565MemberHouse – for the first time I agree with one of your posts – although I still trace the origins back farther to Reagonomics and the massive mergers/LBO’s that wreaked havoc then.
But if we’re going to bail anyone out – it’s still cheaper to help those that were victims of unscrupulous business practices.
I don’t believe, as Tonya does, that hell be damned with people who are now overextended and too bad if they lose their homes, etc……There are so many aspects to this problem that we can’t afford to let banks or individuals down. There’s a better middle road.
But as I stated on the other thread – I think the Bush administration is jacking up the seriousness of this crisis to squeeze every last drop they can to shore up their cronies before they leave office. Congress is finally waking up to this I think and hopefully taking a more measured look at what’s truly needed immediately.
Many economists agree that right now, if you have the money, is a good time to invest. Unfortunately, I have to fill my gas tank and pay my mortgage first.
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