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(121 posts)

Ya call that an "investment"?

Started 8 months ago by kootchman
Latest reply from JoB

kootchman
Member Profile

Two months ago. The silly ass left.. SAL... for short. Wants to slap a $250 fine on "unwanted" land filling, yellow pages. Umm ok... I see poster for some creature for sustainable harbor. .. ok there too. But NOW.. I get more crap from the US Postal System then the yellow pages ever dreamed possible. Everyday.. 900,000 postal employees, run over 100,000 carbon belching delivery trucks, burning hundreds of milllions of gallons of fuel every year.. don't forget the tractor trailers and airplanes. What do they deliver? JUNK mail.. destined for the landfill. Tons and tons and tons of it. Sooo unwanted and unneeded is the USPS...it is losing BILLIONS... upon billions. Ready to step up to this plate taxpayer? The internet has killed off 1st class mail. Improving or keeping the USPS is like going out and buying 100,000 saddles for the Pony Express. The telegraph did in the Pony Express,. We know that vehicle traffic is the singular largest polluter of our air, our Puget Sound... but we focus in on the once a year delivery of one phone book. SAL feel good, accomplish nothing rhetoric. If we are going to invest... no more GM's, no more Chryslers, no more concrete roads.. that is old, inefficient technology. Want to be "green"... invest in the finest, highest capacity telephony technology. Make commute to work as archaic as tracking rabbits for dinner. That has substance. In all these storms, hurricanes, ice and snow storms... the number one repetitive cost? replacing downed utility lines... over and over and over again. Invest in trenching... with easy access to fiber optics in waterproof concrete casings... want road maintenance costs lowered? Decrease use. Ahhhh... but the city gets to charge for line use. A revenue source! It might have to cut road and transportation staff... I don't want any more investments to preserve the status quo of 100 year old technology and the workers that maintain it. We should make it a goal to decrease the major polluters... a good first step..? retire USPS... if third class junk mail is your cup of tea? Fine... let independent private businesses deliver it... like my morning paper... if they go bankrupt...I don't have to pay for it. Why are we continually throwing billions into a system (USPS) that is so obsolete it can't meet it's own costs... even with user fees. Either do that .... or charge third class the rates needed to cover the costs... stop subsidizing junk mail... and get on to advancing our economy instead of forever imbedding ourselves into century old infrastructure.. I never want to hear, this is a job for the government. Anyone doubt FedEx or UPS will get a second day letter to virtually anywhere? fact is... USPS contracts out to those very same private companies. This is one that should get off the teat of federal subsidy. We have no shortage of cheaper, faster ways to send information.

Posted 8 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

wow. you want to blame the post office for bulk mailers?

get a grip and do your homework. the courts have repeatedly ruled that the USPS is obligated to carry that crap. people have tried to sue to stop it, so far to no avail.

i agree in spirit: we, the people, shouldn't have to pay to annoy ourselves. but you're going to put a lot of paper spammers out of work if you succeed.

you might want to investigate what the DMA (direct marketing association) has to say on the matter, too. they're particularly hostile to people who try to stop bulk mail. you don't want to be business-hostile, do you, kootch?

by the way, the post office is not only fully funded - unless republicans try to kill it, like they do to every other good thing that our government does - it is also mandated by the constitution.

look it up.

Posted 8 months ago #
austin
Member Profile

It's a good thing certain kinds of people can't refrain from namecalling, it makes it immediately apparent which opinions to disregard outright.

Posted 8 months ago #
WSB
Member Profile

The City Council actually did try to do to junk mail what it did to phone books. As mentioned above, junk mail has a much stronger lobby.

http://westseattleblog.com/2010/01/do-not-mail-registry-seattle-city-council-vote-tomorrow

-Signed, your friendly neighborhood "delivered without trucks or trees" news source

Posted 8 months ago #
dhg
Member Profile

Kootchman: The Far Right Whackos (FRW for short) don't want to shut down the post office, they want to privatize it. In other words, they want to hand it off to friends who will make billions while paying employees minimum wage and no benefits. A small part of the profits will go to the Republican party.

Posted 8 months ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

The single biggest consumer of fossil fuels in the U.S. is our military, which the petroleum industry uses as a free private security force.
---
Your outrage, as usual, is thoroughly misplaced, Kotchy-koo.

Posted 8 months ago #
Klause
Member Profile

You can always request that your local Post Office not deliver junk mail and they are supposed to honor your request. It might take them a few tries before they get it right, but if everybody requested that the PO not deliver junk mail to their homes then the DMA couldn't say Jack.

Posted 8 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

In a way Kootch is right. The post office is a money pit just waiting to fail. It is already a subsidised business with private taxpayer dollars. Otherwise you wouldn't need stamps. The problem is as technology developed with e-mail, internet and more effecting methods of spam(e-mail) coupled with cheaper alternatives to ship bigger items (Fed Ex, UPS) the post office never changed anything. Instead they just raised prices on taxpayers.

So, maybe in some respects getting rid of some expenses at the post office is a good thing. Only in America can a business run itself into debt and not able to survive yet still promise amazing benefits. They should be making adjustments to expenses first if that can't pay the bills. If they have the ability to raise taxes on private citizens without going through the IRS then it is basically an extension of government. Taxing without going through congress.

Posted 8 months ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

Kootchman, as others have pointed out, you can remove yourself from junk mail lists already. Nothing new there.

Secondly, the post office does not receive, nor is it asking for, federal funds. It is not subsidized by the US taxpayer.

What it does need is relief from the requirement imposed by Congress that the USPS must pre-fund retiree medical benefits, a requirement that no other federal agency must meet. (Nor do most private companies) It's another example of politicians creating an impossible situation whereby they mandate a policy that will undermine a program or agency, and then using the results of that policy to say "See, (insert appropriate title here) doesn't work!"

Posted 8 months ago #
lucky chick
Member Profile

Wow. I think all I have to add is: "impressive rant" since I can't be bothered to parse it.
(Yeah, I know, I didn't add anything of value to the conversation, but at least my grammar is correct.)

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

lucky chick... we don't expect you to add much of value... so in that regard, you met expectations. In this forum..given the informality of it, only the snarky look at grammer and spelling. It's a blog... it's not a dissertation. Curious though... why did you bother? Uh, yea redblack... the courts have ruled because the USPS has sued to maintain the monopoly..and who defended the USPS? your government. You are aware that FedEx, UPS have fee restrictions? They MUST charge more than USPS....

Dawson..they burn a pea pot off fuel... but, I am willing to pay for the cost...there is no private alternative to an Abrams main battle tank, or the sweet sound of a Super Cobra on station. And factually you are wrong... both private vehicles AND the domestic airline industry suck uo more fuel than the US Military. I don't know where you get your facts.. "The U.S. military burns more than 10.6 million gallons of gasoline each and every day." compared to: "The largest consumer of gasoline is the United States, which used an average of 386 million US gallons (1.46 gigalitres) of gasoline each day" (2005 data) It would appear the US military consumes 3% of the total daily gas output... USPS delivery vehicles...228,000...run 6 days per week... assuming they use 10 gallons per day (my wild ass guess) is still a hefty waste...and that does NOT cover tractor trailers and air transport..

elikapedia... USPS is of the same ilk as Fannie Mae... a GSE... government sponsored enterprise. Conferred with monopoly powers..and I would prefer FedEx and UPS pay the fuel road, and property taxes..which USPS does not. Fannie Mae and Freddie are also GSE's.... care to guess how much is going to cost us? AmTrak is a GSE... This is my favorite... your mail COULD actually be cheaper...but in order to maintain their price monopoly...FedEx and others have to charge a minimum rate... they can't pass along their efficiencies... they are prohibited from doing so.. "FedEx transports Express, Priority and First Class Mail, and earned postal revenues of $1.373 billion (corrected) in fiscal 2010"... you are forced to pay more to prop up a GSE... that smells like a tax to me...

Posted 8 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

the US postal service isn't meant to be a business any more than our hiway system.
it is a service.. one that is still necessary for those with limited incomes or those without fixed addresses...

and it must be at least somewhat competitive since several major retailers send our packages via USPS..

the best news.. the USPS actually delivers unlike FED EX drivers who run a notice to the front door instead of attempting to deliver the package. I have caught them leaving my gate empty handed too many times :(

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

yes kootch... you have found America's flaw...the USPS. Get rid of mail service and we can RULE the world!!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!

Posted 8 months ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

Kootch, I guess we'll just have to disagree on the semantics. To me, an example of a federal subsidy would be things like essential air service, where airlines are paid with tax dollars to continue to serve a community, or farm subsidies that are paid to farmers not to grow crops. A GSE is a different animal. If you don't use the post office, you don't pay anything for it. It's not subsidized by tax dollars.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

It is meant to be a business... read the mandate from Congress...it is required to generate sufficient revenues as to NOT require federal funds. It is also, not to make a profit. FedEx carries USPS first class mail now. I am sure that if they assumed a new postal class that did not require a signature... they would be delighted to drop it off. Both FedEx and UPS have releases from me..they drop off signature required stuff all the time... AND... the sender can check the box "no signature" required. Bottom line? They can't generate enough revenue to meet their mandate.. Jeez the federal government is doing to USPS just as it did to me.. fund the pension funds, fully, and on time..so we don't have to pick up a busted pension system a la the Pension Guaranty Fund... redblack... god I wish I knew wehre you got your information,... The direct mail industry wants me to pick up their tab for mailing junk? Hell no... I never support a business model that requires federal subsidy... dude I am consistant across the board... the fed should no more support USPS than GM, or Creed ... if you don't have a viable plan, product, or service... you die. And as a constitutional scholar you suck... the constitution "authorizes" the federal government to run a postal and toll road system.. it also authorizes congress to declare, and issue letters of marque and reprisal... it doesn't mean they have to do any of them... it is an authorization...not a mandate to do any of the above.. And DHG?..you don't know Jack.. my regular UPS guy..... FedEx and UPS are HEAVILY unionized companies... very unionized.... very well paid... they are making billions already... efficiently though and not asking Congress to get them a few billions in loans every year to run. for heavens sakes FedEx already carries most of the first class mail for the USPS.. elkipedia... the reason so many businesses use 2 day or priority mail? FedEx and UPS carry it! ..just think how much more expensive it when BOTH fedEx AND USPS take cut? A subsidy is whenever the federal government tries to control prices... grain or mail... and history tells us over and over again... price controls do not work. And if they go broke? I am not obliged to pick up the tab.... I am perfectly fine with union organizing... as long as it is not public employees. I would prefer 10 billion go to public schools... so our kids have a shot at creating the 22nd century ... not tinkering with the obsolete 20th century business models that would, and should die off.... left to you guys... Alexander Graham Bell would be censored, and the Pony Express would ride again.

Posted 8 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

and it occurs to me that that is your fundamental flaw, kootch: whenever you talk about government, the first thing out of your mouth/keyboard is "business."

we're trying to have a society here, and not everything hinges on investors making money. heck, most of things government does or is supposed to do aren't related to money in any way. in fact, i'd wager that most people don't give a rat's hindquarters about business.

our government is there to do many things, and very few of them are expected - let alone required - to make profits for someone. and a lot of us would rather perfect that idea than hand it off to someone who can get rich by breaking it.

so stop conflating paying taxes and fees to government with paying bills to comcast. you are not entitled to value-added service for that money. it's simply the cost of living in a society where we do things together, collectively, when we face challenges.

and now, a quote from the constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

article 1, section 8

Posted 8 months ago #
TDe
Member Profile

Great idea... Let's dump the postal service and put 574,000 more people on the unemployment rolls. Then let's cut unemployment benefits like many of the Republicans want and let private enterprise figure out how to hire more workers to pick up the slack. And no, dammit, we're not going to spend any money training seniors and the disabled how to use the Internet to pay their bills. Let them figure it out themselves. If we do all that, things will be so much better...

Posted 8 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

you missed the point...
my local fed ex driver walks past the guard dogs sign on the gate with a note in their hand.. not a package.
they make no attempt to deliver at all unless i catch them on their way out the gate and demand my package.

my mailman not only brings the package to the porch.. he brings my mail with it.

I get much better service from the post office at competitive rates...

as for it being a business...
aren't you the guy who keeps telling us that business is in the business to make money?

The USPS is a service that was designed to pay for itself until the congress in it's infinite wisdom changed the accounting rules in a blatant attempt to privatize this service.

All of that protect the taxpayer rhetoric isn't consistent with your dump public unions and bust public pensions rant...

and for the final giggle...

"Hell no... I never support a business model that requires federal subsidy.."

so the key word here is requires?
Because i am pretty sure you put gas in your tank
and eat food from federally supported farms
and do business with federally supported banks
and...

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

The accounting rules were changed to make USPS fully fund their pension system. The attempt was to not have the tax payer holding the bag with a grossly underfunded pension liability. I do put gas in my tank. The federal government does not subsidize the oil industry... they do...offer various tax incentives to encourage things like domestic oil production...the very things you call "subsidies"... do I like it... no... The feds LOVE to control the banks system... if they had kept their paws off.... and let good old asset valuations and credit risk determine loans .. well, this whole damn implosion would never have happened. I hardly consider the member banks paying for FDIC insurance a subsidy But it is a government mandate. They have my checking accounts, that's about it... and the mortgage papers. They do loan member banks... but not for free ...banks pay for the privilege... and all of those are required. Federal crop insurance? premiums paid... price supports? perfect...they inflate the cost of food... nope ... they entire crop subsidy, land use allocation, land bank..all federal programs to keep the price and cost of goods high and shielded from supply and demand .holdovers from interventions that never disappear.. the federal land bank was initiated after the great dust bowl...to let land go fallow, and allow cover crops (grass moslty) restore a root system to hold top soil after the ten year drought that precipitated the event... but like all government programs...they never quietly sunset...the go forever and ever...getting bigger and bigger...the land bank was established when the average farms size was less than 200 acres... a far cry from the corporate farming of today..... I would be deeeelighted to see those 100,000 Department of ag employees trimmed by about 85%... and confined to food safety inspections...which they fail miserably at. These are government interventions in the private market...regulations.. I pay em cause I have to... not cause I want to. USPS is still supposed to pay for itself... it is supposed to charge rates that cover its costs... it has failed to do so for 8 of the last ten years... time to dump it. If it can't pay for itself ... why have it? Your FesEx person must hate you... mine leaves biscuits for the dogs...and leaves everything I have given him the release to leave. What are you doing to that poor person?

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

what exactly per gallon do we pay for the federal highway trust? Who is subsidizing who?

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Well rebdlack... of everything the government does is not related to money...what are they doing with all those checks I send every quarter? It;s all about money... this may offend your sensibilities...but... from surplus comes largesse... yea... that is the way it works... and so far...in the history of humankind...no other system has created enough surplus as has capitalism... and while not even near perfect... it does a fair job. The eyes of envy have been with us since the begining... but... the ones "with" have always found ways to outsmart the fingers in the cookie jar folks. In the ebb and flow.... this time the left overreached... and they are going to have to retreat a bit. If the day comes when the cookie takers are in the majority ... it is getting close... simple enough.. the cookie jar gets taken away and hidden in a safer place.

Posted 8 months ago #
2 Much Whine
Member Profile

Kootch, be careful. I've now copied my favorite sentence you have ever written and one of the few we agree upon. "It's a blog... it's not a dissertation." Might come back to bite you one of these days.

Posted 8 months ago #
dawsonct
Member Profile

The U.S. Military is the single largest user of fossil fuels in the world.
Here:
http://www.greenmuze.com/climate/energy/2591-greening-usa-military-.html
and here:
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/can-the-us-military-move-to-renewable-fuels
and here:
http://www.ehow.com/info_8124578_biggest-users-fossil-fuels.html

I could go on, but you obviously know how to use Google because of your knowledge of military equipment. Knowledge I doubt you gained SERVING YOUR COUNTRY.

Posted 8 months ago #
TDe
Member Profile

Quote from 19 above... "The federal government does not subsidize the oil industry..."

Thanks for the hysterical laughter you generated by this statement. I needed a good laugh this morning. Google "Federal Subsidies for Oil Companies." The 92(yes, 92) pages of reference material that comes up begs to differ with you. I'll select just one quote from an article in The Christian Science Monitor, taken from the first page of Google references:

"Finding and tallying federal energy subsidies, however, can be fiendishly difficult. Doug Koplow of the energy-consulting firm Earth Track in Cambridge, Mass., is considered one of the nation’s leading experts on the topic.

He estimates that the US spent between $49 billion and $100 billion on energy subsidies in 2007 – numbers Mr. Koplow says are still accurate if adjusted for inflation. The handouts cover a broad range of activities, from federal loan guarantees and funding for energy research and development to special tax exemptions.

Here is how the subsidies break down by category, adjusted for inflation, according to Koplow.

Oil and gas: $41 billion:"

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0309/Budget-hawks-Does-US-need-to-give-gas-and-oil-companies-41-billion-a-year

Posted 8 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

TDe...which goes to show that length of posts does not equate knowledge of subject posting about :->

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"The feds LOVE to control the banks system... if they had kept their paws off.... and let good old asset valuations and credit risk determine loans .. well, this whole damn implosion would never have happened."

You're kidding I hope, but I doubt it - sad. I guess I can school you on the facts, but like in previous discussions... facts seem to go over your head.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

jj... facts are not your strong suit. When the federal government wants a private company to do something... something it won't do because there is no payback or rational reason ... they give a tax offset... or subsidy. Like... they want to support housing...so you get mortgage interest deduction subsidy... as domestic oil exploration plummeted... balance of trade deficits soared, the feds wanted to direct the activities for R&D...new exploration methods.. ie fracturing..horzontel boring,... it is not a greedy rapacious subsidy... why drill domestically when you can drop a vertical bore hole in "take your pick" middle east country. Big Oil did as they were asked... by the tax code. When you have, as we did ... $22 per barrel oil.. why extract and recover $85 per barrel domestic reserves..? Ain't ya glad they were so successful? North Dakota is ecstatic. See Bakkan Formation... 11 billion barrels..not bad. Marcellus Shale Reserves... the feds are going to recover that subsidy and much much more.... it will put over a trillion dollars in the economy... reduce exchange deficit, enhance national security, add mineral extraction royalties to state and local governments... point being... "we" get the payback.... compare to "solar panels".... subsidies. I say Big Oil spent wisely and well... this was an encouragement subsidy....sure would rather drill there than in deep water gulf reserves. How many billions did the feds take off the per gallon federal highway trust surcharge. We got a payback on this one. we may actually become energy independent because of it... small price to pay.

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"Like... they want to support housing...so you get mortgage interest deduction subsidy..."

that has NOTHING to do with the mortgage debacle this past decade.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

well jj .... I think it does... but.. that is another argument....the point I was trying to make is... there are lots of subsidies out there... mortgage deduction is one of them... as an instrument to induce a financial behavior... it's a pretty common tool of the tax code and congress... big oil was given that subsidy for a reason... to go forth and find new energy sources, and find ways to extract it. You are getting testy, testy.... would you not call a home mortgage deduction a "subsidy"? I am not arguing the merits of it.. Big Oil was perfectly happy and profitable importing crude...much of it from parts of the world that hate us.

Posted 8 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

"I think it does"...yes, once again, it's just your opinion. You can think anything you want...like the earth is flat...it doesn't make you right each and every time, now, does it?

State your beliefs, and stop telling people they're flat out wrong...it's unbecoming.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Well Jan I did state it... as my belief. The actual discussion was... subsidies and government policy .. using the former to induce a behavior from the private sector. Old as dirt strategy. In this case, oil exploration, it actually worked. Diverting revenues and taxable income from private enterprise is hardly "big oil" being rapacious... big congress did it. Diverting private taxable income to mortgage deduction subsidy has been a fact of life since before dirt. Accepted and it was a relatively stable market for over 50 years..restrained and conservative... Jan? BTY who the hell appointed you hall monitor? I take my shots... you are again so highly selective...

"State your beliefs, and stop telling people they're flat out wrong...it's unbecoming". That generally gets a KMA RSVP.... consider it sent. But do continue to post as you see fit. I won't tell you what to do.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Sorta nice to see American land owners getting leases and royalties instead of the House of Saud...nice to see American drilling equipment being exported again to the world, Americans trucking, building pipelines, US States rebuilding roads, schools... and it was a strategic blessing to Europe, particularly central and eastern Europe who now have an option to Soviet geo-energy foreign policy... crude gas and oil payments overseas were the single largest drain on all of us... 3 million barrels per day of oil products... 10.5 million barrels crude imported per day... imported products are refined or distallates.. so figure they cost more... Our total trade deficit 2010..... 293 billion was petroleum... our entire trade deficit with China was 274 billion...with Canada also a large NA producer , the value added refining done in USA refineries by USA workers... our energy independence would add a staggering boost to the US economy... Imagine... shipping LNG to both China and Japan both of which are net importers... and far cleaner than coal ... it's starting to look like those R&D and exploration tax breaks were stunning successes... there are two side to this story... we lead the world in extraction technologies...again! I am thinking TDE...in the medium term... those lost tax revenues went to great use... the total recoup time is less than a decade...and .... uncounted... the lowered consumer prices and freedom from OPEC cartel pricing... short term billions... for long term trillions... good deal. From the global perspective...food grains previously diverted to ethanol...lowers food prices ... a hugh boon to the third world. And we can drop those ethanol subsidies too... the only thing that makes ethanol viable.

Now if you are a solar wind mill purist.. it's the devil incarnate...

Posted 8 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

kootch: every time you post, it becomes more and more obvious that you don't care about your country, and you keep asking what your country can do for you. i mean, i appreciate your military service and all, but that doesn't give you the right to advocate tearing down our government or the things it does. yeah, it's imperfect and it needs improving - but not abolition. love it or leave it, pal. this is the greatest country on earth precisely because of our government, and i think reagan was being a traitor to his country when he talked about the nine most frightening words in the english language.

and you're wrong about it all being about money. those checks you write every quarter are the price of admission to a free and functional society. but again, you are not entitled to value-added service for that money.

government is not a business, nor should it be run like one. for one thing, it operates with far less overhead and zero profits. in fact, it is forbidden from garnering profits. business, on the other hand, is solely about profits. government is about people. living, breathing human beings. all people - not just those who are ambitious, wealthy, able-bodied, or beautiful.

and while capitalism is indeed the de facto economic system in the u.s., it isn't mandated by the constitution.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

no it's not... but nothing else has replaced it .. as efficiently. redblack... i love to pay taxes... there are things the government can do..that private enterprise can't... and I don't expect a ROI... c;mon dude... is there anything more wasteful than national defense? Aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines.. are not done at the county level.. BUT... I want to see the taxes used wisely, prudently, and when programs are done, aren't working.. sunset them. We kept the national heliium reserve in Colordo for over a hundred years.... to keep a stock on hand to fill barrage ballons against tri-winged German Fokkers from strafing our WW 1 trenches at 500 feet and 130 mph...... that is the BS that drives taxpayers nuts..but I am going to take a stab...if it was union workers..you would keep it going. While government is not a business it does require business to create the wealth it needs. When a government model falters..only the taxpayer is the regulator. Nothing would please me more that to see us return to the top 95th percentile in math and basic literacy.. but.. we are slipping... farther and farther behind... those are structural problems.. and taxpayers should be very pissed off we are getting less and less for the bucks we spend. Read the history of Michele Rhee.. trash talking her are the teachers unions..yand she offered hugh salary increases... for merit! You cannot get the structural reforms with NEA standing only for the benefit of the members.. kids and education are not the highest agenda item..civil servants should have one master and one purpose...the taxpaying public getting from their taxes the value they deserve....Taking away the cookie jar? That they respond to. That;s our leverage... In simple terms... How long would you keep a job that cost you 100 more a week to go to than it paid? The USPS continues to lose money... it has been given loan gaurntees, new management, billiions in new equipment, ... it has been thrown a life line for over a decade... and it IS a business... how long you going to keep them on life support? The got killed off by technology... now... there are two union membered replacements that can deliver mail ...they are doing so right now.. USPS doesn't advertise it.. but FedEx carries all their overnight, second day and priority mail... now. Thank them for their service, and close em' up... they are a junk mail delivery service... I don't want to support that. I see I am not the only one...the new campaign from USPS..."we don't use tax dollars"... they are getting heat from a lot more folks than I... what they don;'t tell ya though..is the taxpayer is the co-signer... no mas

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

here ya go redblack.... the President wants 450 billion in stimulus money...this is a few jobs.... this would have paid for the downtown tunnel and the new floating bridge... you are ok with this? This is billions of dollars. while it may not be a business...how many thousands of American taxpayers paid for this little oversight?

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.html

Posted 8 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

you keep talking as though government waste was something new the Obama administration brought to the table... but you know it's not.

You talk as though the waste and fraud perpetrated and institutionalized by the last administration in 8 years can be cleaned out and tightened up in 3...

while our nation deals with the worst economic crisis our country has faced.
In many ways this is worse than what was once called the great depression.

you know that's not realistic.

you would do away with essential public services all in the name of the tide of privatization that has perpetuated much of the wasteful spending you abhor.

come on now.
i get that you are angry. i am angry.

but it's time to work towards viable solutions...
not more of the same policies that already sank the good ship lollipop.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

JoB ... I've been ranting on and on for years.... while jobs fell and life is getting tough... the government has grown 7% in the last three years. The thing is... it NEVER seems to get better... USPS is no longer an essential service...evidenced by the fact they can't even meet their cost structures...let alone be moderately profitable. In fact... I don't believe they should get a pink slip tomorrow... but it's time to plan the exit and transition strategy. Heck... redblack might even be able to get a contract delivering third class junk mail.. I don't expect all government agencies to even be low cost... I can't figure out how teaching autistic kids would be "cost effective or efficient"... it is an essential service though. It's the multi-billion dollar "goofs"... that seem to be taken in stride as "that's ok"... The more centralized we get...the farther and remoter it all becomes...all centrally planned economies eventually collapse... look at our European friends... it's a fair warning... and Germany just walked out of the EU Economic summit... pulling a kootchman... basically telling the rest of Europe .. screw you.... we aren't buying your bonds to prop up your wasteful spending and lack of attention to fiscal discipline... since both they are we are similar sized economies... the parallel is pretty striking... substitute Germany for Tea Party and Euro Bonds for Treasuries.... Germany says we are not going to be the engine for a long, long train of passengers... ya think?

Posted 8 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootchman...

the post office is not supposed to be profitable
it is supposed to deliver the mail at cost
a premise that once worked before a group of people decided they could benefit financially from privatization and started lobbying to enforce strictures that would essentially cripple the post office so much that it could not meet it's mandate
the US mail is still an essential service to both those without internet resources and to those who depend upon the US mail to deliver essential documents.
Spend some time in other countries and you are rapidly reminded how essential the ability to send a letter and expect it's timely delivery is to our way of life.

As for your analogy...

Someone needs to remind the Germans that they had a fair hand in the economic collapse of their neighbors...
before we have to remind them once again of much more:(

Might does not make right regardless of whether we are talking of economic or military might

perhaps this is a more apt analogy than i thought at first glance since the Koch brothers and their buddies who set the tea party agenda have successfully moved the wealth that once sat in the pockets of the middle class into their own are now saying they don't want to fund the economic engine they had a huge hand in crippling...
but hey... privatize your public services for us so we can access what is left of the public resource pool...
Yup.. there are apt comparisons here.

you really are too smart to buy that

Posted 8 months ago #
waynster
Member Profile

Hmmm Kman it was GE and GM now its USPS is there more we should know about. Haven't seen wal mart or the koch bro industries... thats ok they are GOP darlings along with South Carolina. What about the your wall street buddies...forgot they didn't get us in this mess it was the middle class we borrowed to much.... so much hate are you sure your not living in northern Idaho or Northwestern Montana with all the rest government hating zealots....?

Posted 8 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

you're right, kootch. there is a lot of waste and fraud, like your link above. but you and a lot of teabaggers are looking at fundamental, structural institutions like USPS and calling it wasteful because it doesn't operate like fedex.

but I am going to take a stab...if it was union workers..you would keep it going.

no. i would advocate for turning that facility into something useful, possibly expanding it, and putting some people to work.

yeah, the president wants $450 billion in stimulus, and i hope he gets it. he probably won't - unless republicans can find a way to get that money into the hands of their campaign donors instead of the states.

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

The wars in the mid-east have/are costing us 9.7Billion a MONTH, but its the USPS thats holding us down...uh huh -whatever.

There are many that had no problem in rebuilding Iraq, but when it even comes to disaster relief for our own citizens, they just don't give a damn.

I guess we would rather build the iraqi's post office than fund ours.

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"9.7Billion a MONTH," in mid east...

this is an example of when operations are handed off to PRIVATE enterprises to the likes of Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, L3 Titan, CACI, etc.

why do we want to keep on repeating mistakes.

Posted 8 months ago #
metrognome
Member Profile

hey kootch, try putting a 44 cent stamp on a REALLY important piece of mail and drop it in a FedEx or UPS box and see if it gets delivered. The Post Office guarantees next day delivery within a pretty large area if it is picked up by 5 pm ... Fed Ex standard overnight cost is nearly $26 (I used from zip 98136 to zip 98125, well within the PO guarantee area.) And they don't offer quotes for 'packages' in ounces. Plus, they don't deliver on Saturday.

Okay, your turn.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

You certainly can get Saturday Fed Ex delivery...get it all the time. You know why the Post Office offers that wonderful guaranteed service? Here I will let you read the actual comparisons by a business owner who uses a mix of services.

http://mywifequitherjob.com/what-is-the-cheapest-shipping-option-usps-fedex-or-ups/

Some guarantee.... if I HAVE to get it there... FedEx is more reliable. Big deal.. the USPS has a claim process if they miss the deadline...which they do in my experience about 50% of the time...I get $10 back while a critical contract or spare part costing hundred or thousands is delayed..So .. why is it that USPS pays FedEx over a 1.3 Billion a year to ship for them? If it really is critical.. I can track FedEx point by point..updating my customers or clients... ever try intervening and site holding a package with USPS..FedEx can and does. Which goes to what is REALLY important. It is an inefficient, money losing entity.. with a huge duplication of carbon foot print and environmental degradation. And what will happen... here comes the National Helium Reserve all over again... ? Regulator says USPS could use taxpayer subsidy

"...The chairman of the commission that regulates the U.S. Postal Service said Tuesday she supports a taxpayer subsidy for the financially strapped agency to survive. ..."

The axiom... if ya want more a given behavior..subsidize it.

And finally.... this is the Post Office...

http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2011/pr11_wp_workforce_0812.pdf

UNLESS they get the productive tax paying public to subsidize it... they have done the math... their conclusions in my opinion support the case for euthanasia ... painlesss as posssible.... but quick. I thought all the liberals were "green"?... we should be discouraging 3rd class mail as a national policy instead of subsidizing it. Ask a bulk mailer... less than 2% of mailers get a response...sooo it has to be cheap..and hundreds of millions of energy units for pulp, fuel, consumed. etc... cause you have to reach thousands for ine customer...and then...for the hundreds of thousandsI who the bulk mail never appealed to? WE pay for trash removal...and the landfill costs...shifting the bulk mail subsidy further to the taxpayer. Ever consider rolling into you calculations the cost of disposal of bulk mail as part of your USPS cost model? I get plenty of coupons and ads... heck it's the business model of WSB... advertising dollars,,via the net'. If USPS charges the revenues it needs to for it's first class and parcel services..to meet expenses and invest in modernization.... not to worry... they will be far more expensive than FedEX or UPS in short order.

Posted 8 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

and what would Fed Ex or UPS charge me for sending a letter, a card to someone? And will they pick up without me having to ask them? Just askin'....

Posted 8 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

here's Jon Stewart..

http://www.postalreporternews.net/2011/09/08/video-jon-stewart-layoff-220000-postal-workers-what-could-go-wrong-with-that/

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

E mail them, e-card them? If I have to be taxed more so you can send a card... ?! It's an obsolete technology.. it's a wasteful technology, it's an expensive business model. Emily Post can adapt. JanS it only the old farts like us who write letters... kids sure don't..Eventually there is a point where choices have to be made. How much did it cost ya to post today? We are keeping moribund programs alive at the expense of progress.

from a dicussion board

"Correct. UPS and FedEx both carry Priority and Express Mail and also First Class packages. Lots of eBay stuff, I'm sure. Anything that isn't a letter is either flying UPS/FedEx (if a fast service) or going by truck (parcel post, media mail)." Amazingly... grandma and grandpa actually correspond with the critter more.. via the senor center or library.they can archive them and reread them...they can adjust the fonst size t their vision acuity... and get pictures, video... far more than my parents did.

And due to airline security... as to not mix passengers and bombs... any first class mail over 1 lb is sent via FedEx on a non-passenger FedEx plane. It's a junk mail service... it is that irrelevant to a modern economy. It's down to the basics again... subrogate national interests to special interests.. in this case postal worker unions.

Just visited a customer on Friday... most of their professional design work is in the far east... their staff ... verrrry international now... 1) they can't find enough engineers domestically, 2,) they can't find multilingual professionals .... but USPS is looking for 10 billion in bail outs...while we have a high school graduation rate of less than 70 per cent and no mandatory second language instruction... hmmmm ... where do you think ten billion should be spent? For the future of our economy and our national interests? I would rather give 2 year unenployment benefits... but ONLY if you are back in a trade school or contunuing ed. We have a surplus of unskilled labor.

Posted 8 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Our "investment" in Sollyndra? Get out the checkbook.. funny how the Obama fund raiser and bundler.. multiple White House sleepovers... George Kaiser... made the investment through Argonaut Ventures... once they had the federally backed loan guarantees... he hoped to make the killing on the IPO... well gosh.. the patent holder of the Solyndra technology himself said it was too expensive... here ya go read the story..

http://seekingalpha.com/article/211350-lessons-from-solyndra-s-failed-ipo

So another Obamanomics... pay off a donor "whale" ....make his "greenies" happy... and that is as far as they can think it out... the political payoff.. hell with the economics of it... that's a taxpayer program... where we will rail against the reach and greedy... who don't pay their fair share. Making another constituent happy... a trifecta payola! Meanwhile... investors looked at the IPO...the company, the products... and said hell no! and the IPO was pulled. "Ya call THAT an investment?".. Now what was the Seattle Public Schools budget? that was over a half of a billion wasted.. stimulus dollars.. and he is coming after more? Again? At least when BIG OIL is told to invest their own money...for a tax credit.. they come up BIG TIME.... huge discoveries of oil and natural gas...over 150 patents on new boring technologies, new hydraulic concrete technologies... and not ONE DIME of taxpayer liability. Sheeesh...

Posted 8 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"If I have to be taxed more so you can send a card... ?!"

yet we are paying so corporations don't have to pay any taxes and also receive subsidies. Again the average joe is left out in the cold, higher mailing rates, etc. in your tiresome rants.

again, if we weren't in the mid-east spending billions monthly, we can pay for services that help the average joe, small businesses... but instead of asking big business to pull up the slack... it's always the middle class being attacked.

Most small businesses rely on the USPS, but your idea is for already businesses with limited resources to pay for higher rates via fedex.

As well as putting thousands of workers out of work, you also want to hurt the backbone of our work force, small businesses - all just to bow down to more big corporations.

No thanks.

Posted 8 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

yeah, K-man...and eCard is soooo personal..

you didn't answer my question. I want specifics. What will they charge me to come get a letter automatically, 6 days a week, from where I live. USPS does this now. I want to know what Fed-Ex, etc., would cost, since you're so high on them.

I live in the real world. It does not involve everyone being efficient in computer technology. Some things still move the old fashioned way.

Posted 8 months ago #

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